New K3 Power output problem

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New K3 Power output problem

Barry Simpson
I have just completed building K3 #1397. It includes the KPA3, KXV3, KBPF3
and four filters.

 

It went together very well and all is working fine so far except the power
output.

 

I have done the 50W calibration per band and that produces an output of 50W.
However a setting on the power control of 71W gives 100W out and 76W gives
an actual 120W out. From there the power controls gives an output of up to
and beyond 150W.

 

I have tried recalibrating and I have downloaded the latest but to no avail.
I have also emailed Elecraft but given it is the weekend I do not expect to
hear from them for a few days.

 

I wonder if anyone else has had this problem and if so how it was cured. Or
has anyone any suggestions. I think I might take out and reseat the KPA3 in
case it is a bad contact but I don't think it is that.

 

Barry Simpson  VK2BJ

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Re: New K3 Power output problem

Fern Rivard
Hi Barry:

    It looks like your radio will need calibration of the power settings which as NOT shown in the owners manual. You will need to get that info from Elecraft or someone else on this reflector that has that info hany. I had to do that with my K3 back in Feb of 08 as it did not have full spec output on all bands
    73 from Fern  VE7GZ with K3 #412



----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Simpson" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Elecraft'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 3:31 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] New K3 Power output problem


I have just completed building K3 #1397. It includes the KPA3, KXV3, KBPF3
and four filters.

 

It went together very well and all is working fine so far except the power
output.

 

I have done the 50W calibration per band and that produces an output of 50W.
However a setting on the power control of 71W gives 100W out and 76W gives
an actual 120W out. From there the power controls gives an output of up to
and beyond 150W.

 

I have tried recalibrating and I have downloaded the latest but to no avail.
I have also emailed Elecraft but given it is the weekend I do not expect to
hear from them for a few days.

 

I wonder if anyone else has had this problem and if so how it was cured. Or
has anyone any suggestions. I think I might take out and reseat the KPA3 in
case it is a bad contact but I don't think it is that.

 

Barry Simpson  VK2BJ

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Re: New K3 Power output problem (Wrong trans. on KXV3)

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ
Administrator
In reply to this post by Barry Simpson
Hi Barry,

I apologize for the power control problem. We just confirmed Friday
(yesterday) that a small number of our K3 KXV3 modules (less than 20)
shipped between July 30 and August 5 may have an incorrect part
installed. The problem modules will only be found in K3 kits. Factory
assembled K3’s are not effected by this issue.

The resulting symptom is that the K3 will output much more RF power than
the PWR control is set for. This most likely will be noticed when doing
the 50 watt TX gain cal procedure. Instead of putting out 50 watts, the
actual output will be around 70 watts on all bands. KXV3s with correct
transistors will not exhibit this symptom.

To confirm if you have a KXV3 that is effected by this, the KXV3 (two
board set) will need to be removed from the K3. (This is very easy - See
instructions at the end of this email.)

The part in question is mounted on the PC board that does not have the
BNC connectors. *If this board has a small sticker with the number
“14704” and Q1 on the same board has '7AW' marked on it, you will need
to exchange the KXV3 module for a replacement.*

Since some boards with 14704 number have been reworked and not marked,
the best way to tell is to inspect Q1 and see if it is marked '7AW'. See
picture below.

*Incorrect Transistor at Q1*

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/pics/Q1%20incorrect%20part.jpg

If your board has the incorrect part 'marked '7AW' please notify* *
*[hidden email]* or call 831 662 8345 and we will immediately
replace your KXV3. /(Barry - I have already entered a KXV3 request into
our parts request database - Eric.)/

Please also note that while waiting for the replacement you may continue
using your K3 with the KXV3 removed. (Remember to set this option to
'not installed' in the menu.)

Eric WA6HHQ

----

*KRX3 Board removal instructions.

*1. Remove the top cover of the K3.

2. Remove the two black screws on the top KIO3 rear trim panel. (do not
remove the four "nuts" on the DB connectors)

3. Push the Digital IO board and trim panel assembly outward from the
inside. (with rear of K3 facing you, press on the backs of the two DB
connectors with both index fingers. The panel and digital IO boards come
out together. See attached picture below.)

