Elecraft

New Output Power Issue

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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

New Output Power Issue

All,

Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my
K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100
watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about
60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version
(MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or
adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is
greatly appreciated.

Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas.

-- Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
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Jack Berry

Re: New Output Power Issue

Have you run "Calibrate Transmitter Gain" using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display.

God Bless & 73!
Jack - WE5ST

________________________________
From: Ian Kahn <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue

All,

Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my
K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100
watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about
60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version
(MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or
adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is
greatly appreciated.

Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas.

-- Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: New Output Power Issue

Ron,

With all due respect, this 40-watt power loss is noted in a watt meter
connected directly to the ANT1 output on my K3, and then directly to a
300-watt dummy load. There is nothing else in between to cause a power
drop. Where else would you recommend I look for the source of my
problem, if not in the transceiver itself?

40 watts may only be about 1/3 of an S-unit, but that isn't the point.
The point is that my rig is not performing as it should. I would like to
fix the issue, in the most cost- and time-effective manner possible. If
there are tests I can run to help isolate the problem, I'm open to
suggestions.

Thank you.

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> And you'll likely find the cause of your "low signal strength" is somewhere
> else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit - below 100
> watts.
>
> That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal variations in
> propagation that go on constantly.
>
> 73 Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Have you run "Calibrate Transmitter Gain" using the K3 Utility from
> Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and
> fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly.
> You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3
> display.
>
>
>
> God Bless & 73!
> Jack - WE5ST
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ian Kahn <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
>
> All,
>
> Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3,
> s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts
> into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about
> 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version
> (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting
> to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas.
>
> -- Ian
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA EM74ua
> [hidden email]
> K3 #281, P3 #688
> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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Bill K9YEQ

Re: New Output Power Issue

Ian,

Does the rig voltage sage when transmitting?

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue

Ron,

With all due respect, this 40-watt power loss is noted in a watt meter
connected directly to the ANT1 output on my K3, and then directly to a
300-watt dummy load. There is nothing else in between to cause a power
drop. Where else would you recommend I look for the source of my problem,
if not in the transceiver itself?

40 watts may only be about 1/3 of an S-unit, but that isn't the point.
The point is that my rig is not performing as it should. I would like to fix
the issue, in the most cost- and time-effective manner possible. If there
are tests I can run to help isolate the problem, I'm open to suggestions.

Thank you.

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> And you'll likely find the cause of your "low signal strength" is
> somewhere else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit -
> below 100 watts.
>
> That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal
> variations in propagation that go on constantly.
>
> 73 Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Have you run "Calibrate Transmitter Gain" using the K3 Utility from
> Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple
> and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember

correctly.

> You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3
> display.
>
>
>
> God Bless & 73!
> Jack - WE5ST
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ian Kahn <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
>
> All,
>
> Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on
> my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal
> at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter
> only read about
> 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware
> version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking
> at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all
> assistance is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas.
>
> -- Ian
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA EM74ua
> [hidden email]
> K3 #281, P3 #688
> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill K9YEQ

Re: New Output Power Issue

That should be "sag" .

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:32 AM
To: 'Ian Kahn - Ham'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue

Ian,

Does the rig voltage sage when transmitting?

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue

Ron,

With all due respect, this 40-watt power loss is noted in a watt meter
connected directly to the ANT1 output on my K3, and then directly to a
300-watt dummy load. There is nothing else in between to cause a power
drop. Where else would you recommend I look for the source of my problem,
if not in the transceiver itself?

40 watts may only be about 1/3 of an S-unit, but that isn't the point.
The point is that my rig is not performing as it should. I would like to fix
the issue, in the most cost- and time-effective manner possible. If there
are tests I can run to help isolate the problem, I'm open to suggestions.

Thank you.

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

correctly.

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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: New Output Power Issue

In reply to this post by Jack Berry

Several people suggested I run the "Calibrate transmitter gain" on my
rig, which I'll do. But I have one question about the calibration that
hopefully someone here can answer - does it matter what frquency/portion
of the band I'm in on each band when I run the calibration test? Or do
I just need to be somewhere in-band on each band?

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and assistance. If my rig
passes this calibration test, there are a few other things that have
been suggested which I'll check.

73 and Merry Christmas to all!

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

Jack Berry

Re: New Output Power Issue

The utility takes care of all that for you. Just click & watch.

God Bless & 73!
Jack - WE5ST

________________________________
From: Ian Kahn - Ham <[hidden email]>
To: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]>
Cc: 'Jack Berry' <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue

Several people suggested I run the "Calibrate transmitter gain" on my
rig, which I'll do. But I have one question about the calibration that
hopefully someone here can answer - does it matter what frquency/portion
of the band I'm in on each band when I run the calibration test? Or do
I just need to be somewhere in-band on each band?

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and assistance. If my rig
passes this calibration test, there are a few other things that have
been suggested which I'll check.

73 and Merry Christmas to all!

