New Eham.net K3 review by QRPNEW

[Julian, G4ILO]

I see that a new review of the K3 has appeared on Eham.net which will no doubt raise the hackles of the paid-up members of the Elecraft fan club, and cause nods of agreement from many others.

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/6673

[Bruce McLaughlin-2]

One of the more amazing aspects of that review was his claim that he did not
know the size of the K-3 before he ordered it.  It's size is certainly not
kept a secret.  Apparently, he does not bother to read the literature before
he buys something.  That's incredible.

As far as the performance aspects he mentions, I don't know what radio he
was using (if in fact he was using a radio) but it certainly does not
remotely resemble either of my K-3s.  His comments about a perceived need to
constantly re-center the roofing filters causes me to wonder whether he has
any idea of what roofing filters are supposed to do or how they work.  But
mainly, I truly wonder if he is ever actually operated the K-3.  While he
was at it, I am rather surprised he did not give it a rating of 0/5 rather
than the 3/5.

His remarks are so foreign to what many other owners, the ARRL and Sherwood
engineering, not forgetting W8JI have all noted with respect to the radio
that one has to wonder about his motives in making the comments.  Certainly,
he is entitled to his opinion just as we are entitled to read it and forget
it.

Bruce-W8FU
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:15 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] New Eham.net K3 review by QRPNEW


I see that a new review of the K3 has appeared on Eham.net which will no
doubt raise the hackles of the paid-up members of the Elecraft fan club, and
cause nods of agreement from many others.

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/6673

-----
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
Directory    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
--
View this message in context:
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[ac0h]

Can we expect the "many others" to be posting for sale notices for their
K3's on the reflector?

I doubt it.



Julian, G4ILO wrote:
> I see that a new review of the K3 has appeared on Eham.net which will no
> doubt raise the hackles of the paid-up members of the Elecraft fan club, and
> cause nods of agreement from many others.


--
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
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[Bill W4ZV]

Julian, G4ILO wrote

I see that a new review of the K3 has appeared on Eham.net which will no doubt raise the hackles of the paid-up members of the Elecraft fan club, and cause nods of agreement from many others.

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/6673

Just another appliance operator addicted to Icom/Yaesu Kool-Aid.  I loved this comment:

"THE ONLY ATTRIBUTE THAT YOU CAN COMMEND THE K3 ON IS ITS EXCELLENT RECEIVER SPECIFICATIONS."

Is there much else that really matters?  All the big knobs, flashy displays and boat anchor rigs would have been sucking big time in the CQ 160 CW Contest this weekend.  Just another example that it takes absolutely no intelligence to make a public fool of yourself on eHam (which is probably why he did so anonymously).  

When the CQ 160 CW soapbox comments are available, I'll post a link with comments on the K3 by serious operators...not the appliance variety.

73,  Bill  W4ZV

[Jim Garland]

 

>
> I see that a new review of the K3 has appeared on Eham.net which will no
> doubt raise the hackles of the paid-up members of the Elecraft fan club,
> and
> cause nods of agreement from many others.
>
> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/6673
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.

I read the review, and while "QRPNEW" took a few unwarranted pot shots at
the K3, I also thought he made some interesting and valid points. The gist
of his comments is that the K3 can't quite decide whether it wants to be a
small portable transceiver, or a full-sized full-featured base station
transceiver, and in trying to be both it falls short in several respects.

In my own station I can toggle back and forth between my K3 and my FT2000D.
The Yaesu has it own problems, as anyone who reads the Yaesu reflectors will
soon learn, but it is clearly more "user friendly" than the K3. Changing
bands and modes is much more convenient, the tuning knob is larger and has a
wonderful silky smooth feel, there are dedicated knobs for the monitor,
keyer speed, processor, and other common functions, the display is easier to
read and more informative, the S-meter is much better, etc.  None of these
speak to the actual electrical performance of the FT2000, but just to its
convenience and useability.