4. Remove the upper standoff from the KIO3 board. (this is only
necessary if the KRX3 is installed.)

5. Pull the KIO3 board straight up and out of the K3 through the rear
panel.

6. Reverse these steps to re-install the KXV3 assembly.

*Removal of KIO3 Digital Board (KXV3 is just below the KIO3.)*

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/pics/KXV3%20Removal_320.jpg

======

Barry Simpson wrote:

> I have just completed building K3 #1397. It includes the KPA3, KXV3, KBPF3
> and four filters.
>
> It went together very well and all is working fine so far except the power
> output.
>
> I have done the 50W calibration per band and that produces an output of 50W.
> However a setting on the power control of 71W gives 100W out and 76W gives
> an actual 120W out. From there the power controls gives an output of up to
> and beyond 150W.
>
> I have tried recalibrating and I have downloaded the latest but to no avail.
> I have also emailed Elecraft but given it is the weekend I do not expect to
> hear from them for a few days.
>
> I wonder if anyone else has had this problem and if so how it was cured. Or
> has anyone any suggestions. I think I might take out and reseat the KPA3 in
> case it is a bad contact but I don't think it is that.
>
> Barry Simpson  VK2BJ
>  
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RE: New K3 Power output problem

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ
Administrator
In reply to this post by Barry Simpson
Oops! Yes, the jumpers have to be temporarily replaced while the kxv3 is out. You should then get RF.

Eric
_..._
-----Original Message-----
From: "Barry Simpson" <[hidden email]>
Date: Saturday, Aug 9, 2008 6:18 pm
Subject: RE: New K3 Power output problem
To: "'Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft'" <[hidden email]>

         
Hi Eric
 
Thanks for your very quick response.
 
I have removed the KXV3. It does indeed have the "14704" sticker and Q1 is marked "7AW" so that is obviously the problem.
 
You are quite right. The power issue first surfaced at the 50W TX gain calibration when the actual output was about 70W.  
 
Having reassembled the K3 and set the KXV3 option to not installed I now get no power out at all. Is this because of jumpers W1 and W2 being removed as part of the KXV3 installation ? When I engage "tune" I get the ERR TXG message.
 
No great dramas if the replacement KXV3 board will put everything right. However I should appreciate your feedback as to whether the K3 should now in fact be generating RF.
 
Best regards
 
Barry Simpson  VK2BJ
 
 

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annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Fern Rivard
In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ
    I have a K3 serial #412 which has always had an annoying resonance from the internals of the radio cabinet somewheres when using the internal speaker. I thought that it may have been the top lid which did that so I tried to isolate the top lid by temporarily adding some electrical tape between the top and when it meets the the top of the radio. However, that did NOT accomplish anything for me. Has anyone found a permanent cure for that annoying resonance?
    This afternoon I took my K3 for a bit of "Show and Tell" to a get together picnic that our local ham club put on  this afternoon. Not having a spare antenna conveniently laying around, I just took a small roll of telephone extension wire "4 conductor in it) so I soldered all four wire together with enough solder residue so that it would just fit inside the SO-239 ant#1 rear connector. I guestimate that I had an approximate lenght of 35 feet or so of wire that I strung between trees. I had the K3 on a padded surface on the hood of my vehicle to make it handy for the audience to see it. I tried the automatic antenna tuner on all bands from 80 to 10 meters with a resultant perfect match from 75 meters all the way to 10 meters with 1:0 to 1 match. Unfortunately band conditios were not very good today.

    73 from Fern   VE7GZ




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Re: annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Jim Wiley-2

There were several posts to this list a couple of weeks ago dealing with
this issue.  A search of the archives might turn up what you need.


- Jim, KL7CC



Fern Rivard wrote:

>     I have a K3 serial #412 which has always had an annoying resonance from the internals of the radio cabinet somewheres when using the internal speaker. I thought that it may have been the top lid which did that so I tried to isolate the top lid by temporarily adding some electrical tape between the top and when it meets the the top of the radio. However, that did NOT accomplish anything for me. Has anyone found a permanent cure for that annoying resonance?
>     This afternoon I took my K3 for a bit of "Show and Tell" to a get together picnic that our local ham club put on  this afternoon. Not having a spare antenna conveniently laying around, I just took a small roll of telephone extension wire "4 conductor in it) so I soldered all four wire together with enough solder residue so that it would just fit inside the SO-239 ant#1 rear connector. I guestimate that I had an approximate lenght of 35 feet or so of wire that I strung between trees. I had the K3 on a padded surface on the hood of my vehicle to make it handy for the audience to see it. I tried the automatic antenna tuner on all bands from 80 to 10 meters with a resultant perfect match from 75 meters all the way to 10 meters with 1:0 to 1 match. Unfortunately band conditios were not very good today.
>
>     73 from Fern   VE7GZ
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>  
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Re: annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Stewart Baker
In reply to this post by Fern Rivard
The buzzing I noticed on my K3 is the top cover vibrating against
the top of the PA shield. There should be a greater clearance
between the two.

I have been waiting until there is a reason to disassemble my K3,
so I can take a file to the metalwork. That is what I would do if
I were building another one from scratch.

Also the ATU board makes intermittent contact with the cover.

