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Mast question

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Reuben Popp

Mast question

Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly] Elecraft
related.

I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv. At
the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well). That said, some
years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
smaller. I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
of the roof. Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better. So,
what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?

There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on a
slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'. The
distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
abouts).

The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower is
out of my budget. I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300, if
possible. The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if that
helps any).

So, what do folks recommend?
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George Dubovsky

Re: Mast question

I would look for 3 used sections of Rohn 25, then figure out how to safely
bracket it to your house, if possible. That should be do-able for somewhere
close to your budget and certainly capable of holding up a G5RV.

73,

geo - n4ua

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Reuben Popp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly] Elecraft
> related.
>
> I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv. At
> the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
> that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well). That said, some
> years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
> smaller. I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
> of the roof. Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better. So,
> what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?
>
> There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on a
> slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'. The
> distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
> abouts).
>
> The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower is
> out of my budget. I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300, if
> possible. The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
> Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if that
> helps any).
>
> So, what do folks recommend?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Mast question

Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles. Quite sturdy and all kinds of lengths. Well within your budget.
Mel, K6KBE

From: George Dubovsky <[hidden email]>
To: Reuben Popp <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mast question

I would look for 3 used sections of Rohn 25, then figure out how to safely
bracket it to your house, if possible. That should be do-able for somewhere
close to your budget and certainly capable of holding up a G5RV.

73,

geo - n4ua

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Reuben Popp <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Neil Martinsen-Burrell

Re: Mast question

Fiberglass poles such as those from Spiderbeam or Max-Gain Systems (
mgs4u.com) won't support very much load without guys which your wife
disallowed (completely?). If you just want to support your G5RV above the
level of your roof, then you could use two roof tripods like those used for
TV antennas. Just put two 5-foot lengths of TV mast in each one and you'll
be more than 25 feet above the ground and 10 feet clear of
the roof.

If you are an inveterate scrounger, you could almost certainly get these
from the roofs of people who no longer use OTA TV antennas. When I drive
around here, there are lots of TV antennas in states of disrepair that I'm
sure the homeowners would be glad to get rid of.

If you don't want to bolt through the roof, you could use bracketed wooden
masts on each end of the house. You could also consider going to a longer
open-wire fed doublet with the center over your roof, supported by the two
roof towers, then extending off the house to a high attachment point on
each end (you could use an eight foot T-post). With a tuner, you should be
able to work all bands 80-6 once the total length of the antenna gets up
around 90 feet (and it doesn't have to run in a straight line).

-Neil N0FN

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles. Quite sturdy and all kinds of
> lengths. Well within your budget.
> Mel, K6KBE
>
>
> From: George Dubovsky <[hidden email]>
> To: Reuben Popp <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mast question
>
> I would look for 3 used sections of Rohn 25, then figure out how to safely
> bracket it to your house, if possible. That should be do-able for somewhere
> close to your budget and certainly capable of holding up a G5RV.
>
> 73,
>
> geo - n4ua
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Reuben Popp <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly]
> Elecraft
> > related.
> >
> > I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv.
> At
> > the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
> > that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well). That said, some
> > years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
> > smaller. I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
> > of the roof. Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better.
> So,
> > what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?
> >
> > There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on
> a
> > slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'. The
> > distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
> > abouts).
> >
> > The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower
> is
> > out of my budget. I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300,
> if
> > possible. The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
> > Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if
> that
> > helps any).
> >
> > So, what do folks recommend?
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Mast question

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

On Fri,5/27/2016 8:16 AM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles. Quite sturdy and all kinds of lengths. Well within your budget.

NOT sturdy. If you're going to use one, it MUST be well guyed, contrary
to advertising and photos on their website.

A simple solution I used on the house I owned in Chicago were Radio
Shack tripods and masts designed for holding TV antennas. One at the
front peak of the house roof and another at the peak of the garage roof
held up a loaded 80/40 dipole (about 100 ft long, with loading coils,
purchased from HyPower Antenna Co). Those masts WERE guyed, using #12
insulated copper, and I loaded one of them as a vertical on 30M and 10M,
with radials, of course.

Another option worth considering is a multi-band vertical on your roof.
Antennas like the HyGain AV620 AV640, and AV680, the the Cushcraft R6,
R8,and R9 are good choices -- they're well designed and don't need
radials. Lots of ideas in this piece that I wrote last year for National
Contest Journal. http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf and the slides for
a talk I've done at Pacificon and for several ham clubs. It includes
photos of the TV masts.

http://k9yc.com/LimitedSpaceAntennasPPT.pdf

73, Jim K9YC
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Grant Youngman

Re: Mast question

In reply to this post by Neil Martinsen-Burrell

I’ve tried fiberglass poles (from one of the vendors mentioned here, supposedly with UV inhibitors) for permanent installation. Didn’t work out well. After a couple of years, the push-up poles started to break down anyway and couldn’t be handled without gloves unless I wanted nasty fiberglass fuzz imbedded in my hands. They ended up going out in the trash.