What QRPNEW would like to see is an Elecraft that combines the user
friendliness of the best Japanese radios with the electrical sophistication
of the K3. While QRPNEW would probably agree that the K3 is the ultimate
Dxpedition rig, he correctly observes that most hams merely want a
top-performing rig that stays put in their station and that is easy to use.

Like many other Elecraft devotees, I was somewhat offended by the tone of
QRPNEW's criticism. However, I don't think there is much to be gained by
being defensive or dismissive of the substance of _some_ of his remarks. As
Wayne and the other folks at Elecraft think about the future of their
product line, I hope they keep some of his points in mind.

73,
Jim W8ZR



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[Tom Wylie]

I am happy with MY K3.      I never believe anything from an anonymous
source.....
It shall be filed in the round file where it belongs.



Tom
GM4FDM




Bruce McLaughlin wrote:

> One of the more amazing aspects of that review was his claim that he did not
> know the size of the K-3 before he ordered it.  It's size is certainly not
> kept a secret.  Apparently, he does not bother to read the literature before
> he buys something.  That's incredible.
>
> As far as the performance aspects he mentions, I don't know what radio he
> was using (if in fact he was using a radio) but it certainly does not
> remotely resemble either of my K-3s.  His comments about a perceived need to
> constantly re-center the roofing filters causes me to wonder whether he has
> any idea of what roofing filters are supposed to do or how they work.  But
> mainly, I truly wonder if he is ever actually operated the K-3.  While he
> was at it, I am rather surprised he did not give it a rating of 0/5 rather
> than the 3/5.
>
> His remarks are so foreign to what many other owners, the ARRL and Sherwood
> engineering, not forgetting W8JI have all noted with respect to the radio
> that one has to wonder about his motives in making the comments.  Certainly,
> he is entitled to his opinion just as we are entitled to read it and forget
> it.
>
> Bruce-W8FU
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:15 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] New Eham.net K3 review by QRPNEW
>
>
> I see that a new review of the K3 has appeared on Eham.net which will no
> doubt raise the hackles of the paid-up members of the Elecraft fan club, and
> cause nods of agreement from many others.
>
> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/6673
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
> Directory    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
>  

--
So I met the bloke who invented crosswords today. I can't remember his
name, it's P something T something R.



---
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[Simon (HB9DRV)]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Garland" <[hidden email]>

> ...he correctly observes that most hams merely want a
> top-performing rig that stays put in their station and that is easy to
> use.

I've recommended the K3 to quite a few people, none have bought it due to
the small size. Price was not an issue, usability was.

I too would have bought a K4 variant were it available - the K3 with a
full-sized front panel.

As it is I'm waiting for the IC-7600 as I have a need for a 6m rig with
bandscope and some meteor scatter software I want to write, also I'm waiting
for more information on Kenwood's high-end offering late in 2009 or
early-ish 2010.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV
www.ham-radio-deluxe.com

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[ac0h]

Any review for a high performance transceiver which starts off
complaining about the size of the box and the lack of enough knobs needs
to be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

I don't know where or when the idea that only BIG radios with lots of
knobs (3/4  of which never get used) should be some kind of standard
related to performance.

I also automatically discount ANY E-Ham review posted by someone who
won't post under their own call sign.

Bruce McLaughlin wrote:

> One of the more amazing aspects of that review was his claim that he did not
> know the size of the K-3 before he ordered it.  It's size is certainly not
> kept a secret.  Apparently, he does not bother to read the literature before
> he buys something.  That's incredible.
>
> As far as the performance aspects he mentions, I don't know what radio he
> was using (if in fact he was using a radio) but it certainly does not
> remotely resemble either of my K-3s.  His comments about a perceived need to
> constantly re-center the roofing filters causes me to wonder whether he has
> any idea of what roofing filters are supposed to do or how they work.  But
> mainly, I truly wonder if he is ever actually operated the K-3.  While he
> was at it, I am rather surprised he did not give it a rating of 0/5 rather
> than the 3/5.
>
> His remarks are so foreign to what many other owners, the ARRL and Sherwood
> engineering, not forgetting W8JI have all noted with respect to the radio
> that one has to wonder about his motives in making the comments.  Certainly,
> he is entitled to his opinion just as we are entitled to read it and forget
> it.
>
> Bruce-W8FU

--
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
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[Simon (HB9DRV)]

----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Kevin Stover" <[hidden email]>


> Any review for a high performance transceiver which starts off
> complaining about the size of the box and the lack of enough knobs needs
> to be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

Why? It's about usability...

