Microphone Upgrade
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Does anyone have a commercial mic on their K3? I was thinking of getting a Neumann TLM-103. Is it a lot of trouble to get this condenser mic working on the K3? I have the 6 khz filter for am/ssb and for ESSB, so far I found that it goes to 4 khz. Whats involved with this?
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I use a TLM-103 for audio recording. It's truly a wonderful mic for recording vocals and acoustic guitar. But dang, Man! Ain't that a bit overkill? ;)
David, W4SMT --- On Sun, 12/14/08, -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- <[hidden email]> > Subject: [Elecraft] Microphone Upgrade > To: [hidden email] > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 9:23 PM > Does anyone have a commercial mic on their K3? I was > thinking of getting a > Neumann TLM-103. Is it a lot of trouble to get this > condenser mic working on > the K3? I have the 6 khz filter for am/ssb and for ESSB, so > far I found that > it goes to 4 khz. Whats involved with this? > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/Microphone-Upgrade-tp1656450p1656450.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-
I have a couple of these mics. The one problem you'll find imediately
is you need phantom power for them. If you use a mixer board, you likely already have phantom power on it. I use a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro but you can get a cheaper model on ebay. Or you can simply get a phantom power supply & Roland makes one & that ought to be available on Eay also. The TLM is a nice mic. Gary KA1J > Does anyone have a commercial mic on their K3? I was thinking of getting a > Neumann TLM-103. Is it a lot of trouble to get this condenser mic working on > the K3? I have the 6 khz filter for am/ssb and for ESSB, so far I found that > it goes to 4 khz. Whats involved with this? > -- > View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Microphone-Upgrade-tp1656450p1656450.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by David Fleming-2
David,
You cannot use that microphone directly on the K3 because it requires phantom voltage (24 to 48 volts across the balanced lines). You can certainly use the microphone on a mixer (Behringer 802 for example) that does provide phantom voltage and feed the output of the mixer to the K3 (perhaps through an attenuator section unless you choose the K3 line-in). 73, Don W3FPR David Fleming wrote: > I use a TLM-103 for audio recording. It's truly a wonderful mic for recording vocals and acoustic guitar. But dang, Man! Ain't that a bit overkill? ;) > > David, W4SMT > > > --- On Sun, 12/14/08, -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >> From: -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- <[hidden email]> >> Subject: [Elecraft] Microphone Upgrade >> To: [hidden email] >> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 9:23 PM >> Does anyone have a commercial mic on their K3? I was >> thinking of getting a >> Neumann TLM-103. Is it a lot of trouble to get this >> condenser mic working on >> the K3? I have the 6 khz filter for am/ssb and for ESSB, so >> far I found that >> it goes to 4 khz. Whats involved with this? >> > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:23:39 -0800 (PST), -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- wrote:
>Does anyone have a commercial mic on their K3? I was thinking of getting a >Neumann TLM-103. Is it a lot of trouble to get this condenser mic working on Yes, it is a LOT of trouble, and a complete waste of money for ham radio. First you need balanced phantom power, then a real mic transformer to connect it to the K3. There's no good reason for using a mic like this in ham radio. I'm using an EV RE16. It is ideally suited to ham radio, rejects noise in the shack, no proximity effect, no breath pops, etc. It works very well with every ham rig I've tried it with, including the K3. See http://HamInterfacing.pdf for details and a list of other great pro mics to use in your ham shack that cost a LOT less. BTW -- I own a lot of pro mics, including a pair of TLM170s. They're great for recording acoustic music, which is what I use them for. I wouldn't dream of using them in my ham shack. 73, Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/HamInterfacing.pdf
David (M6SPV) > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email] > Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:33:50 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Microphone Upgrade > > See http://HamInterfacing.pdf for details and a list of other great pro mics > to use in your ham shack that cost a LOT less. Read amazing stories to your kids on Messenger. Try it Now! _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:42:24 -0800, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
>Is that URL right? http://HamInterfacing.pdf gives me HTTP 404 errors. OOPS! http://audiosystemsgroup.com/HamInterfacing.pdf 73, Jim K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:02:20 -0500, Phil LaMarche wrote:
>How about the RE 27 on the K3? ANY variable-D mic will work very well with a K3. The RE27 is a variable-D mic and a variation on the RE20 that uses a neodymium magnet. It's a very good mic, but overkill. I own several RE20s, RE27s, and RE16s. The Ham Interfacing tutorial lists about 8 variable-D mics that are suitable, and are worth grabbing when you see them used. Dynamic mics don't wear out, so are pretty safe to buy used (unless, of course, they've been badly abused). The EV 666, the original "Buchannan hammer" (so named because Lou Burroughs, co-founder of the company, demoed its ruggedness by driving a nail with it) was one of the first variable-D mics. Both the 666 and it's lower priced cousin, the 664 are also great choices for the K3. I used to own some 666s but they got away from me. 73, Jim K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> 666, the original "Buchannan hammer" (so named because Lou
> Burroughs, co-founder of the company, demoed its ruggedness by > driving a nail with it) was one of the first variable-D mics. Both > the 666 and it's lower priced cousin, the 664 are also great > choices for the K3. As is the EV 635A and they're plentiful on the used market. http://www.electrovoice.com/documents/ev/635A_AB_EDS_Rev_D.pdf They're light, and most of the time, they do not block visibility as do some of the other popular condenser and dynamic mics. The '635A won't match the same low-end as that of these other mics, but for voice work, ~ 80 Hz represents a reasonable low-frequency roll-off point. Few amateur SSB transceivers produce adequate power at that frequency, but some folks will try to push low-end content through hyper-EQ techniques. I have yet to see a first fundamental lower than about 75 Hz on any male voice -- even from well-known voice-over personalities like Mitch Craig and Charlie Van Dyke. But that rare area in response between 75-85 Hz is what sets these guys apart from the rest of us. I've noticed that when some ESSB ops try to force audio content below the first voice fundamental with many rigs, some really strange things start happening to ALC circuitry. I would suggest to anyone (including the person who questioned the use of the TLM 103 with the K3), that they ensure adequate HP filtering when using any degree of ALC. Most ESSB ops try to avoid operating into the ALC region of any transceiver, but that's not always possible without the use of additional post-mic processing (e.g., W2IHY EQ-Plus or a finalizing processor like the Behringer DEQ2496). Many condenser mic manufacturers recognize the need for dual-purpose applications that include voice + music, and incorporate a switch-selectable 70-80Hz HP filter. So, if we deliberately keep our Tx's from producing power below ~ 80 Hz, then why go to the trouble of using a high-end condenser mic that has the propensity to create more trouble than it's worth? Sure, some of these mics look pretty damn cool but they're usually associated with bragging rights. I am more impressed with an op who understands some of these limitations and chooses a mic better matched to the application. Paul, W9AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
But The Neumann looks so cool, and the dynamic range !!!! will do sound so great ... aside from the silky smooth freq response... ;) bill At 10:29 AM 12/15/2008, Jim Brown wrote: >On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:02:20 -0500, Phil LaMarche wrote: > > >How about the RE 27 on the K3? _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:26:22 -0500, Paul Christensen wrote:
>the 664 are also great choices for the K3. >As is the EV 635A and they're plentiful on the used market. The 635A is an omnidirectional mic (picks up equally well from all directions). It would sound great in a quiet shack, but has no directivity to reject background noise. On the other hand, noise can also be rejected by working the mic very close to the mouth (like eating it). That way, the desired sound is much louder than the noise because of inverse square law (sound dies out by 6 dB for a doubling of the distance). 73, Jim K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Bill Steffey NY9H
There is another caveat with the TLM-103 others have alluded to &
that is the off axis response. If you're not using an amplifier, you'd be OK but the cardioid pattern of the 103 accompanied by the off axis response will pick up the blower noise from the amplifier quite clearly. I use a pair of 103s for my vocals and a Neumann KM84 modified for me by Klaus Heine for stringed instruments when I'm making a CD. Even the 84 has too much off axis response to be a great mic with the 103. A KM85 which has a much narrower cardioid pattern would be better suited but I wouldn't choose it as a first choice. If you are going to experiment using an existing 103 or similar mic, I would be sure to have the cardioid null be aimed directly at the amplifier to reduce that amplifier noise (but that mic will accurately reproduce the reflected noise in your shack, including the reflected blower noise). I suspect the Heil microphone sold by Elecraft would be prety close to as good as you'd get. I have the Heil HC4 element in a HM5 stand I bought from heil when I visited his studio back in 1982 and that element gets stellar reports on SSB. Gary KA1J > But The Neumann looks so cool, and the dynamic range !!!! will do > sound so great ... > aside from the silky smooth freq response... ;) > > > bill > > > At 10:29 AM 12/15/2008, Jim Brown wrote: > >On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:02:20 -0500, Phil LaMarche wrote: > > > > >How about the RE 27 on the K3? _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I also have a couple of Neumanns but I wouldn't dream of using them in my
