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Phil LaMarche-2

LDG

This was LDG's response to my email: Short sighted!

The Elecraft market is very small compared to the rest of the HF market.
Yes, it is big for the kit market, but still very little in caparison to the
entire HF radio market.

Most of the big manufacturers sell more of one radio model than all of the
Elecraft radios ever sold (combining all models).

Dwayne Kincaid
LDG

Philip LaMarche

LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
[hidden email]
www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com <http://www.lamarcheenterprises.com/>

727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell

www.w9dvm.com <http://www.w9dvm.com/>

K3 #1605

CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM

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M0XDF

Re: LDG

Foot with your feet (or wallet :-)
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174

It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's
required."
- Winston Churchill

On 16 Jun 2010, at 20:20, Phil LaMarche wrote:

> This was LDG's response to my email: Short sighted!
>
> The Elecraft market is very small compared to the rest of the HF market.
> Yes, it is big for the kit market, but still very little in caparison to the
> entire HF radio market.
>
> Most of the big manufacturers sell more of one radio model than all of the
> Elecraft radios ever sold (combining all models).
>
> Dwayne Kincaid
> LDG

wa4fom

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Phil LaMarche-2

Definitely short-sighted. This position will change as more hams wise up
and
realize how this little upstart company makes rigs that stomp theirs flat
at a
fraction of the cost. I'm kicking myself for wasting my money thinking
that an
Icom 7700 was better than the K2, let alone the K3. And most of us would
die
of old age if we waited for a support response from the Big Three.
Elecraft
tries harder, and it shows!

Elecraft: it doesn't matter if it's a K1, K2, or a K3, just as long as it's
a "K".
Accept no substitutes.

72 / 73,

Bob WA4FOM

In a message dated 6/16/2010 3:21:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

This was LDG's response to my email: Short sighted!

The Elecraft market is very small compared to the rest of the HF market.
Yes, it is big for the kit market, but still very little in caparison to
the
entire HF radio market.

Most of the big manufacturers sell more of one radio model than all of the
Elecraft radios ever sold (combining all models).

Dwayne Kincaid
LDG

Philip LaMarche

LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
[hidden email]
www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com <http://www.lamarcheenterprises.com/>

727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell

www.w9dvm.com <http://www.w9dvm.com/>

K3 #1605

CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Phil LaMarche-2

> Most of the big manufacturers sell more of one radio model than
> all of the Elecraft radios ever sold (combining all models).

You could not prove that from my experience. Either Elecraft
owners are more likely to buy a microHAM interface (even though
the K3 has built-in transformer isolated line in/out jacks) than
owners of other transceivers or Elecraft is selling more rigs in
the current market conditions than other manufacturers.

The one thing I can say about LDG, they are more likely to
sell "down market" (owners of toys like the FT-817/857/897,
IC-706/7000, TS-480) than they are to sell "up market" (the
IC-7600, FT-2000/5000, K3) so the NIH syndrome may be at play.

73,

... Joe Subich, W4TV
microHAM America, LLC.
http://www.microHAM-USA.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM

On 6/16/2010 3:20 PM, Phil LaMarche wrote:

> This was LDG's response to my email: Short sighted!
>
> The Elecraft market is very small compared to the rest of the HF
> market. Yes, it is big for the kit market, but still very little in
> caparison to the entire HF radio market.
>
> Most of the big manufacturers sell more of one radio model than all
> of the Elecraft radios ever sold (combining all models).
>
> Dwayne Kincaid LDG
>
>
> Philip LaMarche
>
> LaMarche Enterprises, Inc [hidden email]
> www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com<http://www.lamarcheenterprises.com/>
>
> 727-944-3226 727-937-8834 Fax 727-510-5038 Cell
>
> www.w9dvm.com<http://www.w9dvm.com/>
>
> K3 #1605
>
> CCA 98-00827 CRA 1701 W9DVM
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Rick Prather-2

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Phil LaMarche-2

When I got my K3 I had an LDG AT-200 that I had to use with my previous radio on some bands. After comparing the K3 ATU to the AT-200 I found the K3 had a much wider range and didn't sound like something fell down the stairs when tuning!

