Elecraft

Linked VFO's -- usage?

Classic

List

Threaded

28 messages Options

Cady, Fred

Linked VFO's -- usage?

Hi All,
In the current K3 firmware (going back a few versions) you can link VFO A and B with the CONFIG:VFO LNK menu. You used to get them linked by holding SUB, but now that turns on diversity. A good change. Linked VFOs is not diversity, in which VFO A controls the main and sub receivers independently of VFO B. In linked mode the two receivers remain independently controlled by their own VFOs but when you tune VFO A, VFO B tracks along. Tuning VFO B doesn't change VFO A.

So, I'm wondering what others are using linked VFOs for?

Cheers and 73,
Fred KE7X

Author of:
"The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
"The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
"The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station"
Printed, coil bound copies of these are all available at www.elecraft.com
KPA500 and KAT500 Quick Set Up Guide
http://www.ke7x.com/home/k-line-introduction-and-set-up-guide

KAT500 and KXPA500 Tuner Operation
http://www.ke7x.com/home/kat500-and-kxpa100-tuners

"The Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M Transverters - Assembling the KX3-Line Station" available at www.lulu.com.

"The Elecraft K3S and P3" and a 3rd Edition of the K3 book with K3S upgrade parts are works in progress.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dave New, N8SBE

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

Operating split on 10M on the FM repeaters.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Elecraft] Linked VFO's -- usage?
From: "Cady, Fred" <[hidden email]>
Date: Sat, August 01, 2015 4:05 pm
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>

Hi All,
In the current K3 firmware (going back a few versions) you can link VFO
A and B with the CONFIG:VFO LNK menu. You used to get them linked by
holding SUB, but now that turns on diversity. A good change. Linked VFOs
is not diversity, in which VFO A controls the main and sub receivers
independently of VFO B. In linked mode the two receivers remain
independently controlled by their own VFOs but when you tune VFO A, VFO
B tracks along. Tuning VFO B doesn't change VFO A.

So, I'm wondering what others are using linked VFOs for?

Cheers and 73,
Fred KE7X

Author of:
"The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
"The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
"The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station"
Printed, coil bound copies of these are all available at
www.elecraft.com
KPA500 and KAT500 Quick Set Up Guide
http://www.ke7x.com/home/k-line-introduction-and-set-up-guide

KAT500 and KXPA500 Tuner Operation
http://www.ke7x.com/home/kat500-and-kxpa100-tuners

"The Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M Transverters - Assembling the
KX3-Line Station" available at www.lulu.com.

"The Elecraft K3S and P3" and a 3rd Edition of the K3 book with K3S
upgrade parts are works in progress.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Gary Gregory-2

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Cady, Fred

Fred,
I was mortified when first suggestions appeared saying the linked feature should disappear and I became a vocal critic of removal and hear is why.

I don't have or intend to add the second receiver and I think I am not alone.

I chase dx most of my operating time and Dxpeditions are high on my list. As we all know these ops often run up 2 on cw or up 5 on SSB with variations of their split.

Setting the vfo's to 'linked' I run up and down the band I am on and when I find the station I am chasing I have the k3 set to split and I can quickly jump in and get the contact.

This style has kept me away from the 'up up up' cops and keeps my blood pressure in normal range. Always a good thing right?

Are there other uses? Maybe, maybe not, but this works nice for me and I have operated this way for thousands of QSO's since '08 with #679

Hope I explained this correctly as my k3 is at Elecraft for upgrade and repair and waiting for the billing department to issue an invoice do it can be shipped back. Don't ask me why it takes days to get an invoice, I am not impressed.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: "Cady, Fred" <[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎2/‎08/‎2015 6:06 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Linked VFO's -- usage?

Hi All,
In the current K3 firmware (going back a few versions) you can link VFO A and B with the CONFIG:VFO LNK menu. You used to get them linked by holding SUB, but now that turns on diversity. A good change. Linked VFOs is not diversity, in which VFO A controls the main and sub receivers independently of VFO B. In linked mode the two receivers remain independently controlled by their own VFOs but when you tune VFO A, VFO B tracks along. Tuning VFO B doesn't change VFO A.

