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Musings on a K4

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Joseph Trombino, Jr

Musings on a K4

Howdy Gang:

After the introduction to the new KX3, I've been wondering if Elecraft is also giving us a look into a future K4 receiver architecture.

Will they go with a larger size transceiver based on SDR/QSD ala the KX3?? How about a P3 integrated into the K4???

Of course, dual receivers would be included, antenna tuner, etc.

How about 160M-1.2ghz coverage with satellite capability to capture that market too???

Fun thinking about what the future holds for us fortunate Elecraft fans.

I wonder if I am too far off target??? (grin)....what do you think??

73, Joe W2KJ
I QRP, therefore I am

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Able2fly

Musings on a K4 (K2.5 ?)

What would interest me would be a K2.5

Something between the K2 and K3 with the emphasis on intuitive operation and ease of use.

The Ten Tec Eagle could be a crude example of what I mean, but with Elecraft MOJO...

73, Bill K3UJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Trombino, Jr <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2011 4:17 pm
Subject: [Elecraft] Musings on a K4

Howdy Gang:
After the introduction to the new KX3, I've been wondering if Elecraft is also
iving us a look into a future K4 receiver architecture.
Will they go with a larger size transceiver based on SDR/QSD ala the KX3?? How
bout a P3 integrated into the K4???
Of course, dual receivers would be included, antenna tuner, etc.
How about 160M-1.2ghz coverage with satellite capability to capture that market
oo???
Fun thinking about what the future holds for us fortunate Elecraft fans.
I wonder if I am too far off target??? (grin)....what do you think??
73, Joe W2KJ
I QRP, therefore I am

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Musings on a K4

In reply to this post by Joseph Trombino, Jr

> Will they go with a larger size transceiver based on SDR/QSD ala the
> KX3?

SDR/QSD would clearly be a step backward compared to the K3. Now, if
you're talking about A-D "at the antenna" and a 120 dB dynamic range
at all signal spacing from 50 Hz to 10 MHz, I'm all for it. However,
the blocking issues with audio (I/Q) based SDR are well documented and
are not compatible with high receiver performance in an environment
with many signals/strong signals.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/25/2011 4:17 PM, Joseph Trombino, Jr wrote:

> Howdy Gang:
>
> After the introduction to the new KX3, I've been wondering if Elecraft is also giving us a look into a future K4 receiver architecture.
>
> Will they go with a larger size transceiver based on SDR/QSD ala the KX3?? How about a P3 integrated into the K4???
>
> Of course, dual receivers would be included, antenna tuner, etc.
>
> How about 160M-1.2ghz coverage with satellite capability to capture that market too???
>
> Fun thinking about what the future holds for us fortunate Elecraft fans.
>
> I wonder if I am too far off target??? (grin)....what do you think??
>
> 73, Joe W2KJ
> I QRP, therefore I am
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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David Dietrich

Re: Musings on a K4

In reply to this post by Joseph Trombino, Jr

I know that many would want to see a "do everything" K4. However, something like that could price it beyond the reach of most. Also, keeping a rig strictly HF keeps things simple and does not compromise performance.

Just my $0.02 for what it's worth.

73,

David
KC9EHQ

Sent from my iPod
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Nate Bargmann

Re: Musings on a K4

* On 2011 25 Jul 20:36 -0500, David Dietrich wrote:
> I know that many would want to see a "do everything" K4. However, something like that could price it beyond the reach of most. Also, keeping a rig strictly HF keeps things simple and does not compromise performance.

I'm now of the opposite opinion. Should there ever be a K4 I would hope
for a 2m/70cm rig with the ability to choose modules of 222 MHz, 1.2
GHz, etc. with comparable specs to the K3 and full duplex capable for
satellite work. Elecraft has HF through 6m covered (yes, I'm aware of
the 2m module which is a "bridge" between the Hfer who wants VHF
capability in the K3 and the hard core denizen of the upper spectrum who
would go for the K4), IMO, especially with the KX3 entering the pipeline
soon. It's time for a superb rig for the upper part of the spectrum.

73, de Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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wayne burdick

Re: Musings on a K4

Administrator

If there's ever a K4, it'll be a game-changer, or we won't bother.

