OT: QST's review of the Yaesu FTDX5000MP

[George Thornton]

When I was in the market for my K3 someone told me that what is at the
top of the heap today may be surpassed by someone else tomorrow.
Supposedly the Yaesu has a better receiver, at least on CW.  

What would bother me about this kind of a rig is that after spending all
that money on it, I may find myself owning an outmoded rig in a couple
of years.  They only maintain the current state of the art up to a
point, then they want to sell a new model.  I would be extremely mad if
I had bought the FT-2000 and now find the FT-5000 offering significantly
enhanced performance.

The other thing that would bother me is having to deal with product
defects.  Judging from what I read in the report, this unit already has
a number of issues.  That is not surprising for new technology but the
question is what are they going to do about it.  Sure, they will fix
some things now but I am probably going to have to send it in to the
factory for a month or more.

The beauty of the K3 is the absolutely stellar service.  Plus the fact
that most issues can be fixed with a simple swap of a board or a part.
Instead of sending the unit in whenever something goes wrong, I can with
the help of the factory figure out what is probably wrong and fix it
myself.  I just did that with a defective B encoder.

Further, as long as they continue to make K3's I know I am going to be
able to benefit from all the improvements.  I may have to pay a little
for parts but I am not going to have to shell out $5000 for a new radio.


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[Johnny Siu]

Hello George,

I have recently purchased a second hand K3 and discovered the KPA3 was not
working.  Since K3 is modular design, I simply sent the problematic KPA3 back
for repair.  Modular design is good for overseas user like myself.

A modular design is workable as long as majority of the users, Elecrafters, have
some technical knowledge (all of us passed the radio amateur examination).  Or,
the users, like the Elecrafters here, at least border to look into the radio. 
For commercial / institutional radios, when there are causal users not so
technical oriented or simply don't have the luxury of time, the approach in K3
may have to be carefulluy considered.

For most commercial radio manufacturers, I suppose they have to comply all the
ISO (i.e. ISO 9000, 9001, 9002) requirements.  Manufacturers will possibly be
worried about whether plug out / plug in modules will affect the performance of
the radios under those ISO requirements.

On the other hand, extensive support service (like Elecraft) has to be provided
to cope with all those updates and exchange / replacement of modules /
PCB.  Elecraft is doing very well now.  However, how about if Elecraft's sales
volume like the Icom, Yaesu and Kenwood (I think Wayne and Eric would like to
have that sales volume), extensive support service could be a burden from
business point of view.

I shall be back on the air again with K3 upon finish repair of the KPA3.
 cheers,


Johnny VR2XMC



----- 郵件原件 ----
寄件人﹕ George A. Thornton <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ [hidden email]
傳送日期﹕ 2010/11/16 (二) 8:28:39 AM
主題： Re: [Elecraft] OT: QST's review of the Yaesu FTDX5000MP

When I was in the market for my K3 someone told me that what is at the
top of the heap today may be surpassed by someone else tomorrow.
Supposedly the Yaesu has a better receiver, at least on CW. 

What would bother me about this kind of a rig is that after spending all
that money on it, I may find myself owning an outmoded rig in a couple
of years.  They only maintain the current state of the art up to a
point, then they want to sell a new model.  I would be extremely mad if
I had bought the FT-2000 and now find the FT-5000 offering significantly
enhanced performance.

The other thing that would bother me is having to deal with product
defects.  Judging from what I read in the report, this unit already has
a number of issues.  That is not surprising for new technology but the
question is what are they going to do about it.  Sure, they will fix
some things now but I am probably going to have to send it in to the
factory for a month or more.

The beauty of the K3 is the absolutely stellar service.  Plus the fact
that most issues can be fixed with a simple swap of a board or a part.
Instead of sending the unit in whenever something goes wrong, I can with
the help of the factory figure out what is probably wrong and fix it
myself.  I just did that with a defective B encoder.

Further, as long as they continue to make K3's I know I am going to be
able to benefit from all the improvements.  I may have to pay a little
for parts but I am not going to have to shell out $5000 for a new radio.