I'm colour-blind, have ageing eyes and small hands. For me it's usability,
usability, usability, a good receiver and a clean transmitter.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV
www.ham-radio-deluxe.com

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[Greg - AB7R]

Very simply put.... you know how big a radio is before you buy it.  You look at the specs...if its too small for you,
get something that isn't.


-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065


On Mon Jan 26  7:17 , "Simon \(HB9DRV\)"  sent:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "R. Kevin Stover" [hidden email]>
>
>
>> Any review for a high performance transceiver which starts off
>> complaining about the size of the box and the lack of enough knobs needs
>> to be looked at with a jaundiced eye.
>
>Why? It's about usability...
>
>I'm colour-blind, have ageing eyes and small hands. For me it's usability,
>usability, usability, a good receiver and a clean transmitter.
>
>Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
>
>_______________________________________________
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[Julian, G4ILO]

Bill W4ZV wrote

I loved this comment:

"THE ONLY ATTRIBUTE THAT YOU CAN COMMEND THE K3 ON IS ITS EXCELLENT RECEIVER SPECIFICATIONS."

Is there much else that really matters?

I can't believe that you would write that, Bill. I would have thought that transmitter specifications were equally important, and one of the points this reviewer made (and also being discussed in another thread here, right now) is that he received reports of splatter.

Given that the qualities of the K3 receiver make this transceiver more likely than most to be driving a linear to the full legal limit in a contest or big gun DX station, I would have thought that transmitter specifications of comparable excellence to the receiver were also essential.

[Ed Muns, W0YK]

> I read the review, and while "QRPNEW" took a few unwarranted
> pot shots at the K3, I also thought he made some interesting
> and valid points.

This "review" is either a joke or the creation of someone who doesn't
understand the purpose of a HF transceiver.  It was clear, just partway
through, that this anonymous poster had zero credibility.

> The gist of his comments is that the K3
> can't quite decide whether it wants to be a small portable
> transceiver, or a full-sized full-featured base station
> transceiver, and in trying to be both it falls short in
> several respects.

This statement is completely backwards.  One of the incredible achievements
of the K3 is that it is the most portable of serious HF transceivers AND it
outperforms other HP transceivers in all the ways that matter.  Yes, there
are some specific situations and specific users for which the K3 is not
perfect, but the radio hits the mark for the vast majority of diverse users.

Ed - W0YK


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[Bill W4ZV]

Julian, G4ILO wrote

Bill W4ZV wrote

I loved this comment:

"THE ONLY ATTRIBUTE THAT YOU CAN COMMEND THE K3 ON IS ITS EXCELLENT RECEIVER SPECIFICATIONS."

Is there much else that really matters?

I can't believe that you would write that, Bill. I would have thought that transmitter specifications were equally important, and one of the points this reviewer made (and also being discussed in another thread here, right now) is that he received reports of splatter.

Given that the qualities of the K3 receiver make this transceiver more likely than most to be driving a linear to the full legal limit in a contest or big gun DX station, I would have thought that transmitter specifications of comparable excellence to the receiver were also essential.

First of all I don't operate much SSB (my mike isn't even connected now).  Although I hold all 3 USA 10m records on SSB (CQ WW, ARRL DX, CQ WPX), I don't plan to be on SSB much until Cycle 24 allows 10m again and am quite sure by that time Elecraft will have addressed any TX issues on SSB (if they have not already done so).  Actually I believe they have.  This character seems to have gleaned every possible negative from past postings and not recognized that Elecraft has already addressed many of the issues.  His comment about VRF shows his ignorance.  The K3 doesn't need the crutch of another expensive pre-selector because its basic front end is excellent.