shack for ham use. I prefer a good headset which results in a constant mouth/capsule distance, whichever way I turn my head while speaking, so the desired "noise" (my voice, that is) will always be way above ambient shack noise. Not that I need so suppress ambient noise in my shack (average SPL here is below 50dBA) but guys running amps or noisy computers could really use al the S/N they can get before it reaches the mic amp stage. That being said, a TLM103 or U87 (not to mention the old Telefunken mics) sure would look cool on the shack picture printed on your QSL card! If you *really* want to use a Neumann, I strongly suggest you look into the KSM105 which is designed for stage use. It has a built-in plop screen which is *very* effective and the capsule's response is about equal to the KM84. 73 Glenn ON4WIX/OR4W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Smith" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:03 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Microphone Upgrade > There is another caveat with the TLM-103 others have alluded to & > that is the off axis response. If you're not using an amplifier, > you'd be OK but the cardioid pattern of the 103 accompanied by the > off axis response will pick up the blower noise from the amplifier > quite clearly. > > I use a pair of 103s for my vocals and a Neumann KM84 modified for me > by Klaus Heine for stringed instruments when I'm making a CD. Even > the 84 has too much off axis response to be a great mic with the 103. > A KM85 which has a much narrower cardioid pattern would be better > suited but I wouldn't choose it as a first choice. > > If you are going to experiment using an existing 103 or similar mic, > I would be sure to have the cardioid null be aimed directly at the > amplifier to reduce that amplifier noise (but that mic will > accurately reproduce the reflected noise in your shack, including the > reflected blower noise). > > I suspect the Heil microphone sold by Elecraft would be prety close > to as good as you'd get. I have the Heil HC4 element in a HM5 stand I > bought from heil when I visited his studio back in 1982 and that > element gets stellar reports on SSB. > > Gary > KA1J > >> But The Neumann looks so cool, and the dynamic range !!!! will do >> sound so great ... >> aside from the silky smooth freq response... ;) >> >> >> bill >> >> >> At 10:29 AM 12/15/2008, Jim Brown wrote: >> >On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:02:20 -0500, Phil LaMarche wrote: >> > >> > >How about the RE 27 on the K3? > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1849 - Release Date: 15/12/2008 9:01 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
> The 635A is an omnidirectional mic (picks up equally well from all
> directions). It would sound great in a quiet shack, but has no > directivity to reject background noise. Excellent point, Jim. For many shacks, that can make a good deal of difference -- and if we were to bullet-point of list of mic attributes in order of importance, directivity would rank well ahead of frequency response. EV's choice in making the '635A an omni probably had a lot to do with its extensive use as a "reporter" type of mic where you would want something more forgiving off-axis when you're pushing the mic back-and-forth during a news or sports interview. Paul, W9AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: [Elecraft] Microphone Upgrade
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Jim,
Thanks for the information on the mic you are using. Greg N3TU Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:34:32 -0800 From: [hidden email] To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Microphone Upgrade On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:23:39 -0800 (PST), -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- wrote: >Does anyone have a commercial mic on their K3? I was thinking of getting a >Neumann TLM-103. Is it a lot of trouble to get this condenser mic working on Yes, it is a LOT of trouble, and a complete waste of money for ham radio. First you need balanced phantom power, then a real mic transformer to connect it to the K3. There's no good reason for using a mic like this in ham radio. I'm using an EV RE16. It is ideally suited to ham radio, rejects noise in the shack, no proximity effect, no breath pops, etc. It works very well with every ham rig I've tried it with, including the K3. See http://HamInterfacing.pdf for details and a list of other great pro mics to use in your ham shack that cost a LOT less. BTW -- I own a lot of pro mics, including a pair of TLM170s. They're great for recording acoustic music, which is what I use them for. I wouldn't dream of using them in my ham shack. 73, Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@... You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
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