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(OT) Grounding Mat

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Chris W7CTH

(OT) Grounding Mat

Does your grounding mat need to be grounded along with your wrist strap?
What type of grounding mat do you like best?

Thanks
Chris W7CTH

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Don Cunningham

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

Chris,
I bought a very nice set from Radio Shack that contained a nice wrist strap
and the anti-static mat with a long ground lead for around $30. The wrist
strap has a bananna plug that plugs into a mount on the mat itself and from
that central point the ground wire (10' long) with an alligator clip on the
end. That makes a solid connection to the same point and worked very well
for me. I would say that mat needs to be grounded and tied to the wrist
strap, or I would think, at least grounded at the same point. Hope that
helps, and can look up a stock number if you don't see it on the RS site.
The mat is bright red, hi.
73,
Don, WB5HAK

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K6LMP

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Chris W7CTH

yes, absolutely the grounding mat must be attached to a good ground, as well as the alligator clip on the end of the coiled wire on your wrist strap.

I think almost any brand will do, as long as it clearly states on the label that it is intended to prevent ESD (ElectroStatic Discharge).

For myself, since I had it handy, I use a large sheet of copper that is connected by copper braid to the ground bus in my shack --a 2" diameter copper pipe, about 3 feet long, which in turn is connected by 4/0 cable to a series of copper stakes driven six feet into the ground, and also tied (at the far end from the shack) to the ground wire on the household distribution panel. (NOT to the white wire or neutral side of the electrical lines -- to the heavy wire that connects the breaker box to actual "earth" ground. At a very minimum the mat should be connected either to a metal cold water pipe that is known to provide a good ground, or to the "green wire" on an electrical outlet, or to a station ground as I described.

Lew K6LMP

On Mar 24, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Chris Hembree wrote:

> Does your grounding mat need to be grounded along with your wrist strap?
> What type of grounding mat do you like best?
>
> Thanks
> Chris W7CTH
>
>
>
>
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Chris W7CTH

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

Thanks for the info. I known for sure that the green wire ground will be easy to get to. Our house is only 7 years old. So the grounds should be good.I will plug an ac test plug in to make sure.
The mat for Radio Shack look good also.
Thanks
Chris W7CTH

________________________________
From: Lew Phelps K6LMP <[hidden email]>
To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wed, March 24, 2010 7:53:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] (OT) Grounding Mat

yes, absolutely the grounding mat must be attached to a good ground, as well as the alligator clip on the end of the coiled wire on your wrist strap.

I think almost any brand will do, as long as it clearly states on the label that it is intended to prevent ESD (ElectroStatic Discharge).

For myself, since I had it handy, I use a large sheet of copper that is connected by copper braid to the ground bus in my shack --a 2" diameter copper pipe, about 3 feet long, which in turn is connected by 4/0 cable to a series of copper stakes driven six feet into the ground, and also tied (at the far end from the shack) to the ground wire on the household distribution panel. (NOT to the white wire or neutral side of the electrical lines -- to the heavy wire that connects the breaker box to actual "earth" ground. At a very minimum the mat should be connected either to a metal cold water pipe that is known to provide a good ground, or to the "green wire" on an electrical outlet, or to a station ground as I described.

Lew K6LMP

On Mar 24, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Chris Hembree wrote:

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lstavenhagen

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Chris W7CTH

The mat doesn't have to be grounded, but you, the rig, and anything else that's going to touch the rig all have to be at the same electrical potential at all times. So that generally means a wrist strap attached to the mat for you and some way to attach your soldering station to the mat also.

When I was preparing to build my K2, I splurged and bought a good Desco mat (Antistat T2) from Mouser. It was pricey but well worth it many times over. It came with hardware to attach to the mat and female plugs for plugging in 2 wrist straps (1M resistors are built in). It also came with a lead that fits over the grounding post on a 3-prong AC plug (also electrically attached to the mat through a 1M resistor), I put this over the ground prong on my soldering station. That got everything hooked up together via the suggested 1M resistance.

The other good thing is the mat doubles as a great mat for the operating table. It's vinyl on top so the rig, keyer, etc. all firmly stay put......

73,
LS
W5QD

Gary Hvizdak

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Chris W7CTH

Wed Mar 24 22:14:20 EDT 2010 LS (W5QD) wrote ...

The mat doesn't have to be grounded ...

--

All,

WARNING! The statement W5QD just posted is completely false! The ESD mat
must be grounded in order for it to be able to dissipate an electrical
charge. If you don't ground the mat, then you might as well not have it,
since your entire work area could very easily be floating at tens of
thousands of volts above ground, just waiting for "somewhere" to discharge
"to" and "something" to discharge "through"!

