OT: Hearing Aid Advice

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OT: Hearing Aid Advice

W7CS
Hi Guys & Gals,

I'm finally overcoming my procrastination (and ego) and am going to
be getting some hearing aids.  Finally the many explosions that my
ears were exposed to, during my military career, from large AA guns
(90 & 120 MM), experimental large ground to ground and ground to air
guided missiles, to grenades, mortars and small arms fire, has caught
up with me.  My ears have deteriorated to where I have difficulty
with hearing high frequencies, and therefore understanding many
conversations, especially those at a distance.

Over the years, I've been very frustrated with all the problems and
difficulties that my wife has had, with her high end devices.  I
realize that improvements are being made almost yearly, and new
models are addressing customers' complaints, and also one must be
willing to compromise.

 From my limited research and discussions with audiologists, there
are basically two general types,  In the ear and behind the
ear.  From a technical (and personal) standpoint I tend to favor the
behind the ear versions, as I allude to the other type like putting a
cork in the ear to plug up any outside sounds, and then inject
totally artificially amplified sounds.  I realize that this is a
requirement for some types of hearing loss, however, at this time,
mine is not very severe and gives me a choice of types.

A very high percent of ham radio operating is listening to and trying
to pull out, deep into the noise level, weak signals in the VHF/UHF
and microwave bands.  This I try to accomplish, somewhat successfully
(WAS, VUCC & 95+ DXCC on 2M CW), using narrow IF and audio
filters.  I've always used headphones with large comfortable and
effective earmuffs on them.  The muffs aid greatly to my
concentration in trying to decipher CW signals, that are many dB
below the noise.

Therein is my need for some advice and suggestions based on
experience.  I would expect that in this case that in "the ear"
devices might be appropriate as the muffed earphones could not be
satisfactorily used, with "behind the ear" types.
Maybe the best approach, in this case, would be to remove the hearing
aids and attempt to duplicate the hearing aids' response with the RX
EQ adjustments in the K3, and maybe also with an additional response
adjustment with an external MFJ  616 Speech Enhancer ?

One disadvantage with the "behind the ear" types, is that they tend
to interfere with the wearing of sun and reading glasses, also they
are more likely to fall off when engaged in certain recreational
activities, that I'm still quite involved in, such as downhill skiing
and dirt bike and ATV riding when wearing a helmet.  Since wearing of
a helmet has built in audio attenuation, the safest approach is
probably not to wear the "aids" during those activities.

There some neat options that now exist, especially for behind the ear
units.  These are such things as wireless remote controls that are
Bluetooth and TV adaptable, and an option for rechargeable
batteries.  You drop the aids into a magnetic coupled charging
fixture/box every night.  You now have a permanent place to store and
dry them, where you know where to find them the next day !

At this time I don't think I can afford ones with all the bells and
whistles and would like to stay in the 2k to 3k dollar range/pr,
including the remote unit.

So please sound off with your recommendations and thoughts.

Thanks es 73,

Chuck,  W7CS







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Re: OT: Hearing Aid Advice

David Christ
The most important thing is the audiologist.  Find a knowledgeable
one who is wiling to listen and work with you to meet your individual
needs.  Find one who is not tied to a single manufacturer.

David K0LUM


At 1:27 AM -0700 5/1/12, Chuck Smallhouse wrote:
>Hi Guys & Gals,
>
>I'm finally overcoming my procrastination (and ego) and am going to
>be getting some hearing aids.



>  <snip>
>
>So please sound off with your recommendations and thoughts.
>
>Thanks es 73,
>
>Chuck,  W7CS
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT: Hearing Aid Advice

gm3sek
David Christ wrote:
>The most important thing is the audiologist.  Find a knowledgeable one
>who is wiling to listen and work with you to meet your individual
>needs. Find one who is not tied to a single manufacturer.

Most important: find an audiologist who is a techie like yourself, and
can actually understand what "decibels" and "DSP" mean.

 From experience, this can save considerable embarrassment :-)


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: OT: Hearing Aid Advice

Jim Rhodes-2
In reply to this post by W7CS
Check out the VA, they have the good stuff and you are eligible if you are
veteran.

