N fittings

[Sandy W5TVW]

This was done frequently on the theory that things could not occupy the same
space at the same time!  (silicone grease or water)
73,
Sandy W5TVW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Baugh" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] N fittings


| I'm learning some good stuff on this subject.
| Question... has anyone ever heard of or used pure
| silicone grease in coax connectors to protect against
| moisture and corrosion?
|
| =====
| 73,
| Mark Baugh
| W5EZY
| Grenada MS
|
|
|
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[S55M]

Abt water-proofing

I use only one method:

3M - Self-vulcanizing rubber tape (we used it a lot in Telecom).
If You are concerned abt UV cover it with some good electrical tape (I never
did).


S55M-Adi



----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Arntzen" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N fittings


> I would stay away of any type of silicone because some silicones if
applied
> directly on the coax will harden the
> outer insulation and cause cracks if they are bent.
> Also silicone does not have more than 5 years of ageing before it should
be
> removed and redone.
> The cushcraft boots will eventally go into a chewing gum like state after
a

> couple of years.
> I would recommend a good electrical tape with selfvulcing tape over that
> again.
>
> Tom LA1PHA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Nielsen" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N fittings
>
>
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2005 at 06:32:04AM -0800, Mark Baugh wrote:
> >> I'm learning some good stuff on this subject.
> >> Question... has anyone ever heard of or used pure
> >> silicone grease in coax connectors to protect against
> >> moisture and corrosion?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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[Tom Hammond-3]

Adding to Vic's previous comments... from my own experiences...

At 10:54 AM 2/15/05, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
>I've tried different methods of waterproofing outdoor coax connectors for
>years, and here is my experience, for what it's worth:
>
>3) Coax Seal -- Does a good job and is easy to use.  I have had
>connections sealed for years which have stayed dry.  A little hard to
>clean up when you take the connection apart.

I've found that Coax-Seal works best (for me), if I use it OVER an initial
wrap of good quality plastic tape (Scotch #33 or #88), and then OVER-WRAP
it with another wrap of good quality plastic tape. UV will kill coax-seal
if it's not protected from UV, and coax-seal is simply MISERABLE to remove
from just about ANY coax connector if you install it directly onto the
connector (without an inner wrapping).

For the past 5 years, I've switched to self-vulcanizing (silicone) tape...
see below.

>6) Self-vulcanizing rubber tape -- I've never been able to apply it
>properly, but looks like it would work well (although I don't know how it
>would respond to UV).  Tends to want to stick to itself, etc.  Everything
>is harder when you are on a roof or tower.

The self-vulcanizing tape I use was purchased at Dayton over 3-4 years,
from an amateur radio club in Minnesota... it is a gray silicone tape and
VERY flexible and stretchy (almost a 2:1 stretch factor). I apply this tape
directly to the coax connection, overlapping it about 50%. I then follow
with a final overwrap of 3M #33 or #88 tape. It has, so far, kept every(!)
drop of moisture from the connectors it's protected. There was no name on
the rolls of tape, but I'm told that they were donated to the radio club by
a 'very large' tape manufacturing company which has three similar letters
in its name, and this is also located in MN. Hmmm... apparently the tape
failed one or more of their QC tests, but was still good enough for most
uses, just not those for which the company was willing to have its name
shown on the product.

Self-vulcanizing rubber tapes I've seen should work just as well. If they
appear to want to really stick TO the coax connector (such as Coax-seal
does), you might want to first apply a protective "don't stick to me" wrap
of plastic tape (even the cheap stuff will work here), and then apply the
self-vulcanizing rubber tape, and finally a UV protective layer of good
quality plastic tape.

Finally, the question of how to 'terminate' a taped wrap... some just pull
it tight and then yank on the tape until it breaks, wrapping the loose end
around the already-taped connection.

I've found, from experience, AND from numerous suggestions from those who
have done a LOT more if that I, that when terminating a wrapped connection,
it is best to pullout a loose end of maybe 3"-4", CUT it off, and allow it
to hang free for a short period of time, to allow any previous stretch to
be recovered by the loose end. Once it has returned to its UNstretched
length, wrap it snuggly around the taped joint, using the larger diameter
of the taped joint if possible and WITHOUT much pulling on tape as you wrap
it. This allows the tape to seal against itself well, but having not been
stretched, it won't want to unstretch later on when the sun comes out and
heats up the taped joint, softening the adhesive.

73,

Tom   N0SS

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[Sandy W5TVW]

Best thing I ever found was Scotch #23 tape (I think no longer being made!)  Also
very similar #130C
works the same.  It's a silicone rubber tape that streeeeetches and then
self-vulcanizes.  Very
good stuff, not hard to apply and waterproof.  Used to use it in a corrosive marine
(seagoing)
environment with very good results.  Easy to remove with a very sharp knife blade.
The sun doesn't seem to bother it.  For wrapping very irregular objects, fill in
voids with
Scotchfil putty.
73,
Sandy W5TVW
----- Original Message -----
From: "S55M" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N fittings


