Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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Microphone connections for K3 #1540
 
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Hello K3 gurus! I received my factory built K3 this past week, and yesterday received my K2 Heil Pro-set and some Anderson Powerpole connectors... Last night I wired up a serial line splitter so I could connect my K3's serial port to the same serial cable that goes to my sequencer (that will switch any of my XMTRS into XMIT)and CIV level converter (for my IC746). So it looks like I am getting close to being able to make some noise with it ;-) Currently, I run my Heil #5 boom mic (along with the LINE OUTPUT from my computer) through a W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate (and then through interrupt relays) before they go to the Mic input of the IC746. With the K2 Pro-set from Elecraft, I received a resistor and a bunch of jumper connectors with an instruction sheet on modifications I need to make to the K3 so it will be able to work with the K2 Pro-set. My question is this: If I use the current microphone/audio in arrangement, do I still have to modify the K3 for the K2? If I install all the jumpers and resistor into the K3, will I be prevented from using the W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate in front of the K3? Will I harm anything by just trying different setups the way the K3 came from the factory? MNI TNX for any guidance or suggestions you may be able to provide. VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:32:58 +0000, LANCE COLLISTER wrote:
>will I be prevented from using the W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate >in front of the K3? Why would you want to? Sell it on EBay! The K3 includes an EXCELLENT audio equalizer that does everything you need and is quite easy to adjust. 73, Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance
Hi Lance,
The resistor and jumper blocks included with the headset are only for the K2. The K3 requires no mods to use the Proset-K2 (or the MH2.) Just turn on the miic bias in the K3 menu and you are good to go. 73, Eric WA6HHQ _..._ -----Original Message----- From: LANCE COLLISTER <[hidden email]> Date: Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 7:32 am Subject: [Elecraft] Microphone connections for K3 #1540 To: <[hidden email]> Hello K3 gurus! I received my factory built K3 this past week, and yesterday received my K2 Heil Pro-set and some Anderson Powerpole connectors... Last night I wired up a serial line splitter so I could connect my K3's serial port to the same serial cable that goes to my sequencer (that will switch any of my XMTRS into XMIT)and CIV level converter (for my IC746). So it looks like I am getting close to being able to make some noise with it ;-) Currently, I run my Heil #5 boom mic (along with the LINE OUTPUT from my computer) through a W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate (and then through interrupt relays) before they go to the Mic input of the IC746. With the K2 Pro-set from Elecraft, I received a resistor and a bunch of jumper connectors with an instruction sheet on modifications I need to make to the K3 so it will be able to work with the K2 Pro-set. My question is this: If I use the current microphone/audio in arrangement, do I still have to modify the K3 for the K2? If I install all the jumpers and resistor into the K3, will I be prevented from using the W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate in front of the K3? Will I harm anything by just trying different setups the way the K3 came from the factory? MNI TNX for any guidance or suggestions you may be able to provide. VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance
Jim Brown wrote: > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:32:58 +0000, LANCE COLLISTER wrote: > >> will I be prevented from using the W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate >> in front of the K3? > > Why would you want to? Sell it on EBay! The K3 includes an EXCELLENT > audio equalizer that does everything you need and is quite easy to > adjust. > > 73, > > Jim Brown K9YC > > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > try it out this evening after my 6m moonbounce activities today. In answer to Jim's question, the reason for the W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate is because I still can't get rid of my IC746, since the K3 does not work on 2m :-( Furthermore, just because I have a K3 doesn't mean I only operate QRP....my homebrew amplifiers here sound like a jet plane taking off, and the Noise Gate prevents that annoying loud background noise from being sent out over the air when I am on SSB. Hmmmmm.....come to think of it, that might be something for Elecraft to think about adding into a future firmware update....I'll bet they could easily incorporate it into the audio circuit controls just like they do for VOX ;-) GL and VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance
KEEP THE W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate!!!!! DO NOT SELL IT ON
EBAY!!! I'm sure Elecraft will have a Noise Gate built into a K3's firmware some day, but a noise gate is a valuable tool to knock down in-shack background noise (like amps, fans, other ops, etc.). The Audio Equalizer built into the W2IHY unit is less important now that the K3 has one, but it still gives you added flexibility in adjusting levels beyond what the K3's built in equalizer gives you. I use my W2IHY Noise Gate and Equalizer with my K3 and it certainly makes a cleaner signal than one without a noise gate. If your shack is perfectly quite, you never turn on the COMP or you never breathe while in a QSO, you don't need a noise gate and eBay is a good place for it. My two cents from Texas, Bob K5WA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >will I be prevented from using the W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate >in front of the K3? Why would you want to? Sell it on EBay! The K3 includes an EXCELLENT audio equalizer that does everything you need and is quite easy to adjust. 73, Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance
Lance,