So, I'm wondering what others are using linked VFOs for?

Cheers and 73,
Fred KE7X

Author of:
"The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
"The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
"The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station"
Printed, coil bound copies of these are all available at www.elecraft.com
KPA500 and KAT500 Quick Set Up Guide
http://www.ke7x.com/home/k-line-introduction-and-set-up-guide

KAT500 and KXPA500 Tuner Operation
http://www.ke7x.com/home/kat500-and-kxpa100-tuners

"The Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M Transverters - Assembling the KX3-Line Station" available at www.lulu.com.

"The Elecraft K3S and P3" and a 3rd Edition of the K3 book with K3S upgrade parts are works in progress.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

wayne burdick

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Dave New, N8SBE

Hi Dave,

You don't need to use linked VFOs for this purpose. If you've set up a repeater offset on the current band, and have selected +/- rather than simplex (using the ALT switch in FM mode), then transmit will automatically be offset that amount from VFO A no matter where you tune in the band.

For this reason, you don't need to use VFO B at all when using FM and repeaters with the K3, K3S, or KX3. Hence no need to use VFO linking, SPLIT mode, etc.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Aug 1, 2015, at 1:58 PM, "Dave New, N8SBE" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Operating split on 10M on the FM repeaters.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [Elecraft] Linked VFO's -- usage?
> From: "Cady, Fred" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sat, August 01, 2015 4:05 pm
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>
> Hi All,
> In the current K3 firmware (going back a few versions) you can link VFO
> A and B with the CONFIG:VFO LNK menu. You used to get them linked by
> holding SUB, but now that turns on diversity. A good change. Linked VFOs
> is not diversity, in which VFO A controls the main and sub receivers
> independently of VFO B. In linked mode the two receivers remain
> independently controlled by their own VFOs but when you tune VFO A, VFO
> B tracks along. Tuning VFO B doesn't change VFO A.
>
> So, I'm wondering what others are using linked VFOs for?
>
> Cheers and 73,
> Fred KE7X
>
> Author of:
> "The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
> "The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
> "The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station"
> Printed, coil bound copies of these are all available at
> www.elecraft.com
> KPA500 and KAT500 Quick Set Up Guide
> http://www.ke7x.com/home/k-line-introduction-and-set-up-guide
>
> KAT500 and KXPA500 Tuner Operation
> http://www.ke7x.com/home/kat500-and-kxpa100-tuners
>
> "The Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M Transverters - Assembling the
> KX3-Line Station" available at www.lulu.com.
>
> "The Elecraft K3S and P3" and a 3rd Edition of the K3 book with K3S
> upgrade parts are works in progress.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

Hi all,

I might be one of few people who use the Linked VFO's in diversity, not
that I want to, but because I have to.

When listening to diversity I am stuck with the L-MIX-R setting to A-b.
Some times I want to switch from A-b to A-A or b-b and back again.
It is used when I need to listen to only one antenna because of very
weak signal or QRM via the other antenna to my other ear.
This switching cannot be done when the K3 is in diversity mode, which is
a pity. That's why I Link the VFO's. (All done with computer macro
commands of course).

It's probably not on the list for this to come in the firmware. It's
seems to be only Arie (me) that would appreciate the audio switching in
diversity :-)
The K3 is a very flexible radio, but not at this. If I only could switch
the audio when the radio is in diversity via a macro, that would be
enough. (Does not need to be from a front side button)

73
Arie PA3A

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

dmb@lightstream.net

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

Arie,

Haven't drawn this out, but couldn't you accomplish your headphone audio
routing requirement via a simple outboard switch or pair of switches
mounted in a small box?