As of right now we're very happy with the K3, thank you :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jul 25, 2011, at 7:08 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> * On 2011 25 Jul 20:36 -0500, David Dietrich wrote:
>> I know that many would want to see a "do everything" K4. However,
>> something like that could price it beyond the reach of most. Also,
>> keeping a rig strictly HF keeps things simple and does not
>> compromise performance.
>
> I'm now of the opposite opinion. Should there ever be a K4 I would
> hope
> for a 2m/70cm rig with the ability to choose modules of 222 MHz, 1.2
> GHz, etc. with comparable specs to the K3 and full duplex capable for
> satellite work. Elecraft has HF through 6m covered (yes, I'm aware of
> the 2m module which is a "bridge" between the Hfer who wants VHF
> capability in the K3 and the hard core denizen of the upper spectrum
> who
> would go for the K4), IMO, especially with the KX3 entering the
> pipeline
> soon. It's time for a superb rig for the upper part of the spectrum.
>
> 73, de Nate >>
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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k5oai

Re: Musings on a K4

satisfying the unsatisfiable
seems like a pretty thankless job sometimes doesn't it?

GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan

On 7/25/2011 9:34 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> If there's ever a K4, it'll be a game-changer, or we won't bother.
>
> As of right now we're very happy with the K3, thank you :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Jul 25, 2011, at 7:08 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
>> * On 2011 25 Jul 20:36 -0500, David Dietrich wrote:
>>> I know that many would want to see a "do everything" K4. However,
>>> something like that could price it beyond the reach of most. Also,
>>> keeping a rig strictly HF keeps things simple and does not
>>> compromise performance.
>>
>> I'm now of the opposite opinion. Should there ever be a K4 I would
>> hope
>> for a 2m/70cm rig with the ability to choose modules of 222 MHz, 1.2
>> GHz, etc. with comparable specs to the K3 and full duplex capable for
>> satellite work. Elecraft has HF through 6m covered (yes, I'm aware of
>> the 2m module which is a "bridge" between the Hfer who wants VHF
>> capability in the K3 and the hard core denizen of the upper spectrum
>> who
>> would go for the K4), IMO, especially with the KX3 entering the
>> pipeline
>> soon. It's time for a superb rig for the upper part of the spectrum.
>>
>> 73, de Nate>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
>> possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
>>
>> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Ken Alexander-2

Re: Musings on a K4

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Uh huh! That's what I thought just before you dropped the KX3 bomb on
us! :-)

73,

Ken Alexander
VE3HLS

On 25/07/2011 10:34 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> If there's ever a K4, it'll be a game-changer, or we won't bother.
>
> As of right now we're very happy with the K3, thank you :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Jul 25, 2011, at 7:08 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
>> * On 2011 25 Jul 20:36 -0500, David Dietrich wrote:
>>> I know that many would want to see a "do everything" K4. However,
>>> something like that could price it beyond the reach of most. Also,
>>> keeping a rig strictly HF keeps things simple and does not
>>> compromise performance.
>> I'm now of the opposite opinion. Should there ever be a K4 I would
>> hope
>> for a 2m/70cm rig with the ability to choose modules of 222 MHz, 1.2
>> GHz, etc. with comparable specs to the K3 and full duplex capable for
>> satellite work. Elecraft has HF through 6m covered (yes, I'm aware of
>> the 2m module which is a "bridge" between the Hfer who wants VHF
>> capability in the K3 and the hard core denizen of the upper spectrum
>> who
>> would go for the K4), IMO, especially with the KX3 entering the
>> pipeline
>> soon. It's time for a superb rig for the upper part of the spectrum.
>>
>> 73, de Nate>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
>> possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
>>
>> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

Stephen G4SJP

Re: Musings on a K4

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

On 26 July 2011 03:34, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If there's ever a K4, it'll be a game-changer, or we won't bother.
>
> As of right now we're very happy with the K3, thank you :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>

My bank manager has just heaved a sigh of relief!

73, Stephen G4SJP
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Edward R Cole

Re: Musings on a K4

In reply to this post by Joseph Trombino, Jr

Yes, a game changer:

Small 2x2x3 inch block containing an organic computer with 78-GHz
waveguide flange with something like radiating fiberoptic interface
to a set of eyeglasses with LCD display and direct aural nerve
docking interface so one would only need to think the words which
would be converted into Quantum-modulation. Question is will it be
ham radio? oooweee beam me up!

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================

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Chris W7CTH

K4

In reply to this post by Joseph Trombino, Jr

I think that if Elecaft made a K4 that will do what the Kenwood radios will do.(UHF,VHF,1.2,SAT and so on) This will take away from what the K3 is all about.

