OT Lunar Echo Experiment.

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Sorry for using bandwidth. I thought that the following message received
from the ARRL was worth posting in case somebody who might be interested has
not seen it. I should have posted it yesterday.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD
* Lunar Echo Experiment looking for Amateur Radio Participants: The HF
Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) in Alaska and the Long
Wavelength Array (LWA) in New Mexico are planning an additional lunar
echo experiment for January 19-20. Interested radio amateurs are invited
to participate in this experiment by listening for the lunar echoes and
submitting reports. On January 19, listen on 6.7925 MHz from 0500-0600
UTC, and on 7.4075 MHz from 0600-0700 UTC. On January 20, listen on
6.7925 MHz from 0630-0730 UTC, and on 7.4075 MHz from 0730-0830 UTC
(depending on frequency occupancy at the time of operation, it may be
necessary to adjust the frequency slightly). Based on previous
experiments, investigators believe it should be possible to hear the
lunar echoes with a standard communications receiver and a simple 40
meter dipole antenna. The format for the transmissions will follow a
five second cycle beginning on the hour and repeating continuously. The
HAARP transmitter will transmit for the first two seconds. The next
three seconds will be quiet to listen for the lunar echo. Then HAARP
will transmit again for two seconds, repeating the cycle for one hour.
In the second hour, this five second repetitive cycle will be repeated
at a different frequency. All transmissions from HAARP will be CW (no
modulation). Depending on ionospheric conditions, it may or may not be
possible to hear the HAARP transmission directly via skywave
propagation. Since HAARP will not be using any modulation, it will be
necessary to use USB or LSB mode on the receiver to hear HAARP and the
lunar echo. Investigators are interested in receiving signal reports
from radio amateurs who may be able to detect -- or not detect-- the
lunar echo or the transmitted skywave pulse from HAARP. Submit reports
via e-mail <[hidden email]>, and list your call sign and the
type and location of your receiving equipment and antennas. --
Information provided by Ed Kennedy, K3NS, HAARP Navy Program Manager

* Crawlie F:



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[AC7AC]

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[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Hello Ron,

Thank you for your interesting comments and the web site information. Could
you hear the HAARP transmitter via a 'terrestial' path as well as via the
'lunar' path, and if so was the echo delay noticeably greater than that
caused by a typical EME path or roughly the same? I missed their schedule
this morning (-:

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD


Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

I ran across the announcement a few minutes before they started yesterday.
Listening with K3 S/N 00010 I heard the echoes on 6.7925.  I'd have called
the echo a typical trans-polar long-path signal but terrestrial signals
aren't delayed several seconds!

Interestingly, I could not hear any echo on 7.4075 when they QSY'd, even
though it was immediately after hearing them on 6.7925 MHz.

I'll try to record the signal tonight to send them with my reports.

Here's HAARP's web site:

http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/mbann.html

Ron AC7AC


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[w5tvw]

 I listened las night inside the house with a Sony ICF-7600G and got the
echoes well at times on 6792.5.  Could not hear them at all on 7407, too
much splatter from the BCB stations.

This was just by ear using an attic 40 meter dipole.

There was some pulse type QRM at times and also a "sweeper" signal on for a
slight while.  Also obviously, a few "jokers" decided to tune up and put
their "echoes" in!  Didn't detract from the test though.

Will try again tonight.  No computer program setup to monitor.  Is there any
"spectrum" type software that will work with Windows 98.  My "ham" computer
is an old klunker with a sound card.

73,

Sandy W5TVW


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Elecraft Discussion List'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] OT Lunar Echo Experiment.


Thanks for the post Geoff!

I ran across the announcement a few minutes before they started yesterday.
Listening with K3 S/N 00010 I heard the echoes on 6.7925.  I'd have called
the echo a typical trans-polar long-path signal but terrestrial signals
aren't delayed several seconds!

Interestingly, I could not hear any echo on 7.4075 when they QSY'd, even
though it was immediately after hearing them on 6.7925 MHz.

I'll try to record the signal tonight to send them with my reports.

Here's HAARP's web site:

http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/mbann.html

Ron AC7AC


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey
Mackenzie-Kennedy
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:02 AM
To: Elecraft Discussion List
Subject: [Elecraft] OT Lunar Echo Experiment.


Sorry for using bandwidth. I thought that the following message received
from the ARRL was worth posting in case somebody who might be interested has

not seen it. I should have posted it yesterday.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD
* Lunar Echo Experiment looking for Amateur Radio Participants: The HF
Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) in Alaska and the Long Wavelength
Array (LWA) in New Mexico are planning an additional lunar echo experiment
for January 19-20. Interested radio amateurs are invited to participate in
this experiment by listening for the lunar echoes and submitting reports. On
January 19, listen on 6.7925 MHz from 0500-0600 UTC, and on 7.4075 MHz from
0600-0700 UTC. On January 20, listen on 6.7925 MHz from 0630-0730 UTC, and
on 7.4075 MHz from 0730-0830 UTC (depending on frequency occupancy at the
time of operation, it may be necessary to adjust the frequency slightly).
Based on previous experiments, investigators believe it should be possible
to hear the lunar echoes with a standard communications receiver and a
simple 40 meter dipole antenna. The format for the transmissions will follow
a five second cycle beginning on the hour and repeating continuously. The
HAARP transmitter will transmit for the first two seconds. The next three
seconds will be quiet to listen for the lunar echo. Then HAARP will transmit
again for two seconds, repeating the cycle for one hour. In the second hour,
this five second repetitive cycle will be repeated at a different frequency.
All transmissions from HAARP will be CW (no modulation). Depending on
ionospheric conditions, it may or may not be possible to hear the HAARP
transmission directly via skywave propagation. Since HAARP will not be using
any modulation, it will be necessary to use USB or LSB mode on the receiver
to hear HAARP and the lunar echo. Investigators are interested in receiving
signal reports from radio amateurs who may be able to detect -- or not
detect-- the lunar echo or the transmitted skywave pulse from HAARP. Submit
reports via e-mail <[hidden email]>, and list your call sign and
the type and location of your receiving equipment and antennas. --
Information provided by Ed Kennedy, K3NS, HAARP Navy Program Manager