73, Dale
WA8SRA

> Hi all,
>
> I might be one of few people who use the Linked VFO's in diversity, not
> that I want to, but because I have to.
>
> When listening to diversity I am stuck with the L-MIX-R setting to A-b.
> Some times I want to switch from A-b to A-A or b-b and back again.
> It is used when I need to listen to only one antenna because of very
> weak signal or QRM via the other antenna to my other ear.
> This switching cannot be done when the K3 is in diversity mode, which is
> a pity. That's why I Link the VFO's. (All done with computer macro
> commands of course).
>
> It's probably not on the list for this to come in the firmware. It's
> seems to be only Arie (me) that would appreciate the audio switching in
> diversity :-)
> The K3 is a very flexible radio, but not at this. If I only could switch
> the audio when the radio is in diversity via a macro, that would be
> enough. (Does not need to be from a front side button)
>
> 73
> Arie PA3A

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Arie,

When in diversity, normally both the SubRX and the Main RX are
controlled by VFO A.
You must be in SPLIT to do what you are doing. Is that true?

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/2/2015 10:34 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I might be one of few people who use the Linked VFO's in diversity,
> not that I want to, but because I have to.
>
> When listening to diversity I am stuck with the L-MIX-R setting to A-b.
> Some times I want to switch from A-b to A-A or b-b and back
> again. It is used when I need to listen to only one antenna because of
> very weak signal or QRM via the other antenna to my other ear.
> This switching cannot be done when the K3 is in diversity mode, which
> is a pity. That's why I Link the VFO's. (All done with computer macro
> commands of course).
>

Vic Rosenthal

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

What I do is switch antenna connections. My secondary antenna is
connected to both the RX ANT and the sub's BNC input. So I can listen to
the main + secondary antennas in diversity mode, just the main antenna
with diversity off, or just the secondary antenna (regardless of whether
diversity is on or off) with the RX ANT switch on.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 2 Aug 2015 17:34, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:

Edward R Cole

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Cady, Fred

Don, and all:

I don't think diversity will work with different VFO's. Both Rx need
to be in phase from one LO for diversity reception to work.

I run diversity Rx on 2m with RF channels that are orthogonally
different polarity and that feeds dual IQ baseband thru a four port
soundcard to my computer running a special form of JT65 which can
pick out the angle of polarization from the two signals and peaks
reception. Every part of the RF chain needs to be in the same phase
for that to work. The K3 + KRX3 was the only ham radio to offer this
for my IF. I use two LP-Pan on the 1st IF of the K3 and KRX3 to get
that. Details are on my website under Tech Topics/SDR/using MAP65...

I have not used linked Rx but can see its value keeping one VFO a
fixed offset in frequency from the other as one tunes. I have used a
somewhat similar idea with a VHF/UHF satellite Rx/Tx where the Tx
keeps a freq relationship with the Rx frequency. It was not a simple
linking because the system had to adapt to different Doppler
effects. I will attempt to link my K3 + 432 transverter in Tx with
my KX3-2M for satellite operation. But tuning of both will require
special sw to take care of the changing differential in offset.

I do use Tx split freq when operating 1296-eme because Doppler can
lead to offsets as high as 2-KHz between stations. But that is the
normal Rx-VFOA, Tx-VFOB, and not using linking of the dual Rx. EME
at 1296 and higher uses circular polarization that overcomes polarity
mismatching so my dual-pol diversity Rx is not needed.

I have not upgraded my K3 firmware to the vers that has separated
linking and diversity on the SUB button.

73, Ed - KL7UW

From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: Arie Kleingeld PA3A <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]"
<[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Linked VFO's -- usage?

Arie,

When in diversity, normally both the SubRX and the Main RX are
controlled by VFO A.
You must be in SPLIT to do what you are doing. Is that true?

73,
Don W3FPR

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

Vic,

I have the macro's programmed under F9-F10-F11-F12 in N1MM logger.
The response of the K3 to the F-keys is swift. Switching Diversity on
and off etc. is not as quick.
Do you use macro's for this Vic?