I put the LDG on the block and cleared more space on my desk.

Now, I have a wider range tuner and I don't wake up my wife when I tune 80M and have a much nicer, integrated system.

Now I am really glad I sold the LDG!

Rick
K6LE

On 6/16/2010, at 12:20 , Phil LaMarche wrote:

Rick Prather-2

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Phil LaMarche-2

The more I think about the silly response that you got from LDG I begin to realize why they don't have much regard for Elecraft as a market for their products.

When you realize that most "off-shore" rigs have built-in tuners that will rarely handle more than 3:1 SWR they are a good market for them. But, the built in Elecraft tuners will usually handle up to at least 10:1 and in fact, in my experience, a higher mis-match than an LDG tuner it makes Elecraft users a pretty poor pool of perspective customers.

Consequently, looking at their sales over the years they probably wind up with a pretty distorted view of the market share.

Rick
K6LE

On 6/16/2010, at 12:20 , Phil LaMarche wrote:

Jack Brabham KZ5A

Re: LDG

Rick,

Not withstanding a rather poorly worded response, LDG's comment makes pretty
good sense.

The K3 doesn't support external auto-tuners, it has no hardware handshake
protocol, such as Yaesu AT-300 or Icom AH-4 protocol.

So there is nothing for LDG to support.

There are many reasons to run an external auto tuner rather than an internal
tuner other than tuning range. For instance, if you have a no-tune amp and
an external auto-tuner capable of handling the amp, you don't need the
internal tuner in the transceiver. In fact it's rather a nuisance since it
could complicate communications between the high power external tuner and
the rig, and at best be a waste of money.

I see this as a functional short-coming in a high end transceiver or really
any transceiver. I think there is a plan to implement Yaesu AT-300
external auto-tuner handshake protocol in the K3 but I don't know when.

73 Jack KZ5A

K3 #4165

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rick Prather
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:48 PM
To: Phil LaMarche
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG

The more I think about the silly response that you got from LDG I begin to
realize why they don't have much regard for Elecraft as a market for their
products.

When you realize that most "off-shore" rigs have built-in tuners that will
rarely handle more than 3:1 SWR they are a good market for them. But, the
built in Elecraft tuners will usually handle up to at least 10:1 and in
fact, in my experience, a higher mis-match than an LDG tuner it makes
Elecraft users a pretty poor pool of perspective customers.

Consequently, looking at their sales over the years they probably wind up
with a pretty distorted view of the market share.

Rick
K6LE

On 6/16/2010, at 12:20 , Phil LaMarche wrote:

> This was LDG's response to my email: Short sighted!
>
> The Elecraft market is very small compared to the rest of the HF market.
> Yes, it is big for the kit market, but still very little in caparison to
the

> entire HF radio market.
>
> Most of the big manufacturers sell more of one radio model than all of the
> Elecraft radios ever sold (combining all models).
>
> Dwayne Kincaid
> LDG
>
>
> Philip LaMarche

Bill K9YEQ

Re: LDG

I hesitate to add this reply: I have had the original LDG tuner for QRP...
I forget which model. I had to replace the firmware chip and then things
were better. Then I changed Qrp rigs but then the tuner didn't work so
well. I upgrade and sold that unit... it didn't match in the same
circumstances. I gave up. I tried several LDG units without success. I
don't own any now. I have done SGC and similar result. Not much luck. I
have better success with MFJ... can you believe that? The internal units in
Elecraft units are superior to all. Cable lengths, antennas and all the
rest of the stuff we deal with I like the Elecraft tuners. I am not happy
they haven't delved into this market more with heavier duty stuff, but then
I have what I need for now.

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 and KX1 field tester, K3 and modules
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jack Brabham
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:05 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG

Rick,

Not withstanding a rather poorly worded response, LDG's comment makes pretty
good sense.

The K3 doesn't support external auto-tuners, it has no hardware handshake
protocol, such as Yaesu AT-300 or Icom AH-4 protocol.

So there is nothing for LDG to support.