73,
Gary KI4GGX

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by K6LMP

Lew and all,

I would be *very* uncomfortable with a fully conducting sheet of metal
on the top of my workbench - I even consider it dangerous. If I were to
touch that surface with one part of my body and accidentally touch a
source of voltage with another part, current will flow through my body.
Just how dangerous that is depends on the voltage - but current can maim
and kill too (see below).
A fully conductive workbench surface negates the user protection that is
offered by the 1 megohm resistance in a wrist strap. That 1 megohm
resistor is there to limit the current if one contacts a high voltage
source, but still will be effective for dissipating a static charge.

The mat should be sufficiently conductive to bleed off static, but not a
zero resistance conductor. In other words, the mat should be "static
dissipating", but not a fully conducting surface. Just because we are
working with low voltage supplies does not make it safe. A short on a
high current capacity power supply or a battery (they have LOTS of
stored energy) can and will cause BIG sparks and flying molten metal.
A proper ati-static mat will bleed of a voltage source slowly and poses
no danger.

Yes, the anti-static mat should be connected to ground - but there is no
need to go overboard on the grounding thing. A connection to the
grounding conductor (green wire ground) of the power distribution system
is more than adequate. You should of course determine that the green
wire ground is actually intact. One of the inexpensive AC receptacle
testers will tell you whether or not it is connected properly.

Yes, those who have stated that the important thing is to keep
everything at the same potential are entirely correct. Take ICs out of
the anti-static wrapping and place them directly on the anti-static mat,
then touch the mat before picking that part up - if you are using a tool
to pick it up, place the tool in contact with the mat before touching
the part. It is just common sense - give the static a chance to drain
off before touching sensitive parts.

73,
Don W3FPR

Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:
> For myself, since I had it handy, I use a large sheet of copper that is connected by copper braid to the ground bus in my shack --a 2" diameter copper pipe, about 3 feet long, which in turn is connected by 4/0 cable to a series of copper stakes driven six feet into the ground, and also tied (at the far end from the shack) to the ground wire on the household distribution panel. (NOT to the white wire or neutral side of the electrical lines -- to the heavy wire that connects the breaker box to actual "earth" ground. At a very minimum the mat should be connected either to a metal cold water pipe that is known to provide a good ground, or to the "green wire" on an electrical outlet, or to a station ground as I described.
>
>
>
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daleputnam

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Gary Hvizdak

My bench, located in a very dry and static ridden part of the country, does not have a pure grounded mat... because of safety. If it, or the wrist strap were at a solid ground, then the current capablity would be very high, and the only resistance in the circuit..... would be me. And, would not be a safe condition...

however.. a high resistance.. say a meg or so... to ground.. will conduct and get rid of the static that would destroy a juntion/IC were it to see a solid ground.

so.. be careful with the totally connected ground... if you have one and it works for you...

Just be very aware that it is there at ground potential.. and it is just waiting for a nice source of ac or dc to be found.

--... ..---

Dale - WC7S in Wy

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Gary Hvizdak

Gary, you are entirely correct.

There is ONE exception - that the anti-static mat is common to
everything. If one is standing on an anti-static mat that is connected
to the anti-static mat on the workbench, which is in turn connected to
the wrist strap, and that is also connected to every piece of equipment
on the workbench, then yes, everything would be at the same potential.

HOWEVER - that is just not practical.

Much equipment at the workbench is grounded to the AC mains green wire
ground, and that is where your anti-static mat should be connected as
well, it just makes things easier all around. Any other method would
take a complete safety inspection of everything within reach of the work
position, and unless you are a professional trained in such matters,
there will likely be something that you overlooked. BE SAFE and connect
to the AC mains green wire ground - it is the easiest method, I just
don't understand why so many seem to search for alternatives that are
unsafe.

73,
Don W3FPR

Gary Hvizdak wrote:

> Wed Mar 24 22:14:20 EDT 2010 LS (W5QD) wrote ...
>
> The mat doesn't have to be grounded ...
>
> --
>
> All,
>
> WARNING! The statement W5QD just posted is completely false! The ESD mat
> must be grounded in order for it to be able to dissipate an electrical
> charge. If you don't ground the mat, then you might as well not have it,
> since your entire work area could very easily be floating at tens of
> thousands of volts above ground, just waiting for "somewhere" to discharge
> "to" and "something" to discharge "through"!
>
> 73,
> Gary KI4GGX
>
>

lstavenhagen

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Gary Hvizdak

>WARNING! The statement W5QD just posted is completely false! The ESD mat
must be grounded in order for it to be able to dissipate an electrical
charge. If you don't ground the mat, then you might as well not have it,
since your entire work area could very easily be floating at tens of
thousands of volts above ground, just waiting for "somewhere" to discharge
"to" and "something" to discharge "through"! <

Carefully reread what I posted, please. Don clarifies it too...

