OT Ethernet/RS-232
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Not wanting to resurrect the why still RS-232 arguments I still thought this looked interesting. Didn't investigate enough to see if it would work with a K3. Thought there might be someone who would find it useful for something.
<http://www.saelig.com/SPCL/ETH012.htm> There is also a multiple RS-232 version. However there may be issues with drivers/software to direct data from programs to this device rather than physical ports on the machine. David K0LUM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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David,
I would submit that RS-232 is still the common denominator for point to point computer communications. No licenses, no registration, no unique IP addresses, just "communicate". That converter from Ethernet to RS-232 may prove to be useful, but most radio gear will continue to use RS-232 simply because it is so universal. Yes, USB has "universal" as part of its name, but I do not believe it is as universal as RS-232. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/27/2012 4:37 PM, David Christ wrote: > Not wanting to resurrect the why still RS-232 arguments I still thought this looked interesting. Didn't investigate enough to see if it would work with a K3. Thought there might be someone who would find it useful for something. > > <http://www.saelig.com/SPCL/ETH012.htm> > > There is also a multiple RS-232 version. However there may be issues with drivers/software to direct data from programs to this device rather than physical ports on the machine. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by David Christ
http://tinyurl.com/c4m44on
is another one, but from B and B Electronics. Also pricier. These devices do work, but they can be slower than USB-Serial, mainly because they're operated in Telnet mode as a server. They convert characters to packets at a human rate (telnet is a terminal protocol), not at streaming rates. But maybe the Saelig is different? Matt Zilmer W6NIA -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Christ Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:37 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] OT Ethernet/RS-232 Not wanting to resurrect the why still RS-232 arguments I still thought this looked interesting. Didn't investigate enough to see if it would work with a K3. Thought there might be someone who would find it useful for something. <http://www.saelig.com/SPCL/ETH012.htm> There is also a multiple RS-232 version. However there may be issues with drivers/software to direct data from programs to this device rather than physical ports on the machine. David K0LUM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I have been using the Lantronix device with no problems at all for my
LP-100A and RT-21 rotor controller. I have not used it for rig control but no reason it should not work. http://gridconnect.com/usb-to-serial/serial-to-ethernet/uds2100.html 73 Greg AB7R On 11/27/12, Matthew Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/c4m44on > is another one, but from B and B Electronics. Also pricier. > > These devices do work, but they can be slower than USB-Serial, mainly > because they're operated in Telnet mode as a server. They convert > characters to packets at a human rate (telnet is a terminal protocol), not > at streaming rates. But maybe the Saelig is different? > > Matt Zilmer > W6NIA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Christ > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:37 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Elecraft] OT Ethernet/RS-232 > > Not wanting to resurrect the why still RS-232 arguments I still thought this > looked interesting. Didn't investigate enough to see if it would work with > a K3. Thought there might be someone who would find it useful for > something. > > <http://www.saelig.com/SPCL/ETH012.htm> > > There is also a multiple RS-232 version. However there may be issues with > drivers/software to direct data from programs to this device rather than > physical ports on the machine. > > David K0LUM > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
I would say there are many many more computer to computer
connections over TCP than over RS-232. And many more over PPPoE <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_protocol_over_Ethernet>. As far as I can tell, hams are the only users of RS-232 left. (RS-232 has the wonderful advantage of making it easy to build interfaces.) I don't think there are any new laptop computers with RS223 ports. Are there any desktops/towers? I am a big fan of the IP protocol family for general communications between devices. With a broad collection of protocols which include flow-controlled point-to-point (TCP), Multicast <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_multicast>, Datagram (UDP); most communication problems can be solved with a well-tested protocol. Full disclosure: One of the happiest days of my life was about 8 years ago when I got rid of the last RS-232 connection in my house. Newer systems used USB and ethernet and older ones got turned off. Then I got active in ham radio... Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 11/27/12 at 2:03 PM, [hidden email] (Don Wilhelm) wrote: >I would submit that RS-232 is still the common denominator for >point to point computer communications. No licenses, no >registration, no unique IP addresses, just "communicate". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Truth and love must prevail | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | over lies and hate. | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, CA 95032 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Frantz > > ...I don't think there are any new laptop computers with RS223 ports. > Are there any desktops/towers? ... The most recent shipment of Dell Optiplex (business desktops) I bought have serial ports. Dell Latitude notebooks have an available snap-on legacy port adaptor that includes a real (non-USB) serial port, same as do the docking stations. My ruggedized Latitude E6420 XFR has a standard serial port, but it seems to be an internal USB-serial port adapter. A lot of network equipment still has serial console ports, so laptops marketed toward network techs tend to have available serial ports. In my experience USB to serial adapters are generally inferior to traditional serial ports. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bill Frantz
> As far as I can tell, hams are the only users of RS-232 left.
