New product idea for Elecraft...?

[Emory Schley]

Ron, AC7AC, wrote, under another subject heading: "I'm not bothered by choosing between a dozen switches but sorting through half a dozen menu items to change one gives me a headache."
 
That pretty much sums up my attitude as well, and I've heard other hams– MANY other hams–  complain about menus, but I don't recall ever hearing anyone complain about excess knobs, buttons, dials, etc. Reading Ron's thoughts made me wonder out loud, why can't Elecraft or some third party make a "magic box" that would be completely impotent by itself, but with the capability to mate up to one of these small miniaturized wonders like the KX2 or KX3, and which would contain oodles of manual controls for virtually every function the parent rig is capable of providing?
 
This would NOT impact the normal functioning of the parent rig, but would act as an accessory for those who eschew menus and such, and who like their rigs bigger, bulkier and in more traditional formats. I envision a box of switches, buttons, knobs, perhaps even gauges that would be cable-fed (or wi-fied) from the little parent rig sitting behind the magic box. Its size would be whatever was necessary to accommodate the design and would resemble a normal-sized base station. You could conceivably have a separate control for each function the parent rig provides, or if logic dictated, then several controls might be multi-purpose.
 
Then an op could have the best of both worlds. He/she could use his/her KX2/KX3 as a portable rig in the normal way, but when returned to the home station, it could be plugged back into the magic box to power it in a more expansive and convenient manner.
 
Elecraft seems to always be on the lookout for new products. Here's one they might be able to put on the market, up and running, quickly because most of the engineering has already been worked out for the parent rig.
 
Emory Schley
N4LP
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[Byron Servies]

Hi there!

Isn't this the niche the K-Pod was supposed to fill?  Fully
programmable external control with additional outputs for station
control?

73, Byron N6NUL
(sorry for the dup, Emory)

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Emory Schley <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Ron, AC7AC, wrote, under another subject heading: "I'm not bothered by choosing between a dozen switches but sorting through half a dozen menu items to change one gives me a headache."
>
> That pretty much sums up my attitude as well, and I've heard other hams– MANY other hams–  complain about menus, but I don't recall ever hearing anyone complain about excess knobs, buttons, dials, etc. Reading Ron's thoughts made me wonder out loud, why can't Elecraft or some third party make a "magic box" that would be completely impotent by itself, but with the capability to mate up to one of these small miniaturized wonders like the KX2 or KX3, and which would contain oodles of manual controls for virtually every function the parent rig is capable of providing?
>
> This would NOT impact the normal functioning of the parent rig, but would act as an accessory for those who eschew menus and such, and who like their rigs bigger, bulkier and in more traditional formats. I envision a box of switches, buttons, knobs, perhaps even gauges that would be cable-fed (or wi-fied) from the little parent rig sitting behind the magic box. Its size would be whatever was necessary to accommodate the design and would resemble a normal-sized base station. You could conceivably have a separate control for each function the parent rig provides, or if logic dictated, then several controls might be multi-purpose.
>
> Then an op could have the best of both worlds. He/she could use his/her KX2/KX3 as a portable rig in the normal way, but when returned to the home station, it could be plugged back into the magic box to power it in a more expansive and convenient manner.
>
> Elecraft seems to always be on the lookout for new products. Here's one they might be able to put on the market, up and running, quickly because most of the engineering has already been worked out for the parent rig.
>
> Emory Schley
> N4LP
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--
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 7-8 Oct 2017
- www.cqp.org
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[Dave Fugleberg]

Have you looked at Win4K3?
I realize it's not the hardware solution you wanted, but it does bring out
all the controls to a PC screen so you can point and click at pretty much
any of them rather than going through the menus on the radio...

I suppose one could build exactly what you proposed using a box of knobs,
switches, and meters connected to an Arduino or similar microcontroller,
which would talk to the radio via the serial port.

I actually did build a controller of sorts using a Arduino nano stuffed
inside an old optical mouse. I used the mouse wheel and buttons and
assigned them specific serial commands to send to the K3. Works pretty well
for its intended purpose. An expansion of that idea could likely give you
most of what you want.
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 8:09 PM Byron Servies <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi there!
>
> Isn't this the niche the K-Pod was supposed to fill?  Fully
> programmable external control with additional outputs for station
> control?
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
> (sorry for the dup, Emory)
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Emory Schley <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Ron, AC7AC, wrote, under another subject heading: "I'm not bothered by
> choosing between a dozen switches but sorting through half a dozen menu
> items to change one gives me a headache."
> >
> > That pretty much sums up my attitude as well, and I've heard other hams–
> MANY other hams–  complain about menus, but I don't recall ever hearing
> anyone complain about excess knobs, buttons, dials, etc. Reading Ron's
> thoughts made me wonder out loud, why can't Elecraft or some third party
> make a "magic box" that would be completely impotent by itself, but with
> the capability to mate up to one of these small miniaturized wonders like
> the KX2 or KX3, and which would contain oodles of manual controls for
> virtually every function the parent rig is capable of providing?
> >
> > This would NOT impact the normal functioning of the parent rig, but
> would act as an accessory for those who eschew menus and such, and who like
> their rigs bigger, bulkier and in more traditional formats. I envision a
> box of switches, buttons, knobs, perhaps even gauges that would be
> cable-fed (or wi-fied) from the little parent rig sitting behind the magic
> box. Its size would be whatever was necessary to accommodate the design and
> would resemble a normal-sized base station. You could conceivably have a
> separate control for each function the parent rig provides, or if logic
> dictated, then several controls might be multi-purpose.
> >
> > Then an op could have the best of both worlds. He/she could use his/her
> KX2/KX3 as a portable rig in the normal way, but when returned to the home
> station, it could be plugged back into the magic box to power it in a more
> expansive and convenient manner.
> >
> > Elecraft seems to always be on the lookout for new products. Here's one
> they might be able to put on the market, up and running, quickly because
> most of the engineering has already been worked out for the parent rig.
> >
> > Emory Schley
> > N4LP
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
>
>
> --
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 7-8 Oct 2017
> - www.cqp.org
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[Don Wilhelm]

During normal operation, the controls on the front of the K3/K3S will
have all the control that is needed.  There is no need to drill down
into the menu for operation.

The menu is normally for setup of your K3 which can be customized to
your preferences before any serious operating events.

I wonder what form of operating you are doing that requires constant
access to the menu system.

The K-Pod was not intended to alter the menu settings, it is an
accessory that allows the operator (primarily contester of DXer) who
uses a keyboard to reach the commonly used controls (VFO A, VFO B and
RIT) without moving the hands to the radio - it is only a small distance
to move the hand from the keyboard to the K-Pod.

Yes, the K-Pod can initiate up to 16 K3 Macros via the buttons.  What
those macros may be are defined by the user.

So if you are constantly using the menu system for some adjustments
during normal operation, it would be wise to write macros that access
that menu item(s) from a K-Pod button tap or hold.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/26/2017 9:08 PM, Byron Servies wrote:
> Hi there!
>
> Isn't this the niche the K-Pod was supposed to fill?  Fully
> programmable external control with additional outputs for station
> control?
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
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[David Gilbert]

I don't understand the need for all that menu access in the first place
for normal operating.  I've literally operated complete major contests
(CQWW, ARRL DX, etc) without ever changing anything in the menu, and
that covers dramatic changes in operating conditions (propagation, QRN,
QRM, etc).  Yes, I played around with many of the settings when I first
got my K3, but once I settled on what I felt were the optimum settings
for the majority of my operations I haven't touched them since.  
Everything I need to change on the fly is already right there on the
front panel.

The fact that there are lots of deep options doesn't mean it makes sense
to have to constantly diddle with them.

Dave   AB7E


On 9/26/2017 5:49 PM, Emory Schley wrote:

> Ron, AC7AC, wrote, under another subject heading: "I'm not bothered by choosing between a dozen switches but sorting through half a dozen menu items to change one gives me a headache."
>  
> That pretty much sums up my attitude as well, and I've heard other hams– MANY other hams–  complain about menus, but I don't recall ever hearing anyone complain about excess knobs, buttons, dials, etc. Reading Ron's thoughts made me wonder out loud, why can't Elecraft or some third party make a "magic box" that would be completely impotent by itself, but with the capability to mate up to one of these small miniaturized wonders like the KX2 or KX3, and which would contain oodles of manual controls for virtually every function the parent rig is capable of providing?
>  
> This would NOT impact the normal functioning of the parent rig, but would act as an accessory for those who eschew menus and such, and who like their rigs bigger, bulkier and in more traditional formats. I envision a box of switches, buttons, knobs, perhaps even gauges that would be cable-fed (or wi-fied) from the little parent rig sitting behind the magic box. Its size would be whatever was necessary to accommodate the design and would resemble a normal-sized base station. You could conceivably have a separate control for each function the parent rig provides, or if logic dictated, then several controls might be multi-purpose.
>  
> Then an op could have the best of both worlds. He/she could use his/her KX2/KX3 as a portable rig in the normal way, but when returned to the home station, it could be plugged back into the magic box to power it in a more expansive and convenient manner.
>  
> Elecraft seems to always be on the lookout for new products. Here's one they might be able to put on the market, up and running, quickly because most of the engineering has already been worked out for the parent rig.
>  
> Emory Schley
> N4LP
> ______________________________________________________________
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[NK7Z]

Emory,
Check out:

http://nk7z.net/adding-external-keypad-k3/

This is a short how to to add a 64 key keypad to the K3/P3, and fire off
macros to it via that keypad.

You preload the Pr with Macros, and then use the external keypad to fire
them off to the radio/panadaptor.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net
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[Bill-3]

I will second what David said - check out his website. I have one and it
does 98% of my hands on with the K3. You can fully customize the 48
controls to suit your specific needs. Best addition to the K3 I ever made.

Bill W2BLC

--
Many of life's problems can be solved by simply deciding what
we can do without. - John Dolan

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[briancom]

Byron,

Absolutely not.  Functionality of KPOD is way too limited.

I think what he is envisioning is something like an optional detachable
or attachable face plate (like the TS480) has.  It may be huge in size
and for example might have individual band buttons, lots of knobs for
other functions and maybe single function push button instead to
press/tap multifunction buttons.  Maybe most of the buttons could be
customized.

Such an offering could satisfy both worlds.  One world doesn't think
they need any hardware interface and wants to run everything by
computer.  The second world prefers a more traditional knob/button
interface. Keep in mind the demographics.  Closely spaced small buttons
and knobs are difficult for many older people to use.  Reading the small
captions is also an issue.

The design of such a detachable interface that satisfies most would be a
challenge.  It may be that there needs to be several different sized
offerings.  Market size may be a real issue.

In either case, there would be no escape from some menus.  There is
simply too much functionality to put everything on a hardware interface.

Keep in mind the FLEX history.  It started out as all computer control.
Then they developed the Maestro hardware interface because many found
the all computer interface lacking.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 9/27/2017 1:08 AM, Byron Servies wrote:

> Hi there!
>
> Isn't this the niche the K-Pod was supposed to fill?  Fully
> programmable external control with additional outputs for station
> control?
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
> (sorry for the dup, Emory)
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Emory Schley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Ron, AC7AC, wrote, under another subject heading: "I'm not bothered by choosing between a dozen switches but sorting through half a dozen menu items to change one gives me a headache."
>>
>> That pretty much sums up my attitude as well, and I've heard other hams– MANY other hams–  complain about menus, but I don't recall ever hearing anyone complain about excess knobs, buttons, dials, etc. Reading Ron's thoughts made me wonder out loud, why can't Elecraft or some third party make a "magic box" that would be completely impotent by itself, but with the capability to mate up to one of these small miniaturized wonders like the KX2 or KX3, and which would contain oodles of manual controls for virtually every function the parent rig is capable of providing?
>>
>> This would NOT impact the normal functioning of the parent rig, but would act as an accessory for those who eschew menus and such, and who like their rigs bigger, bulkier and in more traditional formats. I envision a box of switches, buttons, knobs, perhaps even gauges that would be cable-fed (or wi-fied) from the little parent rig sitting behind the magic box. Its size would be whatever was necessary to accommodate the design and would resemble a normal-sized base station. You could conceivably have a separate control for each function the parent rig provides, or if logic dictated, then several controls might be multi-purpose.
>>
>> Then an op could have the best of both worlds. He/she could use his/her KX2/KX3 as a portable rig in the normal way, but when returned to the home station, it could be plugged back into the magic box to power it in a more expansive and convenient manner.
>>
>> Elecraft seems to always be on the lookout for new products. Here's one they might be able to put on the market, up and running, quickly because most of the engineering has already been worked out for the parent rig.
>>
>> Emory Schley
>> N4LP
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>
>
>

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[kevino z]

I guess if every menu item had an applicable CAT command, it could be feasible. But I don’t think they all do, do they?
-Kevin (KK4YEL)

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced !

On Sep 27, 2017, at 07:52, brian <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

Byron,

Absolutely not.  Functionality of KPOD is way too limited.

I think what he is envisioning is something like an optional detachable or attachable face plate (like the TS480) has.  It may be huge in size and for example might have individual band buttons, lots of knobs for other functions and maybe single function push button instead to press/tap multifunction buttons.  Maybe most of the buttons could be customized.

Such an offering could satisfy both worlds.  One world doesn't think they need any hardware interface and wants to run everything by computer.  The second world prefers a more traditional knob/button interface. Keep in mind the demographics.  Closely spaced small buttons and knobs are difficult for many older people to use.  Reading the small captions is also an issue.

The design of such a detachable interface that satisfies most would be a challenge.  It may be that there needs to be several different sized offerings.  Market size may be a real issue.

In either case, there would be no escape from some menus.  There is simply too much functionality to put everything on a hardware interface.

Keep in mind the FLEX history.  It started out as all computer control. Then they developed the Maestro hardware interface because many found the all computer interface lacking.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 9/27/2017 1:08 AM, Byron Servies wrote:
Hi there!

Isn't this the niche the K-Pod was supposed to fill?  Fully
programmable external control with additional outputs for station
control?

73, Byron N6NUL
(sorry for the dup, Emory)

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Emory Schley <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

Ron, AC7AC, wrote, under another subject heading: "I'm not bothered by choosing between a dozen switches but sorting through half a dozen menu items to change one gives me a headache."

That pretty much sums up my attitude as well, and I've heard other hams– MANY other hams–  complain about menus, but I don't recall ever hearing anyone complain about excess knobs, buttons, dials, etc. Reading Ron's thoughts made me wonder out loud, why can't Elecraft or some third party make a "magic box" that would be completely impotent by itself, but with the capability to mate up to one of these small miniaturized wonders like the KX2 or KX3, and which would contain oodles of manual controls for virtually every function the parent rig is capable of providing?

This would NOT impact the normal functioning of the parent rig, but would act as an accessory for those who eschew menus and such, and who like their rigs bigger, bulkier and in more traditional formats. I envision a box of switches, buttons, knobs, perhaps even gauges that would be cable-fed (or wi-fied) from the little parent rig sitting behind the magic box. Its size would be whatever was necessary to accommodate the design and would resemble a normal-sized base station. You could conceivably have a separate control for each function the parent rig provides, or if logic dictated, then several controls might be multi-purpose.

Then an op could have the best of both worlds. He/she could use his/her KX2/KX3 as a portable rig in the normal way, but when returned to the home station, it could be plugged back into the magic box to power it in a more expansive and convenient manner.

Elecraft seems to always be on the lookout for new products. Here's one they might be able to put on the market, up and running, quickly because most of the engineering has already been worked out for the parent rig.

Emory Schley
N4LP
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[Wes Stewart-2]

Have you never turned on VOX when you meant to change bands? Or set up VFO A and
B to split frequencies and then accidentally (and unknowingly) written A to B
when you tried to turn on Split?  Your Split indicator gives you comfort but
you're still transmitting on the DX.  Probably half the, "He's split you moron"
comments in pileups are directed at K3 owners. And don't even get me started
about memory management.

So I bought a KPod.  I'll spare you the agony of reading about the tribulations
I had with that. It took me making a video clip of the malfunction to convince
Elecraft that the issue I was seeing was real.  Fixed with new firmware in the
K3S not the KPod. Nevertheless it's a promise unfulfilled.  It's simply a
trigger for macros you have to write and save in the limited space for macros in
the radio.  The KPod doesn't save anything.

The other aftermarket keypad solution requires that you own a P3.

I don't mind things infrequently accessed being buried in menus. But how about a
knob to change bands?  We have a couple of knobs for fine frequency adjustment,
why not one for coarse adjustment?

Wes  N7WS

On 9/26/2017 11:29 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

>
> I don't understand the need for all that menu access in the first place for
> normal operating.  I've literally operated complete major contests (CQWW, ARRL
> DX, etc) without ever changing anything in the menu, and that covers dramatic
> changes in operating conditions (propagation, QRN, QRM, etc).  Yes, I played
> around with many of the settings when I first got my K3, but once I settled on
> what I felt were the optimum settings for the majority of my operations I
> haven't touched them since.  Everything I need to change on the fly is already
> right there on the front panel.
>
> The fact that there are lots of deep options doesn't mean it makes sense to
> have to constantly diddle with them.
>
> Dave   AB7E
>
>
> On 9/26/2017 5:49 PM, Emory Schley wrote:
>> Ron, AC7AC, wrote, under another subject heading: "I'm not bothered by
>> choosing between a dozen switches but sorting through half a dozen menu items
>> to change one gives me a headache."
>>   That pretty much sums up my attitude as well, and I've heard other hams–
>> MANY other hams–  complain about menus, but I don't recall ever hearing
>> anyone complain about excess knobs, buttons, dials, etc. Reading Ron's
>> thoughts made me wonder out loud, why can't Elecraft or some third party make
>> a "magic box" that would be completely impotent by itself, but with the
>> capability to mate up to one of these small miniaturized wonders like the KX2
>> or KX3, and which would contain oodles of manual controls for virtually every
>> function the parent rig is capable of providing?
>>   This would NOT impact the normal functioning of the parent rig, but would
>> act as an accessory for those who eschew menus and such, and who like their
>> rigs bigger, bulkier and in more traditional formats. I envision a box of
>> switches, buttons, knobs, perhaps even gauges that would be cable-fed (or
>> wi-fied) from the little parent rig sitting behind the magic box. Its size
>> would be whatever was necessary to accommodate the design and would resemble
>> a normal-sized base station. You could conceivably have a separate control
>> for each function the parent rig provides, or if logic dictated, then several
>> controls might be multi-purpose.
>>   Then an op could have the best of both worlds. He/she could use his/her
>> KX2/KX3 as a portable rig in the normal way, but when returned to the home
>> station, it could be plugged back into the magic box to power it in a more
>> expansive and convenient manner.
>>   Elecraft seems to always be on the lookout for new products. Here's one
>> they might be able to put on the market, up and running, quickly because most
>> of the engineering has already been worked out for the parent rig.
>>   Emory Schley
>> N4LP
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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[Elecraft mailing list]

Hi,
It is written in the manual (p. 39) that:
"Roofing Filter Configuration for SSB Mode: Roofing filter FL2 (3 kHz) can be
inserted when the upper edge of the receive passband reaches either 2.4 kHz
(default value) or 2.9 kHz. When the passband edge is higher than this, FL1 is
used (wide filter). (If no KXFL1 is installed, FL1 is always used.)"
Indeed, when I set it to 2.9kHz the FL2 switches exactly at that point. But when I set it to 2.4kHz, the FL2 switches at 1.7kHz. I made a video clip showing that: https://youtu.be/bh3xZxrxhko.
Is there any explanation?
Thanks,Mike AB3VN
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[Arthur Nienhouse]

*/I second the motion an Elecraft Maestro full featured with buttons
knobs for functions like a normal radio,  point and click computer
interface as well  and wifi hook up is all good.
Regards
Art
ka9zap
/*
On 9/27/2017 6:51 AM, brian wrote:

> Byron,
>
> Absolutely not.  Functionality of KPOD is way too limited.
>
> I think what he is envisioning is something like an optional
> detachable or attachable face plate (like the TS480) has.  It may be
> huge in size and for example might have individual band buttons, lots
> of knobs for other functions and maybe single function push button
> instead to press/tap multifunction buttons. Maybe most of the buttons
> could be customized.
>
> Such an offering could satisfy both worlds.  One world doesn't think
> they need any hardware interface and wants to run everything by
> computer.  The second world prefers a more traditional knob/button
> interface. Keep in mind the demographics.  Closely spaced small
> buttons and knobs are difficult for many older people to use.  Reading
> the small captions is also an issue.
>
> The design of such a detachable interface that satisfies most would be
> a challenge.  It may be that there needs to be several different sized
> offerings.  Market size may be a real issue.
>
> In either case, there would be no escape from some menus.  There is
> simply too much functionality to put everything on a hardware interface.
>
> Keep in mind the FLEX history.  It started out as all computer
> control. Then they developed the Maestro hardware interface because
> many found the all computer interface lacking.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO

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[Bill Breeden]

I guess that's the beauty of a complete K line station.  I change bands
with the buttons on the KPA500 and verify that I'm not transmitting on
the DX by observing the cursors on the P3.  After setting up the K3 the
way I wanted it, I now access the menus less than once a month.

73,

Bill - NA5DX


On 9/27/2017 7:39 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Have you never turned on VOX when you meant to change bands? Or set up
> VFO A and B to split frequencies and then accidentally (and
> unknowingly) written A to B when you tried to turn on Split?  Your
> Split indicator gives you comfort but you're still transmitting on the
> DX.  Probably half the, "He's split you moron" comments in pileups are
> directed at K3 owners. And don't even get me started about memory
> management.
>
> So I bought a KPod.  I'll spare you the agony of reading about the
> tribulations I had with that. It took me making a video clip of the
> malfunction to convince Elecraft that the issue I was seeing was
> real.  Fixed with new firmware in the K3S not the KPod. Nevertheless
> it's a promise unfulfilled.  It's simply a trigger for macros you have
> to write and save in the limited space for macros in the radio.  The
> KPod doesn't save anything.
>
> The other aftermarket keypad solution requires that you own a P3.
>
> I don't mind things infrequently accessed being buried in menus. But
> how about a knob to change bands?  We have a couple of knobs for fine
> frequency adjustment, why not one for coarse adjustment?
>
> Wes  N7WS
>
> On 9/26/2017 11:29 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand the need for all that menu access in the first
>> place for normal operating.  I've literally operated complete major
>> contests (CQWW, ARRL DX, etc) without ever changing anything in the
>> menu, and that covers dramatic changes in operating conditions
>> (propagation, QRN, QRM, etc).  Yes, I played around with many of the
>> settings when I first got my K3, but once I settled on what I felt
>> were the optimum settings for the majority of my operations I haven't
>> touched them since. Everything I need to change on the fly is already
>> right there on the front panel.
>>
>> The fact that there are lots of deep options doesn't mean it makes
>> sense to have to constantly diddle with them.
>>
>> Dave   AB7E
>>
>>
>> On 9/26/2017 5:49 PM, Emory Schley wrote:
>>> Ron, AC7AC, wrote, under another subject heading: "I'm not bothered
>>> by choosing between a dozen switches but sorting through half a
>>> dozen menu items to change one gives me a headache."
>>>   That pretty much sums up my attitude as well, and I've heard other
>>> hams– MANY other hams–  complain about menus, but I don't recall
>>> ever hearing anyone complain about excess knobs, buttons, dials,
>>> etc. Reading Ron's thoughts made me wonder out loud, why can't
>>> Elecraft or some third party make a "magic box" that would be
>>> completely impotent by itself, but with the capability to mate up to
>>> one of these small miniaturized wonders like the KX2 or KX3, and
>>> which would contain oodles of manual controls for virtually every
>>> function the parent rig is capable of providing?
>>>   This would NOT impact the normal functioning of the parent rig,
>>> but would act as an accessory for those who eschew menus and such,
>>> and who like their rigs bigger, bulkier and in more traditional
>>> formats. I envision a box of switches, buttons, knobs, perhaps even
>>> gauges that would be cable-fed (or wi-fied) from the little parent
>>> rig sitting behind the magic box. Its size would be whatever was
>>> necessary to accommodate the design and would resemble a
>>> normal-sized base station. You could conceivably have a separate
>>> control for each function the parent rig provides, or if logic
>>> dictated, then several controls might be multi-purpose.
>>>   Then an op could have the best of both worlds. He/she could use
>>> his/her KX2/KX3 as a portable rig in the normal way, but when
>>> returned to the home station, it could be plugged back into the
>>> magic box to power it in a more expansive and convenient manner.
>>>   Elecraft seems to always be on the lookout for new products.
>>> Here's one they might be able to put on the market, up and running,
>>> quickly because most of the engineering has already been worked out
>>> for the parent rig.
>>>   Emory Schley
>>> N4LP
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[Jim Brown-10]

Yep. The most I've ever had to do is tweak VOX level, and that's VERY
rare. I plug my Yamaha CM500 into the rear panel, which, by default,
mutes the speaker, so I have the Speaker * Phones toggle assigned to a
PF key. Since 2008, I've not found a need for the other PF key. Maybe
it's VOX level. :)

I LOVE the lightweight, small footprint design of the K3 -- when I
replaced a pair of FT1000MPs on my very cramped operating desk, it gave
me lots of space for useful accessories. I agree with Ken Kopp -- if you
want a big boat, buy one. :)

73, Jim K9YC

  On 9/26/2017 11:29 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
> I don't understand the need for all that menu access in the first
> place for normal operating.  I've literally operated complete major
> contests (CQWW, ARRL DX, etc) without ever changing anything in the
> menu, and that covers dramatic changes in operating conditions
> (propagation, QRN, QRM, etc).  Yes, I played around with many of the
> settings when I first got my K3, but once I settled on what I felt
> were the optimum settings for the majority of my operations I haven't
> touched them since.  Everything I need to change on the fly is already
> right there on the front panel.


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[k4vd]

​I don't see a problem with Elecraft or any manufacturer expanding their
line if they've identified a market and regardless of their current
products. To say otherwise would be like telling Yaesu they shouldn't come
out with a lightweight portable rig with buried menus because Yaesu users
only like big rigs with many knobs. How does one affect the other?

Ya, I like (maybe a little more than like) my KX3 but because of that I'd
be seriously interested in any rig Elecraft brought to the market. Smaller
or larger.

If you want a big boat, buy one. Except Elecraft doesn't have one so take
your money elsewhere? Odd message.

73,
Kev K4VD
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[Wes Stewart-2]

Exactly.  We heard for years that manufacturing legal limit amplifiers wasn't a
market Elecraft wanted to enter.  Whoops, hello KPA1500.

Wes  N7WS

On 9/27/2017 12:18 PM, Kevin der Kinderen wrote:

> ​I don't see a problem with Elecraft or any manufacturer expanding their
> line if they've identified a market and regardless of their current
> products. To say otherwise would be like telling Yaesu they shouldn't come
> out with a lightweight portable rig with buried menus because Yaesu users
> only like big rigs with many knobs. How does one affect the other?
>
> Ya, I like (maybe a little more than like) my KX3 but because of that I'd
> be seriously interested in any rig Elecraft brought to the market. Smaller
> or larger.
>
> If you want a big boat, buy one. Except Elecraft doesn't have one so take
> your money elsewhere? Odd message.
>
> 73,
> Kev K4VD

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[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Between my operation of SSB, CW and digital modes, I find the radio
makes all the changes necessary as I change modes and bands.   Thus once
configured as I operate, no changes to any menu's are needed.

One thing I did conclude...........the radio is a lot smarter than I
am.  Thanks Wayne, Eric and the crew for such a great design and
implementation.

73

Bob, K4TAX





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[w7aqk]

Hi All,

I generally am pretty reticent to take issue with my “Tucson Compadre” West, N7WS, as he most often is making very good points.  However, I think he exaggerates a bit (perhaps intentionally) in attributing so much of the split operation error to K3 owners.  There are a lot of us, but not even remotely close to being that many of us!!  I tend to attribute that error, more than anything, to the lost art of “mentoring”.  Too many hams these days have never been effectively schooled in proper/normal operating procedures, and have no clue as to the meaning of the simple term “UP”!  

Admittedly, there have been occasions when I was guilty of the sin mentioned, but only momentarily.  The K3 does have the “delta F” light to warn you, and the display does indicate “split”.  I do wish both were more obvious.  Externally it looks like there might have been sufficient room to make both of those LED’s bigger and brighter.  The “split” indicator on the LCD could be bigger as well!  That would be a very good enhancement.  Is that possible through firmware?

If there is a problem with the K3, I think it can be attributed to the trade-off between rig size and display size.  I, for one, am happy with a smaller piece of gear on my desk, but I must admit that some of the display info is pretty difficult for these old eyes to see clearly.  

I’m inclined to agree with those who don’t feel the K3 requires an inordinate amount of menu accessing.  I think Elecraft did a marvelous job of putting most needed adjustments right on the front panel.  I have had a much bigger problem in this respect with other rig brands.  Of course, the urge to make rigs smaller caused much of this, but even some very big rigs have this problem.  The Ten-Tec Orion II is a good example.  It has a big, beautiful display, and lots of panel space, but still you need to make several button pushes to make very commonly needed changes like power level and keyer speed.  Both of these are instant adjustments on the K3’s front panel.  

Most rigs these days are fairly complex and versatile.  Some are unduly complex or convoluted, but I don’t think that applies to the K3.  However, if you reach for a knob or a button on any of these rigs, you better be paying attention!  I think most operator errors are due to just that, and not to design issues.  If something on your K3 doesn’t sound or act right, take a good, hard look at your display and panel indicators.  The answer is probably right there in front of you!  How many times have we seen a response like ‘Are you on antenna 1 or antenna 2?”

Dave W7AQK






----------------------------------------
From: Wes Stewart <[hidden email]>

Have you never turned on VOX when you meant to change bands? Or set up VFO A and
B to split frequencies and then accidentally (and unknowingly) written A to B
when you tried to turn on Split?? Your Split indicator gives you comfort but
you're still transmitting on the DX.? Probably half the, "He's split you moron"
comments in pileups are directed at K3 owners. And don't even get me started
about memory management.

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[Bill Frantz]

Dave, W7AQK is absolutely right. Many of my early problems with
the K3 came from pushing a button without looking at the radio.

It also helps to learn what each of the items displayed on the
panel means, even the ones you don't think you need to know
about. You may have accidentally changed one an shot yourself in
the foot.

My last serious case of transmit on the DX frequency came
because my P3/SVGA display for the 2nd VFO looked red, even
though I wasn't in split. The P3 colors were much clearer, but I
didn't look at the P3. Another ham called me on the telephone to
inform me of the error of my ways. (Thanks!) Now I check the
delta-F light and the SVGA.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 9/28/17 at 10:16 AM, [hidden email] (dyarnes) wrote:

>However, if you reach for a knob or a button on any of these
>rigs, you better be paying attention!  I think most operator
>errors are due to just that, and not to design issues.  If
>something on your K3 doesn’t sound or act right, take a good,
>hard look at your display and panel indicators.  The answer is
>probably right there in front of you!  How many times have we
>seen a response like ‘Are you on antenna 1 or antenna 2?”

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | The first thing you need when  | Periwinkle
[phone]      | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter.                     | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

One other point is the hams mentality ;   "I've operated hundreds of ham
radios and I know how this one works".  HA!   Better read the dang
manual two or three times.   Also the Fred Cady, KE7X has a wealth of
information not included in the standard Elecraft K3S Owner's Manual.

Regarding manuals, I've often thought when a person orders a new radio,
the manual should be shipped some 2 or 3 weeks to the buyer in advance,
before the radio ships.  Perhaps this would encourage one to learn a bit
more about the radio, as opposed to taking it out of the box, connecting
a few cables and start turning knobs and pushing buttons.  Then they
exclaim:  "uh, where did I put that manual because this dang thing
doesn't work."

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 9/28/2017 4:16 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

> Dave, W7AQK is absolutely right. Many of my early problems with the K3
> came from pushing a button without looking at the radio.
>
> It also helps to learn what each of the items displayed on the panel
> means, even the ones you don't think you need to know about. You may
> have accidentally changed one an shot yourself in the foot.
>
> My last serious case of transmit on the DX frequency came because my
> P3/SVGA display for the 2nd VFO looked red, even though I wasn't in
> split. The P3 colors were much clearer, but I didn't look at the P3.
> Another ham called me on the telephone to inform me of the error of my
> ways. (Thanks!) Now I check the delta-F light and the SVGA.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 9/28/17 at 10:16 AM, [hidden email] (dyarnes) wrote:
>
>> However, if you reach for a knob or a button on any of these rigs,
>> you better be paying attention!  I think most operator errors are due
>> to just that, and not to design issues.  If something on your K3
>> doesn’t sound or act right, take a good, hard look at your display
>> and panel indicators.  The answer is probably right there in front of
>> you!  How many times have we seen a response like ‘Are you on antenna
>> 1 or antenna 2?”
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz        | The first thing you need when  | Periwinkle
> [phone]      | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter.                     | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>
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