Those jumpers and the resistor that you received with your Elecraft ProSet K2 are to be used with the *K2*, not with the K3! No modificaions are needed for your K3 - just the proper menu settings. For the K3, take your pick of plugging the mic and headphone plugs into the rear panel connectors or use the 8 pin adapter and plug into the K3 front panel. Whichever you use (front panel or rear panel) enter the K3 menu and set the MIC SEL to either FP or RP, set the level to Low, and set the bias ON. Adjust the mic gain to somewhere between 35 and 40 and give it a try - you may have to adjust the mic gain a bit, but it should work just fine. I don't know how the equalizers and other equipment interface - that is something for you to take up with the manufacturer of each piece of equipment - if they support the K3 and the Elecraft ProSet K2. Notice that referring to that mic and headset as a *Heil* will lead to confusion. The ProSet K2 has an electret element and needs a bias supply, the Heil ProSet (not the K2) uses a dynamic element and should not have bias applied (it sounds 'funny' if bias is turned on). The similarity of the names coupled with the fact that the Elecraft ProSet K2 also has the Heil name on it usually leads to much confusion when questions are asked about a "ProSet" without clarifying which one it is. 73, Don W3FPR LANCE COLLISTER wrote: > Hello K3 gurus! > > I received my factory built K3 this past week, and yesterday received my K2 Heil > Pro-set and some Anderson Powerpole connectors... Last night I wired up a serial > line splitter so I could connect my K3's serial port to the same serial cable that > goes to my sequencer (that will switch any of my XMTRS into XMIT)and CIV level > converter (for my IC746). So it looks like I am getting close to being able to make > some noise with it ;-) > > Currently, I run my Heil #5 boom mic (along with the LINE OUTPUT from my computer) > through a W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate (and then through interrupt relays) > before they go to the Mic input of the IC746. With the K2 Pro-set from Elecraft, I > received a resistor and a bunch of jumper connectors with an instruction sheet on > modifications I need to make to the K3 so it will be able to work with the K2 Pro-set. > > My question is this: If I use the current microphone/audio in arrangement, do I > still have to modify the K3 for the K2? If I install all the jumpers and resistor > into the K3, will I be prevented from using the W2IHY Audio Equalizer and Noise Gate > in front of the K3? Will I harm anything by just trying different setups the way the > K3 came from the factory? > > MNI TNX for any guidance or suggestions you may be able to provide. VY 73, Lance > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance
Hello Bob!
> I'm sure Elecraft will have a Noise Gate built into a K3's firmware some day, but a noise gate is a valuable tool An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already :-) 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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I give up. What is a "downward expander"? It that the same as a
compressor? Or is it something that has a "crossover point" that has one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us OFs. - Jim, KL7CC Lyle Johnson wrote: > > An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware > in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already > > _ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by KK7P
>> I'm sure Elecraft will have a Noise Gate built into a K3's firmware
>> some day, but a noise gate is a valuable tool > > An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware > in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already > :-) Further to this, I find using VOX with a short timeout (0.3 sec) provides an "almost" gate, and allows fast voice break in. It also does not generate any distortion of the low-amplitude portions of the transmit audio that a downward expander inherently creates. With the fast attack action of the K3 VOX, such short hold times are practical. Enjoy! Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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In reply to this post by Jim Wiley-2
google is a wonderful tool... http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/temas/dynamics-processors-noisegates_en.shtml "Downward expander. This type of unit works like the opposite of a compressor, and provides a "ratio" control or attenuation slope. That way the signal is attenuated more highly the lower the signal level is. In fact, if the threshold is set high enough, we could "expand" the dynamics of the signal, increasing its dynamic range, though this is not normally done. The attenuation ratio works in an equivalent way to that of the compressor, defining the amount of a attenuation (compression) that is applied to the signal. These ratios are expressed in dB, so that, for example, 1:6, means a signal that is 1 dB below the threshold will get reduced to 6 dB below it, while a signal 3 dB below the threshold will get reduced to 18 dB below it. Likewise, a 1:3 (one to three) means a signal 1 dB below the threshold will be attenuated 2 dB (as the level will go from -1 dB to -3 dB; we use a negative sign as these levels are below the threshold, which is the 0 dB reference in this case). With a ratio of 1:10 and higher, the expander is considered to work as a pure noise gate, though an ideal gate would have a theoretical ratio of 1:infinity (any level below the threshold would be totally muted). " ~Iain Jim Wiley wrote on 09/ 1/08 11:16 AM: > I give up. What is a "downward expander"? It that the same as a > compressor? Or is it something that has a "crossover point" that has > one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on > the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us > OFs. > > - Jim, KL7CC > > > > Lyle Johnson wrote: >> >> An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware >> in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already >> >> _ > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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OK, I understand now. The Gates company (of long ago broadcast
