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Now which mic can I use.

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Timothy Gordish-2

Now which mic can I use.

I have several microphones on hand and wondering if any will work with my soon to be order KX3.

My preference is a Heil Pro-Set Plus which has two crystal elements and a phase reverse switch. By far the most comfortable headset I have ever use. Can I use these with an appropriate adapter?

Then I have a Yaesu HT speaker mic with the correct 4 conductor connector used with a VX-5.

Then I have a headset with the same connector which I used with a HP netbook. Cheep but sufficient.

Will any of these work, or should I just order the Elecraft hand mike?

73 de Tim
AD7AN
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Timothy Gordish-2

Re: Now which mic can I use.

Hmmm….

For my operating needs I think I will just get the mike from Elecraft. I would interested in knowing if anyone else uses the Heil headset with any luck.

I am looking forward to using my Bencher Hexkey to send PSK. That sounds like a real hoot.

> On Oct 26, 2014, at 4:15 PM, Ray Sills <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> HI Tim:
>
> I'm sure you could get at least one of those mics to work, with appropriate connector. I didn't realize that Heil had a crystal element in one of their units... I thought they were dynamic. In any event, you likely can treat it as dynamic (no DC bias needed). The Yaesu mic may not have the proper pin-out, but it would work if re-wired. And the netbook headset might work, too, but you would have to use the XMIT button on the front panel or VOX... (or wire up a PTT gizmo).
>
> And, if all else fails, work a little CW, RTTY, or PSK31 with the KX3 while you wait for a Elecraft mic to arrive. :)
>
> FWIW, I ordered the mic with my KX3... and added other items (paddle, filter, ATU) afterward. BTW... dollar for dollar, the ATU is a great option to have... it's a superb tuner. If I had to pick just one option to have, the ATU would be it.
>
> 73 de Ray
> K2ULR
> KX3 #211
>

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Bill-3

Re: Now which mic can I use.

Take a look at the last paragraph of the following:
http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft%40mailman.qth.net/msg155203.html

I am still happy with the mod I made and use the mic daily - always
getting great reports.

Bill W2BLC K-Line :)
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Now which mic can I use.

In reply to this post by Timothy Gordish-2

I think that's a wise choice, Tim. If you look
back into older reflector messages some have used
the mic-earphone combos successfully (e.g., the
Yamaha CM500) successfully. But getting the PTT
set up takes some fiddling and with the Elecraft
KX3 mic you're ready to go out of the box.

Phil W7OX

On 10/26/14 4:38 PM, Timothy Gordish wrote:

> Hmmm….
>
> For my operating needs I think I will just get the mike from Elecraft. I would interested in knowing if anyone else uses the Heil headset with any luck.
>
> I am looking forward to using my Bencher Hexkey to send PSK. That sounds like a real hoot.
>
>> On Oct 26, 2014, at 4:15 PM, Ray Sills <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> HI Tim:
>>
>> I'm sure you could get at least one of those mics to work, with appropriate connector. I didn't realize that Heil had a crystal element in one of their units... I thought they were dynamic. In any event, you likely can treat it as dynamic (no DC bias needed). The Yaesu mic may not have the proper pin-out, but it would work if re-wired. And the netbook headset might work, too, but you would have to use the XMIT button on the front panel or VOX... (or wire up a PTT gizmo).
>>
>> And, if all else fails, work a little CW, RTTY, or PSK31 with the KX3 while you wait for a Elecraft mic to arrive. :)
>>
>> FWIW, I ordered the mic with my KX3... and added other items (paddle, filter, ATU) afterward. BTW... dollar for dollar, the ATU is a great option to have... it's a superb tuner. If I had to pick just one option to have, the ATU would be it.
>>
>> 73 de Ray
>> K2ULR
>> KX3 #211

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Now which mic can I use.

In reply to this post by Timothy Gordish-2

Tim,

You can use many headsets and microphones with the KX3 - *IF* you are
willing to build an adapter.
I have my homebrew adapter for the CM500 headset that works just fine,
but if you are not able/willing to build your own adapter, order the
Elecraft MH3 microphone - it works just fine.