Wrong. There are still many industrial devices that use RS-232 and many many more that use RS-422/485. > (RS-232 has > the wonderful advantage of making it easy to build interfaces.) From an RF point of view, serial connections have another benefit ... they don't generate a lot of noise. > I don't > think there are any new laptop computers with RS223 ports. Are there any > desktops/towers? We manage to find them, but they are rare. Dell has some business notebooks with them, and the Panasonic Toughbooks we have, have serial ports. You can also find pc-cards that have serial outputs. However, notebooks and desktops/towers are not used very often. Most of this equipment talks to other pieces of stuff over serial connections without a 'conventional computer' in the mix. Notebooks are used mainly for service and troubleshooting. Mark AD5SS On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote: > I would say there are many many more computer to computer connections over > TCP than over RS-232. And many more over PPPoE > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_protocol_over_Ethernet>. > > As far as I can tell, hams are the only users of RS-232 left. (RS-232 has > the wonderful advantage of making it easy to build interfaces.) I don't > think there are any new laptop computers with RS223 ports. Are there any > desktops/towers? > > I am a big fan of the IP protocol family for general communications between > devices. With a broad collection of protocols which include flow-controlled > point-to-point (TCP), Multicast <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_multicast>, > Datagram (UDP); most communication problems can be solved with a well-tested > protocol. > > Full disclosure: One of the happiest days of my life was about 8 years ago > when I got rid of the last RS-232 connection in my house. Newer systems used > USB and ethernet and older ones got turned off. Then I got active in ham > radio... > > Cheers - Bill, AE6JV > > > On 11/27/12 at 2:03 PM, [hidden email] (Don Wilhelm) wrote: > >> I would submit that RS-232 is still the common denominator for point to >> point computer communications. No licenses, no registration, no unique IP >> addresses, just "communicate". > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Frantz | Truth and love must prevail | Periwinkle > (408)356-8506 | over lies and hate. | 16345 Englewood Ave > www.pwpconsult.com | - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, CA 95032 > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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This has gone in a direction I was afraid it might and tried to forestall.
My only intent was to mention an affordable device that would allow you to have an RS-232 connector at a remote location. Thought it might give some ideas and options to those who wanted to easily control devices at a distance. Turning things on and off and such. Nothing more. My apologies to all. David K0LUM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Chuck N4XS
Thanks to the many people, both on and off the list, who pointed
out current uses of RS-232 in industrial systems and datacenters and the limited availability of RS-232 interfaces on new computers including laptops. Indeed, there is nothing that is completely obsolete in electronics and computers. I will point out that a full K line system is 4 boxes from Elecraft each containing perhaps several CPUs/DSPs/etc. Add in a Window/Mac/Linux computer with all of them communicating with each other it is no longer just a simple point-to-point communication problem. (And I am very glad I can load firmware in my K3 without disconnecting the P3.) Cheers - Bill, AE6JV ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | When it comes to the world | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bill Frantz
Yes. I just had to replace the old tower with a new one. I told the
"computer boys" who we deal with to put a "real" RS-232 port in it. I should have told them "Two please." On 11/27/2012 2:59 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: > I > don't think there are any new laptop computers with RS223 ports. Are > there any desktops/towers? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bill Frantz
This is not exactly true.
