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Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

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Alan Slusher-2

Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

Colleagues:

Am looking for assistance in rewiring an Astatic D-104 Astatic microphone
(T-UG9 stand) for use with my K3 and K2 transceivers. The mic is presently
wired for 4-pin Ten-Tec.

Any assistance would be greatly, and gratefully, appreciated.

Alan V31FA

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Bayard Coolidge, N1HO

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

Alan (and others) -

I'm a very new K3 owner (S/N 06852) of only a few weeks, and I migrated from
an Icom IC-746Pro, and brought my D-104 and G-Stand over to the K3.

I am using a Heil HC-4 element in my D-104, instead of the original Astatic element.

One side of the HC-4 goes to a .01 (? or is it .001 - print's too small!) capacitor. The
other side of the capacitor goes to Pin 3 of the D-104 Lollipop plug. The other side
of the HC-4 goes to Pin 2 of the D-104 Lollipop plug. Pin 1 is the Lollipop's housing.

Pin 3 at the top of the G-Stand has a green wire which is connected to Terminal "B"
on the Terminal strip in the bottom of the G-Stand - this is "Mic Hot". Pin 2 at the top
of the G-Stand is internally strapped to Pin 1, and comes down on a black wire which
goes to Terminal "A" which is screwed directly to the housing.

Internal to the G-Stand are two more wires, Yellow and White/Green. Yellow is the
PTT NO line, and goes to Terminal C. White/Green is PTT NC and is NOT USED.

My coiled microphone cable is a simple two-wires-plus-shield/braid. Red is used as
Mic Hot and is connected to Terminal B on the G-Stand and K3 Pin 1. White is used
as PTT and is connected to Terminal C on the G-Stand and K3 Pin 2. Shield is
connected to Terminal A and K3 Pin 8.

I realize that this is a quick-and-dirty hack, and I'm sure others will have better ways
to accomplish what we're trying to do, but I know it worked well enough to get yelled
at on 12m the other day for not having my 'SPLIT' button engaged in a certain pile-up !

HTH and 73,

Bayard R. "Brandy" Coolidge, N1HO
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ke9uw

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

In reply to this post by Alan Slusher-2

Well it looks like:
pin 1 of the TT goes to pin 1 of the K3 8 pin MIC +
pin 3 of the TT goes to pin 2 of the K3 8 pin PTT
pin 4 of the TT goes to pin 6 of the K3 8 pin +8VDC for bias if needed
pin 2 of the TT goes to pin 7 of the K3 8 pin MIC - (also GND and I think is connected to pin 7 inside the K3)
shell of the TT goes to pin 8 of the K3 8 pin GND

The T-UG9 stand data sheet has a warning about using high impedance mics with an amplified stand.
The issues are tinny sound and overly sensitive gain adjust.
The easy fix is to use a resistor 10 times the input resistance of the rig in series with the MIC lead.
Or install a 10 to 1 pad inside the base of the T-UG9 using a 470 and a 4.7K resistor set.
470 to pin 5 and 4.7K to pin 3 and MIC lead to the junction of the two resistors.

I'm wondering maybe just turn off or bypass the amp in the base. Probably not needed for the K3.

Some links and info for the T-UG8/9

http://www.barovelli.com/projects/radio/radioastatic.htm

http://96.9.26.247/schemi/ACC_microphone/Astatic_UG8-TUG9_wiring.pdf

"T-UG8: Came with a 4-wire cord. The audio wire is NOT disconnected from the mike on receive. This causes a weird, loud squeal on RECEIVE side from some older AM-only radios. The straight mikes that came with those radios all had a switch section inside them that UNHOOKED the audio wire from the mike on receive. The T-UG8 has only a two-section switch inside it, mounted INSIDE the mast. One side keys the radio, and provides the receive-side connection. The other section turns the battery off when you unkey. No easy way to cut the audio wire loose from the audio amp in the mike for receive side.

T-UG9: Came with a six-wire cord. No radio made since 1980 used more than 5 of them. Go figure. That sixth wire was there for just one brand of radio: Johnson. They used all six wires, but went out of the CB radio business soon after the T-UG9 hit the market. The BIG difference is that the "9" has THREE switch sections inside it. The switch itself is mounted down inside the base, not inside the mast. Most of them will have a "press bar" in addition to the "choker" handle. This one will work with the old 4-pin AM radios without the receive-side squall sounds. That's because that THIRD switch section is attached to the audio wire. The stock setup in the mike is to ground the white audio wire on receive. Clipping one ground wire inside the base makes it compatible with those old "4-pin" radios. Besides, they quit making the "8" a long time ago. The "9" is a newer model, and a used one is probably newer than any "8"."