equipment fame) made a device they called the "Level Devil" - which worked this way. I had one, and it worked wonders in improving false vox trips. The Level Devil served as a downward expander for signals less than the crossover point, and as a compressor for signals above the threshold. Marvelous gadget - I wish I still had one. - Jim, KL7CC Iain MacDonnell - K6IAM wrote: > > google is a wonderful tool... > > http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/temas/dynamics-processors-noisegates_en.shtml > > > "Downward expander. This type of unit works like the opposite of a > compressor, and provides a "ratio" control or attenuation slope. That > way the signal is attenuated more highly the lower the signal level > is. In fact, if the threshold is set high enough, we could "expand" > the dynamics of the signal, increasing its dynamic range, though this > is not normally done. The attenuation ratio works in an equivalent way > to that of the compressor, defining the amount of a attenuation > (compression) that is applied to the signal. These ratios are > expressed in dB, so that, for example, 1:6, means a signal that is 1 > dB below the threshold will get reduced to 6 dB below it, while a > signal 3 dB below the threshold will get reduced to 18 dB below it. > Likewise, a 1:3 (one to three) means a signal 1 dB below the threshold > will be attenuated 2 dB (as the level will go from -1 dB to -3 dB; we > use a negative sign as these levels are below the threshold, which is > the 0 dB reference in this case). With a ratio of 1:10 and higher, the > expander is considered to work as a pure noise gate, though an ideal > gate would have a theoretical ratio of 1:infinity (any level below the > threshold would be totally muted). " > > ~Iain > > > > > Jim Wiley wrote on 09/ 1/08 11:16 AM: >> I give up. What is a "downward expander"? It that the same as a >> compressor? Or is it something that has a "crossover point" that >> has one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite >> action on the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply >> amazing to us OFs. >> >> - Jim, KL7CC >> >> >> >> Lyle Johnson wrote: >>> >>> An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 >>> firmware in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited >>> testing already >>> >>> _ >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: >> http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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In reply to this post by Jim Wiley-2
Jim, see also the paragraph about " Noise Gating" at the end of the page :
http://www.dxatlas.com/VShaper/ 73 to all Geoff G3UCK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Wiley" <[hidden email]> To: "Lyle Johnson" <[hidden email]> Cc: "'Elecraft Group'" <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540 >I give up. What is a "downward expander"? It that the same as a >compressor? Or is it something that has a "crossover point" that has one >action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on the other >side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us OFs. > > - Jim, KL7CC > > > > Lyle Johnson wrote: >> >> An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware in >> the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already >> >> _ > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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In reply to this post by W7GJ, Lance
This is GREAT NEWS for those of us who use noisy amplifiers! This development will greatly simplify my own process of trying to integrate my K3 into the station here, since I can leave the current microphone and noise gate setup for the IC746 largely intact, and just use the new K2 Pro-Set directly into the K3 :-) I look forward to trying out a noise gate function in a future firmware release! VY 73, Lance Lyle Johnson wrote: > Hello Bob! > >> I'm sure Elecraft will have a Noise Gate built into a K3's firmware >> some day, but a noise gate is a valuable tool > > An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware > in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already > :-) > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:03:56 +0000, LANCE COLLISTER wrote:
>This is GREAT NEWS for those of us who use noisy amplifiers! There are other solutions. First, don't turn the mic gain up so high, or use so much processing(compression). 10 dB of processing is enough -- more tends to sound bad. Second, roll off the low end octaves that contribute nothing to communications. In the K3, the 50 Hz and 100 Hz filters should be all the way down. Third, use sound absorbing materials in your shack to reduce the "liveness" that amplifies the noise (and makes it difficult to copy on your speaker). Some absorption on the surfaces around the noisy fans should have a high priority. Fourth, a directional mic will reject a lot of noise. The Appendix on Audio For Ham Radio that is part of my RFI Tutorial lists a bunch of good directional mics. http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf Downward expansion can be a problem solver if done well, but don't hold out a lot of hope for downward expansion in DSP to solve your problem. It is notoriously difficult to get DSP to sound good with dynamics processing. 73, Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540
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In reply to this post by Jim Wiley-2
You learn something new all the time on this reflector. I previously
thought a "downward expander" was a recession fighting scheme employed by the Federal Reserve. I guess not Bruce - W8FU -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Wiley Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:16 PM To: Lyle Johnson Cc: 'Elecraft Group' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Microphone connections for K3 #1540 I give up. What is a "downward expander"? It that the same as a compressor? Or is it something that has a "crossover point" that has one action on one side of the crossover, and the opposite action on the other side? All these newfangled terms are simply amazing to us OFs. - Jim, KL7CC Lyle Johnson wrote: > > An experimental Downward Expander will be available in the K3 firmware > in the near future. It has been undergoing some limited testing already > > _ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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