There are many reasons to run an external auto tuner rather than an internal
tuner other than tuning range. For instance, if you have a no-tune amp and
an external auto-tuner capable of handling the amp, you don't need the
internal tuner in the transceiver. In fact it's rather a nuisance since it
could complicate communications between the high power external tuner and
the rig, and at best be a waste of money.

I see this as a functional short-coming in a high end transceiver or really
any transceiver. I think there is a plan to implement Yaesu AT-300
external auto-tuner handshake protocol in the K3 but I don't know when.

73 Jack KZ5A

K3 #4165

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rick Prather
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:48 PM
To: Phil LaMarche
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG

The more I think about the silly response that you got from LDG I begin to
realize why they don't have much regard for Elecraft as a market for their
products.

When you realize that most "off-shore" rigs have built-in tuners that will
rarely handle more than 3:1 SWR they are a good market for them. But, the
built in Elecraft tuners will usually handle up to at least 10:1 and in
fact, in my experience, a higher mis-match than an LDG tuner it makes
Elecraft users a pretty poor pool of perspective customers.

Consequently, looking at their sales over the years they probably wind up
with a pretty distorted view of the market share.

Rick
K6LE

On 6/16/2010, at 12:20 , Phil LaMarche wrote:

> This was LDG's response to my email: Short sighted!
>
> The Elecraft market is very small compared to the rest of the HF market.
> Yes, it is big for the kit market, but still very little in caparison to
the

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Bob Naumann W5OV

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Phil LaMarche-2

For a moment, consider that what the LDG rep says may be true.

I suspect that it is, given the incredible advertising & promotional budgets
that Icom and Yaesu apparently have from sales of their products.

While Elecraft is clearly doing well and they're growing, it is also clear
that these long-standing manufacturers (I,Y) are selling lots more radios. A
quick Internet search shows that it is estimated that Icom USA (Note: This
is USA only) has sales revenues on a yearly basis of between $50 million and
$100 million. Then, add whatever Icom is doing in the rest of the world, and
you begin to get the picture of how big these companies are in comparison.

What this tells us is that while us K3 types are devoted and loyal, we're
just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur market compared to the
"big two". (Kenwood doesn't count until they come out with a real radio -
then it once again may be the 'big 3').

73,

W5OV

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil LaMarche
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:20 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] LDG

This was LDG's response to my email: Short sighted!

The Elecraft market is very small compared to the rest of the HF market.
Yes, it is big for the kit market, but still very little in caparison to the
entire HF radio market.

Most of the big manufacturers sell more of one radio model than all of the
Elecraft radios ever sold (combining all models).

Dwayne Kincaid
LDG

Philip LaMarche

LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
[hidden email]
www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com <http://www.lamarcheenterprises.com/>

727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell

www.w9dvm.com <http://www.w9dvm.com/>

K3 #1605

CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM

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MontyS

Re: LDG

After looking at the specs for the new LDG 600 watt tuner and their existing
KW tuner, I bought the KW model for my Ameritron ALS-600.

I need it to tune my 80 meter open-wire-fed dipole antenna on 80, 75, 60,
40, and 30 meters. I also have a hexagonal beam connected as antenna 2, but
"all of a sudden" switching from my former MFJ tuner to the LDG has lowered
the SWR on the hexagonal beam, so no tuning is needed.

While quirky at times, the tuner does a good job. Once in a while it wants
to retune on a previous frequency - I go a few khz up and force a memory
recall and all is good. I initially tuned up on every 25 khz between 3.5
and 4 mhz, 7.0 and 7.3 mhz.

My biggest wish is that the tuner would always fold the K3's power setting
back to 30 watts when tuning is needed.

Monty K2DLJ

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Lu Romero - W4LT

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Phil LaMarche-2

I will agree with the below email.

I have a Ameritron ALS600 and an MFJ 998 autotuner. I
bought this combo for use with my former TS850. When I
purchased the K3, I continued to use the tuner, albeit with
no "rig control", as the tuner was connected to the TS850's
"tune" button with a home made interface cable (which cost
me $2, not the $60 that MFJ asks for the same thing).

