Musings on a "K4"

[N7UN]

"The TS-990 still has no test results released yet and I personally have no
use for 130+ knobs and buttons that may only be used once during setup for
many."

Just for concept discussion, it would be really interesting to use a
TFT LCD 5" hi-res color touch screen as part of a new front panel for
the K3.  Just a new front panel interface with a lot of the "knob"
functions accessible as a touch menu items on the screen.

Because of the hi-volume use of this technology in the cellphone
industry, prices should be low, and software development libraries
mature.

This would then open up a significant advance in the GUI and features
available in the radio, like maybe a limited bandscope.

I have no idea if this is code-compatible with the existing K3?   But
nonetheless fun to dream about.....

Guy/N7UN

--
Guy/N7UN
http://www.n7un.com
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[N0AZZ]

Guy

I have one of the new Alpha 4040 auto tuners on order and it has one of the
touch screens on it with a lot that it controls. I do mean a lot of
different things including a smith chart display. I am holding my opinion on
this touch screen till I finally receive it. My Smartphone's have had them
for a long time your right about the prices I would think.

As most of you know the new soon to be released Icom 7100 has a touch screen
on it, it is the replacement for the IC-7000 and I'm going to have one if
they are ever released.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guy
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:54 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Musings on a "K4"

"The TS-990 still has no test results released yet and I personally have no
use for 130+ knobs and buttons that may only be used once during setup for
many."

Just for concept discussion, it would be really interesting to use a TFT LCD
5" hi-res color touch screen as part of a new front panel for the K3.  Just
a new front panel interface with a lot of the "knob"
functions accessible as a touch menu items on the screen.

Because of the hi-volume use of this technology in the cellphone industry,
prices should be low, and software development libraries mature.

This would then open up a significant advance in the GUI and features
available in the radio, like maybe a limited bandscope.

I have no idea if this is code-compatible with the existing K3?   But
nonetheless fun to dream about.....

Guy/N7UN

--
Guy/N7UN
http://www.n7un.com
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[Jim Brown-10]

On 5/23/2013 7:20 AM, Fred Smith wrote:
>   Icom 7100 has a touch screen
> on it, it is the replacement for the IC-7000

I can't imagine why that would interest anyone -- the 7000 has a user
interface that only the programmer's mother could love. VERY awkward to
use, and it's essentially a cheapie radio with cheapie radio performance.

73, Jim K9YC
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[Dick Dickinson]

How about a 8" - 10" tablet-type interface with significant touch areas that
are user selectable / programmable and other areas dedicated for pan
display, typical display readout?

 

Dick - KA5KKT

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Just for concept discussion, it would be really interesting to use a

TFT LCD 5" hi-res color touch screen as part of a new front panel for

the K3.  Just a new front panel interface with a lot of the "knob"

functions accessible as a touch menu items on the screen.

 

Guy/N7UN

 

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[Richard-3]

How about a K4/KX4 built in a format like an iMac
(computer/monitor/all-in-one) or iPad with apps that provide needed user
interface, and external I/O for amps, P4, keyboard (wireless?) and
such.  Would be fun with an N1MM app and general logger.  Internet
interface for uploading to LoTW, ClubLog, etc.

Rich
NU6T

On 5/23/2013 8:08 AM, Edward Dickinson III wrote:

> How about a 8" - 10" tablet-type interface with significant touch areas that
> are user selectable / programmable and other areas dedicated for pan
> display, typical display readout?
>
>  
>
> Dick - KA5KKT
>
>  
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  
>
> Just for concept discussion, it would be really interesting to use a
>
> TFT LCD 5" hi-res color touch screen as part of a new front panel for
>
> the K3.  Just a new front panel interface with a lot of the "knob"
>
> functions accessible as a touch menu items on the screen.
>
>  
>
> Guy/N7UN
>
>  
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[Tim Heasman]

Hi All,

There is a Pert Hart full review in the June 2013 RadCom.

73
Tim
gm4lmh

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[WB4SON]

Personally, I'd be happy if I could upgrade my K3 to get rid of all the
clutter on the back panel.  Give me a single Ethernet connection that
allows me rig control, audio in/out, digital modes, IQ out, remote control,
etc.  That would eliminate a ton of wiring.

I use a Icon IC-9100 for VHF/UHF work.  It is a pleasure to move that radio
around.  Power, Antenna, USB are the only things hooked up in the back.  My
K3 on the other hand has:  Paddle in, Key in, audio in, audio out, rig
control, cable for tuner and amp, IF output, FSK input, antenna and power
(10 cables).

The K3 is light, highly portable, and is a performance dream.  It just
requires 50 pounds of cables to attach to everything!

Given the modular approach of the K3, it should be possible swap out the
traditional stuff and supply a digital connection as an option.

By the way, I have never had a RFI issue with a Ethernet USTP network.  All
my computer cables/switches work just fine.  Can't say the same about all
the other connectors and cables.  So going over to a single digital
connection makes for a more robust electromagnetic compatibility situation
as well.  Heck, it could even be WiFi.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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[N0AZZ]

Still one of the best all mode mobiles made what's your point? It's
replacement has a touch screen was mine, what is your problem just cheap
answers?

