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OT 4M

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James Duffey

OT 4M

I would like to see 4M released for ham use, not necessarily for repeaters, but rather for weak signal use. There are many times when the MUF goes above 50 MHz, but doesn’t reach 2M. 70 MHz would be very useful for sporadic E. Meteor scatter would still be good there, not as good as 50 MHz, but much better than 144 MHz. EME, with WSJT, should be significantly easier than 50 MHz. With a limited number of 144MHz and up ops here, 70 MHz would really help the VHF/UHF contest scores in this area. The whole state of NM has a 50W limitation on 432MHz, so we are limited as to contacts on that band.

Amateur use of 70 MHz should be able to coexist on a sharing basis with current users, with perhaps some limitations near critical users, if there are any. It is an issue that is pretty far down the priority list for the FCC or the ARRL though, so it will be a while. - DUffey KK6MC
--
KK6MC
James Duffey
Cedar Crest NM

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: OT 4M

In order to be of use a US allocation should match that of the rest
of the world - approximately 70.0 - 70.5 MHz. Unfortunately, that
is right in the middle of US TV Channel 4 and there are quite a few
authorizations on Channel 4. See: http://www.w9wi.com/channels/4.html

Protecting the grade B contour of each authorized channel 4 station
would make any 4 M allocation off limits in much of the US.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-05-20 9:16 PM, James Duffey wrote:

> I would like to see 4M released for ham use, not necessarily for repeaters, but rather for weak signal use. There are many times when the MUF goes above 50 MHz, but doesn’t reach 2M. 70 MHz would be very useful for sporadic E. Meteor scatter would still be good there, not as good as 50 MHz, but much better than 144 MHz. EME, with WSJT, should be significantly easier than 50 MHz. With a limited number of 144MHz and up ops here, 70 MHz would really help the VHF/UHF contest scores in this area. The whole state of NM has a 50W limitation on 432MHz, so we are limited as to contacts on that band.
>
> Amateur use of 70 MHz should be able to coexist on a sharing basis with current users, with perhaps some limitations near critical users, if there are any. It is an issue that is pretty far down the priority list for the FCC or the ARRL though, so it will be a while. - DUffey KK6MC
> --
> KK6MC
> James Duffey
> Cedar Crest NM
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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MontyS

Re: OT 4M

Joe,

I thought all the analog TV channels were de-allocated when we went all
digital.

Monty K2DLJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 10:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT 4M

In order to be of use a US allocation should match that of the rest
of the world - approximately 70.0 - 70.5 MHz. Unfortunately, that
is right in the middle of US TV Channel 4 and there are quite a few
authorizations on Channel 4. See: http://www.w9wi.com/channels/4.html

Protecting the grade B contour of each authorized channel 4 station
would make any 4 M allocation off limits in much of the US.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-05-20 9:16 PM, James Duffey wrote:

> I would like to see 4M released for ham use, not necessarily for
> repeaters, but rather for weak signal use. There are many times when the
> MUF goes above 50 MHz, but doesn’t reach 2M. 70 MHz would be very useful
> for sporadic E. Meteor scatter would still be good there, not as good as
> 50 MHz, but much better than 144 MHz. EME, with WSJT, should be
> significantly easier than 50 MHz. With a limited number of 144MHz and up
> ops here, 70 MHz would really help the VHF/UHF contest scores in this
> area. The whole state of NM has a 50W limitation on 432MHz, so we are
> limited as to contacts on that band.
>
> Amateur use of 70 MHz should be able to coexist on a sharing basis with
> current users, with perhaps some limitations near critical users, if there
> are any. It is an issue that is pretty far down the priority list for the
> FCC or the ARRL though, so it will be a while. - DUffey KK6MC
> --
> KK6MC
> James Duffey
> Cedar Crest NM
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: OT 4M

Yeah, that was SUPOSSED to happen, but in true guvmint fashion, it didn't
quite work out that way.
(Where have we seen THAT before?)

There's still a LOT of analog low-band TV, so the chances of a 4M ham band
over here in the colonies, is just about dead.

The 72/75 MHz RC band is limited to very low power, (100 mW ???) so I doubt
if similar limitations would be of much use for communications

73, Charlie k3ICH

----- Original Message -----
From: "MontyS" <[hidden email]>
To: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT 4M

Joe,

I thought all the analog TV channels were de-allocated when we went all
digital.