73
Arie
.

Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO schreef op 3-8-2015 om 5:35:

>
> What I do is switch antenna connections. My secondary antenna is
> connected to both the RX ANT and the sub's BNC input. So I can listen
> to the main + secondary antennas in diversity mode, just the main
> antenna with diversity off, or just the secondary antenna (regardless
> of whether diversity is on or off) with the RX ANT switch on.
>
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 2 Aug 2015 17:34, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I might be one of few people who use the Linked VFO's in diversity, not
>> that I want to, but because I have to.
>>
>> When listening to diversity I am stuck with the L-MIX-R setting to A-b.
>> Some times I want to switch from A-b to A-A or b-b and back again.
>> It is used when I need to listen to only one antenna because of very
>> weak signal or QRM via the other antenna to my other ear.
>> This switching cannot be done when the K3 is in diversity mode, which is
>> a pity. That's why I Link the VFO's. (All done with computer macro
>> commands of course).
>>
>> It's probably not on the list for this to come in the firmware. It's
>> seems to be only Arie (me) that would appreciate the audio switching in
>> diversity :-)
>> The K3 is a very flexible radio, but not at this. If I only could switch
>> the audio when the radio is in diversity via a macro, that would be
>> enough. (Does not need to be from a front side button)
>>
>> 73
>> Arie PA3A
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don,

to set things up, I use a macro programmed in the F12-key in N1MM to
copy the freq/mode/BW From A to B, switch on the SubRx, set audio to
A-b listening and Link the VFO's. Switching of the audio is done in
F9-F10-11 to A-b, A-A, or b-b respectively.

Of course I would like that I could switch the audio when the K3 is in
diversity mode, but That cannot be done in current Firmware. In
diversity the audio is fixed to A-b.

73
Arie PA3A

Don Wilhelm schreef op 2-8-2015 om 19:06:

> Arie,
>
> When in diversity, normally both the SubRX and the Main RX are
> controlled by VFO A.
> You must be in SPLIT to do what you are doing. Is that true?
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 8/2/2015 10:34 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I might be one of few people who use the Linked VFO's in diversity,
>> not that I want to, but because I have to.
>>
>> When listening to diversity I am stuck with the L-MIX-R setting to A-b.
>> Some times I want to switch from A-b to A-A or b-b and back
>> again. It is used when I need to listen to only one antenna because
>> of very weak signal or QRM via the other antenna to my other ear.
>> This switching cannot be done when the K3 is in diversity mode, which
>> is a pity. That's why I Link the VFO's. (All done with computer macro
>> commands of course).
>>
>
>

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

Dale,

That would be a nice work around, introducing another device :-) I am
limiting the number of devices as much as possible.
Having it under the F-keys is just so nice. I wonder why no one asked
for this before. At the club the K3 is really showing off when people
use it this way.

73
Arie

[hidden email] schreef op 2-8-2015 om 13:52:

> Arie,
>
> Haven't drawn this out, but couldn't you accomplish your headphone audio
> routing requirement via a simple outboard switch or pair of switches
> mounted in a small box?
>
> 73, Dale
> WA8SRA
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I might be one of few people who use the Linked VFO's in diversity, not
>> that I want to, but because I have to.
>>
>> When listening to diversity I am stuck with the L-MIX-R setting to A-b.
>> Some times I want to switch from A-b to A-A or b-b and back again.
>> It is used when I need to listen to only one antenna because of very
>> weak signal or QRM via the other antenna to my other ear.
>> This switching cannot be done when the K3 is in diversity mode, which is
>> a pity. That's why I Link the VFO's. (All done with computer macro
>> commands of course).
>>
>> It's probably not on the list for this to come in the firmware. It's
>> seems to be only Arie (me) that would appreciate the audio switching in
>> diversity :-)
>> The K3 is a very flexible radio, but not at this. If I only could switch
>> the audio when the radio is in diversity via a macro, that would be
>> enough. (Does not need to be from a front side button)
>>
>> 73
>> Arie PA3A
>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Arie,

The K3 may be in diversity, but you will only hear in diversity mode
when the audio is A-b.
The diversity effect is 'in your head' as your ears naturally pick up
the differences between the two receivers and your brain figures out
which is the best to hear.