     
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[Rob May-2]

>
> What would bother me about this kind of a rig is that after spending all
> that money on it, I may find myself owning an outmoded rig in a couple
> of years. They only maintain the current state of the art up to a
> point, then they want to sell a new model. I would be extremely mad if
> I had bought the FT-2000 and now find the FT-5000 offering significantly
> enhanced performance.
>

Why would you be mad if you bought an FT-2000 and then Yaesu comes out with the FT-5000 with significantly better performance?  It costs twice as much, it'd better have significantly better performance.  Now if I was an FT-9000 owner, I'd really be ticked off!  :)

Rob
NV5E
     
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[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2010 15 Nov 20:00 -0600, Rob May wrote:
>
>
> Why would you be mad if you bought an FT-2000 and then Yaesu comes out with the FT-5000 with significantly better performance?  It costs twice as much, it'd better have significantly better performance.  Now if I was an FT-9000 owner, I'd really be ticked off!  :)

So that's why we're here as Elecraft customers.  :-)

73, de Nate N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
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[Lu Romero - W4LT]

Joe:

Ahhh, Product Marketing/Management. I miss it so. :)

> Very bad design with slick marketing.

You mean it was designed by Sony Broadcast?  :)

Your points are dead on.  But I think there is more.  It may be that in the
next two years, they will be able to offer you the upgraded TS590S(G) with a
real dual receiver system and quality IF filters, or they will bail from the
market altogether.  Successful patterns are repeated in Product Marketing.
This looks to me like a "stalling" tactic while working on proving market
segment competitiveness to help make a decision; continue to play or fold?

More than likely, funds were limited because they were starved for product
development resources while merging with JVC, and Corporate wants better
data to see if the Amateur Radio market makes sense, so they chose to stay
with the basic TS570 "platform" and "enhance" it much in the same way
Betacam became BetacamSP (some added signals here, some metal tape there.
Presto!).  

Good Marketing will take care of the rest!  "We build Legends" is
"performance by association" from the era when there were resources for
product line development and R&D.  There's still a lot of Goodwill from the
TS950/TS850 days! Even from TS520 days!

And Larry, you're right, from a technical perspective, the 590 receiver
schema is really Goofy!  

But they will sell a ton of them, as will Ten Tec with the Eagle, which is
the 590's true competitor IMHO!

Then there is the Icom Behemoth. I still think that all the Icom Marketing
folks are disciples of Alfred P. Sloan.  Their product line looks exactly
like General Motors in the late 60's early 70's.  Products from Cradle to
Grave, with a sports car and some trucks thrown in for good measure!

Elecraft's well targeted market niche is being attacked from above by the
FTdx5k and from below by the 590 and to a lesser extent, the Eagle.  Most of
the erosion will be in the lower side of the equation.  Main K3 competitor
is really the IC7600, and technically it leaves a lot to be desired and is
not as customizable, but undercuts K3 in price and it has the Icom "mystique
by association".  Icom has done a masterful job at brand identity.  

So the K3 niche is still rather exclusive, but eroding a little bit.

Frankly, Yaesu has just cannibalized the FTdx9k product line AFAIC!  That
platform is a dead end now and must be awfully expensive to continue to
market, so I expect for it to quietly fade away.

Elecraft is a lot like Honda in the mid 70's.  Pick the niche, build a solid
product and back it with uncompromising service, winning one customer at a
time.    

-lu-w4lt-
K3 # 3192


----------------------

Message: 29
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 17:13:35 -0500
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: QST's review of the Yaesu FTDX5000MP
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


>> That makes absolutely no sense to me. Can you or anyone else here
>> well versed in radio design please explain to me why the Kenwood
>> engineers would do this?

The best guess is that Kenwood did not want to invest in 1) the high
performance front end (bandpass) filters for the non-amateur bands,
2) quality 6 KHz and 15 KHz (low frequency) IF filters, 3) give up
coverage +/- 500 KHz of the "first" IF, and 4) their unlocked DDS
synthesizer would not work above 33 MHZ (limiting down conversion
to a maximum frequency of 22 MHz).