To tune when using the amp and the K3, I simply press and
hold the XMIT button, after setting my tune power to 10
watts. The amp then makes about 40 watts and the tuner auto
tunes. Pressing XMIT again concludes the tune cycle and
away I go. I have it plugged into my secondary TS570D and
it works with the tune button there like it did with the
'850. I just implemented a $15 Radio Shack Video Switch to
switch Foot Switch, Keyer paddles and Amp Trigger between
the rigs. Works perfectly (tho I drool over the new
Microham SO2R mini box!). The amp will eventually
bandswitch using some Unified Microsystems decoders, but
this is a future "enhancement" when I have time.

The first '998 I received had a bad relay. HRO immediately
sent me a new one, which then "burned in" powered on for
three days with no issues. It has survived unscathed since
then through many contests.

I originally thought I would miss the "tune button on the
radio" functionality, but with my somewhat resonant antennas
(a "Carolina Windom" on 80/40 and WARC bands and an A3S on
20/15/10) I dont miss the feature. Just make sure and
"preset" the MFJ by doing a tune cycle every 10kHz on all
the bands I operate on and let it make noise for a while.
Next time I operate there, it remembers the settings and if
your antennas have not changed, the settings just take less
than a second and one "clack" of the relays.

Frankly, I am very pleased with the (knock on wood)
reliability and performance of the MFJ998. It has been rock
solid. I had a '993 before it and it too was rock solid. I
had an LDG AT1000 that was horrible, so YMMV. Best MFJ
devices I have ever owned.

I will look into the new Elecraft autotuner in the P3 box.
If it implements Kenwood protocol (for my backup rig's use)
I may look into it, however, for the cost, the '998 is
pretty hard to beat for what you get and how it works!
Yeah, its kind of ugly, but it does work well.

-lu-w4lt-

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:32:38 -0500
From: "Bill K9YEQ" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG
To: "'Jack Brabham'" <[hidden email]>,
<[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I hesitate to add this reply: I have had the original LDG
tuner for QRP...
I forget which model. I had to replace the firmware chip and
then things
were better. Then I changed Qrp rigs but then the tuner
didn't work so
well. I upgrade and sold that unit... it didn't match in
the same
circumstances. I gave up. I tried several LDG units
without success. I
don't own any now. I have done SGC and similar result. Not
much luck. I
have better success with MFJ... can you believe that? The
internal units in
Elecraft units are superior to all. Cable lengths, antennas
and all the
rest of the stuff we deal with I like the Elecraft tuners.
I am not happy
they haven't delved into this market more with heavier duty
stuff, but then
I have what I need for now.

______________________________________________________________
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Don Ehrlich

Re: LDG AND MFJ998

I'll add my endorsement of the MFJ998. Mine is located remotely in my
garden shed so I never actually see it or hear it but it works as
advertised.
I swallowed hard before buying it but so far ( 2 months) it has not
disappointed. I treat my system gently, rarely running over 500 watts from
my THP HL-1.5 amp.