Jim K0XU Sent from my Xoom tablet
On May 1, 2012 3:27 AM, "Chuck Smallhouse" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Guys & Gals,
>
> I'm finally overcoming my procrastination (and ego) and am going to
> be getting some hearing aids.  Finally the many explosions that my
> ears were exposed to, during my military career, from large AA guns
> (90 & 120 MM), experimental large ground to ground and ground to air
> guided missiles, to grenades, mortars and small arms fire, has caught
> up with me.  My ears have deteriorated to where I have difficulty
> with hearing high frequencies, and therefore understanding many
> conversations, especially those at a distance.
>
> Over the years, I've been very frustrated with all the problems and
> difficulties that my wife has had, with her high end devices.  I
> realize that improvements are being made almost yearly, and new
> models are addressing customers' complaints, and also one must be
> willing to compromise.
>
>  From my limited research and discussions with audiologists, there
> are basically two general types,  In the ear and behind the
> ear.  From a technical (and personal) standpoint I tend to favor the
> behind the ear versions, as I allude to the other type like putting a
> cork in the ear to plug up any outside sounds, and then inject
> totally artificially amplified sounds.  I realize that this is a
> requirement for some types of hearing loss, however, at this time,
> mine is not very severe and gives me a choice of types.
>
> A very high percent of ham radio operating is listening to and trying
> to pull out, deep into the noise level, weak signals in the VHF/UHF
> and microwave bands.  This I try to accomplish, somewhat successfully
> (WAS, VUCC & 95+ DXCC on 2M CW), using narrow IF and audio
> filters.  I've always used headphones with large comfortable and
> effective earmuffs on them.  The muffs aid greatly to my
> concentration in trying to decipher CW signals, that are many dB
> below the noise.
>
> Therein is my need for some advice and suggestions based on
> experience.  I would expect that in this case that in "the ear"
> devices might be appropriate as the muffed earphones could not be
> satisfactorily used, with "behind the ear" types.
> Maybe the best approach, in this case, would be to remove the hearing
> aids and attempt to duplicate the hearing aids' response with the RX
> EQ adjustments in the K3, and maybe also with an additional response
> adjustment with an external MFJ  616 Speech Enhancer ?
>
> One disadvantage with the "behind the ear" types, is that they tend
> to interfere with the wearing of sun and reading glasses, also they
> are more likely to fall off when engaged in certain recreational
> activities, that I'm still quite involved in, such as downhill skiing
> and dirt bike and ATV riding when wearing a helmet.  Since wearing of
> a helmet has built in audio attenuation, the safest approach is
> probably not to wear the "aids" during those activities.
>
> There some neat options that now exist, especially for behind the ear
> units.  These are such things as wireless remote controls that are
> Bluetooth and TV adaptable, and an option for rechargeable
> batteries.  You drop the aids into a magnetic coupled charging
> fixture/box every night.  You now have a permanent place to store and
> dry them, where you know where to find them the next day !
>
> At this time I don't think I can afford ones with all the bells and
> whistles and would like to stay in the 2k to 3k dollar range/pr,
> including the remote unit.
>
> So please sound off with your recommendations and thoughts.
>
> Thanks es 73,
>
> Chuck,  W7CS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: OT: Hearing Aid Advice

k6dgw
In reply to this post by W7CS
I will reply to you off the list, Chuck.  I've got some 40 years of
hearing aid experience, however no need to clutter up everyone's inboxes
with a conversation.

However, for K3 owners:  Jim, K9YC, pointed out to me that I can get
close to 30 dB of equalization from the RX equalizer simply by starting
the lower freqs, which is where I hear, at -16 dB, and then setting the
overall audio level to HI and running the AF gain higher.  This
theoretically gives me 32 dB of differential equalization.  I've done
it, it's nowhere near enough for me, but it sure does does help.

He also suggested my TX equalization settings and in the few SSB
contests I engage in, I never fail to get at least one unsolicited,
"Really great audio" comment.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

On 5/1/2012 1:27 AM, Chuck Smallhouse wrote:

> I'm finally overcoming my procrastination (and ego) and am going to
> be getting some hearing aids.