The other issue I find quite curious is this newfound interest in TX characteristics.  Where has everyone been the past ~18 years?  The FT-1000 family (D, MP, Mark V) has been a factory CW click generator for years and yet people have still flocked to buy more.  The Icom 765 and 756 family are nothing to rave about either.

W8JI's measurements of TX IMD were not bad, so his units may have been bought after the Elecraft firmware fixes.  From Tom's eHam review:

"I measured around -35 to -38 dB SSB transmitter IM3, better than my other radios. The transmitter is flawlessly clean on CW also."  (Aug. 25, 2008)

Who do I tend to believe?  W8JI or QRPNEW?  I'll let you decide.

73,  Bill

[John-483]

Would you write a review like that if you were going to sell the radio? I think I'd wait until after I sold it. Pure BS.

John
k7up
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[Dave-W5UN]

Ah, a clever ruse by competitor(s).

Dave, W5UN
www.w5un.net

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[w0mu]

I am or was a knob guy.  When contesting I liked having knobs that I could
turn if I need to do so vs. having to enter into a menu in the heat of a
contact or pileup to change something.

What I have found with the K3, I just don't feel the need to do anything
other than turn the vfo knob or tighten up the roofing filters.....

I own two FT-2000's and they do look cool and work fine but they don't work
as well as the K3.

Mike W0MU

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg - AB7R
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 8:21 AM
To: 'R.Kevin Stover'; 'Bruce McLaughlin'; HB9DRV)' <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Eham.net K3 review by QRPNEW

Very simply put.... you know how big a radio is before you buy it.  You look
at the specs...if its too small for you, get something that isn't.


-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065


On Mon Jan 26  7:17 , "Simon \(HB9DRV\)"  sent:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "R. Kevin Stover" [hidden email]>
>
>
>> Any review for a high performance transceiver which starts off
>> complaining about the size of the box and the lack of enough knobs needs
>> to be looked at with a jaundiced eye.
>
>Why? It's about usability...
>
>I'm colour-blind, have ageing eyes and small hands. For me it's usability,
>usability, usability, a good receiver and a clean transmitter.
>
>Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Post to: [hidden email]
>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
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[Bruce McLaughlin-2]

You're absolutely right.  It's really odd but his criticism of the small
size of the K-3 would undoubtedly be one of the easiest things to change
should the spirit move the company.  I also own an Orion II.  Opening the
case of that radio is a revelation.  It has lots of empty space.  It is
obvious it could have been packaged in a much smaller container.  However,
I'm sure the objective of the designers was to have a larger radio for those
who want it.  I ensure Elecraft could do the same thing -- repackage the
existing electronics of the K-3 into a much larger box and shazam, we would
have the K-4.

I am not discounting the desires of some to have a physically larger radio
with the same electrical performance of the K-3.  But I don't think it is
wise to forget what I'm sure was an important design criteria of the team
which designed the radio -- make it as complete as possible in a small,
portable container so it can be used in as many circumstances as possible.
I also have an FT 1000D which has many desirable qualities, considering its
age.  But at 50+ pounds I guarantee it will not be going on many trips with
me.  That is in contrast to the K-3 which would travel very well with the
possible problem that I might have trouble finding it in the car when I
reach my destination.

Bruce-W8FU

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ed Muns
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 10:44 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Eham.net K3 review by QRPNEW

> I read the review, and while "QRPNEW" took a few unwarranted
> pot shots at the K3, I also thought he made some interesting
> and valid points.

This "review" is either a joke or the creation of someone who doesn't
understand the purpose of a HF transceiver.  It was clear, just partway
through, that this anonymous poster had zero credibility.

> The gist of his comments is that the K3
> can't quite decide whether it wants to be a small portable
> transceiver, or a full-sized full-featured base station
> transceiver, and in trying to be both it falls short in
> several respects.