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: New Output Power Issue

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Ian,

If you use K3 Utility to do that calibration, if there is a need to set
a specific frequency, I am certain the Utility does it for you.

73 & Happy Holidays to all (Merry Christmas for those of us who
celebrate it),
Don W3FPR

On 12/23/2012 4:28 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:

> Several people suggested I run the "Calibrate transmitter gain" on my
> rig, which I'll do. But I have one question about the calibration
> that hopefully someone here can answer - does it matter what
> frquency/portion of the band I'm in on each band when I run the
> calibration test? Or do I just need to be somewhere in-band on each
> band?
>
> Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and assistance. If my rig
> passes this calibration test, there are a few other things that have
> been suggested which I'll check.

ke9uw

Re: New Output Power Issue

Could it be/affect a 40% difference?

Chuck, KE9UW
Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Don Wilhelm [[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 3:51 PM
To: Ian Kahn - Ham
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue

Ian,

If you use K3 Utility to do that calibration, if there is a need to set
a specific frequency, I am certain the Utility does it for you.

73 & Happy Holidays to all (Merry Christmas for those of us who
celebrate it),
Don W3FPR

On 12/23/2012 4:28 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:

Chuck, KE9UW

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: New Output Power Issue

Chuck,

It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain
Calibration.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
> Could it be/affect a 40% difference?
>
> Chuck, KE9UW
> Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC
> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224
>

______________________________________________________________
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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: New Output Power Issue

Update on my low output issue:

I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with
flying colors.

I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to
tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the
rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V.

All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load.

Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the
PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is
there anything else I should test while my station is still all together
in one piece?

Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas!

73,

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain
> Calibration.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>> Could it be/affect a 40% difference?
>>
>> Chuck, KE9UW
>> Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC
>> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: New Output Power Issue

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

One other thing I forgot to mention in my last post - when I change
bands, I get the message "GEX" on the display of my K3. I can't find a
reference to that message in my K3 owner's manual, Fred Cady's book, or
the Elecraft web site. Can anyone shed any meaning on what that message
means? I'm wondering if it might be pointing me toward solving my issue.

Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas.

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Lyle Johnson

Re: New Output Power Issue

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Using a DVM or other self-contained voltmeter, measure the voltage at
the power supply end of the cable during Rx and Tx. Is the voltage drop
small (under 1/2 volt)?

Measure the voltage at the radio end of the cable (using the same
voltmeter) during Tx and Rx. Compare it to the K3 voltmeter. The
difference between the two voltages should be almost constant, with
perhaps a couple tenths of a volt greater difference when in Tx. Is the
excessive voltage drop occuring across the cable? Might it be poorly or
improperly mated Anderson power-pole connections? Or loose connections
at the power supply? Are you using a power distribution box like a
RigRunner? Is the drop occuring there?

The most common cause of this sort of problem is the cabling --
including connectors -- between the power supply and the radio.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> Update on my low output issue:
>
> I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with
> flying colors.
>
> I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to
> tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the
> rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V.
>
> All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load.
>
> Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on
> the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod
> performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is
> still all together in one piece?
>
> Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas!
>
> 73,
>
> --Ian
>
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA EM74ua
> [hidden email]
> K3 #281, P3 #688
> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
>
> On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Chuck,
>>
>> It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain
>> Calibration.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>>> Could it be/affect a 40% difference?
>>>
>>> Chuck, KE9UW
>>> Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC
>>> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: New Output Power Issue

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Ian,

With that much voltage drop, I would strongly recommend you look at your
power supply and the power cable to the K3.

First measure the drop while transmitting right at the power supply. If
you have significant sag there, either your power supply is marginal or
the output terminals at its output may not be tight (on most power
supplies that means the inner nut is loose. Also make sure the cable is
tightly clamped at the power supply end.

At the K3 end, examine the APP connector. Look into the end and make
sure the contact blade is fully latched over the spring finger. If the
APP feels like it is not holding to the mating connector on the K3 with
adequate pressure, then suspect incorrect assembly of one or the other
of the APP connectors (check the APP mounted on the K3 too).

The conductors in the power cable should be of an adequate size to carry
the current. US wire gauge #12 conductors or larger should be used.
That is what is supplied by Elecraft.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/24/2012 10:18 AM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:

Jack Berry

Re: New Output Power Issue

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Ian,

Google didn't find anything on the GEX error when I looked. I searched the Nabble archives and didn't find it there either.
Elecraft support should have that answer.

This is out of my pay grade but I would suspect the power supply rather than the radio. I say that because I don't see that drop on my K3 and you had the edge connector mod done.

Do you have another power supply or 12 volt battery you could try or borrow one?

God Bless & 73!
Jack - WE5ST

________________________________
From: Ian Kahn - Ham <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue

One other thing I forgot to mention in my last post - when I change
bands, I get the message "GEX" on the display of my K3. I can't find a
reference to that message in my K3 owner's manual, Fred Cady's book, or
the Elecraft web site. Can anyone shed any meaning on what that message
means? I'm wondering if it might be pointing me toward solving my issue.

Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas.

--Ian
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: New Output Power Issue

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don/all,

It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of
this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over
4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to
.82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power
meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70
watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to
Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W
drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas.

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/24/2012 10:46 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Ian,
>
> With that much voltage drop, I would strongly recommend you look at
> your power supply and the power cable to the K3.
>
> First measure the drop while transmitting right at the power supply.
> If you have significant sag there, either your power supply is
> marginal or the output terminals at its output may not be tight (on
> most power supplies that means the inner nut is loose. Also make sure
> the cable is tightly clamped at the power supply end.
>
> At the K3 end, examine the APP connector. Look into the end and make
> sure the contact blade is fully latched over the spring finger. If
> the APP feels like it is not holding to the mating connector on the K3
> with adequate pressure, then suspect incorrect assembly of one or the
> other of the APP connectors (check the APP mounted on the K3 too).
>
> The conductors in the power cable should be of an adequate size to
> carry the current. US wire gauge #12 conductors or larger should be
> used. That is what is supplied by Elecraft.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 12/24/2012 10:18 AM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:
>> Update on my low output issue:
>>
>> I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed
>> with flying colors.
>>
>> I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx
>> to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across
>> the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V.
>>
>> All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load.
>>
>> Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on
>> the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod
>> performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is
>> still all together in one piece?
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> --Ian
>>
>> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
>> Roswell, GA EM74ua
>> [hidden email]
>> K3 #281, P3 #688
>> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
>>
>> On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain
>>> Calibration.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>>>> Could it be/affect a 40% difference?
>>>>
>>>> Chuck, KE9UW
>>>> Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC
>>>> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>

M0AFJ

Re: New Output Power Issue

I'd check the accuracy of the meter, with nearly 20A being drawn on TX, I'd expect 100W out of the rig...

Best regards, Tim Hague
Skype m0afj.Tim
Sent on my iPad

On 24 Dec 2012, at 16:51, Ian Kahn - Ham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don/all,
>
> It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas.
>
> --Ian
>
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA EM74ua
> [hidden email]
> K3 #281, P3 #688
> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
>
> On 12/24/2012 10:46 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Ian,
>>
>> With that much voltage drop, I would strongly recommend you look at your power supply and the power cable to the K3.
>>
>> First measure the drop while transmitting right at the power supply. If you have significant sag there, either your power supply is marginal or the output terminals at its output may not be tight (on most power supplies that means the inner nut is loose. Also make sure the cable is tightly clamped at the power supply end.
>>
>> At the K3 end, examine the APP connector. Look into the end and make sure the contact blade is fully latched over the spring finger. If the APP feels like it is not holding to the mating connector on the K3 with adequate pressure, then suspect incorrect assembly of one or the other of the APP connectors (check the APP mounted on the K3 too).
>>
>> The conductors in the power cable should be of an adequate size to carry the current. US wire gauge #12 conductors or larger should be used. That is what is supplied by Elecraft.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 12/24/2012 10:18 AM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:
>>> Update on my low output issue:
>>>
>>> I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with flying colors.
>>>
>>> I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V.
>>>
>>> All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load.
>>>
>>> Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is still all together in one piece?
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas!
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> --Ian
>>>
>>> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
>>> Roswell, GA EM74ua
>>> [hidden email]
>>> K3 #281, P3 #688
>>> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
>>>
>>> On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>>> Chuck,
>>>>
>>>> It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>
>>>> On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>>>>> Could it be/affect a 40% difference?
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck, KE9UW
>>>>> Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC
>>>>> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Lyle Johnson

Re: New Output Power Issue

Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the
internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external
wattmeter.

If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is
reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is
only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna
wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3
wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to
go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your
external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3
wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration.

BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light
gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March
> of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from
> over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is
> .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal
> power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows
> 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according
> to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W
> drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions?

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: New Output Power Issue

So, it looks like I tracked down my low output issue. The problem
appears to be with my West Mountain RigRunner, not my K3. A big "thank
you" to all who offered guidance on getting this thing tested and
troubleshot.

Thank you, 73, es Merry Christmas!

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 12/24/2012 12:22 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote:

> Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the
> internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the
> external wattmeter.
>
> If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is
> reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is
> only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna
> wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3
> wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to
> go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN
> your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the
> K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration.
>
> BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light
> gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter
> accuracy.
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P
>
>> It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March
>> of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from
>> over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is
>> .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the
>> internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load
>> only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look
>> normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still
>> concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other
>> suggestions?
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: New Output Power Issue

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Ian,

Any chance of borrowing another wattmeter for a sanity check on your
external meter?
It sounds like your external meter may be reading quite low.
19.8 amps on TX would indicate 100 watts or greater output.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/24/2012 11:51 AM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:

> Don/all,
>
> It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March
> of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from
> over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is
> .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal
> power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows
> 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according
> to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a
> 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas.

123