Just my input..
Chris W7CTH
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n8ysz

Re: K4

A purpose built VHF/UHF/uWave and Satellite focused rig would be great
- small section of the market, likely, but would be great for those of
us who are interested there.

73,
N8YSZ.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Chris Hembree <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think that if Elecaft made a K4 that will do what the Kenwood radios will do.(UHF,VHF,1.2,SAT and so on) This will take away from what the K3 is all about.
>
> Just my input..
> Chris W7CTH

--
Dan Brown
[hidden email]
http://www.brauhaus.org
http://www.dc-beer.org
http://photos.brauhaus.org
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Gary Gregory

Re: Musings on a K4

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Ed,

The LCD display would need to be holographic in nature in keeping with the
'Game Changer' mantra.

Grin

Gary

On 26 July 2011 19:18, Edward R. Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, a game changer:
>
> Small 2x2x3 inch block containing an organic computer with 78-GHz
> waveguide flange with something like radiating fiberoptic interface
> to a set of eyeglasses with LCD display and direct aural nerve
> docking interface so one would only need to think the words which
> would be converted into Quantum-modulation. Question is will it be
> ham radio? oooweee beam me up!
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> ======================================
> BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> ======================================
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

--

VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679, KPA-500 #018
Living the dream!!!
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Craig Smith

K4 musings

In reply to this post by Joseph Trombino, Jr

As long as we are in "dream mode", here's mine:

160 thru 10 meters
CW only
200 W output
Multi-color display
Built in power supply
Built in "P3" processing functionality but only VGA connector for external
display
Internal and remote external tuner options

73 Craig AC0DS

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w7aqk

Re: Musings on a K4

In reply to this post by Joseph Trombino, Jr

K3UJ's hypohetical musings on something like a "K2.5" are bound to be
answered eventually in some form or fashion by the folks at Elecraft. I
have no idea if that is precisely where they will focus, but one thing I
know for sure--Wayne and Eric are not the least bit lacking in imagination!
That fact has been proven several times, and most recently with the
announcement of the KX3. Half the fun of being an Elecraft devotee is
staying tuned in to see what they will come up with next. They have
judiciously added talent to the team to the point that I doubt there is much
they couldn't produce, provided it made sense to do it. The trick is to
keep all this talent effectively busy, so I strongly suspect there are a
number of things on the drawing board right now. We just have to wait and
see what's next. It's kind of like Christmas, except it can come at any
time!

Dave W7AQK

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Alan Bloom

Re: Musings on a K4

On Tue, 2011-07-26 at 07:17 -0700, David Yarnes wrote:
> ... They have
> judiciously added talent to the team to the point that I doubt there is much
> they couldn't produce, provided it made sense to do it. The trick is to
> keep all this talent effectively busy, ...

They do an excellent job of that!

Alan N1AL

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Andy McMullin

Re: K4

In reply to this post by n8ysz

I concur there. Wouldn't take the K3 market, but rather open a new one that appears to be not as well supplied. I'd go for it.

--
sent whilst mobile;
Andy, G8TQH

On 26 Jul 2011, at 14:08, Daniel Brown wrote:

> A purpose built VHF/UHF/uWave and Satellite focused rig would be great
> - small section of the market, likely, but would be great for those of
> us who are interested there.
>
> 73,
> N8YSZ.
>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Chris Hembree <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I think that if Elecaft made a K4 that will do what the Kenwood radios will do.(UHF,VHF,1.2,SAT and so on) This will take away from what the K3 is all about.
>>
>> Just my input..
>> Chris W7CTH
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Brown
> [hidden email]
> http://www.brauhaus.org
> http://www.dc-beer.org
> http://photos.brauhaus.org
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K6LMP

Re: K4

There once was sold an excellent rig (for its day) sold by Yaesu called the FT-736r. It was designed and marketed primarily for satellite work, but became very popular among VHF-UHF contesters. In fact, I know of quite few who still use it, but they are looking for alternatives, since the '736 is becoming unreliable with age.

The FT-736r had internal slot for four band-specific modules (transverters); the owner could mix and match among 6 meter, 2 meter, 220, 440, and 1296 mhz SSB. The modules were rated for 25 watts output through 220 mHz and 20 watts on 440 and above. Its receiver was not very impressive compared with what you can get with a K3 and transverters, but those who own it love it.