Very bad design with slick marketing.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

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[Edward R Cole]

I had the brochure of the K3 on my bulletin board for several years
as "unabtainium".  I studied the reviews, and considered the comments
of several owners of the K3, and it finally came down to raiding my
401K for the $3,199.97 that I spend for my K3/10+KRX3.  That is more
than my first car cost in 1965 (Mustang).  And I consider it my last
significant ham purchase now that I am retired.  Fortunately, it
appears to be a good investment since it is continually improving
thru firmware advances (the promise of SDR technology).

I have lots invested in my ham hobby (if I were to total everything
it might approach $15-20K acquired over 50-years).  In 2008 I spent
$5K installing a 16-foot dish (to work maybe 200-400 hams world-wide
on 1296-eme).  But then I do not own a $35K Harley, or a $80K
motorhome, either.

For what its worth the $6K Yaesu represents two month's retirement
income.  But It would not interest me even if I were a
Millionaire.  If I had six figure income it would go into some fine
test equipment (and some travel with my wife to exotic places).

73, Ed - KL7UW
500-KHz to 10-GHz

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:01:19 -0500
From: KW4H <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: QST's review of the Yaesu FTDX5000MP
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
         <AANLkTi=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Not to be deliberately crass, but I have absolutely no use for a $6,000+
radio -- contesting or not.  Like most hams, this is a hobby I do for fun,
and spending that kind of money on a transceiver is virtually unthinkable.
For the price of that rig, I could buy some new living room furniture and
take the XYL on a two week Caribbean cruise.

73!

Steve, KW4H





73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-800*w, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
*temp not in service
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[KW4H]

I pretty much did the same thing -- I'm close to retirement and made my last
significant transceiver purchase a couple of years ago.  Personally, I love
anything Elecraft (especially the KX1), but I did end up with an Omni-VII as
my main rig, which I'm very happy with. My point is that for around $3k I
can get a mighty fine radio that I'll be happy with and can handle a variety
of operating circumstances.  When you get significantly above that, the
return on investment becomes narrower and it becomes more of a status
symbol.  I've been a professional communicator all of my working life, and
while the difference between a 3-dollar radio and a 3-thousand-dollar radio
is huge, the difference between a 3-thousand-dollar radio and a
6-thousand-dollar radio is mostly features.

Steve, KW4H

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Edward R. Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I had the brochure of the K3 on my bulletin board for several years
> as "unabtainium".  I studied the reviews, and considered the comments
> of several owners of the K3, and it finally came down to raiding my
> 401K for the $3,199.97 that I spend for my K3/10+KRX3.  That is more
> than my first car cost in 1965 (Mustang).  And I consider it my last
> significant ham purchase now that I am retired.  Fortunately, it
> appears to be a good investment since it is continually improving
> thru firmware advances (the promise of SDR technology).
>
> I have lots invested in my ham hobby (if I were to total everything
> it might approach $15-20K acquired over 50-years).  In 2008 I spent
> $5K installing a 16-foot dish (to work maybe 200-400 hams world-wide
> on 1296-eme).  But then I do not own a $35K Harley, or a $80K
> motorhome, either.
>
> For what its worth the $6K Yaesu represents two month's retirement
> income.  But It would not interest me even if I were a
> Millionaire.  If I had six figure income it would go into some fine
> test equipment (and some travel with my wife to exotic places).
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> 500-KHz to 10-GHz
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:01:19 -0500
> From: KW4H <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: QST's review of the Yaesu FTDX5000MP
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID:
>          <AANLkTi=[hidden email]<rnbsm%[hidden email]>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Not to be deliberately crass, but I have absolutely no use for a $6,000+
> radio -- contesting or not.  Like most hams, this is a hobby I do for fun,
> and spending that kind of money on a transceiver is virtually unthinkable.
> For the price of that rig, I could buy some new living room furniture and
> take the XYL on a two week Caribbean cruise.
>
> 73!
>
> Steve, KW4H
>
>
>
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> ======================================
> BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
> EME: 144-800*w, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter?
> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> ======================================
> *temp not in service
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2010 15 Nov 21:49 -0600, Luis V. Romero wrote:
> Good Marketing will take care of the rest!  "We build Legends" is
> "performance by association" from the era when there were resources for
> product line development and R&D.  There's still a lot of Goodwill from the
> TS950/TS850 days! Even from TS520 days!