Chuck, KE9UW
Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Alan Slusher [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 8:21 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

Colleagues:

Am looking for assistance in rewiring an Astatic D-104 Astatic microphone
(T-UG9 stand) for use with my K3 and K2 transceivers. The mic is presently
wired for 4-pin Ten-Tec.

Any assistance would be greatly, and gratefully, appreciated.

Alan V31FA

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Chuck, KE9UW

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

In reply to this post by Alan Slusher-2

Alan,

The 4 pin vs. 8 pin is not your only problem. For pin to pin
connections, I suggest you consult G4WFW microphone connection database,
it is quite helpful.

The D-104 microphone element is quite high impedance, and some have
suggested simply using a series resistor to mitigate the high vs. low
resistance microphone impedance situation, I would suggest that a simple
FET stage could solve the problem. The D-104 mic feeds the gate of the
FET and the output is taken from the source (or drain). There was a web
reference to the Heil FET amplifier that was recommended, but I have
lost it. I have it on my hardrive and will send it to Alan in a
separate email. -- the reflector will not accept html nor any other
resential

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/20/2012 9:21 PM, Alan Slusher wrote:

> Colleagues:
>
> Am looking for assistance in rewiring an Astatic D-104 Astatic microphone
> (T-UG9 stand) for use with my K3 and K2 transceivers. The mic is presently
> wired for 4-pin Ten-Tec.
>
> Any assistance would be greatly, and gratefully, appreciated.
>
>
> Alan V31FA
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

In reply to this post by Alan Slusher-2

Alan,

This is the FET mic preamp that I promised.

Alan,

The 4 pin vs. 8 pin is not your only problem. For pin to pin
connections, I suggest you consult G4WFW microphone connection database,
it is quite helpful.

The D-104 microphone element is quite high impedance, and some have
suggested simply using a series resistor to mitigate the high vs. low
resistance microphone impedance situation, I would suggest that a simple
FET stage could solve the problem. The D-104 mic feeds the gate of the
FET and the output is taken from the source (or drain). There was a web
reference to the Heil FET amplifier that was recommended, but I have
lost it. I have it on my hardrive and will send it to Alan in a
separate email. -- the reflector will not accept html nor any other
resential

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/20/2012 9:21 PM, Alan Slusher wrote:

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

Don,

Here is the link to a circuit by Paul, W9AC in response to some
questions I asked several years ago:
http://72.52.250.47/images/D104.jpg or
http://72.52.250.47/images/D104.pdf

This is a single component modification for the D104 and K3.

For a D104 that has been butchered with a Heil HC4 element, the
G3SEK preamp circuit is more appropriate:
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/in-prac/best-of.htm#icom
Note: the K3 handles the HC4/HC5 butchered D-104 without any
preamp when the K3 is configured for FP.H and no bias. However,
the G3SEK preamp permits using the butchered D-104 with a computer
sound card "Line" input when the mic input is unusable because
of internal noise.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 11/24/2012 11:09 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Alan,
>
> This is the FET mic preamp that I promised.
>
>
>
> Alan,
>
> The 4 pin vs. 8 pin is not your only problem. For pin to pin
> connections, I suggest you consult G4WFW microphone connection database,
> it is quite helpful.
>
> The D-104 microphone element is quite high impedance, and some have
> suggested simply using a series resistor to mitigate the high vs. low
> resistance microphone impedance situation, I would suggest that a simple
> FET stage could solve the problem. The D-104 mic feeds the gate of the
> FET and the output is taken from the source (or drain). There was a web
> reference to the Heil FET amplifier that was recommended, but I have
> lost it. I have it on my hardrive and will send it to Alan in a
> separate email. -- the reflector will not accept html nor any other
> resential
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 11/20/2012 9:21 PM, Alan Slusher wrote:
>> Colleagues:
>>
>> Am looking for assistance in rewiring an Astatic D-104 Astatic microphone
>> (T-UG9 stand) for use with my K3 and K2 transceivers. The mic is
>> presently
>> wired for 4-pin Ten-Tec.
>>
>> Any assistance would be greatly, and gratefully, appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Alan V31FA
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Paul M Dunphy

