OT: PLT latest
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Please forgive this intrusion into the Elecraft reflector, but it is an
issue of international importance (not just Europe) for all radio amateurs to protect the spectrum from pollution. The RSGB is about to release the statement below and it would appear that PLT lobbyists will get their way unless we can otherwise persuade them. David G3UNA RSGB EMCC update on PLT prEN50561-1 In 2011 a PLT EMC standard known as prEN 50561-1 was proposed by CENELEC. The proposed PLT standard was rejected by a majority of the National Standards Committees (NCs) of the EU countries who approve all new standards. Many NCs made comments to help improve the proposed standard, some comments questioned the very high radio pollution levels that would be permitted from PLT devices. Other comments would have helped to improve the test methodology. Usually in these situations the CENELEC committee preparing the proposed standard would take note and make changes that reflect the comments with the aim of achieving full consensus of all stakeholders. A revised version of the PLT standard is about to be circulated, to be voted on by the NCs. For all intents and purposes we believe it is identical to the previous rejected standard. The valuable and helpful comments from the NCs have essentially been ignored. Representatives of PLT manufacturers dominate the CENELEC Working Group 11 (WG11) that wrote the proposed standard. PLT manufacturers have been aggressively lobbying members of the NCs to approve the standard as it would provide a legal basis for high PLT emission levels. The EU Commission's EMC advisor who is responsible for ensuring that all EU EMC standards comply with the EMC Directive has stated that the proposed PLT standard does not meet the Essential Requirements of the EMC Directive and notified CENELEC. However, CENELEC has decided to ignore the advice of the EU EMC advisor and continue with putting the proposed PLT standard out for voting by the NCs. Should prEN 50561-1 be voted through by the National Committees it risks meaning that manufacturers of virtually any new device or product will want to use the very high radio pollution levels allowed by prEN 50561-1, claiming it as a precedent. An example case being the invertors used to connect solar cells to the grid where a proposed standard will allow pollution levels similar to PLT but at all frequencies so no amateur band notches (a "notch" is a range of frequencies where the transmit power of the PLT device is reduced). Other products that could take advantage of this precedent include LED lighting. In effect, the proposed PLT standard will make the provisions of the EMC Directive irrelevant. It's not just HF but higher radio frequencies too are at risk from what will be legally sanctioned pollution. Wireline services could also become victims, new high speed DSL technologies such as G.fast could also have issues due to PLT pollution being coupled from power cables to phone cables. There is only a very short time window to take action to prevent what will be an EMC disaster, many National Committees will vote early, due to the summer vacations. It is absolutely critical that anyone who values unpolluted radio spectrum urgently takes the following actions; . Contact your national amateur radio society and ask what they are doing. . Find out who is on your NC, contact them and explain the situation, it is important that they understand that the proposed PLT standard sets a precedent and its approval could lead to widespread spectrum pollution. . Get the word out, forward this statement to your local message boards and radio clubs. . When you have a QSO ask other European amateurs if they have heard about this issue. There is a great deal of "disinformation" being spread by PLT lobbyists, some of the statements that have been made are clarified below; PLT claim: Notching will protect the Amateur Bands Reality: The depth of the notch will depend on how linear the power network is. Resonances in cabling resulting in high voltage levels of the PLT signals combined with non-linear components in devices such as switched mode power supplies, can lead to the notches "filling in" with "hash" type noise which is difficult to identify as PLT. PLT claim: Ratification of EN50561-1 will protect the Amateur Bands Reality: In the same way that PLT manufacturers now flout EN55022 they will be able to flout EN50561-1. It is just that the motivation will be less - at least until the next scheme for increasing data rate comes along. The only aspects of the new Standard that can be verified in the field by National Enforcement Agencies (such as OFCOM in the UK) are the maximum transmit level and the positions of the Notching Band edges. Within the new Standard the maximum transmit level is set at a higher level than today's typical PLT transmit power levels, and the notched frequencies follow today's practice as set by long-standing commercial considerations. PLT claim: EN 50561-1 will control PLT emissions, as there is currently no PLT standard. Reality: PLT devices are covered by EN 55022 which is the EMC standard for IT equipment -- this has been confirmed by the EU Commission. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=E-2009-2260&language=en <wlmailhtml:%7B734753FF-0008-409A-BC64-052A71AF53C4%7Dmid://00000499/%21x-usc:http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=E-2009-2260&language=en> PLT claim: PLT cannot work at EN 55022 levels. Reality: PLT devices can work at EN 55022 levels in most situations. Running at high power ensures PLT works in the remaining 1% of "difficult" situations. Mesh networking can address almost all of these difficult situations. High levels of pollution could result in "spectrum cleansing" where other spectrum users abandon spectrum to PLT due to PLT pollution. http://www.compliance-club.com/PLT/PLT%20book.pdf <wlmailhtml:%7B734753FF-0008-409A-BC64-052A71AF53C4%7Dmid://00000499/%21x-usc:http://www.compliance-club.com/PLT/PLT%20book.pdf> Page 23 PLT claim: Dynamic notching will protect the broadcast bands. Reality: Dynamic notching was committed to be implemented in Quarter 3 of 2010 by PLT manufacturers to PA Consulting. PA Consulting was researching PLT on behalf of the Ofcom (UK regulator). This failure to demonstrate dynamic notching in production units could mean that it doesn't actually work in the real world. This may be confirmed by the fact that there is no requirement in EN50561-1 that dynamic notching work in the presence of any interference (PLT for example). http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/technology-research/pltreport.pdf <wlmailhtml:%7B734753FF-0008-409A-BC64-052A71AF53C4%7Dmid://00000499/%21x-usc:http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/technology-research/pltreport.pdf> Pages 22 and 23 PLT claim: Power control will reduce PLT pollution levels. Reality: Power control was committed to be implemented in Quarter 2 of 2010 by PLT manufacturers to PA Consulting which was researching PLT on behalf of the Ofcom (UK regulator). This function has yet to be seen in production devices. PA consulting based its conclusions and recommendations on this commitment and the failure to deliver on this commitment makes a significant difference in the report's conclusions. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/technology-research/pltreport.pdf <wlmailhtml:%7B734753FF-0008-409A-BC64-052A71AF53C4%7Dmid://00000499/%21x-usc:http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/technology-research/pltreport.pdf> Page 57 The power control requirement in EN50561-1 is specified using an unrealistic test situation. Produced by the EMC Committee of RSGB 25 July 2012 For more information contact the EMCC via the EMC pages of the RSGB website http://www.rsgb.org/emc/ <wlmailhtml:%7B734753FF-0008-409A-BC64-052A71AF53C4%7Dmid://00000499/%21x-usc:http://www.rsgb.org/emc/> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Hello David,
How can I be kept advised of the latest development on this subject? The experience of RSGB may be helpful to me in Hong Kong. TNX & 73, Johnny Siu VR2XMC Principal Representative of Amateur Radio Sector in Radio Spectrum and Technical Standards Advisory Committee (SSAC) Office of Communications Authority (OFCA) Hong Kong SAR Government http://www.ofca.gov.hk/en/about_us/advisory_committees/SSAC/terms_of_reference/index.html ________________________________ 寄件人︰ David Cutter <[hidden email]> 收件人︰ [hidden email] 傳送日期︰ 2012年07月31日 (週二) 6:05 PM 主題︰ [Elecraft] OT: PLT latest Please forgive this intrusion into the Elecraft reflector, but it is an issue of international importance (not just Europe) for all radio amateurs to protect the spectrum from pollution. The RSGB is about to release the statement below and it would appear that PLT lobbyists will get their way unless we can otherwise persuade them. David G3UNA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by David Cutter
On 7/31/2012 3:05 AM, David Cutter wrote:
> Please forgive this intrusion into the Elecraft reflector, but it is > an issue of international importance (not just Europe) for all radio > amateurs to protect the spectrum from pollution. > > The RSGB is about to release the statement below and it would appear > that PLT lobbyists will get their way unless we can otherwise > persuade them. David -- it would be a lot easier to understand, even for us engineers who work in the field of telecomm standards in the USA, if we had a clue about the acronyms used in the RSGB release. I can take an educated guess. Others here may not be able to do so. (Example - in my career PLT stood for "Private Line Teleprinter".) -- Philip M. Kane Esq / P.E. (K2ASP) K2/100 s/n 5204 VP - General Counsel & Engineering Manager CSI Telecommunications, Inc. - Consulting Engineers San Francisco, CA - Beaverton, OR USA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Probably Power Line Telephony. Remember BPL?