Don K7FJ

>I will agree with the below email.
>
> I have a Ameritron ALS600 and an MFJ 998 autotuner. I
> bought this combo for use with my former TS850. When I
> purchased the K3, I continued to use the tuner, albeit with
> no "rig control", as the tuner was connected to the TS850's
> "tune" button with a home made interface cable (which cost
> me $2, not the $60 that MFJ asks for the same thing).
>
> To tune when using the amp and the K3, I simply press and
> hold the XMIT button, after setting my tune power to 10
> watts. The amp then makes about 40 watts and the tuner auto
> tunes. Pressing XMIT again concludes the tune cycle and
> away I go. I have it plugged into my secondary TS570D and
> it works with the tune button there like it did with the
> '850. I just implemented a $15 Radio Shack Video Switch to
> switch Foot Switch, Keyer paddles and Amp Trigger between
> the rigs. Works perfectly (tho I drool over the new
> Microham SO2R mini box!). The amp will eventually
> bandswitch using some Unified Microsystems decoders, but
> this is a future "enhancement" when I have time.
>
> The first '998 I received had a bad relay. HRO immediately
> sent me a new one, which then "burned in" powered on for
> three days with no issues. It has survived unscathed since
> then through many contests.
>
> I originally thought I would miss the "tune button on the
> radio" functionality, but with my somewhat resonant antennas
> (a "Carolina Windom" on 80/40 and WARC bands and an A3S on
> 20/15/10) I dont miss the feature. Just make sure and
> "preset" the MFJ by doing a tune cycle every 10kHz on all
> the bands I operate on and let it make noise for a while.
> Next time I operate there, it remembers the settings and if
> your antennas have not changed, the settings just take less
> than a second and one "clack" of the relays.
>
> Frankly, I am very pleased with the (knock on wood)
> reliability and performance of the MFJ998. It has been rock
> solid. I had a '993 before it and it too was rock solid. I
> had an LDG AT1000 that was horrible, so YMMV. Best MFJ
> devices I have ever owned.
>
> I will look into the new Elecraft autotuner in the P3 box.
> If it implements Kenwood protocol (for my backup rig's use)
> I may look into it, however, for the cost, the '998 is
> pretty hard to beat for what you get and how it works!
> Yeah, its kind of ugly, but it does work well.
>
> -lu-w4lt-
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:32:38 -0500
> From: "Bill K9YEQ" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG
> To: "'Jack Brabham'" <[hidden email]>,
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I hesitate to add this reply: I have had the original LDG
> tuner for QRP...
> I forget which model. I had to replace the firmware chip and
> then things
> were better. Then I changed Qrp rigs but then the tuner
> didn't work so
> well. I upgrade and sold that unit... it didn't match in
> the same
> circumstances. I gave up. I tried several LDG units
> without success. I
> don't own any now. I have done SGC and similar result. Not
> much luck. I
> have better success with MFJ... can you believe that? The
> internal units in
> Elecraft units are superior to all. Cable lengths, antennas
> and all the
> rest of the stuff we deal with I like the Elecraft tuners.
> I am not happy
> they haven't delved into this market more with heavier duty
> stuff, but then
> I have what I need for now.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Edward R Cole

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Phil LaMarche-2

First off my K3/10 is what most consider QRP. I use a used MFJ-945E
tuner on 80-6m (also used when I ran my FT-847 on HF). Supposedly
rated to 300w (?) but I do not have anything that runs that high built.

But, mainly, I want to respond to the "K3 types are devoted and
loyal, we're just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur
market" statement. Really? Then why do I run into all these K3
owners on the many e-mail reflectors, I inhabit? I can say the K3 is
very well though of and gaining popularity with the VHF+, EME, and
microwave crowd! To say they are in the lead for ultimate
weak-signal operations, and the K3 is considered one of the best (if
not the best) for that.

and that is why I own one.

73, Ed - KL7uW
"hint uW = microwave"

------------------------------

Message: 43
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 08:14:31 -0500
From: "Bob Naumann" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <013701cb0e1f$05dd5f00$11981d00$@COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

For a moment, consider that what the LDG rep says may be true.

I suspect that it is, given the incredible advertising & promotional budgets
that Icom and Yaesu apparently have from sales of their products.

While Elecraft is clearly doing well and they're growing, it is also clear
that these long-standing manufacturers (I,Y) are selling lots more radios. A
quick Internet search shows that it is estimated that Icom USA (Note: This
is USA only) has sales revenues on a yearly basis of between $50 million and
$100 million. Then, add whatever Icom is doing in the rest of the world, and
you begin to get the picture of how big these companies are in comparison.

What this tells us is that while us K3 types are devoted and loyal, we're
just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur market compared to the
"big two". (Kenwood doesn't count until they come out with a real radio -
then it once again may be the 'big 3').

73,

W5OV

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================

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Bob Naumann W5OV

Re: LDG

You can't argue with the numbers. And while Eric and company would like to
be a $100 million company, I think they have some way to go to reach that
level.