Bingo!  I've long thought that Kenwood had rested on its laurels from
the TS-520/TS-820/TS-830 era.  That's not say that some of their later
products weren't good, just that they had lost their edge, especially to
Yaesu in the early '90s.

> And Larry, you're right, from a technical perspective, the 590 receiver
> schema is really Goofy!

It strikes me as rather odd as well.  I suppose that the Kenwood
engineers and management have their reasons, but wow!  When I read
preliminary information on it, I came to the conclusion that it was more
complicated than it needed to be.

> Elecraft's well targeted market niche is being attacked from above by the
> FTdx5k and from below by the 590 and to a lesser extent, the Eagle.  Most of
> the erosion will be in the lower side of the equation.  Main K3 competitor
> is really the IC7600, and technically it leaves a lot to be desired and is
> not as customizable, but undercuts K3 in price and it has the Icom "mystique
> by association".  Icom has done a masterful job at brand identity.  

And here I thought ICOM stood for "I Can Only Monitor"!  ;-)  To be
fair, I've only owned two Icom transceivers over the years, an IC-290A
2m all mode that was the first commercial rig I bought in 1985 and later
a 4AT HT.  Both served their purposes well.  Early on I would fall into
the Kenwood camp for HF gear and later Yaesu for all my gear.  In fact,
I was all Yaesu until I received the K3 last month.  I liked the idea of
performance that rivaled the big boxes in a size near that of my
FT-890AT.  Watching this list and seeing Elecraft's interaction with its
customers won me over.

> So the K3 niche is still rather exclusive, but eroding a little bit.

I'll agree the K3 is niche, but I'm not sure it's saleas are eroding.
Of course I don't have sales figures, but it would appear that at least
100 more have sold since I got mine on the air about a month ago which
seems healthy for a niche product that is positioned toward the high end
of a niche hobby.  Considering as well that the overall economy is not
doing as well as when the K3 was introduced, I'd say it's doing quite
well.

I'd also submit that as mentioned earlier in this thread that there are
those who would not be comfortable buying a K3 for their main
transceiver as they feel more comfortable going with a product from one
of the brand names.  I can understand that as it took me a while to
accept the idea as I spent several months evaluating Elecraft as a
company before I took the plunge.  The established players are known
quantities while Elecraft is still building its reputation in the larger
amateur radio community.  I'm a bit of a risk taker on things like this
so I suspect I'll receive some questions about the K3 at tonight's club
meeting.

> Elecraft is a lot like Honda in the mid 70's.  Pick the niche, build a solid
> product and back it with uncompromising service, winning one customer at a
> time.    

I take for granted you're referring to Honda cars.  In motorcycles, they
were a juggernaut at the time.  Which allowed them to bring products
like the CBX to market.  By 1980 they had forced Kawasaki into catch-up
mode where Kawi had been regarded as the performance king just a few
years earlier.  Then Suzuki came along with its GSX-R line...

73, de Nate N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html
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[Johnny Siu]

Hello Nate,

In relation to your comments about IC7600, I would add the following:

1.  There is 'manual notch within AGC loop' in IC7600.  This function is very
useful when I use it to notch out a strong offending carrier right adjoining to
my wanted desired weak signal.  Since the notch is within AGC loop, the wanted
weak DX signal will pop out right from the noise ground after the
carrier is notched.  The desense of AGC by the strong carrier disappears at the
same time.

I did an A/B comparison of the above during the recent CQ WW SSB contest.