* Crawlie F:



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[VR2BrettGraham]

GM4ESD shared with us:

>Sorry for using bandwidth. I thought that the following message received
>from the ARRL was worth posting in case somebody who might be interested has
>not seen it. I should have posted it yesterday.

<snip>

>* Lunar Echo Experiment looking for Amateur Radio Participants: The HF
>Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) in Alaska and the Long
>Wavelength Array (LWA) in New Mexico are planning an additional lunar
>echo experiment for January 19-20. Interested radio amateurs are invited
>to participate in this experiment by listening for the lunar echoes and
>submitting reports. On January 19, listen on 6.7925 MHz from 0500-0600
>UTC, and on 7.4075 MHz from 0600-0700 UTC. On January 20, listen on
>6.7925 MHz from 0630-0730 UTC, and on 7.4075 MHz from 0730-0830 UTC
>(depending on frequency occupancy at the time of operation, it may be
>necessary to adjust the frequency slightly).

Hopefully for those who have a go, the Hainan woodpecker
won't rear its ugly head.

Which reminds me, I do not recall seeing any useful
feedback here as to how well the K3's noise blanker
deals with all the OTHRs on the ham bands nowadays.
The British & Chinese woodpeckers can be heard
just about every day on 80-10m, so somebody must
have had an opportunity by now...

73, VR2BrettGraham.

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[Vic K2VCO]

VR2BrettGraham wrote:

> Which reminds me, I do not recall seeing any useful
> feedback here as to how well the K3's noise blanker
> deals with all the OTHRs on the ham bands nowadays.
> The British & Chinese woodpeckers can be heard
> just about every day on 80-10m, so somebody must
> have had an opportunity by now...

The Chinese version can often be heard here in California on 7 MHz in
the morning, and so far the DSP blanker (parameter T2-7) has done the
job of removing it quite well.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Matt Zilmer]

>Which reminds me, I do not recall seeing any useful
>feedback here as to how well the K3's noise blanker
>deals with all the OTHRs on the ham bands nowadays.
>The British & Chinese woodpeckers can be heard
>just about every day on 80-10m, so somebody must
>have had an opportunity by now...
>
>73, VR2BrettGraham.

And here is another post about the NB.  It's not perfect, but the fact
that it actually has an effect and can kill noise is relevent.

- Already been posted.  Re-post for whoever needs it.

--matt, W6NIA
--k3 # 24

I have to admit I finally heard a NB work today.  It was K3 #24's.
Frankly, I'm amazed.... and very pleased.  I had been trying to prove
that the K3's NB wouldn't be any better than the other dozen or so
I've had time to try out over the years.  Read on.

There is some bizarre OTH monopulse radar going on, quite audible on
60m channels. It registers around S8 here.  I can kill it with IF MED1
or MED2 and a light dusting of the DSP T2-7.  With the NB on these
settings, the band noise shows S5 or so.  Back to the normal
background noise.  Mainly city-dweller noise.  No pops.  Just sky
noise or local stuff.

I apologize for being A Doubter.  At least there is a freq and time
for all to see the same results:  0500Z or so would do it, at least on
the West Coast of the US.  I've observed the same basic stuff(tm) on
60m over a span of weeks of band-scanning.

Not bad Elecraft!  Rep rate is maybe 8-10 Hz or so, and there are two
sources.  One at the S8 level, and another about S9+15.  Both can be
made to disappear at will.  With the right noise blanker that is.
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[VR2BrettGraham]

I had asked:

>Which reminds me, I do not recall seeing any useful
>feedback here as to how well the K3's noise blanker
>deals with all the OTHRs on the ham bands nowadays.
>The British & Chinese woodpeckers can be heard
>just about every day on 80-10m, so somebody must
>have had an opportunity by now...

Thanks to AC7AC, K2VCO & W6NIA for your responses.

Last time I asked, somebody suggested you can just
crank down the receiver's bandwidth & that should
suffice.  Not living next to one of these things at the
bottom of the solar cycle must be nice.

Out here, it's often only the transition to the stopband of
the OTHR that is less than S-meter pegging.  On 40m,
there is 200+ kc of S-meter pegging b'cast in your face,
too.  Probably the only more extreme environment is faced
by those poor 5B4s within spitting distance of Akrotiri.

It is how well the K3's NB works in those situations that
is of interest.  I believe, just like how what 10m has
become in SE Asia only became a concern to the rest
of the world when conditions returned, in time the importance
of the NB will become evident in Elecraft's domestic
market.  Hopefully they got it right - so far it's hard to tell,
but it seems during development & apparently so far no
customer has had an opportunity to try one in such an
environment, as it does not exist in NA.

Perhaps with K3s arriving in UK, one of the Gs will take one
on holiday to 5B & have a go.

73, VR2BrettGraham.

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