The reason you run into others with the K3 is that you are here in the
U.S. and many of those folks are like-minded with you and I, looking for
the best performing radio available. Remember, there are a lot of people
who are not even aware of the K3 and only consider I/Y/K radios.

None of what I said in any way should be construed to be negative about
the K3 - it's just that the number of them sold in no way compares to what
Icom and Yaesu (and Kenwood) sell world-wide. $100 million in K3 terms =
about 25,000 of them annually. We all know that there are not even close
to 25,000 K3's out there.

As further evidence of my personal perspective, my K3 occupies the spot
where my 756Pro3 used to be and I have no regrets. In fact, I just used it
for the first time on 6m last weekend in the VHF test and it worked very
well - even without the optional preamp on 6m.

73,

Bob W5OV

> First off my K3/10 is what most consider QRP. I use a used MFJ-945E
> tuner on 80-6m (also used when I ran my FT-847 on HF). Supposedly
> rated to 300w (?) but I do not have anything that runs that high built.
>
> But, mainly, I want to respond to the "K3 types are devoted and
> loyal, we're just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur
> market" statement. Really? Then why do I run into all these K3
> owners on the many e-mail reflectors, I inhabit? I can say the K3 is
> very well though of and gaining popularity with the VHF+, EME, and
> microwave crowd! To say they are in the lead for ultimate
> weak-signal operations, and the K3 is considered one of the best (if
> not the best) for that.
>
> and that is why I own one.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7uW
> "hint uW = microwave"
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 43
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 08:14:31 -0500
> From: "Bob Naumann" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <013701cb0e1f$05dd5f00$11981d00$@COM>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> For a moment, consider that what the LDG rep says may be true.
>
> I suspect that it is, given the incredible advertising & promotional
> budgets
> that Icom and Yaesu apparently have from sales of their products.
>
> While Elecraft is clearly doing well and they're growing, it is also clear
> that these long-standing manufacturers (I,Y) are selling lots more radios.
> A
> quick Internet search shows that it is estimated that Icom USA (Note: This
> is USA only) has sales revenues on a yearly basis of between $50 million
> and
> $100 million. Then, add whatever Icom is doing in the rest of the world,
> and
> you begin to get the picture of how big these companies are in comparison.
>
> What this tells us is that while us K3 types are devoted and loyal, we're
> just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur market compared to the
> "big two". (Kenwood doesn't count until they come out with a real radio -
> then it once again may be the 'big 3').
>
> 73,
>
> W5OV
>
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> ======================================
> BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
> EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010
> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> ======================================
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Brett Howard

Re: LDG

Actually the K3 can sell a LOT less than 100Million and be on par with
the number of IKY's sold. While Elecraft is a Ham Radio only
organization IKY make a lot of money selling communications products
to completely unrelated sectors.