When you have the audio set to A-A or b-b, you are hearing the audio
from only one receiver, and by definition, that is not diversity reception.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/3/2015 10:30 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:

> Don,
>
> to set things up, I use a macro programmed in the F12-key in N1MM to
> copy the freq/mode/BW From A to B, switch on the SubRx, set audio to
> A-b listening and Link the VFO's. Switching of the audio is done in
> F9-F10-11 to A-b, A-A, or b-b respectively.
>
> Of course I would like that I could switch the audio when the K3 is in
> diversity mode, but That cannot be done in current Firmware. In
> diversity the audio is fixed to A-b.
>

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

Respectfully,

This is not an issue of definition. I'm sure everyone agrees that
on-purpose listening to A-A is not diversity. What they are talking about
is a situational coping mechanism when using diversity as the main
listening mode in a contest.

This occurs in diversity mode when one ear has a very weak desired signal
and the other a very loud undesired signal. My current coping mechanism for
this is to push one headphone bell forward off my ear. It would be better
to temporarily switch to both ears on desired signal, but this is *very*
clumsy using the front panel.

A discussion on how to deal with it would be helpful. Using diversity in
contesting is a newly emerging skill that is only really emerging with
common usage of two receiver K3's.

There needs to be a non-dismissive serious response to these concerns. If
there are hard technical reasons why this should be done external to the K3
it would be good to known these and move on to an external solution. It
does seem though like the straightforward treatment is somewhere inside the
K3 digital number soup.

73, Guy K2AV

On Monday, August 3, 2015, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Arie,
>
> The K3 may be in diversity, but you will only hear in diversity mode when
> the audio is A-b.
> The diversity effect is 'in your head' as your ears naturally pick up the
> differences between the two receivers and your brain figures out which is
> the best to hear.
>
> When you have the audio set to A-A or b-b, you are hearing the audio from
> only one receiver, and by definition, that is not diversity reception.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 8/3/2015 10:30 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> to set things up, I use a macro programmed in the F12-key in N1MM to copy
>> the freq/mode/BW From A to B, switch on the SubRx, set audio to A-b
>> listening and Link the VFO's. Switching of the audio is done in F9-F10-11
>> to A-b, A-A, or b-b respectively.
>>
>> Of course I would like that I could switch the audio when the K3 is in
>> diversity mode, but That cannot be done in current Firmware. In diversity
>> the audio is fixed to A-b.
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

alsopb

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

I really wonder about ab ab audio in diversity. That is both rx audio
in both ears. The "diversity" comes from the antenna. What does the
brain do worse in "diversity" with this ab ab mode of receiving?

Since you can't do it with the current K3 software, where is the A/B
testing shows the superiority of listening to separate signals in each
ear. I suppose there are papers out there on this.