Computer type microphones and headsets can be made to work, but because
the tip and ring are connected together, there is some special
considerations to be had when choosing the bias - they work OK with bias
turned off, but then will be using the source for digital voltage in the
K3 to bias the microphone which can cause noise in the signal. While it
will work, a proper adapter will provide better quality results. That
is why I built the adapter for my CM500.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/26/2014 5:14 PM, Timothy Gordish wrote:

> I have several microphones on hand and wondering if any will work with my soon to be order KX3.
>
> My preference is a Heil Pro-Set Plus which has two crystal elements and a phase reverse switch. By far the most comfortable headset I have ever use. Can I use these with an appropriate adapter?
>
> Then I have a Yaesu HT speaker mic with the correct 4 conductor connector used with a VX-5.
>
> Then I have a headset with the same connector which I used with a HP netbook. Cheep but sufficient.
>
> Will any of these work, or should I just order the Elecraft hand mike?
>
>

Michael Walker

Re: Now which mic can I use.

Let me add my 2 cents.

I heard so much crap audio this weekend, that all I can recommend is that
you use a Mic element purpose designed for the job of SSB QRP
communications. I have recordings of good and bad examples that I will
assemble into something useful at some point.

I heard guys with big wide signals that I could not understand who were
running lots of power. I also worked many QRP guys with amazing audio that
was correctly shaped for SSB. Don't kid yourself, that $2 computer mic,
while it sounds ok locally doesn't cut it when you need your signal to be
understood. This is not about FM full range audio. This is about being
heard and understood.

Bob Heil spent lots of time designing the right mic element for SSB
communications. He did this with input from Bell Labs. Leo Laporte did a
great interview with Bob where he describes why he did it.

Since you asked, my choice every time is the HC5 with the right cables.
Keep a close eye on your ALC settings too. Your KX3 will work just fine
and you will be heard.

73, Mike va3mw

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> You can use many headsets and microphones with the KX3 - *IF* you are
> willing to build an adapter.
> I have my homebrew adapter for the CM500 headset that works just fine, but
> if you are not able/willing to build your own adapter, order the Elecraft
> MH3 microphone - it works just fine.
>
> Computer type microphones and headsets can be made to work, but because
> the tip and ring are connected together, there is some special
> considerations to be had when choosing the bias - they work OK with bias
> turned off, but then will be using the source for digital voltage in the K3
> to bias the microphone which can cause noise in the signal. While it will
> work, a proper adapter will provide better quality results. That is why I
> built the adapter for my CM500.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 10/26/2014 5:14 PM, Timothy Gordish wrote:
>
>> I have several microphones on hand and wondering if any will work with my
>> soon to be order KX3.
>>
>> My preference is a Heil Pro-Set Plus which has two crystal elements and a
>> phase reverse switch. By far the most comfortable headset I have ever
>> use. Can I use these with an appropriate adapter?
>>
>> Then I have a Yaesu HT speaker mic with the correct 4 conductor connector
>> used with a VX-5.
>>
>> Then I have a headset with the same connector which I used with a HP
>> netbook. Cheep but sufficient.
>>
>> Will any of these work, or should I just order the Elecraft hand mike?
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

Michael Walker

Re: Now which mic can I use.

Bill

Is this the one you are talking about?

file:///C:/Users/Mike/Downloads/FG-26163-000.pdf

Mike va3mw

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Bill NY9H <[hidden email]> wrote:

> and what do you think Bob Heil pays for the element in his imported
> stuff????
> less than $ 2 ,,,
>
> Nothing the matter with buying Bob's stuff.
> I think you see that his elements are very similar to knowles capsules,
> which are actually manufactured in Il.
>
> do not forget that all elecraft sets can eq OUT the bottom end , and boost
> the
> upper mids like Bob does with his stuff. Shure Bros products long preceded
> the hi end boost.... see the 1978 literature,,,444
>
> Many years Shure rep , before that was Sennheiser & AKG representative.
>
> bill
>
>
>
> At 04:05 PM 10/27/2014, you wrote:
>
>> Let me add my 2 cents.
>>
>> I heard so much crap audio this weekend, that all I can recommend is that
>> you use a Mic element purpose designed for the job of SSB QRP
>> communications. I have recordings of good and bad examples that I will
>> assemble into something useful at some point.
>>
>> I heard guys with big wide signals that I could not understand who were
>> running lots of power. I also worked many QRP guys with amazing audio
>> that
>> was correctly shaped for SSB. Don't kid yourself, that $2 computer mic,
>> while it sounds ok locally doesn't cut it when you need your signal to be
>> understood. This is not about FM full range audio. This is about being
>> heard and understood.
>>
>> Bob Heil spent lots of time designing the right mic element for SSB
>> communications. He did this with input from Bell Labs. Leo Laporte did
>> a
>> great interview with Bob where he describes why he did it.
>>
>> Since you asked, my choice every time is the HC5 with the right cables.
>> Keep a close eye on your ALC settings too. Your KX3 will work just fine
>> and you will be heard.
>>
>> 73, Mike va3mw
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Tim,
>> >
>> > You can use many headsets and microphones with the KX3 - *IF* you are
>> > willing to build an adapter.
>> > I have my homebrew adapter for the CM500 headset that works just fine,
>> but
>> > if you are not able/willing to build your own adapter, order the
>> Elecraft
>> > MH3 microphone - it works just fine.
>> >
>> > Computer type microphones and headsets can be made to work, but because
>> > the tip and ring are connected together, there is some special
>> > considerations to be had when choosing the bias - they work OK with bias
>> > turned off, but then will be using the source for digital voltage in
>> the K3
>> > to bias the microphone which can cause noise in the signal. While it
>> will
>> > work, a proper adapter will provide better quality results. That is
>> why I
>> > built the adapter for my CM500.
>> >
>> > 73,
>> > Don W3FPR
>> >
>> > On 10/26/2014 5:14 PM, Timothy Gordish wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have several microphones on hand and wondering if any will work with
>> my
>> >> soon to be order KX3.
>> >>
>> >> My preference is a Heil Pro-Set Plus which has two crystal elements
>> and a
>> >> phase reverse switch. By far the most comfortable headset I have ever
>> >> use. Can I use these with an appropriate adapter?
>> >>
>> >> Then I have a Yaesu HT speaker mic with the correct 4 conductor
>> connector
>> >> used with a VX-5.
>> >>
>> >> Then I have a headset with the same connector which I used with a HP
>> >> netbook. Cheep but sufficient.
>> >>
>> >> Will any of these work, or should I just order the Elecraft hand mike?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> >
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Now which mic can I use.

In reply to this post by Michael Walker

Yes, there are a lot of bad SSB signals on the air - excessive
compression and excessive mic gain leading to splatter and
unintelligible signals.

With the K3 and KX3 TX EQ, there is no need to be particular about the
microphone. The K3 and KX3 have the means to make most any microphone
sound good on the air.

For communications quality, set the first two bands of the TX EQ to
minimum to reduce the bass response. reduce the 3rd band by 6 to 8 dB.
If your microphone does not have the high end boost, set the upper two
bands to +1 to +3 dB and you will have good sounding communications audio.

Yes, I do have a microphone with the Heil HC5 element, and I have an
Elecraft MH2, and I have an Astatic D104 with an FET in the base to
change it to a low impedance. I typically use the D104 with no rise in
the high end (because it is present in the mic element), but I do cut
the low end as I have indicated. Those lows add nothing to the
communications effectiveness and only burn up power.

On the K3, you can use TX TEST and record the monitor to see how you
will sound on the air.

When I do use my CM-500, I boost the two high bands to +3 dB, but the
other mics already have the high end boost built in.

Unfortunately, the Heil elements are no longer available as separate
products and Heil has settled on the low output HC6 as his element of
choice for his microphones (too much bass for my tastes). Besides, Heil
products are grossly overpriced IMHO, and I do not favor ESSB.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/27/2014 4:05 PM, Michael Walker wrote:

> Let me add my 2 cents.
>
> I heard so much crap audio this weekend, that all I can recommend is that
> you use a Mic element purpose designed for the job of SSB QRP
> communications. I have recordings of good and bad examples that I will
> assemble into something useful at some point.
>
> I heard guys with big wide signals that I could not understand who were
> running lots of power. I also worked many QRP guys with amazing audio that
> was correctly shaped for SSB. Don't kid yourself, that $2 computer mic,
> while it sounds ok locally doesn't cut it when you need your signal to be
> understood. This is not about FM full range audio. This is about being
> heard and understood.
>
> Bob Heil spent lots of time designing the right mic element for SSB
> communications. He did this with input from Bell Labs. Leo Laporte did a
> great interview with Bob where he describes why he did it.
>
> Since you asked, my choice every time is the HC5 with the right cables.
> Keep a close eye on your ALC settings too. Your KX3 will work just fine
> and you will be heard.
>
> 73, Mike va3mw
>
>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Now which mic can I use.