2. When we calculate the cost for comparison, we have to add P3 to K3 to bring
it in line.  Bearing in mind, IC7600 only costs US$3,250 in Hong Kong

I am still running my K3 but just plainly spell out the fact as above.
 cheers,


Johnny VR2XMC
www.qrz.com/callsign/vr2xmc



----- 郵件原件 ----
寄件人﹕ Nate Bargmann <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ [hidden email]
傳送日期﹕ 2010/11/16 (二) 8:14:42 PM
主題： Re: [Elecraft] OT: QST's review of the Yaesu FTDX5000MP

* On 2010 15 Nov 21:49 -0600, Luis V. Romero wrote:
> Good Marketing will take care of the rest!  "We build Legends" is
> "performance by association" from the era when there were resources for
> product line development and R&D.  There's still a lot of Goodwill from the
> TS950/TS850 days! Even from TS520 days!

Bingo!  I've long thought that Kenwood had rested on its laurels from
the TS-520/TS-820/TS-830 era.  That's not say that some of their later
products weren't good, just that they had lost their edge, especially to
Yaesu in the early '90s.

> And Larry, you're right, from a technical perspective, the 590 receiver
> schema is really Goofy!

It strikes me as rather odd as well.  I suppose that the Kenwood
engineers and management have their reasons, but wow!  When I read
preliminary information on it, I came to the conclusion that it was more
complicated than it needed to be.

> Elecraft's well targeted market niche is being attacked from above by the
> FTdx5k and from below by the 590 and to a lesser extent, the Eagle.  Most of
> the erosion will be in the lower side of the equation.  Main K3 competitor
> is really the IC7600, and technically it leaves a lot to be desired and is
> not as customizable, but undercuts K3 in price and it has the Icom "mystique
> by association".  Icom has done a masterful job at brand identity. 

And here I thought ICOM stood for "I Can Only Monitor"!  ;-)  To be
fair, I've only owned two Icom transceivers over the years, an IC-290A
2m all mode that was the first commercial rig I bought in 1985 and later
a 4AT HT.  Both served their purposes well.  Early on I would fall into
the Kenwood camp for HF gear and later Yaesu for all my gear.  In fact,
I was all Yaesu until I received the K3 last month.  I liked the idea of
performance that rivaled the big boxes in a size near that of my
FT-890AT.  Watching this list and seeing Elecraft's interaction with its
customers won me over.

> So the K3 niche is still rather exclusive, but eroding a little bit.

I'll agree the K3 is niche, but I'm not sure it's saleas are eroding.
Of course I don't have sales figures, but it would appear that at least
100 more have sold since I got mine on the air about a month ago which
seems healthy for a niche product that is positioned toward the high end
of a niche hobby.  Considering as well that the overall economy is not
doing as well as when the K3 was introduced, I'd say it's doing quite
well.

I'd also submit that as mentioned earlier in this thread that there are
those who would not be comfortable buying a K3 for their main
transceiver as they feel more comfortable going with a product from one
of the brand names.  I can understand that as it took me a while to
accept the idea as I spent several months evaluating Elecraft as a
company before I took the plunge.  The established players are known
quantities while Elecraft is still building its reputation in the larger
amateur radio community.  I'm a bit of a risk taker on things like this
so I suspect I'll receive some questions about the K3 at tonight's club
meeting.

> Elecraft is a lot like Honda in the mid 70's.  Pick the niche, build a solid
> product and back it with uncompromising service, winning one customer at a
> time.   

I take for granted you're referring to Honda cars.  In motorcycles, they
were a juggernaut at the time.  Which allowed them to bring products
like the CBX to market.  By 1980 they had forced Kawasaki into catch-up
mode where Kawi had been regarded as the performance king just a few
years earlier.  Then Suzuki came along with its GSX-R line...

73, de Nate N0NB >>

--


     
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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

>> 2. When we calculate the cost for comparison, we have to add P3 to K3 to bring
>> it in line.  Bearing in mind, IC7600 only costs US$3,250 in Hong Kong

And you need to include a second Icom receiver (R?) to bring the
receive capability up to that of the K3 with KRX3.  Icom's "dual watch"
is a poorly performing joke compared to even the second complete
receiver in the FT-2000


73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

On 11/16/2010 8:59 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:

> Hello Nate,
>
> In relation to your comments about IC7600, I would add the following:
>
> 1.  There is 'manual notch within AGC loop' in IC7600.  This function is very
> useful when I use it to notch out a strong offending carrier right adjoining to
> my wanted desired weak signal.  Since the notch is within AGC loop, the wanted
> weak DX signal will pop out right from the noise ground after the
> carrier is notched.  The desense of AGC by the strong carrier disappears at the
> same time.
>
> I did an A/B comparison of the above during the recent CQ WW SSB contest.
>
> 2. When we calculate the cost for comparison, we have to add P3 to K3 to bring
> it in line.  Bearing in mind, IC7600 only costs US$3,250 in Hong Kong
>
> I am still running my K3 but just plainly spell out the fact as above.
>   cheers,
>
>
> Johnny VR2XMC
> www.qrz.com/callsign/vr2xmc
>
>
>
> ----- 郵件原件 ----
> 寄件人﹕ Nate Bargmann<[hidden email]>
> 收件人﹕ [hidden email]
> 傳送日期﹕ 2010/11/16 (二) 8:14:42 PM
> 主題： Re: [Elecraft] OT: QST's review of the Yaesu FTDX5000MP
>
> * On 2010 15 Nov 21:49 -0600, Luis V. Romero wrote:
>> Good Marketing will take care of the rest!  "We build Legends" is
>> "performance by association" from the era when there were resources for
>> product line development and R&D.  There's still a lot of Goodwill from the
>> TS950/TS850 days! Even from TS520 days!
>
> Bingo!  I've long thought that Kenwood had rested on its laurels from
> the TS-520/TS-820/TS-830 era.  That's not say that some of their later
> products weren't good, just that they had lost their edge, especially to
> Yaesu in the early '90s.
>
>> And Larry, you're right, from a technical perspective, the 590 receiver
>> schema is really Goofy!
>
> It strikes me as rather odd as well.  I suppose that the Kenwood
> engineers and management have their reasons, but wow!  When I read
> preliminary information on it, I came to the conclusion that it was more
> complicated than it needed to be.
>
>> Elecraft's well targeted market niche is being attacked from above by the
>> FTdx5k and from below by the 590 and to a lesser extent, the Eagle.  Most of
>> the erosion will be in the lower side of the equation.  Main K3 competitor
>> is really the IC7600, and technically it leaves a lot to be desired and is
>> not as customizable, but undercuts K3 in price and it has the Icom "mystique
>> by association".  Icom has done a masterful job at brand identity.
>
> And here I thought ICOM stood for "I Can Only Monitor"!  ;-)  To be
> fair, I've only owned two Icom transceivers over the years, an IC-290A
> 2m all mode that was the first commercial rig I bought in 1985 and later
> a 4AT HT.  Both served their purposes well.  Early on I would fall into
> the Kenwood camp for HF gear and later Yaesu for all my gear.  In fact,
> I was all Yaesu until I received the K3 last month.  I liked the idea of
> performance that rivaled the big boxes in a size near that of my
> FT-890AT.  Watching this list and seeing Elecraft's interaction with its
> customers won me over.
>
>> So the K3 niche is still rather exclusive, but eroding a little bit.
>
> I'll agree the K3 is niche, but I'm not sure it's saleas are eroding.
> Of course I don't have sales figures, but it would appear that at least
> 100 more have sold since I got mine on the air about a month ago which
> seems healthy for a niche product that is positioned toward the high end
> of a niche hobby.  Considering as well that the overall economy is not
> doing as well as when the K3 was introduced, I'd say it's doing quite
> well.
>
> I'd also submit that as mentioned earlier in this thread that there are
> those who would not be comfortable buying a K3 for their main
> transceiver as they feel more comfortable going with a product from one
> of the brand names.  I can understand that as it took me a while to
> accept the idea as I spent several months evaluating Elecraft as a
> company before I took the plunge.  The established players are known
> quantities while Elecraft is still building its reputation in the larger
> amateur radio community.  I'm a bit of a risk taker on things like this
> so I suspect I'll receive some questions about the K3 at tonight's club
> meeting.
>
>> Elecraft is a lot like Honda in the mid 70's.  Pick the niche, build a solid
>> product and back it with uncompromising service, winning one customer at a
>> time.
>
> I take for granted you're referring to Honda cars.  In motorcycles, they
> were a juggernaut at the time.  Which allowed them to bring products
> like the CBX to market.  By 1980 they had forced Kawasaki into catch-up
> mode where Kawi had been regarded as the performance king just a few
> years earlier.  Then Suzuki came along with its GSX-R line...
>
> 73, de Nate N0NB>>
>