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:47:14 -0600, Fern Rivard wrote:
> I have a K3 serial #412 which has always had an annoying
resonance from the internals
> of the radio cabinet somewheres when using the internal speaker.
I thought that it may
> have been the top lid which did that so I tried to isolate the
top lid by temporarily
> adding some electrical tape between the top and when it meets
the the top of the radio.
> However, that did NOT accomplish anything for me. Has anyone
found a permanent cure for
> that annoying resonance?
> This afternoon I took my K3 for a bit of "Show and Tell" to a
get together picnic that
> our local ham club put on  this afternoon. Not having a spare
antenna conveniently
> laying around, I just took a small roll of telephone extension
wire "4 conductor in it)
> so I soldered all four wire together with enough solder residue
so that it would just
> fit inside the SO-239 ant#1 rear connector. I guestimate that I
had an approximate
> lenght of 35 feet or so of wire that I strung between trees. I
had the K3 on a padded
> surface on the hood of my vehicle to make it handy for the
audience to see it. I tried
> the automatic antenna tuner on all bands from 80 to 10 meters
with a resultant perfect
> match from 75 meters all the way to 10 meters with 1:0 to 1
match. Unfortunately band

> conditios were not very good today.
>
> 73 from Fern   VE7GZ
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com


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Re: annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

M0XDF
Strange, mine not only does not do that, but I can't make it do that  
even if I tap it - do you have the chassis stiffener in place correctly?
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice,
but in practice there is.

On 11 Aug 2008, at 09:24, Stewart Baker wrote:

> The buzzing I noticed on my K3 is the top cover vibrating against
> the top of the PA shield. There should be a greater clearance
> between the two.

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Re: annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Stewart Baker

Oh Yes !

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:56:36 +0100, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
> Strange, mine not only does not do that, but I can't make it do
that
> even if I tap it - do you have the chassis stiffener in place
correctly?


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Re: annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Nick Kennedy
In reply to this post by Fern Rivard
I've got this too. I did some things to eliminate top cover resonances
and then I began to notice this.  It's a little more subtle than a
continuous buzzing along with the tones of CW. Sort of a scratchy sound.

I thought it was in the audio, but no, it's gone when I use headphones
or an external speaker.  I thought it might be an artifact of
processing, but no, it's still there when I turn processing off.   Band
noise is enough to cause the sound on a moderately noisy band (not hard
to find these days).  Moderate (but not excessive) volume is required to
being it in.  I did note that as I crank up the Lo Cut, the noise
disappears when I cross 250 or 300 Hz.

Thus far, I've removed some of the things I did to dampen the top cover
plate.  I removed the top and looked for any loose screws and tapped
various components for sound.  Removed the bottom cover and attempted
the same.  No luck.  I hate the thought of disassembling the entire
front of the rig ...

73--Nick, WA5BDU


Fern Rivard wrote:
>     I have a K3 serial #412 which has always had an annoying resonance from the internals of the radio cabinet somewheres when using the internal speaker. I thought that it may have been the top lid which did that so I tried to isolate the top lid by temporarily adding some electrical tape between the top and when it meets the the top of the radio. However, that did NOT accomplish anything for me. Has anyone found a permanent cure for that annoying resonance?
>
>  

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Re: annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Fern Rivard
In reply to this post by Stewart Baker
Yes Stewart, I DO have the stiffener in place otherwise there would be some exposed holes on the top lid! I temporarily put some black electrical tap between the contact areas where the top lid meets the radio but that didn't stop any of it. The resonance appears to come from down below the pa unit. Fern


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart Baker" <[hidden email]>
To: "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Fern Rivard" <[hidden email]>; "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 4:14 AM
Subject: Re: [K3] annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3



Oh Yes !

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:56:36 +0100, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
> Strange, mine not only does not do that, but I can't make it do
that
> even if I tap it - do you have the chassis stiffener in place
correctly?




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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02 AM


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Re: annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Fern Rivard
In reply to this post by Nick Kennedy
    Ok Nick, thanks for your comments so I now know that I'm not the only one with that annoying problem. It sure didn't impress anyone when I did a "Show and Tell" for some of the guys in our ham club yesterday when I took the K3 to a picnic get together. I sure hope that Elecraft takes this seriously as I would think that they've come across that before and should have a simple fix.  Fern


----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick-WA5BDU" <[hidden email]>
To: "Fern Rivard" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3


I've got this too. I did some things to eliminate top cover resonances
and then I began to notice this.  It's a little more subtle than a
continuous buzzing along with the tones of CW. Sort of a scratchy sound.

I thought it was in the audio, but no, it's gone when I use headphones
or an external speaker.  I thought it might be an artifact of
processing, but no, it's still there when I turn processing off.   Band
noise is enough to cause the sound on a moderately noisy band (not hard
to find these days).  Moderate (but not excessive) volume is required to
being it in.  I did note that as I crank up the Lo Cut, the noise
disappears when I cross 250 or 300 Hz.