RS232 is still widely used over long haul RF links, telemetry and scads systems. Why? It's reliable, it just works, you don't have to stuff around with drivers or custom software and its a self recovering system. USB is a vendor driven platform. There are very few "universal" USB serial links (despite what you might think, most "USB" rigs today just use an rs232 or FTDI chip) it requires custom drivers from each chip manufacturer ( and often each vendor of said chip ) for eac Operating system, architecture (x86, x86_64, arm, sun/oracle, etc) whereas with RS232 this is all already done. In the domestic world RS232 might be fading away, but its still very much prevalent in commercial, industrial and telemetry environments. ---- VK3XJM 0416 039 082 http://www.zindello.com.au/ [hidden email] On 28/11/2012, at 9:59, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote: > I would say there are many many more computer to computer connections over TCP than over RS-232. And many more over PPPoE <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-point_protocol_over_Ethernet>. > > As far as I can tell, hams are the only users of RS-232 left. (RS-232 has the wonderful advantage of making it easy to build interfaces.) I don't think there are any new laptop computers with RS223 ports. Are there any desktops/towers? > > I am a big fan of the IP protocol family for general communications between devices. With a broad collection of protocols which include flow-controlled point-to-point (TCP), Multicast <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_multicast>, Datagram (UDP); most communication problems can be solved with a well-tested protocol. > > Full disclosure: One of the happiest days of my life was about 8 years ago when I got rid of the last RS-232 connection in my house. Newer systems used USB and ethernet and older ones got turned off. Then I got active in ham radio... > > Cheers - Bill, AE6JV > > On 11/27/12 at 2:03 PM, [hidden email] (Don Wilhelm) wrote: > >> I would submit that RS-232 is still the common denominator for point to point computer communications. No licenses, no registration, no unique IP addresses, just "communicate". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Frantz | Truth and love must prevail | Periwinkle > (408)356-8506 | over lies and hate. | 16345 Englewood Ave > www.pwpconsult.com | - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, CA 95032 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by k6dgw
On 11/27/2012 4:33 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> Yes. I just had to replace the old tower with a new one. I told the > "computer boys" who we deal with to put a "real" RS-232 port in it. I > should have told them "Two please." I have 7 in a 2 y/o Dell Precision (high end) tower - "COM1" on the m/b , plus three Dual-Port Serial Cards. Fits my needs. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Folks - Let's end this thread now to reduce list noise level. Its
drifting way OT. Must be a poor DX day.. ;-) 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator --- www.elecraft.com On 11/27/2012 6:18 PM, Phil Kane wrote: > On 11/27/2012 4:33 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: > >> Yes. I just had to replace the old tower with a new one. I told the >> "computer boys" who we deal with to put a "real" RS-232 port in it. I >> should have told them "Two please." > I have 7 in a 2 y/o Dell Precision (high end) tower - "COM1" on the m/b > , plus three Dual-Port Serial Cards. Fits my needs. > > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane > Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 > > From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest > Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Hi,
Forgive me, Eric, for adding one more post to this thread, but this is not to reignite the "why are we still using RS232" question. Rather, nobody has mentioned one good reason to use an Ethernet to serial adapter. It extends the range to several hundred feet, something neither RS232 nor USB can do. I have a B&B serial Ethernet server under test in my shack over a 100' Ethernet cable. It is ready to be moved outside to a weather proof box where I am going to install my 2nd KAT500 when it arrives. I have received the "shipping in 5 to 7 days" notice from Madelyn so I am excited. I can't comment on the merits of the particular cable in the OT's link. It needs either a separate power supply that I am not sure whether is supplied or not or it can take power from pin 9 on the DB9. The latter isn't standard but is a reasonable thing to do as this pin is usually uncommitted. It would probably be an easy mod to the KAT500. AB2TC - Knut |
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