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[Johnny Siu]

Hello Joe,

Dual watch is not equal to dual receivers for sure.  Therefore, I did not add in
KRX3 in cost comparison.  I am afraid that adding the cost of KRX3 is not a like
with like comparison.

My cost comparison is K3 single receiver Vs  IC7600 single receiver.  To this
end, dual watch in IC7600 is simply an additional feature to my convenience.

I once used XV144 with IC7600.  The band spectrum of IC7600 under 'dual watch'
can read both the uplink and downlink of a 2m repeater i.e. I read both
145.650Mhz and 145.050 Mhz in the band spectrum.  This is a very convenient
feature.
 cheers,


Johnny VR2XMC



----- 郵件原件 ----
寄件人﹕ "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ [hidden email]
傳送日期﹕ 2010/11/16 (二) 11:07:42 PM
主題： Re: [Elecraft] OT: QST's review of the Yaesu FTDX5000MP


>> 2. When we calculate the cost for comparison, we have to add P3 to K3 to
bring
>> it in line.  Bearing in mind, IC7600 only costs US$3,250 in Hong Kong

And you need to include a second Icom receiver (R?) to bring the
receive capability up to that of the K3 with KRX3.  Icom's "dual watch"
is a poorly performing joke compared to even the second complete
receiver in the FT-2000


73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

On 11/16/2010 8:59 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:
> Hello Nate,
>
> In relation to your comments about IC7600, I would add the following:
>
> 1.  There is 'manual notch within AGC loop' in IC7600.  This function is very
> useful when I use it to notch out a strong offending carrier right adjoining
to
> my wanted desired weak signal.  Since the notch is within AGC loop, the wanted
> weak DX signal will pop out right from the noise ground after the
> carrier is notched.  The desense of AGC by the strong carrier disappears at
the

> same time.
>
> I did an A/B comparison of the above during the recent CQ WW SSB contest.
>
> 2. When we calculate the cost for comparison, we have to add P3 to K3 to bring
> it in line.  Bearing in mind, IC7600 only costs US$3,250 in Hong Kong
>
> I am still running my K3 but just plainly spell out the fact as above.
>  cheers,
>
>
> Johnny VR2XMC
> www.qrz.com/callsign/vr2xmc

     
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[Benny Aumala-2]

Nice to see new good rigs on market.
We have plenty to choose, it is clearly bonus for all hams.

When K3 came I told this RX architecture will soon be a standard
(as Rob Sherwood told long time ago).

To-day we have K3 and welcome Kenwood back again with TS590.
There is TT 599 Eagle and now this FT5K. Fine rigs all, and available.
Waiting for Icom.

Ft5K has possibility for class-A PA, which is a bonus for everybody on
SSB bands.
This could be copied by other manufacturers, too.

But I am happy with my K3 s/n 119 with latest softwares.
Service from Elecraft to Finland is impeccable.
We hams live good times.

Benny   OH9NB
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[K2QI]

Hi Benny,

Only new Icom expected is the IC-9100 Daylight to DC box.  Looks
interesting, and would most likely be compared to the Kenwood TS-2000.

The receiver is a double conversion superheterodyne. They claim +30 dBm
IP3.  How they tested that, I don't know.  Their promotional material also
states that the first receiver has a 15 KHz filter for the first IF, and 3/6
KHz filters are optional.  Not sure about the second receiver.

Price is another issue.  If you look at Icom's market pricing strategy, then
expect this rig to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $4,000 without the
1.2GHz module or additional filters.  Maybe, and this is just my estimate,
that fully loaded will probably be somewhere around $4500.