Thus far, I've removed some of the things I did to dampen the top cover
plate.  I removed the top and looked for any loose screws and tapped
various components for sound.  Removed the bottom cover and attempted
the same.  No luck.  I hate the thought of disassembling the entire
front of the rig ...

73--Nick, WA5BDU


Fern Rivard wrote:
>     I have a K3 serial #412 which has always had an annoying resonance from the internals of the radio cabinet somewheres when using the internal speaker. I thought that it may have been the top lid which did that so I tried to isolate the top lid by temporarily adding some electrical tape between the top and when it meets the the top of the radio. However, that did NOT accomplish anything for me. Has anyone found a permanent cure for that annoying resonance?
>
>  



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02 AM


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Re: annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Stewart Baker
In reply to this post by Fern Rivard
So do I  Fern.

I tried the tape, which originally seem to stop the problem.

I then took a side cover off, and looked at the various
clearances.

I came to the conclusion the main culprit was the top of the PA
shield being close to the top cover, but not actually attached to
it.

My solution, until I get the file out was to split a piece of
rubber sleeving lengthwise, and curl this over the top edge of the
metal shield. This forces the top cover up slightly and also stops
the metal surfaces from coming into contact on audio peaks.

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:34:25 -0600, Fern Rivard wrote:
> Yes Stewart, I DO have the stiffener in place otherwise there
would be some exposed
> holes on the top lid! I temporarily put some black electrical
tap between the contact
> areas where the top lid meets the radio but that didn't stop any
of it. The resonance
> appears to come from down below the pa unit. Fern
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stewart Baker" <[hidden email]>
> To: "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Fern Rivard" <[hidden email]> "Elecraft List"
<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 4:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [K3] annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3
>
>
> Oh Yes !
>
> 73
> Stewart G3RXQ
> On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:56:36 +0100, David Ferrington, M0XDF
wrote:
>> Strange, mine not only does not do that, but I can't make it do
> that
>> even if I tap it - do you have the chassis stiffener in place
> correctly?


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annoying resonance with internal speaker in K3

Phil Salas
In reply to this post by Fern Rivard
"... It's a little more subtle than a continuous buzzing along with the
tones of CW. Sort of a scratchy sound.  I thought it was in the audio, but
no, it's gone when I use headphones
or an external speaker..."

I had this same problem on my K3.  Headphones and an external speaker both
sounded good.  It turns out that the K3 speaker was bad.  Take your cover
loose and hold it above the K3 while still listening to the speaker.  If it
is still buzzy/scratchy, then the speaker is bad.  Elecraft replaced the
speaker and everything sounds great.

Phil - AD5X

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re position of roofing filters on KRX3 2nd rx

Fern Rivard
Are the roofing filters accessible on the KRX-3 receiver without having to pull the receiver out of the K3?  Thanks from Fern

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RE: re position of roofing filters on KRX3 2nd rx

Dick Dievendorff
There is a shield that surrounds the RF receiver board that the filters are
mounted to.

The KRX3 has a few other boards that remain in place, but the main shielded
RF board has to come out to change filters.  

With practice the shielded board comes out very quickly.

Dick, K6KR


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fern Rivard
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:57 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] re position of roofing filters on KRX3 2nd rx

Are the roofing filters accessible on the KRX-3 receiver without having to
pull the receiver out of the K3?  Thanks from Fern

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Re: re position of roofing filters on KRX3 2nd rx

Vic K2VCO
In reply to this post by Fern Rivard
Fern Rivard wrote:
> Are the roofing filters accessible on the KRX-3 receiver without
> having to pull the receiver out of the K3?  Thanks from Fern

You have to pull the KRX3 because the screw that holds the filter in
place is not accessible without removing the board from its shielding
enclosure.

Having said that, after doing it a number of times you you get used to it.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Re: re position of roofing filters on KRX3 2nd rx

Fern Rivard
In reply to this post by Dick Dievendorff
Ok Dick, many thanks for that info.  Much appreciated.   Fern


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Dievendorff" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Fern Rivard'" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:02 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] re position of roofing filters on KRX3 2nd rx


There is a shield that surrounds the RF receiver board that the filters are
mounted to.

The KRX3 has a few other boards that remain in place, but the main shielded
RF board has to come out to change filters.  

With practice the shielded board comes out very quickly.

Dick, K6KR


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fern Rivard
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:57 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] re position of roofing filters on KRX3 2nd rx

Are the roofing filters accessible on the KRX-3 receiver without having to
pull the receiver out of the K3?  Thanks from Fern

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Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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