Given the physical size and relatively high running temp of existing Elecraft transverters, my guess is that they'd have to be redesigned for slightly less power output to fit within the K3 case on a K3-based motherboard. But 16 watts out from a transverter module into an amplifier with 15 db gain would yield 500 watts out, and that's plenty for the uses such a rig would be put to. Marry a "K4" to a purpose-built VHF/UHF amplifier (akin to the KPA-500) and you would have a killer rig for VHF-UHF contesting.

As for price, take a look at the eHam reviews of the FT-736r. The basic unit sells today for more than $500, even though decades old, and the "scarce" 222 mhz and 1296 mHz modules sometimes fetch $1,000 on eBay. People who are into satellite work and VHF/UHF contesting would fight for a place in line to buy such a rig, and for many it would be a bargain compared with trying to set up a complete FT-736r. If space allowed, five bands would be even better, but since most VHF/UHF contesters use a separate rig for 6 meters anyway, you could get by with four, covering 2m, 1.25 m, 70 cm, and 23 cm bands. You can easily spend $3k or $4k to put together a comparably equipped FT-736, which suggests that the market would accept a price of up to $5k for a new and very high-quality rig such as the hypothetical K4.

And it absolutely would not pirate sales from the K3, although it would put a dent in sales of transverters. Please don't think that's a reason for not producing such a radio. If Elecraft followed that philosophy we'd not have the K3 or KX3.

I would sell my car and walk 25 miles to work to get a "K4".

Lew K6LMP

> On 26 Jul 2011, at 14:08, Daniel Brown wrote:
>
>> A purpose built VHF/UHF/uWave and Satellite focused rig would be great
>> - small section of the market, likely, but would be great for those of
>> us who are interested there.
>>
>> 73,
>> N8YSZ.

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Gary Gregory

Re: K4

Lew,

Although I am HF only, you put a very strong case for a K4 as you describe.
I wonder now if the minds at elecraft are working on a similar
scheme....Hmmmmmm

Gary

On 27 July 2011 10:05, Lew Phelps K6LMP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There once was sold an excellent rig (for its day) sold by Yaesu called the
> FT-736r. It was designed and marketed primarily for satellite work, but
> became very popular among VHF-UHF contesters. In fact, I know of quite few
> who still use it, but they are looking for alternatives, since the '736 is
> becoming unreliable with age.
>
> The FT-736r had internal slot for four band-specific modules
> (transverters); the owner could mix and match among 6 meter, 2 meter, 220,
> 440, and 1296 mhz SSB. The modules were rated for 25 watts output through
> 220 mHz and 20 watts on 440 and above. Its receiver was not very impressive
> compared with what you can get with a K3 and transverters, but those who own
> it love it.
>
> Given the physical size and relatively high running temp of existing
> Elecraft transverters, my guess is that they'd have to be redesigned for
> slightly less power output to fit within the K3 case on a K3-based
> motherboard. But 16 watts out from a transverter module into an amplifier
> with 15 db gain would yield 500 watts out, and that's plenty for the uses
> such a rig would be put to. Marry a "K4" to a purpose-built VHF/UHF
> amplifier (akin to the KPA-500) and you would have a killer rig for VHF-UHF
> contesting.
>
> As for price, take a look at the eHam reviews of the FT-736r. The basic
> unit sells today for more than $500, even though decades old, and the
> "scarce" 222 mhz and 1296 mHz modules sometimes fetch $1,000 on eBay. People
> who are into satellite work and VHF/UHF contesting would fight for a place
> in line to buy such a rig, and for many it would be a bargain compared with
> trying to set up a complete FT-736r. If space allowed, five bands would be
> even better, but since most VHF/UHF contesters use a separate rig for 6
> meters anyway, you could get by with four, covering 2m, 1.25 m, 70 cm, and
> 23 cm bands. You can easily spend $3k or $4k to put together a comparably
> equipped FT-736, which suggests that the market would accept a price of up
> to $5k for a new and very high-quality rig such as the hypothetical K4.
>
> And it absolutely would not pirate sales from the K3, although it would put
> a dent in sales of transverters. Please don't think that's a reason for not
> producing such a radio. If Elecraft followed that philosophy we'd not have
> the K3 or KX3.
>
>
> I would sell my car and walk 25 miles to work to get a "K4".
>
> Lew K6LMP
>
>
> > On 26 Jul 2011, at 14:08, Daniel Brown wrote:
> >
> >> A purpose built VHF/UHF/uWave and Satellite focused rig would be great
> >> - small section of the market, likely, but would be great for those of
> >> us who are interested there.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> N8YSZ.
>
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Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA

Re: K4

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