Unlike many, in split mode I listen to both RX in both ears. No
problem. Adjustment of audio gain optimizes this situation on a per
station basis.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 8/3/2015 18:00 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> Respectfully,
>
> This is not an issue of definition. I'm sure everyone agrees that
> on-purpose listening to A-A is not diversity. What they are talking about
> is a situational coping mechanism when using diversity as the main
> listening mode in a contest.
>
> This occurs in diversity mode when one ear has a very weak desired signal
> and the other a very loud undesired signal. My current coping mechanism for
> this is to push one headphone bell forward off my ear. It would be better
> to temporarily switch to both ears on desired signal, but this is *very*
> clumsy using the front panel.
>
> A discussion on how to deal with it would be helpful. Using diversity in
> contesting is a newly emerging skill that is only really emerging with
> common usage of two receiver K3's.
>
> There needs to be a non-dismissive serious response to these concerns. If
> there are hard technical reasons why this should be done external to the K3
> it would be good to known these and move on to an external solution. It
> does seem though like the straightforward treatment is somewhere inside the
> K3 digital number soup.
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
>
> On Monday, August 3, 2015, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Arie,
>>
>> The K3 may be in diversity, but you will only hear in diversity mode when
>> the audio is A-b.
>> The diversity effect is 'in your head' as your ears naturally pick up the
>> differences between the two receivers and your brain figures out which is
>> the best to hear.
>>
>> When you have the audio set to A-A or b-b, you are hearing the audio from
>> only one receiver, and by definition, that is not diversity reception.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 8/3/2015 10:30 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:
>>
>>> Don,
>>>
>>> to set things up, I use a macro programmed in the F12-key in N1MM to copy
>>> the freq/mode/BW From A to B, switch on the SubRx, set audio to A-b
>>> listening and Link the VFO's. Switching of the audio is done in F9-F10-11
>>> to A-b, A-A, or b-b respectively.
>>>
>>> Of course I would like that I could switch the audio when the K3 is in
>>> diversity mode, but That cannot be done in current Firmware. In diversity
>>> the audio is fixed to A-b.
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>

Vic Rosenthal

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

I use the RX ANT button to give me b-b. I have programmed one of the programmable function buttons on the K3 to turn diversity on and off because it is faster than holding the SUB button. I haven't used N1MM macros for this because I don't use N1MM when chasing DX and I find these functions useful outside of contests too.

Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO

> On Aug 3, 2015, at 5:25 PM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Vic,
>
> I have the macro's programmed under F9-F10-F11-F12 in N1MM logger.
> The response of the K3 to the F-keys is swift. Switching Diversity on and off etc. is not as quick.
> Do you use macro's for this Vic?
>
>
> 73
> Arie
> .
>
> Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO schreef op 3-8-2015 om 5:35:
>>
>> What I do is switch antenna connections. My secondary antenna is connected to both the RX ANT and the sub's BNC input. So I can listen to the main + secondary antennas in diversity mode, just the main antenna with diversity off, or just the secondary antenna (regardless of whether diversity is on or off) with the RX ANT switch on.
>>
>> 73,
>> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Guy,

Being 'old fashioned', I would build a small box with 2 toggle switches
to do that function (assuming I wanted it). That would allow quick
determination of which audio goes into which ear. left ear receives
either A or b, and the other switch does the same for the right ear.
Yes, I would not attempt to use the front panel, but the switch box
would make instant selections suited to my needs at the time. A quick
glance at the toggle switch positions would tell me what I am listening
to and can be changed more quickly than making such a change inside the K3.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/3/2015 2:00 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> Respectfully,
>
> This is not an issue of definition. I'm sure everyone agrees that
> on-purpose listening to A-A is not diversity. What they are talking
> about is a situational coping mechanism when using diversity as the
> main listening mode in a contest.
>
> This occurs in diversity mode when one ear has a very weak desired
> signal and the other a very loud undesired signal. My current coping
> mechanism for this is to push one headphone bell forward off my ear.
> It would be better to temporarily switch to both ears on desired
> signal, but this is *very* clumsy using the front panel.
>
> A discussion on how to deal with it would be helpful. Using diversity
> in contesting is a newly emerging skill that is only really emerging
> with common usage of two receiver K3's.
>
>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Diversity Reception

In reply to this post by alsopb

I tend to agree with Brian.

However, in my world, "true diversity" is attained from 2 identical
receivers, each having a separate antenna in two different locations.
The source signal is a single transmitter. The output of each receiver
is fed to a circuit that determined the best signal-to-noise ratio and a
couple of other qualitative factors. Then the "best" signal of the two
was switched to the single output. That determination and switching,
all done electronically, could occur several hundred times per second.
The result is the output signal appeared totally seamless to the
listener. There were no A+B or A-B configured signals. That's
another methodology.

I would suppose with two receivers, each feeding output to a single ear,
one could use "brain power" to focus on one or the other of the two
signals. I think most would all agree, even today, the "brain filter"
is still one of the best available. However, if the receivers aren't
identical, then the result can seemingly be totally random. This would
appear to present a condition where excessive listening fatigue might occur.