In reply to this post by Michael Walker

On 10/27/2014 1:05 PM, Michael Walker wrote:
> I heard so much crap audio this weekend,

Didn't we all.

> that all I can recommend is that you use a Mic element purpose designed for the job of SSB QRP communications.

WRONG. The crap audio was almost universally due to cranking everything
WAY past 11. K3 and KX3 will work fine with almost any decent mic that
isn't "broke." :) The only thing "purpose-designed" about mics sold for
ham radio is the sales pitch and hype that goes with them to get you to
spend three times what they are worth. :)

Also, the most important thing for any SSB station with a weak signal is
to use about 10 dB of compression on peaks, use TXEQ to turn the three
bottom octaves all the way down (-16 dB), turn the fourth octave down
3-6 dB).Some mics benefit from a 3 dB boost on the highest band (3.2
kHz). This advice is good for ALL competitive operation. And always be
careful not to over drive the radio. Use just enough to get full
modulation, and no more.

To set that 10 dB of compression, set the front panel display to show
COMP in a bar graph when you're transmitting.

If you're operating from a fixed location (not backpacking, not mobile),
it's hard to beat a Yamaha CM500. For mobile, you'll want something far
less visible, and for backpacking, you'll want something a LOT smaller
and lighter.

73, Jim K9YC
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Deni F5VJC

Re: Now which mic can I use.

These SSB contests are indeed a joke!

Many signals are just terrible and as Jim K9YC says they are due to dumb
Ops maladjusting radio/amplifier settings NOT bad or unsuitable non
competitive microphones.

The mentality appears to be Maximum power, legal or not and Maximum
bandwidth, splatter or not, the quality of the final signal, well... you
hear it and see it.

Why this message fails to get across I really don't know, but listening to
and watching the SSB contest melee is just, embarrassing.

However when you do hear a good Op with a well adjusted TX the signal is
outstanding, and I have to say most of the really good SSB signals do come
from the USA not Europe.

There should be something in contest rules to discourage or even outlaw the
sort of Loud and Dirty operation we hear on SSB, and not only in contests!

73, F5VJC

On 28 October 2014 04:59, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10/27/2014 1:05 PM, Michael Walker wrote:
>
>> I heard so much crap audio this weekend,
>>
>
> Didn't we all.
>
> that all I can recommend is that you use a Mic element purpose designed
>> for the job of SSB QRP communications.
>>
>
> WRONG. The crap audio was almost universally due to cranking everything
> WAY past 11. K3 and KX3 will work fine with almost any decent mic that
> isn't "broke." :) The only thing "purpose-designed" about mics sold for
> ham radio is the sales pitch and hype that goes with them to get you to
> spend three times what they are worth. :)
>
> Also, the most important thing for any SSB station with a weak signal is
> to use about 10 dB of compression on peaks, use TXEQ to turn the three
> bottom octaves all the way down (-16 dB), turn the fourth octave down 3-6
> dB).Some mics benefit from a 3 dB boost on the highest band (3.2 kHz). This
> advice is good for ALL competitive operation. And always be careful not to
> over drive the radio. Use just enough to get full modulation, and no more.
>
> To set that 10 dB of compression, set the front panel display to show COMP
> in a bar graph when you're transmitting.
>
> If you're operating from a fixed location (not backpacking, not mobile),
> it's hard to beat a Yamaha CM500. For mobile, you'll want something far
> less visible, and for backpacking, you'll want something a LOT smaller and
> lighter.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Edward R Cole

Re: Now which mic can I use.

In reply to this post by Timothy Gordish-2

On my K3 I use a 15 year old Heil HM05 which was used with my FT-847
before buying the K3. The Red Kenwood mic cable was purchased as it
has pin-compatible connector for the K3.

I bought the MH3 for my KX3.

I get great audio quality reports with both mics on both SSB and FM.
K3 settings MIC=20, CMP=20 (Heil desk mic)
KX3 settings MIC=25, CMP=11; for FM MIC=65 (MH3)

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Joseph Betros

Re: Now which mic can I use.

What is wrong with the Elecraft mic that comes from Elecraft?

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:23 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Now which mic can I use.

On my K3 I use a 15 year old Heil HM05 which was used with my FT-847 before
buying the K3. The Red Kenwood mic cable was purchased as it has
pin-compatible connector for the K3.

