Elecraft

Linux and Operating

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William Liporace - WC2L

Linux and Operating

The XP SP3 thread has changed into a Linux discussion. I think is pretty
neat! I have been running Linux in my shack for about 10 yrs. You can see an
article from a June 2007 QST call AARA1, Murphy 0, by WA1KKM. That was the
year we got Linux running our local Field Day site. We have been using
OpenSuse for that and I typically run Linux Mint here at home.

There are lots of Distros and choices. Most allow a bootable CD for you to
try. I think some even allow you to save some stuff to a USB drive and etc.
I am spoiled, I usually have enough PCs or HD s to just swap around. Don't
be shy to try a Virtual Box. Virtual PC or any of the other options out
there.

For contesting I have been using KB by WA1KKM. You can also run N1MM &
WinTest in VMs and some do Wine. I have not done much of that I have enough
PCs to have a Windows PC too. There is also a new contest logging program
getting developed call CQRTEST (www.cqrtest.com) by Petr OK2CQR. Petr and
Martin OK1RR has also developed and very nice logging program called CQRLOG
(www.cqrlog.com). Of course we all know what Dave W1HKJ has done in the
Digital world with FLDIGI.

For those who care, there is NO support for FSK in Linux. We don't need to
go down that road. Most logging programs use HAMLIB for the radio control. I
will tell you that KB does not. There is currently no support for the
Elecraft radios in KB, Walt has stuff going on and I just got the radio..
There will be ;-) I can also tell you that some of the keying circuits are
not quite standard..

Like anything, there is not a one size fits all. Some like Windows, MAC and
Linux, the you have some like Elecraft, Yaesu, Kenwood and etc. Or some like
SSB, CW, Digital modes.. you get the idea ;-) This is a great hobby with
mostly great people. Love learning and playing!

Will WC2L
http://www.wc2l.com
http://dxc.wc2l.com
dxc.wc2l.com - AR-Cluster Node

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Chester Alderman

Re: Linux and Operating

Yes the discussion has changed into a Linux discussion. Would you please
remind me what relevance computer operating systems has to do with Elecraft
amateur radio gear? IMHO, it sure would be more appropriate to discuss
operating systems on a computer related reflector.

Tom - W4BQF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of William Liporace -
WC2L
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:24 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Linux and Operating

The XP SP3 thread has changed into a Linux discussion. I think is pretty
neat! I have been running Linux in my shack for about 10 yrs. You can see an
article from a June 2007 QST call AARA1, Murphy 0, by WA1KKM. That was the
year we got Linux running our local Field Day site. We have been using
OpenSuse for that and I typically run Linux Mint here at home.

There are lots of Distros and choices. Most allow a bootable CD for you to
try. I think some even allow you to save some stuff to a USB drive and etc.
I am spoiled, I usually have enough PCs or HD s to just swap around. Don't
be shy to try a Virtual Box. Virtual PC or any of the other options out
there.

For contesting I have been using KB by WA1KKM. You can also run N1MM &
WinTest in VMs and some do Wine. I have not done much of that I have enough
PCs to have a Windows PC too. There is also a new contest logging program
getting developed call CQRTEST (www.cqrtest.com) by Petr OK2CQR. Petr and
Martin OK1RR has also developed and very nice logging program called CQRLOG
(www.cqrlog.com). Of course we all know what Dave W1HKJ has done in the
Digital world with FLDIGI.

For those who care, there is NO support for FSK in Linux. We don't need to
go down that road. Most logging programs use HAMLIB for the radio control. I
will tell you that KB does not. There is currently no support for the
Elecraft radios in KB, Walt has stuff going on and I just got the radio..
There will be ;-) I can also tell you that some of the keying circuits are
not quite standard..

Like anything, there is not a one size fits all. Some like Windows, MAC and
Linux, the you have some like Elecraft, Yaesu, Kenwood and etc. Or some like
SSB, CW, Digital modes.. you get the idea ;-) This is a great hobby with
mostly great people. Love learning and playing!

Will WC2L
http://www.wc2l.com
http://dxc.wc2l.com
dxc.wc2l.com - AR-Cluster Node

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Jack Chomley

Re: Linux and Operating

In my Windows 8.1 Tablet post......I simply told everyone I had success making it work with the KX3 Utility, did I cross the line somewhere by posting about an operating system?