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Musings on a "K4"

On 5/23/2013 7:20 AM, Fred Smith wrote:
>   Icom 7100 has a touch screen
> on it, it is the replacement for the IC-7000

I can't imagine why that would interest anyone -- the 7000 has a user
interface that only the programmer's mother could love. VERY awkward to use,
and it's essentially a cheapie radio with cheapie radio performance.

73, Jim K9YC
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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3162/5850 - Release Date: 05/23/13

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[N0AZZ]

Bob how right you are my IC-9100 is just as you say, the one non-Elecraft
radio I kept because they had nothing to match it.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:06 AM
Cc: Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Musings on a "K4"

Personally, I'd be happy if I could upgrade my K3 to get rid of all the
clutter on the back panel.  Give me a single Ethernet connection that allows
me rig control, audio in/out, digital modes, IQ out, remote control, etc.
That would eliminate a ton of wiring.

I use a Icon IC-9100 for VHF/UHF work.  It is a pleasure to move that radio
around.  Power, Antenna, USB are the only things hooked up in the back.  My
K3 on the other hand has:  Paddle in, Key in, audio in, audio out, rig
control, cable for tuner and amp, IF output, FSK input, antenna and power
(10 cables).

The K3 is light, highly portable, and is a performance dream.  It just
requires 50 pounds of cables to attach to everything!

Given the modular approach of the K3, it should be possible swap out the
traditional stuff and supply a digital connection as an option.

By the way, I have never had a RFI issue with a Ethernet USTP network.  All
my computer cables/switches work just fine.  Can't say the same about all
the other connectors and cables.  So going over to a single digital
connection makes for a more robust electromagnetic compatibility situation
as well.  Heck, it could even be WiFi.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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[Scott Manthe-2]

While that's nice to know, most of us are not subscribers to RadCom, and
those who are will already be aware of this.  Can you impart any of Mr.
Hart's relevant findings to the list?

73,
Scott, N9AA


On 5/23/13 12:05 PM, Tim wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> There is a Pert Hart full review in the June 2013 RadCom.
>
> 73
> Tim
> gm4lmh
>

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[Bill Frantz]

Sorry for the length. I've tried to put the really lengthy parts
in footnotes.

General Comments:

I like building things and soldering[1]. I talked with Eric at a
show and he had cogent things to say about support costs for SMT
kits, but with my Heathkit background I think we need to give
young people the experience of building with modern techniques
so they can compete in inventing new devices.

Touch screens can be really bad.[2] I can still use my K3 by
touch at night when I haven't turned the lights on. Also think
about blind hams and other handicaps.

Any new-design radio should have a direct digital audio
interface to computers.[3]

The radio should be designed for complete remote control[4].

Reducing the maze of wires is certainly desirable.

Mouse click to panadapter tune would be nice.

As a K3/10 owner, I am not overly impressed with the need to
have >100W in the box. I like the clean signal argument Joe
presented though.


Cheers - Bill, AE6JV


[1] It took me 18 months to decide between the K2 and K3. I
looked at it as:

K2:
   + Real kit
   + Smaller
   + Less receive power
   + Less $$$
   - Poorer specs
   - Poorer support for sound-card digital

K3:
   + Better specs
   + Good sound-card digital support
   + The rest of the K line

I finally got off the dime at RadioFest near Monterey CA after
my wife (a retired Apple software QA engineer) spent 15 minutes
discussing the K3 UI with an Elecraft booth attendant. When she
approved the UI and was willing to pony up the $$$ for a minimal
K3 I jumped on it. My show benefit was free shipping the 30
miles or so from Watsonville.


[2] My iPhone frequently doesn't recognize my touch. Wetting my
finger tip helps. I have really big fingers, glove size XL. I
like the touch screens that can be used with a stylus because I
can use my finger nail with them. As a touch typist, touch
screen keyboards are awful.


[3] The radio could include a general purpose computer as part
of the package. Deciding on computer features makes this choice
less desirable. (Ducking the Mac/Linux/Windows wars.)


[4] Being able to set the radio up for remote operation becomes
more important as more and more hams live with antenna
restrictions or travel. , Also allowing the final amp and
receiver front end to be near the antenna feed point is quite
valuable at higher frequencies.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506       | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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[gm3sek]

The Radcom review by Peter Hart is reproduced  on Kenwood's UK website:

<http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/WebFiles/File/uk/download/Technolo
gies/RadCom_June13-TS990S.pdf>


73 from Ian GM3SEK


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[drewko]

In a K4 I would like to have a SDR radio that would be a lot more
"definable" by the end user. I still prefer a conventional
self-contained box-with-knobs for my ham rig (not a computer) but
would like to have a lot more facility for customizing its operation
and functions.

Many of the various feature requests and software enchancements that
have been requested for the K3 and will probably never be implemented
could possibly be programmed by the user himself if the rig had a
sophisticated macro language. Such a "kit" would be a lot of fun to
tinker with!

Not really interested in an SMD kit which to me would be little more
than an extended exercise in soldering, with bags full of microscopic
parts...

73,
Drew
AF2Z

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