73,
LS
W5QD

Chris W7CTH

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I am just going to keep it simple. I live in Idaho and the air is very dry. I get a spark just turning the light off.
Thanks
Chris

________________________________
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: Lew Phelps K6LMP <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wed, March 24, 2010 8:47:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] (OT) Grounding Mat

Lew and all,

I would be *very* uncomfortable with a fully conducting sheet of metal
on the top of my workbench - I even consider it dangerous. If I were to
touch that surface with one part of my body and accidentally touch a
source of voltage with another part, current will flow through my body.
Just how dangerous that is depends on the voltage - but current can maim
and kill too (see below).
A fully conductive workbench surface negates the user protection that is
offered by the 1 megohm resistance in a wrist strap. That 1 megohm
resistor is there to limit the current if one contacts a high voltage
source, but still will be effective for dissipating a static charge.

The mat should be sufficiently conductive to bleed off static, but not a
zero resistance conductor. In other words, the mat should be "static
dissipating", but not a fully conducting surface. Just because we are
working with low voltage supplies does not make it safe. A short on a
high current capacity power supply or a battery (they have LOTS of
stored energy) can and will cause BIG sparks and flying molten metal.
A proper ati-static mat will bleed of a voltage source slowly and poses
no danger.

Yes, the anti-static mat should be connected to ground - but there is no
need to go overboard on the grounding thing. A connection to the
grounding conductor (green wire ground) of the power distribution system
is more than adequate. You should of course determine that the green
wire ground is actually intact. One of the inexpensive AC receptacle
testers will tell you whether or not it is connected properly.

Yes, those who have stated that the important thing is to keep
everything at the same potential are entirely correct. Take ICs out of
the anti-static wrapping and place them directly on the anti-static mat,
then touch the mat before picking that part up - if you are using a tool
to pick it up, place the tool in contact with the mat before touching
the part. It is just common sense - give the static a chance to drain
off before touching sensitive parts.

73,
Don W3FPR

Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:
> For myself, since I had it handy, I use a large sheet of copper that is connected by copper braid to the ground bus in my shack --a 2" diameter copper pipe, about 3 feet long, which in turn is connected by 4/0 cable to a series of copper stakes driven six feet into the ground, and also tied (at the far end from the shack) to the ground wire on the household distribution panel. (NOT to the white wire or neutral side of the electrical lines -- to the heavy wire that connects the breaker box to actual "earth" ground. At a very minimum the mat should be connected either to a metal cold water pipe that is known to provide a good ground, or to the "green wire" on an electrical outlet, or to a station ground as I described.
>
>
>
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by K6LMP

All,

Another point worth considering about the fully conducting work surface
is that it can actually damage components just as easily as no
anti-static mat at all.
If the component already has a charge, when it is placed on that fully
conducting surface, the discharge will be instantaneous, and the rate of
discharge can kill the part.

A real anti-static mat will provide a slower discharge (even though it
is in fractions of a second) and the part will not be damaged.

73,
Don W3FPR

Lew Phelps K6LMP wrote:
> For myself, since I had it handy, I use a large sheet of copper that is connected by copper braid to the ground bus in my shack --a 2" diameter copper pipe, about 3 feet long, which in turn is connected by 4/0 cable to a series of copper stakes driven six feet into the ground, and also tied (at the far end from the shack) to the ground wire on the household distribution panel. (NOT to the white wire or neutral side of the electrical lines -- to the heavy wire that connects the breaker box to actual "earth" ground. At a very minimum the mat should be connected either to a metal cold water pipe that is known to provide a good ground, or to the "green wire" on an electrical outlet, or to a station ground as I described.
>
>
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Rick Tavan N6XI

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Amen, Don. Plus, in dry climates like mine the body accumulates enough
static electricity in a matter of seconds to cause an annoying little shock
when touching real metal. I use the anti-static mat frequently to discharge
myself whenever I get out of my chair and before touching metal!