73,

Jack VK4JRC

Club. www.cqara.org.au
Member WIA SARL ARRL
GQRP #14392
QRPARCI #15068
VKQRP. #833

> On 30 Mar 2014, at 9:29 pm, "Chester Alderman" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes the discussion has changed into a Linux discussion. Would you please
> remind me what relevance computer operating systems has to do with Elecraft
> amateur radio gear? IMHO, it sure would be more appropriate to discuss
> operating systems on a computer related reflector.
>
> Tom - W4BQF
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of William Liporace -
> WC2L
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:24 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Linux and Operating
>
> The XP SP3 thread has changed into a Linux discussion. I think is pretty
> neat! I have been running Linux in my shack for about 10 yrs. You can see an
> article from a June 2007 QST call AARA1, Murphy 0, by WA1KKM. That was the
> year we got Linux running our local Field Day site. We have been using
> OpenSuse for that and I typically run Linux Mint here at home.
>
> There are lots of Distros and choices. Most allow a bootable CD for you to
> try. I think some even allow you to save some stuff to a USB drive and etc.
> I am spoiled, I usually have enough PCs or HD s to just swap around. Don't
> be shy to try a Virtual Box. Virtual PC or any of the other options out
> there.
>
> For contesting I have been using KB by WA1KKM. You can also run N1MM &
> WinTest in VMs and some do Wine. I have not done much of that I have enough
> PCs to have a Windows PC too. There is also a new contest logging program
> getting developed call CQRTEST (www.cqrtest.com) by Petr OK2CQR. Petr and
> Martin OK1RR has also developed and very nice logging program called CQRLOG
> (www.cqrlog.com). Of course we all know what Dave W1HKJ has done in the
> Digital world with FLDIGI.
>
> For those who care, there is NO support for FSK in Linux. We don't need to
> go down that road. Most logging programs use HAMLIB for the radio control. I
> will tell you that KB does not. There is currently no support for the
> Elecraft radios in KB, Walt has stuff going on and I just got the radio..
> There will be ;-) I can also tell you that some of the keying circuits are
> not quite standard..
>
> Like anything, there is not a one size fits all. Some like Windows, MAC and
> Linux, the you have some like Elecraft, Yaesu, Kenwood and etc. Or some like
> SSB, CW, Digital modes.. you get the idea ;-) This is a great hobby with
> mostly great people. Love learning and playing!
>
> Will WC2L
> http://www.wc2l.com
> http://dxc.wc2l.com
> dxc.wc2l.com - AR-Cluster Node
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Bill-3

Re: Linux and Operating

Healthy discussion regarding operating systems is very appropriate to
the world of Elecraft. Many ops use some form of computer assistance to
their operations, whether for simple logging or complete rig control and
digital modes. Of course, those not interested in the discussion may
simply page on, not reading what does not interest them.

Bill Clarke K-Line

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Chester Alderman

Re: Linux and Operating

No, I completely disagree with that opinion! To my knowledge Elecraft
designs, builds, and sells some pretty decent ham radio electronic
equipment, none of which REQUIRES a computer to operate. The moderator
guidelines for the Elecraft reflector recently re-published, simply asked
that off-topic discussions be held to a minimum, guidelines that a lot of
folks seem to just totally ignore!

Tom - W4BQF
K3/P3 - Alpha 9500

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill W2BLC
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:09 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Linux and Operating

Healthy discussion regarding operating systems is very appropriate to the
world of Elecraft. Many ops use some form of computer assistance to their
operations, whether for simple logging or complete rig control and digital
modes. Of course, those not interested in the discussion may simply page on,
not reading what does not interest them.

Bill Clarke K-Line

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AF5BV

Re: Linux and Operating

In reply to this post by Bill-3

Couldn't agree more. If this discussion has tweaked a deeper interest in Linux for ham use, then check out the Linuxham yahoo group

Paul
AF5BV and proud KX3 owner/operator

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:09, Bill W2BLC <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Healthy discussion regarding operating systems is very appropriate to the world of Elecraft. Many ops use some form of computer assistance to their operations, whether for simple logging or complete rig control and digital modes. Of course, those not interested in the discussion may simply page on, not reading what does not interest them.
>
> Bill Clarke K-Line
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Linux and Operating

In reply to this post by Chester Alderman

On the other hand, the Elecraft web site does show
such options at this page:
http://www.elecraft.com/k2_remote.htm I think this
discussion, as it pertains to operating with
Elecraft transceivers, is relevant.

