OT: Another quick question about solder...

[K2QI]

Per Elecraft's soldering notes/suggestions:

 

Kits submitted for repair which HAVE been assembled using No-Clean or
Water-Soluble fluxes

MAY be refused service..!

 

Yet in the same PDF, they have a list of recommended solder.  Kester 245 is
one of them and happens to be a no-clean MA solder.  It is not rosin cored.
Should I just buy a spool of the Kester 285 and be done with it?

 

Vy 73,

James K2QI

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

James,

I would suggest that using the non-cored solder might be 'tricky' (but
then I don't know your experience or skill level).  You may want to get
a rosin flux pen and experiment with it, but if it were me, I would get
the spool of Kester 285 for general use and be done with it.

I am not sure why hams spend a lot of money on a transceiver and then
balk at getting the right tools to service it.  To me it is about the
same as buying a Porshe and trying to use an old set of pliers to change
the spark plugs.

73,
Don W3FPR

James Sarte wrote:

> Per Elecraft's soldering notes/suggestions:
>
>  
>
> Kits submitted for repair which HAVE been assembled using No-Clean or
> Water-Soluble fluxes
>
> MAY be refused service..!
>
>  
>
> Yet in the same PDF, they have a list of recommended solder.  Kester 245 is
> one of them and happens to be a no-clean MA solder.  It is not rosin cored.
> Should I just buy a spool of the Kester 285 and be done with it?
>
>  
>
> Vy 73,
>
> James K2QI
>  
>

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[K2QI]

Thanks Don, and everyone else that replied!

I'm not that good with a soldering iron.  I am learning though.  My father
on the other hand (who happens to be a retired electrical engineer) was a
genius with a soldering iron... I probably should have paid more attention
to what he was teaching me when I was young, rather than go out and play
with friends.

Anyway, I'm about to nervously perform the VFO noise mod and jumper mod to
my K3.  I'm not looking forward to it.  I have soldered other things
together like the repair work on my SB-220, but I've never been happy with
the quality of my solder.  They're not cold or weak joints, but they are
ugly.  Probably because I was using this roll of solid wire thinking it had
flux in it.  That's probably why it also took me longer than normal to get a
good solder connection.

I will order the Kester 285.  Thanks again to all for your suggestions.
I've also been doing some reading between the differences between type R,
RA, and RMA solders; never knew there were so many different options.

Wish me luck!  I hope I don't kill my K3 in the process.

Vy 73,
James K2QI

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:24 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> James,
>
> I would suggest that using the non-cored solder might be 'tricky' (but then
> I don't know your experience or skill level).  You may want to get a rosin
> flux pen and experiment with it, but if it were me, I would get the spool of
> Kester 285 for general use and be done with it.
>
> I am not sure why hams spend a lot of money on a transceiver and then balk
> at getting the right tools to service it.  To me it is about the same as
> buying a Porshe and trying to use an old set of pliers to change the spark
> plugs.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> James Sarte wrote:
>
>> Per Elecraft's soldering notes/suggestions:
>>
>>
>> Kits submitted for repair which HAVE been assembled using No-Clean or
>> Water-Soluble fluxes
>>
>> MAY be refused service..!
>>
>>
>> Yet in the same PDF, they have a list of recommended solder.  Kester 245
>> is
>> one of them and happens to be a no-clean MA solder.  It is not rosin
>> cored.
>> Should I just buy a spool of the Kester 285 and be done with it?
>>
>>
>> Vy 73,
>>
>> James K2QI
>>
>>
>

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[P.B. Christensen]

> Anyway, I'm about to nervously perform the VFO noise mod and jumper mod to
> my K3.  I'm not looking forward to it.  I have soldered other things
> together like the repair work on my SB-220, but I've never been happy with
> the quality of my solder.

Practicing on a scrap PC board with "vias" may instill some confidence in
the job.  Ensure that the work area is well-lighted, and you're using a
solder station of reasonably good quality.  Depending on your degree of risk
aversion, you may also want to consider the use of an anti-static mat.  If
the budget allows, purchase one with an adjustable, temperature-controlled
tip.  Either a conical or very narrow chiseled tip will work well.  Be
mindful of the tip temperature and clean the tip often on the wetted sponge.
For wicking and extraction purposes, I generally set the tip temperature
between 750-800 degrees F -- and 700 degrees F for general soldering.  For
use with 2% silver bearing solder, I inch the tip temperature up just a bit.

When you're ready to proceed, you may find that one or more vias as
described in the Application Notes may be filled with solder.   I first
attempted to wick the solder by adding slightly more solder onto the via --  
and also tried using a Soldapult.  However, the diameter of the via is quite
small -- nearly the exact diameter of the component lead.  Rather than risk
PCB damage, I pre-cut the component lengths, added a slight amount of solder
to the via, then gently inserted the component's lead into the via while
keeping it hot with the soldering tip.  That worked very well, although I'm
sure others will have suggestions for clearing out a via without the need
for an expensive re-work station.

Moving on to the "K3 Extreme Signal Rx Protection Mod," I used #26 Kynar
(i.e., wire wrap) wire between the via and  component pad.  A hot glue gun
was then used to dab glue at the wire bend locations as shown in the
Application Note photos.  This makes for an easy, fast and
professional-looking way of securing the wire onto the PCB.

Paul, W9AC
 

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[K2QI]

Hi Paul,

I have an Aoyue 937+ digital solder station.  I bought it from SRA for
around $50.  It's a great value compared to the Weller units.  It's also ESD
protected.  I'll use the same anti-static mat I used to assemble my K3 when
it's time to perform the mods.

Anyway, I just ordered Kester 285 RMA 1# spools in .020 and .031 sizes from
Mouser.  Should be here in a few days.

Thanks to all.