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On 11/25/2012 12:09 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Last Friday I wired an amplified Astatic D-104 with a T-UP9 stand
for my K3. I assume the wire colors are standard . . . if not, then you
might have to dig further. All you need are 4 of the 6 wires in the
cable. Cut off the 4-pin DIN plug and replace it with a standard 8-PIN.
Cut the black and yellow wires off flush as they are not needed. Then
wire as follows:

White (TX audio) - Pin 1
Red (PTT) - Pin 2
Blue (PTT ground) - Pin 8
Bare braid (audio ground) - Pin 7

(See page 13 of the K3 manual for the pin locations)

This works fine on my rig. I have used an amplified D-104 on
various rigs for 27 years (on a TS-940, a TS-450, a FT-847 and an ICOM
PRO3.) I have worked all DXCC entities on SSB except one with a D-104.
Change the 9-volt battery in the base every year or so and you won't
find a better mic for DXing. They got the false reputation of being a
CB mic in the 1970s. This is not their heritage, and they have been
around in the commercial and amateur field since the 1930s . . . Astatic
stopped making them in 2002. However, they are a classic and will work
well with you K2/K3.

Just crack open the amplifier pot on the bottom enough to get a bit
of audio, and then use the rig's mic gain and compression to get the
desired audio. I never used any amplifier other than the stock one in
the T-UP9 base.

So far I have only made 3 SSB QSOs with this, and over 600 CW QSOs
in the contest this weekend. What a fantastic radio, and I've just
scratched the surface!

73, Paul VE1DX (K3 #6949)
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Paul M Dunphy

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On 11/25/2012 12:09 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

> Later D-104s manufactured for solid state rigs had an FET amp such as
> Don suggests built into the base. You turn the mic over and remove a
> few screws to see if it has the amp. It uses a 9V battery that is in
> the base as well.

The Astatic amplifier uses bipolar transistors - not FETs. There are
two issues with the stock amplifier ... it uses a 9V battery that does
not last very well and the gain level is rather high (it is very easy
to overdrive the mic input in any rig). The schematic can be found
here: http://www.nucow.com/image/D104.jpg

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 11/25/2012 11:21 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> First, may I suggest that you determine whether your D-104 already has that
> amplifier. Later D-104s manufactured for solid state rigs had an FET amp
> such as Don suggests built into the base. You turn the mic over and remove a
> few screws to see if it has the amp. It uses a 9V battery that is in the
> base as well.
>
> The earlier ones that O.T.s like Don and I remember, had no amp and were
> used with the high-impedance (50K ohm to 100K ohm) input impedance of a
> vacuum tube pre-amp.
>
> If yours has the amp, all you need do is put in a fresh battery and then
> adjust the gain pot, which you will find in the base as well, for the
> desired amount of gain.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Alan,
>
> The 4 pin vs. 8 pin is not your only problem. For pin to pin connections, I
> suggest you consult G4WFW microphone connection database, it is quite
> helpful.
>
> The D-104 microphone element is quite high impedance, and some have
> suggested simply using a series resistor to mitigate the high vs. low
> resistance microphone impedance situation, I would suggest that a simple FET
> stage could solve the problem. The D-104 mic feeds the gate of the FET and
> the output is taken from the source (or drain). There was a web reference to
> the Heil FET amplifier that was recommended, but I have lost it. I have it
> on my hardrive and will send it to Alan in a separate email. -- the
> reflector will not accept html nor any other resential
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Paul M Dunphy

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

On 11/26/2012 1:09 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> Later D-104s manufactured for solid state rigs had an FET amp such as
>> Don suggests built into the base. You turn the mic over and remove a
>> few screws to see if it has the amp. It uses a 9V battery that is in
>> the base as well.
>
> The Astatic amplifier uses bipolar transistors - not FETs. There are
> two issues with the stock amplifier ... it uses a 9V battery that does
> not last very well and the gain level is rather high (it is very easy
> to overdrive the mic input in any rig). The schematic can be found
> here: http://www.nucow.com/image/D104.jpg
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>

I would not use the term "very easy", Joe. It's possible, but I
haven't done so in 27 years with 5 rigs and 3 different D-104s, all with
the stock amplifiers in the base. I have also got up to 5 years out of
a 9-volt battery, but these days I change them every January just because.