This statement is completely backwards.  One of the incredible achievements
of the K3 is that it is the most portable of serious HF transceivers AND it
outperforms other HP transceivers in all the ways that matter.  Yes, there
are some specific situations and specific users for which the K3 is not
perfect, but the radio hits the mark for the vast majority of diverse users.

Ed - W0YK


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[ac0h]

I can remember maybe a half dozen or so for sale notices for K3's on
this list in the last year. Including HB9DRV's and the other you
mentioned. Lets call it 10 to be generous. I haven't seen many for sale
anywhere, QRZ, E-Ham, eBay, etc.... Add them all up from all sources
call it 100. 100 out of 2500+ built and not all of those 100 have been
sold because it's not a great radio.

I suspect a vast majority of those sold were sold because the user
couldn't get their head around the hybrid nature of the K3. Part
traditional superhet, part SDR.

The K3 is not an appliance operator's radio. You need to pay attention
to what you are fiddling with in the menu's. The chances of someone
taking the K3 right out of the box and getting it tweaked for max
performance without cracking the manual are slim to none. How many posts
have we seen on this list from folks asking questions which are clearly
answered in the manual?

There is a paradigm shift coming to Ham Radio with SDR and the new
technologies. Radio's are going to get smaller with fewer knobs. The
Flex 5000 doesn't have a single knob on it. The Flex 3000 is smaller
than my laptop and also has no knobs.

The Ten-Tec Orion I/II, the first SDR/hybrid, is a colossal waste of
sheet metal. There's four circuit boards in the Orion. They could have
put the same four boards in something the size of the Jupiter. Matter of
fact they pretty much did with the OMNI VII.

There are always going to be people who run something down because it
doesn't work the way they THINK it should work or it requires more
mental effort than plug and play. It's amazing to me that some Hams will
spend 10's of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on towers and
antennas looking for that last fraction of a dB in gain but when the
radio they bought has a sub par receiver they'll ignore that simply
because the box is big and has the required 70 knobs/controls.

Or, is the 5 digit price tag?

Julian G4ILO wrote:
> At least one already has, if you look back a few days. He chose not to
> share his reasons with the group, but he did with me, as I was nosey
> enough to ask, and several of the reasons he gave echo what "QRPNEW"
> has just written.
>
> Julian, G4ILO


--
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
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[Bruce McLaughlin-2]

We are assuming he actually owns the radio.  That may be unwarranted.  It's obvious from the review that he does not much like the radio.  I am curious about what is really going on.

 

I recently purchased a radio accessory which will remain unnamed.  I should have read some other reviews before I purchased it.  Although I tend to take such reviews with a grain of salt.  When they are universally bad as those were, perhaps there is something to them.  In any case my experience with the item was such that the negative reviews were quickly confirmed.  The unit is really total garbage.

 

Even so, I fail to see the benefit in wasting any more time or energy.  I guess that sometime you get champagne and sometime you come up with vinegar.  But even vinegar has its good points.  I've discovered the cat is having a ball playing with the unit which, for a cat, has an absolutely fascinating set of cables going into and out of the box!

 

Bruce-W8FU

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:01 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Eham.net K3 review by QRPNEW

 

Would you write a review like that if you were going to sell the radio? I think I'd wait until after I sold it. Pure BS.

John
k7up

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[Jan Erik Holm]

Bill and others, hold on and think about these
figures. -35 to -38 dB IM3 !! We are dealing
with 2SC2782 transistors operating at around
12V DC. I say no more, the knowledge and intelligent
individual will understand.

/ Jim SM2EKM
---------------------
Bill W4ZV wrote:

>
> "I measured around -35 to -38 dB SSB transmitter IM3, better than my other
> radios. The transmitter is flawlessly clean on CW also."  (Aug. 25, 2008)
>
> Who do I tend to believe?  W8JI or QRPNEW?  I'll let you decide.
>
> 73,  Bill
>
>
>

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