I'm waiting to see what reviewers have to say before jumping to
conclusions.  One thing that I can say right off the bat, is that I wish it
had the screen from the 7600 or 7700.  Right now, it looks like they took
the LCD panel straight off an Icom 746.

73,
James K2QI

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Benny Aumala <[hidden email]>wrote:

> To-day we have K3 and welcome Kenwood back again with TS590.
> There is TT 599 Eagle and now this FT5K. Fine rigs all, and available.
> Waiting for Icom.
>
> Benny   OH9NB
>
>
73 de James K2QI
President UNARC/4U1UN
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[n7ws]

There is a serious misconception by some true believers that Elecraft "invented" down-conversion (or at least conversion) to an i-f in the 8 to 9 MHz range.

Nothing could be further from the truth, and I know that the folks at Elecraft would never claim as much.  I had a Henry Radio Tempo-1 (Yaesu FT-200) back when radios warmed up the shack.  It was a 9 MHz i-f transceiver.

Wes Stewart,  N7WS

--- On Tue, 11/16/10, Benny Aumala <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> When K3 came I told this RX architecture will soon be a
> standard
> (as Rob Sherwood told long time ago).


     
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[K2QI]

I believe some of the older Kenwood's also had a low MHz IF out - 8.8 or 8.9
MHz.

I know this because I have a Kenwood SM-230 that requires an 8.9 MHz IF
input.

James K2QI

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is a serious misconception by some true believers that Elecraft
> "invented" down-conversion (or at least conversion) to an i-f in the 8 to 9
> MHz range.
>
> Nothing could be further from the truth, and I know that the folks at
> Elecraft would never claim as much.  I had a Henry Radio Tempo-1 (Yaesu
> FT-200) back when radios warmed up the shack.  It was a 9 MHz i-f
> transceiver.
>
> Wes Stewart,  N7WS
>
> --- On Tue, 11/16/10, Benny Aumala <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > When K3 came I told this RX architecture will soon be a
> > standard
> > (as Rob Sherwood told long time ago).
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

--
73 de James K2QI
President UNARC/4U1UN
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[gdaught6]

> I believe some of the older Kenwood's also had a low MHz IF out - 8.8 or 8.9
> MHz.
>
> I know this because I have a Kenwood SM-230 that requires an 8.9 MHz IF
> input.
>
> James K2QI
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > There is a serious misconception by some true believers that Elecraft
> > "invented" down-conversion (or at least conversion) to an i-f in the 8 to 9
> > MHz range.

Look at the "HBRTR" in QST of April and May, 1967.

73,

George T Daughters, K6GT
CU in the California QSO Party (CQP)
October 1-2, 2011


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[k6dgw]

Similar to my Swan 500 [another shack warmer] with a 5 MHz IF.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
On 11/16/2010 2:25 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Nothing could be further from the truth, and I know that the folks at
> Elecraft would never claim as much.  I had a Henry Radio Tempo-1
> (Yaesu FT-200) back when radios warmed up the shack.  It was a 9 MHz
> i-f transceiver.
>
> Wes Stewart,  N7WS
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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Kok Chen]

On Nov 16, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> There is a serious misconception by some true believers that Elecraft "invented" down-conversion (or at least conversion) to an i-f in the 8 to 9 MHz range.
>
> Nothing could be further from the truth, and I know that the folks at Elecraft would never claim as much.  I had a Henry Radio Tempo-1 (Yaesu FT-200) back when radios warmed up the shack.  It was a 9 MHz i-f transceiver.

Check out "Solid-state Receiver Design with the MOS Transistor" in April and May 1967 issues of QST (WB6AIG is now K6GT).  

Part II of the article starts with the description of the "9 Mc I.F. amplifier" and mentioned that the crystal filter is the same one as used in the SX-146 (part of the "Hallicrafter Twins").

73
Chen, W7AY

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[Kok Chen]

On Nov 16, 2010, at 3:17 PM, Kok Chen wrote:

> Check out "Solid-state Receiver Design with the MOS Transistor" in April and May 1967 issues of QST (WB6AIG is now K6GT).  

Whoops, George beat me to it :-).

73
Chen, W7AY

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