73, Phil w7ox

On 3/30/14, 8:10 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:

> No, I completely disagree with that opinion! To my knowledge Elecraft
> designs, builds, and sells some pretty decent ham radio electronic
> equipment, none of which REQUIRES a computer to operate. The moderator
> guidelines for the Elecraft reflector recently re-published, simply asked
> that off-topic discussions be held to a minimum, guidelines that a lot of
> folks seem to just totally ignore!
>
> Tom - W4BQF
> K3/P3 - Alpha 9500
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill W2BLC
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:09 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Linux and Operating
>
> Healthy discussion regarding operating systems is very appropriate to the
> world of Elecraft. Many ops use some form of computer assistance to their
> operations, whether for simple logging or complete rig control and digital
> modes. Of course, those not interested in the discussion may simply page on,
> not reading what does not interest them.
>
> Bill Clarke K-Line
>
>
>

Phil Hystad-3

Re: Linux and Operating

I too agree that this discussion has merit on the Elecraft web page. But, all such discussions do run their course and should end eventually. Even an on-topic K3 discussion needs to end at some point and Eric has done that in times passed.

I think the idea of jumping over to the Yahoo group Linuxham to continue Linux talk is a good suggestion. Or, maybe someone should create an ElecraftOpSys group to discuss the pros/cons, merits, demerits, and troubles of various operating systems in use with applications associated with Elecraft.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Mar 30, 2014, at 8:21 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On the other hand, the Elecraft web site does show such options at this page: http://www.elecraft.com/k2_remote.htm I think this discussion, as it pertains to operating with Elecraft transceivers, is relevant.
>
> 73, Phil w7ox
>
> On 3/30/14, 8:10 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>> No, I completely disagree with that opinion! To my knowledge Elecraft
>> designs, builds, and sells some pretty decent ham radio electronic
>> equipment, none of which REQUIRES a computer to operate. The moderator
>> guidelines for the Elecraft reflector recently re-published, simply asked
>> that off-topic discussions be held to a minimum, guidelines that a lot of
>> folks seem to just totally ignore!
>>
>> Tom - W4BQF
>> K3/P3 - Alpha 9500
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill W2BLC
>> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:09 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Linux and Operating
>>
>> Healthy discussion regarding operating systems is very appropriate to the
>> world of Elecraft. Many ops use some form of computer assistance to their
>> operations, whether for simple logging or complete rig control and digital
>> modes. Of course, those not interested in the discussion may simply page on,
>> not reading what does not interest them.
>>
>> Bill Clarke K-Line
>>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Bill Turner

Re: Linux and Operating

In reply to this post by William Liporace - WC2L

ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)

On 3/30/2014 3:24 AM, William Liporace - WC2L wrote:
>
> For those who care, there is NO support for FSK in Linux. We don't need to
> go down that road.

REPLY:

Once again. Linux shoots itself in the foot.

73, Bill W6WRT

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David Woolley (E.L)

Re: Linux and Operating

Linux had AFSK support in the kernel a decade ago. Modern versions use
a user space program, for this.

On 30/03/14 16:44, Bill Turner wrote:

> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>
> On 3/30/2014 3:24 AM, William Liporace - WC2L wrote:
>> For those who care, there is NO support for FSK in Linux. We don't
>> need to
>> go down that road.
>
> REPLY:
>
> Once again. Linux shoots itself in the foot.
>

--
David Woolley
Owner K2 06123.

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Nate Bargmann

Re: Linux and Operating

In reply to this post by William Liporace - WC2L

* On 2014 30 Mar 05:26 -0500, William Liporace - WC2L wrote:
> There is also a new contest logging program
> getting developed call CQRTEST (www.cqrtest.com) by Petr OK2CQR. Petr and
> Martin OK1RR has also developed and very nice logging program called CQRLOG
> (www.cqrlog.com).

I've used CQRlog for several years and am pleased with its LoTW and eQSL
integration. I was unaware that Petr and Martin were working on
CQRtest. Thanks for the link and now that I know I can check it out.

Speaking as the current maintainer for Hamlib, there are some patches
pending that I've not gotten to due to moving (I didn't know I had THAT
much stuff!) and emergency overtime at work last week. Once things
settle down I will get those integrated into the development branch, one
of which includes some K3 updates as I recall.

> Of course we all know what Dave W1HKJ has done in the Digital world
> with FLDIGI.