There are certainly a lot of other options, and some have been suggested here. I finally ended up using a Spiderbeam aluminum push-up mast. These are very high quality products, which could easily be house bracketed to eliminate the need for guys, and much more suited to permanent installation. My mast (a 30-something ft HD version) was supported by a ground mounted rotator and guys, and held a Hex beam before I had to pull it down to sell my QTH. Not the same application, obviously, but an excellent quality product, and not outlandishly expensive.

YMMV

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342

>
> Fiberglass poles such as those from Spiderbeam or Max-Gain Systems (
> mgs4u.com <http://mgs4u.com/>) won't support very much load without guys

>> Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles. Quite sturdy and all kinds of
>> lengths. Well within your budget.

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: Mast question

A number of years ago I purchased two 20' lengths of 2" square, 1/8" wall
fiberglass tubing for the boom of an LPD array that I never built. They have
been laying outside on the ground in the Arizona sun since then. They are still
as smooth as the day I brought them home. Contrast that to some of the mil
surplus fiberglass tubing sections that have gone in the trash in a shorter
time. The good stuff is made by Strongwell and is used for handrail systems.

On 5/27/2016 9:42 AM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:

> I’ve tried fiberglass poles (from one of the vendors mentioned here, supposedly with UV inhibitors) for permanent installation. Didn’t work out well. After a couple of years, the push-up poles started to break down anyway and couldn’t be handled without gloves unless I wanted nasty fiberglass fuzz imbedded in my hands. They ended up going out in the trash.
>
> There are certainly a lot of other options, and some have been suggested here. I finally ended up using a Spiderbeam aluminum push-up mast. These are very high quality products, which could easily be house bracketed to eliminate the need for guys, and much more suited to permanent installation. My mast (a 30-something ft HD version) was supported by a ground mounted rotator and guys, and held a Hex beam before I had to pull it down to sell my QTH. Not the same application, obviously, but an excellent quality product, and not outlandishly expensive.
>
> YMMV
>
> Grant NQ5T
> K3 #2091, KX3 #8342
>
>
>
>
>> Fiberglass poles such as those from Spiderbeam or Max-Gain Systems (
>> mgs4u.com <http://mgs4u.com/>) won't support very much load without guys
>>> Look into the Spiderbeam fiberglass poles. Quite sturdy and all kinds of
>>> lengths. Well within your budget.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Vic Rosenthal

Re: Mast question

In reply to this post by Reuben Popp

You could put up a TV-type 10-foot mast on each end of the roof using a pair of eave mounts for each one. Then run the antenna between them. There isn't enough room for the whole antenna, but you can bend the ends down on either end. You would need a third mast in the middle of the roof to support the feed line and keep the center from sagging. That one would need guys, but they would all be above roof level.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 27 May 2016, at 4:19 PM, Reuben Popp <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hey everyone, more of a beginner question here and not [directly] Elecraft
> related.
>
> I have a K2 I built some time ago that I paired with a half size g5rv. At
> the time, I was living with a buddy whose house design allowed me to set
> that antenna up as a sloper (and it worked quite well). That said, some
> years have passed, I'm married now and the house I live in now is much
> smaller. I have the antenna still, but it's merely laid along the vertex
> of the roof. Reception is so-so, but I know it could be much better. So,
> what can I use for a reliable mast that would be left up all the time?
>
> There's no trees in the lot. The house itself is a single level house on a
> slab (no basement). and from end to end it's _maybe_ all of 40'. The
> distance from the ground to the vertex is maybe all of 16 feet (or there
> abouts).
>
> The XYL said she doesn't want guy wires all over and a rohn style tower is
> out of my budget. I'm looking for suggestions that's preferably < $300, if
> possible. The locale is mid-east Missouri, about an hour outside St.
> Louis; storms come and go but it's not like I'm in tornado country (if that
> helps any).
>
> So, what do folks recommend?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm

Re: Mast question

In reply to this post by Reuben Popp

Reuben,

If you do not want to go much higher than 30 feet, and are willing to
bracket the mast to the house peak, you can use 3 lengths of chain-link
fence top rail. It is relatively inexpensive and a 30 foot mast can be
"walked up" by one person (don't try it with 40 feet).

With the mast supported about halfway up you should not need any guy
wires unless you get high winds or the antenna is quite heavy. I have
used up to 20 feet of that chain-link top rail sections unsupported
above the bracket successfully here. If you go higher, guy wires would
be mandatory.

You could guy to the corners of the house and run the antenna legs in a
direction opposite those guy wires for full "guying" of the mast. I am
thinking the antenna would be in an inverted Vee configuration with the
antenna ends connected to a fence or to a post in the ground so the
wires are above head level.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/27/2016 9:19 AM, Reuben Popp wrote: