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Noise Reduction

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Jim Rogers, W4ATK

Noise Reduction

Personally I am quite happy with the solutions offered with the K3. I
had no problem finding the "sweet spot" for my noise environment. But
for those that wish more, take a look at this site. For a licensing
fee you can have BRIL .......

"BRIL is a new proprietary algorithm has been recently developed for
adaptively estimating and removing background noise from speech
signals. Unlike noise reduction and speech enhancement algorithms
currently available on the market, the new algorithm is capable of
cleaning noisy speech even in severe noisy environments without any
distortion to the speech signal. The algorithm has been successfully
used in many communication systems with high level of noise. BRIL is
suitable for many applications such as car kits, mobile telephony,
conferencing, speech recognition, Internet phones, etc."

They offer a demo where it seems you can play with setting various
parameters.

http://www.dspalgorithms.com/products/nr.html

JIM ROGERS
[hidden email]
http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk

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DaveL G3TJP

Re: Noise reduction

I had a listen to all the before and after samples on their website and
quite frankly, preferred the unprocessed audio in every case.

Could this be the result of listening to signal + noise for over half a
century?

73 DaveL G3TJP

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Guy, K2AV

Re: Noise Reduction

In reply to this post by Jim Rogers, W4ATK

Well, I listened to the demo's and to MY ears, it seemed ineffective,
removing the voice entirely at some points. The "cleaned" output was
harsh and very treble, and seemed little more than a high pass filter.
IMHO, this one is clearly inferior to the K3. If it was one of the
choices, it would be complained about a lot, though as completely
subjective as people are on this topic, some would probably like it.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:59 PM, JAMES ROGERS <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Personally I am quite happy with the solutions offered with the K3. I
> had no problem finding the "sweet spot" for my noise environment. But
> for those that wish more, take a look at this site. For a licensing
> fee you can have BRIL .......
>
> "BRIL is a new proprietary algorithm has been recently developed for
> adaptively estimating and removing background noise from speech
> signals. Unlike noise reduction and speech enhancement algorithms
> currently available on the market, the new algorithm is capable of
> cleaning noisy speech even in severe noisy environments without any
> distortion to the speech signal. The algorithm has been successfully
> used in many communication systems with high level of noise. BRIL is
> suitable for many applications such as car kits, mobile telephony,
> conferencing, speech recognition, Internet phones, etc."
>
> They offer a demo where it seems you can play with setting various
> parameters.
>
> http://www.dspalgorithms.com/products/nr.html
>
>
> JIM ROGERS
> [hidden email]
> http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Noise reduction

In reply to this post by DaveL G3TJP

Dave,

I have to agree.

Now, if the NR algorithms could only come close to the "speech in noise"
algorithms that are in my Phonak hearing aids, then that would be a
great accomplishment - good speech fidelity combined with great noise
reduction. - yes, it takes a short bit of time to determine what is
noise and what is speech, but it is very effective - most often used in
a noisy restaurant environment.

Unfortunately, I believe the algorithms are proprietary.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/30/2010 8:52 PM, David Lankshear wrote:
> I had a listen to all the before and after samples on their website and
> quite frankly, preferred the unprocessed audio in every case.
>
>
>
> Could this be the result of listening to signal + noise for over half a
> century?
>
>
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K2QI

Re: Noise Reduction

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Hi Guy,

I'd have to agree with you there. I think the algorithm used by the BHI
device sounds much better than the BRIL offering.

73,
James K2QI

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Well, I listened to the demo's and to MY ears, it seemed ineffective,
> removing the voice entirely at some points. The "cleaned" output was
> harsh and very treble, and seemed little more than a high pass filter.
> IMHO, this one is clearly inferior to the K3. If it was one of the
> choices, it would be complained about a lot, though as completely
> subjective as people are on this topic, some would probably like it.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:59 PM, JAMES ROGERS <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Personally I am quite happy with the solutions offered with the K3. I
> > had no problem finding the "sweet spot" for my noise environment. But
> > for those that wish more, take a look at this site. For a licensing
> > fee you can have BRIL .......
> >
> > "BRIL is a new proprietary algorithm has been recently developed for
> > adaptively estimating and removing background noise from speech
> > signals. Unlike noise reduction and speech enhancement algorithms
> > currently available on the market, the new algorithm is capable of
> > cleaning noisy speech even in severe noisy environments without any
> > distortion to the speech signal. The algorithm has been successfully
> > used in many communication systems with high level of noise. BRIL is
> > suitable for many applications such as car kits, mobile telephony,
> > conferencing, speech recognition, Internet phones, etc."
> >
> > They offer a demo where it seems you can play with setting various
> > parameters.
> >
> > http://www.dspalgorithms.com/products/nr.html
> >
> >
> > JIM ROGERS
> > [hidden email]
> > http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

--
73 de James K2QI
President UNARC/4U1UN
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--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

AC7AC

Re: Noise Reduction

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

k6dgw

Re: Noise reduction

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On 11/30/2010 6:53 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Now, if the NR algorithms could only come close to the "speech in noise"
> algorithms that are in my Phonak hearing aids, then that would be a
> great accomplishment - good speech fidelity combined with great noise
> reduction. - yes, it takes a short bit of time to determine what is
> noise and what is speech, but it is very effective - most often used in
> a noisy restaurant environment.