For most of us writing software in the POSIX (I prefer that term as it
encompasses all of the UNIX and Unix like systems) it is our sub-hobby
of the amateur radio hobby. Dave may be the closest I am aware of to a
professional developer and his efforts are most welcome. He has also
pushed me to learn various aspects of programming and Hamlib that I
otherwise may have ignored and (I hope) the larger community has
benefitted.

73, de Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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AF5BV

Re: Linux and Operating

In reply to this post by Bill Turner

Bill,
The whole idea of Linux came from a passion to develop free software, based on need and not necessarily mass demand - most hams, and certainly Elecraft nuts like we are, fit into that category (i.e. we need stuff that the masses don't). Hence the GNU ("GNU is Not Unix") project, which by the way was developed in the 80's by some real smart folks at MIT who just produced free Unix apps and utilities - a guy in Finland put it all together and created the Linux kernel we all use today. Note too that Microsoft and OSX use many GNU applications/utilities, and that the Android and Chrome OS are both Linux distro's with proprietary add-ins.

If you want FSK support, then I suggest you go to the Linuxham group and pose the question - I am sure with all the Linux developers out there that are also ham radio enthusiasts, someone has either done it or will be willing to help.

Paul
AF5BV

On Mar 30, 2014, at 10:44 AM, Bill Turner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>
> On 3/30/2014 3:24 AM, William Liporace - WC2L wrote:
>> For those who care, there is NO support for FSK in Linux. We don't need to
>> go down that road.
>
> REPLY:
>
> Once again. Linux shoots itself in the foot.
>
> 73, Bill W6WRT
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: Linux and Operating

In reply to this post by Chester Alderman

Many of us use computers for a wide variety of purposes in the shack.

Some use them for logging, some for rig control.

Some of us operate almost exclusively keyboard-to-keyboard modes (don't
know why I own a straight key, a set of paddles, or a microphone).

Without using a computer, I'm QRT.

I'm not a big fan of the Windows-vs-Linux religious arguments, but I am
interested in what is, and isn't, available. I'm also still using what
most would consider antique operating systems.

The folks on the computer-related reflectors aren't interested in PSK-31
or JT65, and would object about as quickly as some here who still log
using a pen and paper.

I respect those who are old-school, but while I miss the 28KSR I once
had, I can take my laptop (running XP) and my KX3 and operate most anywhere.

Does that make sense, Chester?

73 -- Lynn

On 3/30/2014 4:29 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:

> Yes the discussion has changed into a Linux discussion. Would you please
> remind me what relevance computer operating systems has to do with Elecraft
> amateur radio gear? IMHO, it sure would be more appropriate to discuss
> operating systems on a computer related reflector.
>
> Tom - W4BQF
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of William Liporace -
> WC2L
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:24 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Linux and Operating
>
> The XP SP3 thread has changed into a Linux discussion. I think is pretty
> neat! I have been running Linux in my shack for about 10 yrs. You can see an
> article from a June 2007 QST call AARA1, Murphy 0, by WA1KKM. That was the
> year we got Linux running our local Field Day site. We have been using
> OpenSuse for that and I typically run Linux Mint here at home.
>
> There are lots of Distros and choices. Most allow a bootable CD for you to
> try. I think some even allow you to save some stuff to a USB drive and etc.
> I am spoiled, I usually have enough PCs or HD s to just swap around. Don't
> be shy to try a Virtual Box. Virtual PC or any of the other options out
> there.
>
> For contesting I have been using KB by WA1KKM. You can also run N1MM &
> WinTest in VMs and some do Wine. I have not done much of that I have enough
> PCs to have a Windows PC too. There is also a new contest logging program
> getting developed call CQRTEST (www.cqrtest.com) by Petr OK2CQR. Petr and
> Martin OK1RR has also developed and very nice logging program called CQRLOG
> (www.cqrlog.com). Of course we all know what Dave W1HKJ has done in the
> Digital world with FLDIGI.
>
> For those who care, there is NO support for FSK in Linux. We don't need to
> go down that road. Most logging programs use HAMLIB for the radio control. I
> will tell you that KB does not. There is currently no support for the
> Elecraft radios in KB, Walt has stuff going on and I just got the radio..
> There will be ;-) I can also tell you that some of the keying circuits are
> not quite standard..
>
> Like anything, there is not a one size fits all. Some like Windows, MAC and
> Linux, the you have some like Elecraft, Yaesu, Kenwood and etc. Or some like
> SSB, CW, Digital modes.. you get the idea ;-) This is a great hobby with
> mostly great people. Love learning and playing!
>
> Will WC2L
> http://www.wc2l.com
> http://dxc.wc2l.com
> dxc.wc2l.com - AR-Cluster Node
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Linux and Operating

All,

Yes, the XP computers, and even Win98 and Win2k computers will still
work just fine - just make sure they are isolated from an internet
connection and you can continue to use all the applications that you are
used to. For a dedicated shack computer using dedicated ham
applications, there may be no need to connect to the internet, it can
operate as a stand-alone computer.