Matt Zilmer Consultant - Product Management Dept. Magellan Navigation / MiTAC Digital Corp. Tel: (909) 394-6052 Cell: (909) 730-6552 Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Kane Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:49 AM To: David Cutter Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: PLT latest On 7/31/2012 3:05 AM, David Cutter wrote: > Please forgive this intrusion into the Elecraft reflector, but it is > an issue of international importance (not just Europe) for all radio > amateurs to protect the spectrum from pollution. > > The RSGB is about to release the statement below and it would appear > that PLT lobbyists will get their way unless we can otherwise persuade > them. David -- it would be a lot easier to understand, even for us engineers who work in the field of telecomm standards in the USA, if we had a clue about the acronyms used in the RSGB release. I can take an educated guess. Others here may not be able to do so. (Example - in my career PLT stood for "Private Line Teleprinter".) -- Philip M. Kane Esq / P.E. (K2ASP) K2/100 s/n 5204 VP - General Counsel & Engineering Manager CSI Telecommunications, Inc. - Consulting Engineers San Francisco, CA - Beaverton, OR USA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2
Power Line Telecommunications PLT isnt an exclusive term to the RSGB
ARRL often refers to as PLT/BPL (broadband over Power Line in many articles and communications to the FCC. FCC tightend the rules in US but it is still a potential problem here and around the world. On 7/31/2012 1:48 PM, Phil Kane wrote: > On 7/31/2012 3:05 AM, David Cutter wrote: > >> Please forgive this intrusion into the Elecraft reflector, but it is >> an issue of international importance (not just Europe) for all radio >> amateurs to protect the spectrum from pollution. >> >> The RSGB is about to release the statement below and it would appear >> that PLT lobbyists will get their way unless we can otherwise >> persuade them. > David -- it would be a lot easier to understand, even for us engineers > who work in the field of telecomm standards in the USA, if we had a > clue about the acronyms used in the RSGB release. I can take an > educated guess. Others here may not be able to do so. > > (Example - in my career PLT stood for "Private Line Teleprinter".) > > -- > Philip M. Kane Esq / P.E. (K2ASP) K2/100 s/n 5204 > VP - General Counsel& Engineering Manager > CSI Telecommunications, Inc. - Consulting Engineers > San Francisco, CA - Beaverton, OR USA > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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For the US/North America audience:
PLT=BPL It affects us all. Even though FCC has taken a tougher line in the US and BPL has had (very) limited success there, that's not the case elsewhere in the world. Does this matter in the US? You bet it does - do you think the low cost manufacturers of BPL/PLT kit will be any more diligent in meeting the EMC regulatory requirement than the PC manufacturers who leave out the filtering components in production machines? This is a big deal for any weak signal work on the amateur bands. Thank you David for alerting the wider ham radio community. I for one want to be able to hear the weakest signals with my K3 and KX3! 73 David G3WGN WJ6O
73
Dave G3WGN WJ6O |
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End of thread.
Good info, but let's take the discussion -off- reflector to keep b/w under control. 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator --- www.elecraft.com On 7/31/2012 2:04 PM, Dave Aslin, G3WGN wrote: > For the US/North America audience: > PLT=BPL > It affects us all. Even though FCC has taken a tougher line in the US and > BPL has had (very) limited success there, that's not the case elsewhere in > the world. Does this matter in the US? You bet it does - do you think the > low cost manufacturers of BPL/PLT kit will be any more diligent in meeting > the EMC regulatory requirement than the PC manufacturers who leave out the > filtering components in production machines? This is a big deal for any > weak signal work on the amateur bands. > Thank you David for alerting the wider ham radio community. I for one want > to be able to hear the weakest signals with my K3 and KX3! > 73 > David G3WGN WJ6O > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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