A similar method I employed some 25+ years ago was indeed using two
antennas, one being a HF vertical and one being a HF horizontal. These
were configured with a switching network feeding one receiver. This was
done during the earlier days of Packet, AMTOR and such modes. I devised
a circuit that counted the error correction requests. After a value of
N, the system during a receive cycle, switched antennas. It was
interesting to watch as signals would fade on one antenna was observed
to likely rise on the other. The system greatly enhanced "through put"
of the data transmissions. Later I added a transmit power control to
the system such that the transmitter reduced power in steps until the
error rates increased. Again this relied on the error correction
request from the controller. The system then stepped the power up in
steps to a reliable power value. The objective was to operate at
minimum power based on propagation etc. Ahhhh, the days of "rolling
your own" equipment and methods.

73 Bob, K4TAX

On 8/3/2015 1:32 PM, brain wrote:

> I really wonder about ab ab audio in diversity. That is both rx
> audio in both ears. The "diversity" comes from the antenna. What does
> the brain do worse in "diversity" with this ab ab mode of receiving?
>
> Since you can't do it with the current K3 software, where is the A/B
> testing shows the superiority of listening to separate signals in each
> ear. I suppose there are papers out there on this.
>
> Unlike many, in split mode I listen to both RX in both ears. No
> problem. Adjustment of audio gain optimizes this situation on a per
> station basis.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> On 8/3/2015 18:00 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> This is not an issue of definition. I'm sure everyone agrees that
>> on-purpose listening to A-A is not diversity. What they are talking
>> about
>> is a situational coping mechanism when using diversity as the main
>> listening mode in a contest.
>>
>> This occurs in diversity mode when one ear has a very weak desired
>> signal
>> and the other a very loud undesired signal. My current coping
>> mechanism for
>> this is to push one headphone bell forward off my ear. It would be
>> better
>> to temporarily switch to both ears on desired signal, but this is *very*
>> clumsy using the front panel.
>>
>> A discussion on how to deal with it would be helpful. Using diversity in
>> contesting is a newly emerging skill that is only really emerging with
>> common usage of two receiver K3's.
>>
>> There needs to be a non-dismissive serious response to these
>> concerns. If
>> there are hard technical reasons why this should be done external to
>> the K3
>> it would be good to known these and move on to an external solution. It
>> does seem though like the straightforward treatment is somewhere
>> inside the
>> K3 digital number soup.
>>
>> 73, Guy K2AV
>>
>> On Monday, August 3, 2015, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Arie,
>>>
>>> The K3 may be in diversity, but you will only hear in diversity mode
>>> when
>>> the audio is A-b.
>>> The diversity effect is 'in your head' as your ears naturally pick
>>> up the
>>> differences between the two receivers and your brain figures out
>>> which is
>>> the best to hear.
>>>
>>> When you have the audio set to A-A or b-b, you are hearing the audio
>>> from
>>> only one receiver, and by definition, that is not diversity reception.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 8/3/2015 10:30 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don,
>>>>
>>>> to set things up, I use a macro programmed in the F12-key in N1MM
>>>> to copy
>>>> the freq/mode/BW From A to B, switch on the SubRx, set audio to A-b
>>>> listening and Link the VFO's. Switching of the audio is done in
>>>> F9-F10-11
>>>> to A-b, A-A, or b-b respectively.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I would like that I could switch the audio when the K3 is in
>>>> diversity mode, but That cannot be done in current Firmware. In
>>>> diversity
>>>> the audio is fixed to A-b.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Diversity Reception

On Mon,8/3/2015 1:31 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
> I tend to agree with Brian.

I do as well. It's important to realize that a large percentage of
fading is the result of signals arriving from multiple paths, resulting
in slightly different travel times from the source. This time difference
results in phase shift directly proportional to the time difference and
to the frequency.