In my case, I have my information and documents spread out over several
computers as well as a RAID file server, so I cannot sever from the
internet easily without also losing email and web access on the
computers that need those applications - in other words, with my current
setup, I cannot run a stand-alone computer to get the things I need
accomplished. For that reason, I have upgraded to Win7 on all my computers.

For those who can run a stand-alone system isolated from internet
hackers, you are free to run whatever OS you are happy with.

If you have all your files on a Windows XP computer and do not want to
bear the expense of migrating to Win7 or Win8, I suggest you try Linux
Mint with the Mate desktop (it is not a big jump from a Windows
desktop). You can still dual boot into WinXP, just do not use email or
a browser while in WinXP - in fact, it would be wise to disable your NIC
card in the XP control panel.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/30/2014 6:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> Many of us use computers for a wide variety of purposes in the shack.
>
> Some use them for logging, some for rig control.
>
> Some of us operate almost exclusively keyboard-to-keyboard modes
> (don't know why I own a straight key, a set of paddles, or a microphone).
>
> Without using a computer, I'm QRT.
>
> I'm not a big fan of the Windows-vs-Linux religious arguments, but I
> am interested in what is, and isn't, available. I'm also still using
> what most would consider antique operating systems.
>
> The folks on the computer-related reflectors aren't interested in
> PSK-31 or JT65, and would object about as quickly as some here who
> still log using a pen and paper.
>
> I respect those who are old-school, but while I miss the 28KSR I once
> had, I can take my laptop (running XP) and my KX3 and operate most
> anywhere.
>

Mike Reublin

Re: Linux and Operating

I see that Microsoft will continue to issue updates to MS Security Essentials, my AV of choice, for another year. I'm pretty sure other AV companies aren't dropping support. IMNSHO, there is no need to get our keyer cords in a twist over MS announcing end of life for XP(the best Windows yet).

That said, my main machine now is a Mac.

73, Mike NF4L

On Mar 30, 2014, at 7:29 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All,
>
> Yes, the XP computers, and even Win98 and Win2k computers will still work just fine - just make sure they are isolated from an internet connection and you can continue to use all the applications that you are used to. For a dedicated shack computer using dedicated ham applications, there may be no need to connect to the internet, it can operate as a stand-alone computer.
>
> In my case, I have my information and documents spread out over several computers as well as a RAID file server, so I cannot sever from the internet easily without also losing email and web access on the computers that need those applications - in other words, with my current setup, I cannot run a stand-alone computer to get the things I need accomplished. For that reason, I have upgraded to Win7 on all my computers.
>
> For those who can run a stand-alone system isolated from internet hackers, you are free to run whatever OS you are happy with.
>
> If you have all your files on a Windows XP computer and do not want to bear the expense of migrating to Win7 or Win8, I suggest you try Linux Mint with the Mate desktop (it is not a big jump from a Windows desktop). You can still dual boot into WinXP, just do not use email or a browser while in WinXP - in fact, it would be wise to disable your NIC card in the XP control panel.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/30/2014 6:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> Many of us use computers for a wide variety of purposes in the shack.
>>
>> Some use them for logging, some for rig control.
>>
>> Some of us operate almost exclusively keyboard-to-keyboard modes (don't know why I own a straight key, a set of paddles, or a microphone).
>>
>> Without using a computer, I'm QRT.
>>
>> I'm not a big fan of the Windows-vs-Linux religious arguments, but I am interested in what is, and isn't, available. I'm also still using what most would consider antique operating systems.
>>
>> The folks on the computer-related reflectors aren't interested in PSK-31 or JT65, and would object about as quickly as some here who still log using a pen and paper.
>>
>> I respect those who are old-school, but while I miss the 28KSR I once had, I can take my laptop (running XP) and my KX3 and operate most anywhere.
>>
>
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