If one is concerned, one can replace the stock amplifier with the
one(s) you described. I am not an electrical engineer (as I believe you
are), and all I can do is go by my experience and that of 2 other VE1s
who have done similar to what I have . . . and we are all three DXCC HR
on SSB. In other words, a LOT of operating with that configuration
because we found 25 years ago that nothing beat an amplified D-104 for
punching through a pileup. We haven't over driven any of our rigs. If
you want to rag-chew, then another microphone is likely better. I'm not
an audiophile, and as long as my signal doesn't splatter and isn't
distorted, I don't look for studio or FM quality audio.

I think the OP was looking for the wiring for an amplified D-104
with a T-UP9 base to a K3, not a schematic to make a 50-year old vintage
D-104 work on one. I gave him the pin-out and hookup instructions for
the model he had. Your points are valid, and are probably something
that all users of older microphones should consider when trying to match
vintage accessories to modern equipment. I am not disputing your
expertise or intentions.

73, Paul VE1DX
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Microphone Re-wiring Astatic D-104

Paul,

> I would not use the term "very easy", Joe. It's possible, but I
> haven't done so in 27 years with 5 rigs and 3 different D-104s, all
> with the stock amplifiers in the base.

You said: "Just crack open the amplifier pot on the bottom enough to
get a bit of audio" ... that's the right way to do it. I've seen (or
heard) too many people turn the pot all the way to the right and it
certainly overdrives the mic preamp in most rigs designed for dynamic
mics. Unlike the K3 that has selectable high and low gain preamps,
most rigs designed for dynamic (~5 mV RMS) mics (Yaesu, Kenwood,
Ten-Tec, etc.) have a fixed high gain preamp *before* the mic gain
pot that distorts if driven by an "amplified" (typically 200+ mV RMS)
mic. The Astatic amplifier is capable of overdriving dynamic mic inputs
if not used properly.

> I have also got up to 5 years out of a 9-volt battery, but these
> days I change them every January just because.

The reports I had received were different ... notice that the negative
battery lead runs through the PTT switch so the battery is connected
only when the rig is keyed. I suspect the reports of battery drain are
with D-104s that had been modified for VOX.

I have one D-104 with the preamp but it was bypassed (it's also my
"spare" - I need to get re-chromed one of theses days so it does
not get a lot of use). In any case, with the K3, I'd just connect
the preamp power lead to the +8V line on the mic jack and forget
about changing batteries <G>.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 11/26/2012 12:31 AM, Paul M Dunphy wrote:

> On 11/26/2012 1:09 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>>> Later D-104s manufactured for solid state rigs had an FET amp such as
>>> Don suggests built into the base. You turn the mic over and remove a
>>> few screws to see if it has the amp. It uses a 9V battery that is in
>>> the base as well.
>>
>> The Astatic amplifier uses bipolar transistors - not FETs. There are
>> two issues with the stock amplifier ... it uses a 9V battery that does
>> not last very well and the gain level is rather high (it is very easy
>> to overdrive the mic input in any rig). The schematic can be found
>> here: http://www.nucow.com/image/D104.jpg
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>
> I would not use the term "very easy", Joe. It's possible, but I
> haven't done so in 27 years with 5 rigs and 3 different D-104s, all with
> the stock amplifiers in the base. I have also got up to 5 years out of
> a 9-volt battery, but these days I change them every January just because.
>
> If one is concerned, one can replace the stock amplifier with the
> one(s) you described. I am not an electrical engineer (as I believe you
> are), and all I can do is go by my experience and that of 2 other VE1s
> who have done similar to what I have . . . and we are all three DXCC HR
> on SSB. In other words, a LOT of operating with that configuration
> because we found 25 years ago that nothing beat an amplified D-104 for
> punching through a pileup. We haven't over driven any of our rigs. If
> you want to rag-chew, then another microphone is likely better. I'm not
> an audiophile, and as long as my signal doesn't splatter and isn't
> distorted, I don't look for studio or FM quality audio.
>
> I think the OP was looking for the wiring for an amplified D-104
> with a T-UP9 base to a K3, not a schematic to make a 50-year old vintage
> D-104 work on one. I gave him the pin-out and hookup instructions for
> the model he had. Your points are valid, and are probably something
> that all users of older microphones should consider when trying to match
> vintage accessories to modern equipment. I am not disputing your
> expertise or intentions.
>
> 73, Paul VE1DX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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