/Rick

On 3/24/10, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Lew and all,
>
> I would be *very* uncomfortable with a fully conducting sheet of metal
> on the top of my workbench - I even consider it dangerous. If I were to
> touch that surface with one part of my body and accidentally touch a
> source of voltage with another part, current will flow through my body.
> Just how dangerous that is depends on the voltage - but current can maim
> and kill too (see below).
>

--

Rick Tavan N6XI
Truckee, CA
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Jim Brown-10

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 22:47:59 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote:

>Yes, the anti-static mat should be connected to ground - but there is no
>need to go overboard on the grounding thing. A connection to the
>grounding conductor (green wire ground) of the power distribution system
>is more than adequate. You should of course determine that the green
>wire ground is actually intact. One of the inexpensive AC receptacle
>testers will tell you whether or not it is connected properly.

>Yes, those who have stated that the important thing is to keep
>everything at the same potential are entirely correct.

Yes. And the green wire is also where the wrist strap should be connected.

73,

Jim K9YC

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Mike Reublin

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Don Cunningham

I use the same one. The number is 276-2370. It's called an "Anti-Static
Service Kit".
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102871

73, Mike NF4L

Don Cunningham wrote:

> Chris,
> I bought a very nice set from Radio Shack that contained a nice wrist strap
> and the anti-static mat with a long ground lead for around $30. The wrist
> strap has a bananna plug that plugs into a mount on the mat itself and from
> that central point the ground wire (10' long) with an alligator clip on the
> end. That makes a solid connection to the same point and worked very well
> for me. I would say that mat needs to be grounded and tied to the wrist
> strap, or I would think, at least grounded at the same point. Hope that
> helps, and can look up a stock number if you don't see it on the RS site.
> The mat is bright red, hi.
> 73,
> Don, WB5HAK
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

W8JI

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

We spray the chairs and lightly spray our clothes, including
shoes, with that anti-static anti-cling spray stuff they
sell at supermarkets for laundry and clothing called "Static
Guard". It's in an orange and blue can. As a matter of fact
anyone doing any prototyping or repair or handling FET's has
to spray down their clothes, shoes, and chair. There is a
can on every bench.

You'd be amazed how much something that simple cuts down on
problems!

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W8JI

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

> I would be *very* uncomfortable with a fully conducting
> sheet of metal
> on the top of my workbench - I even consider it dangerous.

I consider it deadly. I would never have a metal electronics
work desktop. It not only is dangerous to the worker, it is
dangerous to equipment.

We work on carpet squares that we spray with anti-static
spray. It nicer on cabinets, stuff doesn't slide around,
safe for the worker, and clip leads don't short to bench and
melt.

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n7ws

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by W8JI

Also known as the, "You can't get a static charge on a wet cat" theory.

--- On Thu, 3/25/10, Tom W8JI <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Tom W8JI <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] (OT) Grounding Mat
> To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 8:01 AM
> We spray the chairs and lightly spray
> our clothes, including
> shoes, with that anti-static anti-cling spray stuff they
> sell at supermarkets for laundry and clothing called
> "Static
> Guard". It's in an orange and blue can. As a matter of fact
>
> anyone doing any prototyping or repair or handling FET's
> has
> to spray down their clothes, shoes, and chair. There is a
> can on every bench.
>
> You'd be amazed how much something that simple cuts down on
>
> problems!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>

Edward R Cole

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

In reply to this post by Chris W7CTH

I wear cotton clothes in the winter (when static is highest & air driest).

For the assembly of the K3, I merely tied the anti-static mat to a
metal ground in the radio and wore a wrist strap attached to the
mat. If I had to leave the bench, I always put on the strap before
touching the radio or any components being installed. If there were
anything to be soldered I would ground my solder station to the mat
with a simple clip lead. Yes, to be totally safe from discharge a
clip lead to the house safety ground would be best.

For some test equipment, isolation transformers should be used
because they ground circuits that you may not want grounded. If you
have not encountered this, then ignore this comment. (I had my
scope, signal gen, multi-voltage PS and Sinader all isolated. Then
the scope probe would not accidently ground out a circuit.

I have been handling static sensitive components at work for years
and only used a 3-M anti static mat, anti-static solder station, and
anti-static hand tools except the forceps were ordinary. Only had a
couple devices DOA (which could have happened before I got them).

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
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W8JI

Re: (OT) Grounding Mat

The text below sounds like the safest thing to me. I'll be
darned if I would strap my wrist to the ground pin of any
outlet in my house, whether it passed a test or not.

> For the assembly of the K3, I merely tied the anti-static
> mat to a
> metal ground in the radio and wore a wrist strap attached
> to the
> mat. If I had to leave the bench, I always put on the
> strap before
> touching the radio or any components being installed. If
> there were
> anything to be soldered I would ground my solder station
> to the mat
> with a simple clip lead. Yes, to be totally safe from
> discharge a
> clip lead to the house safety ground would be best.