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Re: OT: Hearing Aid Advice

Kevin Luxford
In reply to this post by W7CS
Hi Chuck,

I have had hearing aids for about 12 years or more.  I started with
Phonak analogs (BTE) which were great for hearing music (the audiologist
fitted a program which further emphasised the high frequencies), then
had some Phonak digital (BTE) which were also good, but I did not like
them for concerts as much as the old analogs.

I have just been fitted with ReSound Alera 7 BTE aids, and the
difference is like night and day.  I purchased the optional microphone
that my much better half can wear or clip to her clothing and I also
purchased the TV streamer.  Both of these devices use the 2.4 GHz band -
a bit like Bluetooth, but is not Bluetooth.  The TV streamer can be used
with any audio output - including Elecraft radios!  The bud which goes
in the ear is much smaller than the full in the ear molds that the
Phonaks require.  The advantage is that for me the build up of wax in
the ear is greatly lessened.  With the Phonaks, but 3 pm in a working
day, the irritation in the ear was just about intolerable, and I would
remove the aids and clean the wax from them and from out of my ear.  
Don't ask me how I did this - you would not want to know.  The Alera 7s
are so small that people often just do not notice them.

The only downside, so far, is that use of the wireless devices chews
through the aid batteries fairly quickly.  Also I have to ask the XYL to
ensure that her necklace can not bang against the microphone, as the
noise in the ear approaches the threshold of pain.

Another plus is that there is no acoustic feedback howl if I put on
earphones while wearing the aids.

All the best

73
Kevin
VK3DAP / ZL2DAP


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Re: OT: Hearing Aid Advice

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by k6dgw
On 5/1/2012 8:44 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> Jim, K9YC, pointed out to me that I can get
> close to 30 dB of equalization from the RX equalizer simply by starting
> the lower freqs, which is where I hear, at -16 dB, and then setting the
> overall audio level to HI and running the AF gain higher.  This
> theoretically gives me 32 dB of differential equalization.  I've done
> it, it's nowhere near enough for me, but it sure does does help.

An additional clarification about why and how this works.  Hearing loss
tends to vary with frequency from person to person, depending on their
noise exposure and various physical conditions that can cause hearing
loss. In general, hearing loss tends to be greatest at the higher
frequencies. The best hearing aids use very sophisticated DSP to
compensate for the frequency response of he loss, and use directional
mics.  Etymotic Research is one of the major mfrs of the DSP and the
mics, and their engineers are members of the Chicago section of the
Audio Engineering Society.  I know some of them fairly well on a
professional basis.

The frequencies that carry nearly all of the intelligibility of human
speech are between 400 Hz and 5 kHz, and the range between about 700 Hz
and 3 kHz is the most critical.  From an intelligibility point of view,
everything below 400 Hz is noise.  Since hearing loss is greatest at
higher audio frequencies, we can set the RXEQ in the K3 for maximum
suppression of the four lowest bands and maximum boost of the three
highest bands. This provides about 32dB of compensation for "typical"
hearing loss. Fred has pretty severe hearing loss, so it's not enough
for him, but as he notes, it helps.  For many it may be enough.  I have
moderate hearing loss, and when my wife and I are listening to NPR or
watching movies on Netflix, I turn up the highs and turn down the lows
to improve or understanding of speech.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: OT: Hearing Aid Advice

James MacMillan
In reply to this post by W7CS
Hello all,

Thanks for sharing the Hearing Aid thread on the list.
It is one of my favorite topics where my techie interest crosses being
married to a teacher of the hearing handicapped.  It is great when your
spouse knows about decibels and is licensed too.

I was browsing for DSP, eq and related topics many months ago and dug this
out of the archives to share with you.  It is a presentation about "Using
Audio Equalizers to
Improve SSB Communications".  It won't replace a modern DSP hearing aid but
may be of value to some folks.

FT-817 owner watching the KX3 arena.
73
Jim
WA8ZHN


http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7iUxmKJPlAYAQ9lXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1ZTJ2OGozBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1NNRTA4MF8yNDk-/SIG=12il75lqo/EXP=1336084657/**http%3a//www.na0tc.org/Equalization_Presentation,_Nov_6_2010.pdf
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