Yes, I too have Phonak digital hearing aids the VA gave me. They are
very effective, and have 4 or 5 "programs" which adapt on the fly. That
said, the "noise" they work in does not really resemble on-the-air power
line and similar noise. Mainly, they help me sort out someone talking
to me from other voices in the background. They do suppress wind noise
when driving, and will notch a fire truck or ambulance siren down to
tolerable levels. They truly did change my life and my thanks to the US
Taxpayers for that, I think they run about $6K a pair.

If only I could get a cable that plugs into that tiny programming jack
the audiology clinic uses and plug it into the radio :-)

I've not found my K3 NR to be all that useful. On CW, it does raise the
apparent S/N some, but the signal sounds "pinched" [best description I
can come up with] and if there is QSB, it seems to accentuate it. APF
is far more useful for me. I'm rarely on SSB, but when I am and use NR,
the speech seems to become distorted and far less intelligible. After
playing around with it for awhile, I think I think there are too many
menu choices for my feeble mind. OFF, LOW, HIGH might be better, or
perhaps ON and OFF?

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
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vk4tux

Re: Noise Reduction

In reply to this post by Jim Rogers, W4ATK

Using NR on 40m in noisy SSB conditions I have tried many combinations.
The best I have found so far is the 6-1 ~ 6-3 range, with AF & RF at max
at 6-3 to get the weaker signals through very high noise levels we
currently experience here on 40m.

I previously used the 8-x & 7-x range as it had less effect on audio
quality, but found it not as
effective on static crash noise as the 6-x range with reasonable signal
intelligibility.

If the noise can be transferred to a more transparent sound retaining
reasonable audio quality and level,then that would be great.

I would hope more testing could be done to improve NR on the K3 in the
future. I do usually decrease RF gain for the best result before using
NR at all, and try to avoid using NR until the noise becomes just too much.

Adrian ... vk4tux
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vk4tux

Re: Noise Reduction

In reply to this post by Jim Rogers, W4ATK

KD8NNU

Re: Noise Reduction

In reply to this post by Jim Rogers, W4ATK

I use BHI products in my mobile installation and would not be with out
it. I do wish the receive audio was better on the K3 and maybe I need
to use a BHI product in my new shack.

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:11 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:

> Hi Guy,
>
> I'd have to agree with you there. I think the algorithm used by the
> BHI
> device sounds much better than the BRIL offering.
>
> 73,
> James K2QI
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Well, I listened to the demo's and to MY ears, it seemed ineffective,
>> removing the voice entirely at some points. The "cleaned" output was
>> harsh and very treble, and seemed little more than a high pass
>> filter.
>> IMHO, this one is clearly inferior to the K3. If it was one of the
>> choices, it would be complained about a lot, though as completely
>> subjective as people are on this topic, some would probably like it.
>>
>> 73, Guy.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:59 PM, JAMES ROGERS <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Personally I am quite happy with the solutions offered with the K3.
>>> I
>>> had no problem finding the "sweet spot" for my noise environment.
>>> But
>>> for those that wish more, take a look at this site. For a licensing
>>> fee you can have BRIL .......
>>>
>>> "BRIL is a new proprietary algorithm has been recently developed for
>>> adaptively estimating and removing background noise from speech
>>> signals. Unlike noise reduction and speech enhancement algorithms
>>> currently available on the market, the new algorithm is capable of
>>> cleaning noisy speech even in severe noisy environments without any
>>> distortion to the speech signal. The algorithm has been successfully
>>> used in many communication systems with high level of noise. BRIL is
>>> suitable for many applications such as car kits, mobile telephony,
>>> conferencing, speech recognition, Internet phones, etc."
>>>
>>> They offer a demo where it seems you can play with setting various
>>> parameters.
>>>
>>> http://www.dspalgorithms.com/products/nr.html
>>>
>>>
>>> JIM ROGERS
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 73 de James K2QI
> President UNARC/4U1UN
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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KXBill

Re: Noise Reduction

I have been using the SGC ADSP2 Speaker with my home and portable operation. I find the NR action (13 or 26 db) more pleasing to my ear over what my K2/K3 offers.
That's my take on the subject. YMMV
3's
BillHarris/w7kxb

> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 21:58:19 -0500
> From: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise Reduction
>
> I use BHI products in my mobile installation and would not be with out
> it. I do wish the receive audio was better on the K3 and maybe I need
> to use a BHI product in my new shack.
>
>