73 de James K2QI

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Paul Christensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Anyway, I'm about to nervously perform the VFO noise mod and jumper mod
> to
> > my K3.  I'm not looking forward to it.  I have soldered other things
> > together like the repair work on my SB-220, but I've never been happy
> with
> > the quality of my solder.
>
> Practicing on a scrap PC board with "vias" may instill some confidence in
> the job.  Ensure that the work area is well-lighted, and you're using a
> solder station of reasonably good quality.  Depending on your degree of
> risk
> aversion, you may also want to consider the use of an anti-static mat.  If
> the budget allows, purchase one with an adjustable, temperature-controlled
> tip.  Either a conical or very narrow chiseled tip will work well.  Be
> mindful of the tip temperature and clean the tip often on the wetted
> sponge.
> For wicking and extraction purposes, I generally set the tip temperature
> between 750-800 degrees F -- and 700 degrees F for general soldering.  For
> use with 2% silver bearing solder, I inch the tip temperature up just a
> bit.
>
> When you're ready to proceed, you may find that one or more vias as
> described in the Application Notes may be filled with solder.   I first
> attempted to wick the solder by adding slightly more solder onto the via --
> and also tried using a Soldapult.  However, the diameter of the via is
> quite
> small -- nearly the exact diameter of the component lead.  Rather than risk
> PCB damage, I pre-cut the component lengths, added a slight amount of
> solder
> to the via, then gently inserted the component's lead into the via while
> keeping it hot with the soldering tip.  That worked very well, although I'm
> sure others will have suggestions for clearing out a via without the need
> for an expensive re-work station.
>
> Moving on to the "K3 Extreme Signal Rx Protection Mod," I used #26 Kynar
> (i.e., wire wrap) wire between the via and  component pad.  A hot glue gun
> was then used to dab glue at the wire bend locations as shown in the
> Application Note photos.  This makes for an easy, fast and
> professional-looking way of securing the wire onto the PCB.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
73 de James K2QI
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[AC7AC]

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[K2QI]

Hi Ron,

I do have one of those little manual solder suckers, but I can never seem to
get the technique down right when it comes to using it.  Always seems the
solder hardens before I get chance to suck it out, hihi.

I probably should have ordered some braid to go with my solder, but alas I
forgot.  I'll have to keep practicing with the sucker instead.

James K2QI

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A good "solder sucker" is also an excellent investment, as is some narrow
> desoldering braid and a little rosin flux, either in a pen or small bottle.


> Although elegant, the powered solder suckers are not necessary. A good
> spring-loaded unit will do the job 99% of the time. They sell for US $10 to
> $15. Where the sucker isn't convenient, the braid works FB.

Ron AC7AC
>
>
>


--
73 de James K2QI
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[Bob-270]

In a pinch...   You can put some flux on the braid from a small coax
such as RG174 and use it to
wick up the solder.

73,
Bob
K2TK

James Sarte wrote:

> Hi Ron,
>
> I do have one of those little manual solder suckers, but I can never seem to
> get the technique down right when it comes to using it.  Always seems the
> solder hardens before I get chance to suck it out, hihi.
>
> I probably should have ordered some braid to go with my solder, but alas I
> forgot.  I'll have to keep practicing with the sucker instead.
>
> James K2QI
>  
>
>  

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[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

Rosin core tin/lead solder is perfectly OK to use on any of our boards,
RoHs or not, for mods.

Our primary concern is with the water-soluble flux solder, which leaves
a conductive residue on hand soldered boards.

Other no-clean solders are OK as long as they do not use water soluble
fluxes. It should be noted though that some of the no-clean solders need
more care in their use and can be harder to get good flow for hand made
solder joints.

73, Eric   WA6HHQ
Elecraft.
----

James Sarte wrote:

> Per Elecraft's soldering notes/suggestions:
>
>
> Kits submitted for repair which HAVE been assembled using No-Clean or
> Water-Soluble fluxes
>
> MAY be refused service..!
>
>  
>
> Yet in the same PDF, they have a list of recommended solder.  Kester 245 is
> one of them and happens to be a no-clean MA solder.  It is not rosin cored.
> Should I just buy a spool of the Kester 285 and be done with it?
>
> Vy 73,
> James K2QI
>  

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[AC7AC]

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[AC7AC]

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[Mel]

A couple of additional comments. 

Sometimes, if the soldering isn't perfect, traces of the water soluible flux will remain trapped in the via.  This leads to premature failure of the via, primarily in multi-layer boards.  In the automated system of assembly this is very rare, but does happen as dissecting a failed PCB has revealed.  In otherwords, don't use it at home, you can't control the variables.

Lastly, avoid trying to do any additional cleaning of the vias other than a solder wick or suction device,  The actual via metal thickness is VERY thin.  Any rough treatment will lead to cracks in the via and potential failure down stream. 

>From one who is long in the tooth.

Mel, K6KBE

--- On Tue, 8/18/09, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Another quick question about solder...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 1:19 PM

Eric, WA6HHQ wrote:

Our primary concern is with the water-soluble flux solder, which leaves
a conductive residue on hand soldered boards.

-------------------------------------------

Also some water-soluble fluxes remain corrosive at *room temperature* until
they are removed from the board, and it's *hard* to get them completely off
without special facilities. The result is a board that will slowly
disintegrate as the traces are eaten through, becoming intermittent and
eventually failing altogether weeks or months after the flux was used.

These fluxes are designed for automated soldering facilities were the boards
undergo a powerful machine washing right after soldering that removes all
the flux. But brushing at home or even washing in the sink won't do it. (I
know one fellow who said he successfully removed the flux by running the
boards through his dishwasher, but I'd not try it. Rosin flux simply works
too well to go through all that even if it does work and even if the board
survives the dishwasher.)

Ron AC7AC


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