I bought the MH3 for my KX3.

I get great audio quality reports with both mics on both SSB and FM.
K3 settings MIC=20, CMP=20 (Heil desk mic)
KX3 settings MIC=25, CMP=11; for FM MIC=65 (MH3)

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Dominic Baines-3

Re: Now which mic can I use.

Nothing except perhaps might be expensive to buy if you already had a
mike you were using with another rig or had a spare, or you do not want
a hand mike.
It is a rare amateur that likes to spend money when they do not need to.

One of Elecraft's 'thing's', features etc has been the ability to use
other mike and keys with their rigs. With my KX3 I use a cheap light
logitech headset (<$10 from ebay et al), many DX guys use those Yamaha
gaming headsets I have seen some ops use those aviation/tank commander
looking headsets that must cost more than the rig... but it seems you
can use almost anything within reason.

72

Dom
M1KTA

On 28/10/14 09:52, Joseph Betros wrote:
> What is wrong with the Elecraft mic that comes from Elecraft?

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Now which mic can I use.

On 10/28/14 3:05 AM, Dominic Baines wrote:
>
> It is a rare amateur that likes to spend money
> when they do not need to.
Yes, I did that earlier this year and it's bugged
me ever since ;-)

Phil W7OX
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Now which mic can I use.

In reply to this post by Joseph Betros

Some prefer headphone-mic combos; I think that's
what he's using with his K3. I use a Kenwood hand
mic with my K3.

With my KX3 I use the Elecraft MH3 so far -- and
an MH2 with my K2.

Both the KX3 and K3 are so configurable that they
can be used with most any mic. The challenge is in
the cabling, especially with the KX3.

Phil W7OX

On 10/28/14 2:52 AM, Joseph Betros wrote:

> What is wrong with the Elecraft mic that comes from Elecraft?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward
> R Cole
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:23 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Now which mic can I use.
>
> On my K3 I use a 15 year old Heil HM05 which was used with my FT-847 before
> buying the K3. The Red Kenwood mic cable was purchased as it has
> pin-compatible connector for the K3.
>
> I bought the MH3 for my KX3.
>
> I get great audio quality reports with both mics on both SSB and FM.
> K3 settings MIC=20, CMP=20 (Heil desk mic)
> KX3 settings MIC=25, CMP=11; for FM MIC=65 (MH3)
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> "Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
> [hidden email]

Edward R Cole

Re: Now which mic can I use.

In reply to this post by Timothy Gordish-2

Joseph,

As far as I know nothing wrong with the hand mic for the K3. I
didn't need it as my K3 was destined for home use and not going
mobile or portable. I had my Heil mic from when I got it for my
FT-847 in 1998. All I needed was the proper mic cord to interface
the K3 and that was the one labeled for Kenwood by Heil.

This is an old model and the label and has worn off. It may have
been HM-10. It is a mic that can be held in the hand or set in a
separate desk cradle-stand. I think this model is discontinued.

I use a separate headset made by Sony which has nice soft cushions
that surround the ear (and enclose my hearing aids), so I have not
gone to using a headset-mic combo. Most of my contesting is CW or
digital so this is sufficient.

For my KX3 I chose the Elecraft MH3 since I DO intend to use it
mobile and portable. I get great on-air reports with both radios and
mics. Some may note the high mic gain setting for FM with the KX3
and that results from on-air reports of low audio level on 2m
FM. Firmware may have subsequently "fixed" this.

Side comment to the bad SSB usage with splatter, etc. It's what you
get if you provide a mic gain control. I call it the "CB
syndromn". Biggest error of CB mfr's was including a mic gain
control on those radios.

73, Ed - KL7UW
Note: I receive the digest version only twice per day - thus the
delay in my replies.

--------------------------------
From: "Joseph Betros" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Now which mic can I use.
Message-ID: <001201cff294$eccec850$c66c58f0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

What is wrong with the Elecraft mic that comes from Elecraft?

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:23 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Now which mic can I use.

On my K3 I use a 15 year old Heil HM05 which was used with my FT-847 before
buying the K3. The Red Kenwood mic cable was purchased as it has
pin-compatible connector for the K3.

I bought the MH3 for my KX3.

I get great audio quality reports with both mics on both SSB and FM.
K3 settings MIC=20, CMP=20 (Heil desk mic)
KX3 settings MIC=25, CMP=11; for FM MIC=65 (MH3)

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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