~Brett

On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 12:32 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can't argue with the numbers. And while Eric and company would like to
> be a $100 million company, I think they have some way to go to reach that
> level.
>
> The reason you run into others with the K3 is that you are here in the
> U.S. and many of those folks are like-minded with you and I, looking for
> the best performing radio available. Remember, there are a lot of people
> who are not even aware of the K3 and only consider I/Y/K radios.
>
> None of what I said in any way should be construed to be negative about
> the K3 - it's just that the number of them sold in no way compares to what
> Icom and Yaesu (and Kenwood) sell world-wide. $100 million in K3 terms =
> about 25,000 of them annually. We all know that there are not even close
> to 25,000 K3's out there.
>
> As further evidence of my personal perspective, my K3 occupies the spot
> where my 756Pro3 used to be and I have no regrets. In fact, I just used it
> for the first time on 6m last weekend in the VHF test and it worked very
> well - even without the optional preamp on 6m.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
>> First off my K3/10 is what most consider QRP. I use a used MFJ-945E
>> tuner on 80-6m (also used when I ran my FT-847 on HF). Supposedly
>> rated to 300w (?) but I do not have anything that runs that high built.
>>
>> But, mainly, I want to respond to the "K3 types are devoted and
>> loyal, we're just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur
>> market" statement. Really? Then why do I run into all these K3
>> owners on the many e-mail reflectors, I inhabit? I can say the K3 is
>> very well though of and gaining popularity with the VHF+, EME, and
>> microwave crowd! To say they are in the lead for ultimate
>> weak-signal operations, and the K3 is considered one of the best (if
>> not the best) for that.
>>
>> and that is why I own one.
>>
>> 73, Ed - KL7uW
>> "hint uW = microwave"
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 43
>> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 08:14:31 -0500
>> From: "Bob Naumann" <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Message-ID: <013701cb0e1f$05dd5f00$11981d00$@COM>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> For a moment, consider that what the LDG rep says may be true.
>>
>> I suspect that it is, given the incredible advertising & promotional
>> budgets
>> that Icom and Yaesu apparently have from sales of their products.
>>
>> While Elecraft is clearly doing well and they're growing, it is also clear
>> that these long-standing manufacturers (I,Y) are selling lots more radios.
>> A
>> quick Internet search shows that it is estimated that Icom USA (Note: This
>> is USA only) has sales revenues on a yearly basis of between $50 million
>> and
>> $100 million. Then, add whatever Icom is doing in the rest of the world,
>> and
>> you begin to get the picture of how big these companies are in comparison.
>>
>> What this tells us is that while us K3 types are devoted and loyal, we're
>> just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur market compared to the
>> "big two". (Kenwood doesn't count until they come out with a real radio -
>> then it once again may be the 'big 3').
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> W5OV
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
>> ======================================
>> BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
>> EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010
>> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
>> ======================================
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Bill K9YEQ

Re: LDG AND MFJ998

In reply to this post by Don Ehrlich

I also have one and run 1.5 kw without an issue.

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Ehrlich [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:53 AM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] LDG AND MFJ998

I'll add my endorsement of the MFJ998. Mine is located remotely in my
garden shed so I never actually see it or hear it but it works as
advertised.
I swallowed hard before buying it but so far ( 2 months) it has not
disappointed. I treat my system gently, rarely running over 500 watts from
my THP HL-1.5 amp.

Don K7FJ

ac0h

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

Exactly.

I'd believe $100M in the amateur (HF and VHF/UHF), commercial, maritime,
and aviation markets combined.
I'd love to know how many HF rigs they sell per year.

On 6/17/2010 4:04 PM, Brett Howard wrote:
> Actually the K3 can sell a LOT less than 100Million and be on par with
> the number of IKY's sold. While Elecraft is a Ham Radio only
> organization IKY make a lot of money selling communications products
> to completely unrelated sectors.
>
> ~Brett
>

--
R. Kevin Stover

ACØH

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k6dgw

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by Bob Naumann W5OV

Bob Naumann wrote:

> What this tells us is that while us K3 types are devoted and loyal, we're
> just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur market compared to the
> "big two". (Kenwood doesn't count until they come out with a real radio -
> then it once again may be the 'big 3').

Actually, I don't think it "tells us" this at all. I/Y/K manufacture and
sell a huge range of electronic products, not all radios in the usual
sense, and most of ones that are "radios" are for non-ham users. They
are all very large international companies, and no fooling, they make
good ham radios, no question. Elecraft on the other hand, sells ham
radio products only -- and very good ones that compete with the specs of
the others so well as to win in most categories. Coupled with the
issues of support, upgrade, and cost, E-radios are probably at the top
of the heap for many reasons.

My KX1 is #697 [I think]. K2 is #4398. K3 is #642, but it has a couple
of hardware mods and is running FW Ver 4.03 as I type this, pretty much
up to date as of 17 Jun 2010. I have yet to see an update for my FT-847
[which I like and use on UHF/VHF]. Actually, I don't think Yaesu even
knows I'm one of their customers, but Elecraft does.

We need to be very careful how we compare radios and companies who make
them.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2010 Cal QSO Party 2-3 Oct 2010
- www.cqp.org
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Brett Howard

Re: LDG

I had the pleasure of helping out at the Elecraft booth at SeaPac
recently and I also took a bit of time to go and listen to how Icom's
booth was going...