| Abt water-proofing
|
| I use only one method:
|
| 3M - Self-vulcanizing rubber tape (we used it a lot in Telecom).
| If You are concerned abt UV cover it with some good electrical tape (I never
| did).
|
|
| S55M-Adi
|
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Tom Arntzen" <[hidden email]>
| To: <[hidden email]>
| Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:54 PM
| Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N fittings
|
|
| > I would stay away of any type of silicone because some silicones if
| applied
| > directly on the coax will harden the
| > outer insulation and cause cracks if they are bent.
| > Also silicone does not have more than 5 years of ageing before it should
| be
| > removed and redone.
| > The cushcraft boots will eventally go into a chewing gum like state after
| a
| > couple of years.
| > I would recommend a good electrical tape with selfvulcing tape over that
| > again.
| >
| > Tom LA1PHA
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Bob Nielsen" <[hidden email]>
| > To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
| > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 5:17 PM
| > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N fittings
| >
| >
| > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2005 at 06:32:04AM -0800, Mark Baugh wrote:
| > >> I'm learning some good stuff on this subject.
| > >> Question... has anyone ever heard of or used pure
| > >> silicone grease in coax connectors to protect against
| > >> moisture and corrosion?
| >
| >
| > _______________________________________________
| > Elecraft mailing list
| > Post to: [hidden email]
| > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
| > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
| >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
| >
| > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
| > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
|
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|

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[Stuart Rohre]

Tom is very correct.  In 3M presentations on their specialty tape products,
they emphasized NOT yanking off the end of any tape; but to unroll as Tom
says, and let it "relax" then CUT the tape from the roll.  That way, you
will not have loose ends hanging off the installation after a few weeks.
This is true of any tape with stretch.

3M has a broad line of self amalgamating tapes.   They are used extensively
in the electric utility trade; so met a local lineman, or check with
electrical wholesale houses in your vicinity.

If ever you can get a 3M rep. to give a local club a presentation, they are
fond of bringing samples to give out.
73,
Stuart
K5KVH


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[Stuart Rohre]

My understanding of the place to place silicon grease is NOT upon the
outside of the connector, but rather in the interface between male and
female connectors.  The idea is to exclude moisture pooling on the insulator
between the center pin and the outer shell conductor.

However, if you over wrap a coax connector with a good quality electrical
vinyl tape, and cut the end, rather than stretching it to break; you can
then overwrap with coax seal, Dux Seal, or self amalgamating tape lapped 50
percent, and have a long lasting but recoverable seal.

N connectors by their very construction do not typically need the addition
of silicone grease.  They have adequate fine threads and tight fitting
interfaces between plug and receptacle.

I prefer NOT to seal with silicone grease to enable inspection of the
connectors every year.
-Stuart
K5KVH


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[Bill Coleman-2]

On Feb 15, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

> Just a word about what happens when you DON'T waterproof your
> connectors:  water will corrode the joints in the connector, but
> worse, it will move into the coax braid by capillary action.

The K7LXC tip -- regardless of which weatherproofing method you use --
if you are using tape of any kind, wind your last layer of tape in the
upward direction, overlapping each turn. This will cause any water to
naturally shed away from the inner (lower) layers, much the same way as
roofing shingles.

If you wind in the other direction, the water will tend to move into
the connection. Not good.

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL        Mail: [hidden email]
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
             -- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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[G3VVT]

 
In a message dated 15/02/05 21:20:57 GMT Standard Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

My  understanding of the place to place silicon grease is NOT upon the
outside  of the connector, but rather in the interface between male and
female  connectors.  The idea is to exclude moisture pooling on the  insulator
between the center pin and the outer shell  conductor.



----------------------------------------------
 
Silicon grease would only be placed on the inside of the connector, but  
enevitably some can be squeezed out, making it's way to the outside  and in the
process is transferred to your hands. Once that happens  there is no way in the
world that most tape adhesives or self amalgamating/self  vulcanising tape
would adhere to the connector or even itself for that matter.  It only takes an
exceeding small amount and seems impossible to remove by normal  cleaning. This
would be why Don, W3FPR was wisely advising caution on the amount  of silicon
grease used.
 
With self amalgamating tape one has to be careful as some  types are said to
be attacked by UV, though did use one  brand of it in waterproofing CATV
connectors in the UK for a number of  years without any problems. Applied the self
amalgamating tape  directly over the connector, then applied a layer of heavy
duty plastic  tape over the top for mechanical strength and protection.
 
What one uses depends where you live and what the exposure to UV levels  are.
What could apply in latitudes further away from the equator would not be  
applicable in hotter climates. I lived for many years in the Middle East and  
most types of self amalgamating tape would probably not be usable there due  to
extremely high levels of UV. Normal plastic tape had a rather short life and  
such things one would use normally in cooler climates such as polypropylene
rope  and plastic cable ties failed very quickly. The rope was turned to dust in
the  space of little more than a year and plastic cable ties went brittle and  
snapped. Never managed to source carbon loaded cable ties, though nylon T&B  
Tywraps did last a few more years longer.
 
The only sealant I have seen that seems to stand most situations is the  
fabric/heavy grease type of tape. This is known commonly as Denso tape  in the UK
and was pretty well standard on professional telecom  installations for
external connector sealing. Have seen a similar type used  in the Middle East for
the same type of installation, so presume it must be  resistant to the effects
of UV. This tape or a very similar type  is also used on small bore natural gas
lines for joint sealing and  protection, so this could be another source of
supply. Rather messy to use,  though does give extremely good protection to
external connectors over many  years.
 
Bob, G3VVT
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[Peter Linsley]

> Question... has anyone ever heard of or used pure
> silicone grease in  coax connectors to protect against
> moisture and  corrosion?

I have been using it for many years with no problems. The longest
undisturbed SO235/PL259 joint was 11 years at the top of a 60' tower
and when opened it was as clean and bright as when it was put up. I
usually pack the hole in the SO235 and when the plug is inserted it
pushes/spreads the grease round the rest of the socket interior.

72,

Peter Linsley, G3PDL

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