When heard on VHF/UHF, we call this "picket fencing," and the fading is
much more rapid because of the higher frequency/shorter wavelength. On
the much lower bands (AM broadcast, 160M) we call it selective fading,
and the time between peaks and nulls is much greater (proportional to
wavelength differences). Diversity reception for this kind of fading
depends on antennas at different locations -- the time differences, and
thus the phase shifts, will be different at the two locations, so a fade
(strong cancellation) at one location will usually not be a strong
cancellation at the other.

The most critical thing about diversity is that separation, and keeping
the two receivers close enough in frequency so that the ear/brain is not
bothered by the difference in the note.

Another point -- It is generally a bad idea to COMBINE (sum) the outputs
of the two receivers into a single electrical channel. Two reasons.
First, as Bob has noted, the ear/brain is really good at choosing
signals presented to two ears -- that's how we hear directionality, and
it's how stereo works. Indeed, stereo works on the TIME difference of
the sound reaching the two ears. Second, if the travel times to the two
antennas are sufficiently different, the AUDIO signals can be enough
different in phase and equal in amplitude that they cancel in the
electrical channel. When the electrical signals are directed separately
to L and R loudspeakers, there is relatively little cancellation, and
there is none in headphones with one radio per ear.

I've summarized this from the result of decades of experience with sound
systems, an extensive study of phychoacoustics (the science of how
humans hear), as well as from 60 years in ham radio.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: Linked VFO's -- usage?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

The counter to yet another mechanical outside box is that the ability
to write firmware and update it inserts another very major
possibility, that it can be done in the digital stream without need of
extra cords and boxes.

To use the mechanical box, we must physically route the audio to the
box and plug in the headphones there. We have to mount the box so it
doesn't move around. And worst of all, I have to make it.

My microHam box doesn't treat a/b audio in this manner. "B" audio is
radio 2 with its own stereo audio output. and it labels a pair of
stereo lines RX1 and RX2. That deals with a pair of radios, not
left/right stereo audio switching. So if I actually have two radios
hooked up to it, no way to use it "creatively" to do the tricks just
with the K3 in diversity.

If I take my K3 anywhere else, like NY4A for multi contesting, I lose
the function as what I get at NY4A is main antenna, RX antenna and
power from the station, rather than a double of my now unique home
station.

Putting it in the digital functions makes it instantly portable.

So, understanding your suggestion completely, and with no malice
whatsoever, I decline, and still lean to the future with something
that can be put in a macro stream sent to it from MM+ or whatever. I
CAN take my MM+ macros with embedded K3 program commands.

Feeding the A stream to the b audio just seems to be too easy in
firmware, it's already done for non-diversity.

Use of the diversity hold is problematic because it assumes that the
unwanted half of the headphone audio is in the subRX side.

73, Guy

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Guy,
>
> Being 'old fashioned', I would build a small box with 2 toggle switches to
> do that function (assuming I wanted it). That would allow quick
> determination of which audio goes into which ear. left ear receives either
> A or b, and the other switch does the same for the right ear.
> Yes, I would not attempt to use the front panel, but the switch box would
> make instant selections suited to my needs at the time. A quick glance at
> the toggle switch positions would tell me what I am listening to and can be
> changed more quickly than making such a change inside the K3.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 8/3/2015 2:00 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> This is not an issue of definition. I'm sure everyone agrees that
>> on-purpose listening to A-A is not diversity. What they are talking about is
>> a situational coping mechanism when using diversity as the main listening
>> mode in a contest.
>>
>> This occurs in diversity mode when one ear has a very weak desired signal
>> and the other a very loud undesired signal. My current coping mechanism for
>> this is to push one headphone bell forward off my ear. It would be better to
>> temporarily switch to both ears on desired signal, but this is *very* clumsy
>> using the front panel.
>>
>> A discussion on how to deal with it would be helpful. Using diversity in
>> contesting is a newly emerging skill that is only really emerging with
>> common usage of two receiver K3's.
>>
>>
>