The Icom booth guys seemed to be marketing guys who don't really do a
lot of ham stuff. The Elecraft booth was being assisted by customers
who were excited about the product enough to want to help out.

Then finally the BIGGEST difference between the Icom, Kenwood booth and
the Elecraft booth. People continually came up to us to tell us about
their radios and how much they loved them. But the biggest piece of
uniqueness is that every person I talked to could tell me their serial
number off the top of their head. How many who own a IKY can state
their serial number off the top of their head? Do I have some fun
stories and did I have a lot of fun with my TS-450Sat? Hell yes. Do I
feel the connection to that radio that I do my K3? Meh not even close.

Its a different animal. Elecraft does a great job focusing on just our
segment of the market and IKY generally sees the Amateur Radio market as
a fairly small portion of its total revenue and applies attention to
those customers accordingly. Thus I do feel like IKY spends time
listening to and responding to Amateur Radio customers! But they've got
other customers with a lot more money under their control that take
president.

~Brett (N7MG)

On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 19:49 -0700, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Bob Naumann wrote:
>
> > What this tells us is that while us K3 types are devoted and loyal, we're
> > just a drop in the bucket of the world-wide amateur market compared to the
> > "big two". (Kenwood doesn't count until they come out with a real radio -
> > then it once again may be the 'big 3').
>
> Actually, I don't think it "tells us" this at all. I/Y/K manufacture and
> sell a huge range of electronic products, not all radios in the usual
> sense, and most of ones that are "radios" are for non-ham users. They
> are all very large international companies, and no fooling, they make
> good ham radios, no question. Elecraft on the other hand, sells ham
> radio products only -- and very good ones that compete with the specs of
> the others so well as to win in most categories. Coupled with the
> issues of support, upgrade, and cost, E-radios are probably at the top
> of the heap for many reasons.
>
> My KX1 is #697 [I think]. K2 is #4398. K3 is #642, but it has a couple
> of hardware mods and is running FW Ver 4.03 as I type this, pretty much
> up to date as of 17 Jun 2010. I have yet to see an update for my FT-847
> [which I like and use on UHF/VHF]. Actually, I don't think Yaesu even
> knows I'm one of their customers, but Elecraft does.
>
> We need to be very careful how we compare radios and companies who make
> them.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2010 Cal QSO Party 2-3 Oct 2010
> - www.cqp.org
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Nelson

Re: LDG

In reply to this post by ac0h

On 6/17/2010 8:40 PM, R. Kevin Stover wrote:

> Exactly.
>
> I'd believe $100M in the amateur (HF and VHF/UHF), commercial, maritime,
> and aviation markets combined.
> I'd love to know how many HF rigs they sell per year.
>
> On 6/17/2010 4:04 PM, Brett Howard wrote:
>
>> Actually the K3 can sell a LOT less than 100Million and be on par with
>> the number of IKY's sold. While Elecraft is a Ham Radio only
>> organization IKY make a lot of money selling communications products
>> to completely unrelated sectors.
>>
>> ~Brett
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2944 - Release Date: 06/17/10 11:33:00
>
>

Hi all,

For those inquiring minds who really want to know and would be willing
to do a little bit of work to find out, a web site could be set up where
anyone with an IKY radio purchased new could enter the radio model, date
of purchase and serial number. Accumulating enough of these data points
would give a trend of how many radios were sold per unit time. Because
the HROs and AESs would probably buy quantities of radios at one time
and not sell them in serial number order, the data would have to be
analyzed over longer periods of time. Having the origin of the purchase
may be informative as well. The name and call sign is something said
data base should NOT have for many reasons.

If I were a buyer, I would love to know how many units of a given radio
had been sold. It might influence my purchase decision. If I were
looking for a used unit, I would have a sense for the likelihood of
finding a used radio of a given model.

My goodness this sounds like something a company in the HAM radio market
might find useful for deciding what products might make sense and where
there may be opportunities.

If someone like ARRL or eham were to collect this data, it would be
valuable public information for everyone in the HAM radio market, buyer
and seller.

Don, N0YE

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