Monty K2DLJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 10:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT 4M

In order to be of use a US allocation should match that of the rest
of the world - approximately 70.0 - 70.5 MHz. Unfortunately, that
is right in the middle of US TV Channel 4 and there are quite a few
authorizations on Channel 4. See: http://www.w9wi.com/channels/4.html

Protecting the grade B contour of each authorized channel 4 station
would make any 4 M allocation off limits in much of the US.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-05-20 9:16 PM, James Duffey wrote:

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: OT 4M

In reply to this post by MontyS

No, Low power (Class A) were permitted to continue operating in analog
as were translators. I have no doubt that many of those old analog
allocations will convert to digital (probably at higher power) as
technology and the regulatory climate permit.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-05-21 6:29 AM, MontyS wrote:

> Joe,
>
> I thought all the analog TV channels were de-allocated when we went all
> digital.
>
> Monty K2DLJ
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Joe Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 10:27 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT 4M
>
>
> In order to be of use a US allocation should match that of the rest
> of the world - approximately 70.0 - 70.5 MHz. Unfortunately, that
> is right in the middle of US TV Channel 4 and there are quite a few
> authorizations on Channel 4. See: http://www.w9wi.com/channels/4.html
>
> Protecting the grade B contour of each authorized channel 4 station
> would make any 4 M allocation off limits in much of the US.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2014-05-20 9:16 PM, James Duffey wrote:
>> I would like to see 4M released for ham use, not necessarily for
>> repeaters, but rather for weak signal use. There are many times when
>> the MUF goes above 50 MHz, but doesn’t reach 2M. 70 MHz would be very
>> useful for sporadic E. Meteor scatter would still be good there, not
>> as good as 50 MHz, but much better than 144 MHz. EME, with WSJT,
>> should be significantly easier than 50 MHz. With a limited number of
>> 144MHz and up ops here, 70 MHz would really help the VHF/UHF contest
>> scores in this area. The whole state of NM has a 50W limitation on
>> 432MHz, so we are limited as to contacts on that band.
>>
>> Amateur use of 70 MHz should be able to coexist on a sharing basis
>> with current users, with perhaps some limitations near critical users,
>> if there are any. It is an issue that is pretty far down the priority
>> list for the FCC or the ARRL though, so it will be a while. - DUffey
>> KK6MC
>> --
>> KK6MC
>> James Duffey
>> Cedar Crest NM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: OT 4M

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

On 5/21/2014 4:58 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
> Yeah, that was SUPOSSED to happen, but in true guvmint fashion, it
> didn't quite work out that way.
> (Where have we seen THAT before?)
>
> There's still a LOT of analog low-band TV, so the chances of a 4M ham
> band over here in the colonies, is just about dead.

You misunderstand the current situation, as well as the plan for the
analog to digital transition. This was NOT a "guvmint" screwup. First,
most non-commercial stations were allowed to "opt out" and stay with
analog if they wanted to do so. Those are the analog stations that are
still there.

Second, the channels that were PLANNED to be abandoned by TV and
auctioned off are the high UHF channels, not VHF.

Third, during the transition period, many digital stations were assigned
to low band VHF channels (2-6), and they experienced lots of
interference from impulse noise sources. AT THEIR REQUEST, stations
assigned these channels AFTER the transition were permitted to request a
higher channel (7 and above), and most low band VHF stations did so.
There are a handful of digital stations around the country on each of
those low-band channels, and they CHOSE to stick with their allocation
there.

Fourth, digital TV operates in the same spectrum, and even in the same
6MHz wide channel layout as analog TV, but which station is now and was
during the transition was carefully set up so that during the transition
period, their viewers had a choice of either the analog or digital
transmitter, which were on different channels.

Fifth, with so few stations using low-band VHF (2-6)now, there is plenty
of that spectrum available, and it would be easy to move those stations
that want to stay on low-band VHF off of one or more of those channels
so that other services could use it. I'm sure that there are others
services beside ham radio that would like some of this spectrum, and
once item #3 above had been realized, those services have been jockeying
for position.

Sixth, many DTV stations are using an RF channel different from their
original analog allocation, but the channel that appears on the screen
is their original analog channel. For example, WGN-TV in Chicago has a
half-century long identity as "Channel 9" that they still maintain, even
though they are transmitting on channel 19.

It's easy to search the FCC database of licensed broadcast stations
using the link below. A quick search shows five full power DTV stations
on Channel 2, six on Channel 3, three on Channel 4. There are
considerably more on channels 5 and 6.(76-88 MHz). In addition to these
are some low power translators, and some low power analog and digital
stations.

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/tv-query-broadcast-station-search

73, Jim K9YC

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: OT 4M

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

On 5/21/2014 4:58 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
> Yeah, that was SUPOSSED to happen, but in true guvmint fashion, it
> didn't quite work out that way.
> (Where have we seen THAT before?)
... and there are channels that moved their digital signals back to
their original VHF channel instead of staying on the UHF channel
allocated for digital.

It didn't help those viewers who had replaced their VHF antennas with
new UHF antennas to keep their local broadcasts.
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