OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer

[DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL]

OK...here it is in a nutshell.

1.  CW Skimmer will profoundly change serious-level contesting forever

2.  Serious contesters use two radios at once (called SO2R or single
op, 2 radios).  While they CQ on one band (using a memory
keyer...voice or cw), they TUNE a 2nd band, looking for additional
contacts, using their 2nd radio.  This is very intense contesting and
require super-human concentration and skill to be really successful.
It means that you are constantly switching focus from the Radio A to
Radio B (the switching is automatic, controlled by the contest
software).

3.  Currently, tuning the 2nd band is a manual process, requiring one
to (a) find stations between CQs on the other band, and (b) copy who
it is and (c) then decide if you need it or not and if you do, (d)
work it while not "losing" your "RUN" frequency (the first radio
frequency where you are CQing and working guys who answer your CQs).

4.  With CW Skimmer, one no longer has to use their skill to (a) tune
the 2nd band and (b) figure out who it is.  The computer does this for
you....and all at once for the whole band.

5.  The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of
who has the best set of HUMAN skills...skills at using their
equipment, but mostly skills at copying callsigns and working guys and
tuning a second radio and doing the same.  With CW Skimmer, the
"second radio" skill is effectively eliminated. The computer does it
for you.  This is VERY FAR from DSP, or a yagi, or an amp, or an
electronic keyer because.  Those things made CHORES easier.  This
thing makes the only human element left (tuning the band and finding
callsign) meaningless.  It eliminates the HUMAN element.  All you need
now is a clerk to "point and shoot" or "point and click" whatever you
want to call it.

6.  With this "tool," a single op can now be SO6R and have a CW
SKimmer on every band.  Someone will write a script so that
multipliers bubble up as found...and even non-mults, but new Q's, will
be easily flagged (and worked).  YOu wont have to "waste" time tuning
and copying the callsign of stuff that you already worked.

7.  CW decoders (such as included on Elecraft K3) only copy one
signal, which YOU tuned to.  This thing does the whole band at once.

8.  Yes, it is like an "automatic" packet/internet band-mapping tool,
except that use of those places one in the "Assisted" or "unlimited"
category, separate and apart from "single op all band."  Under the
current rules for all contest, the addition of CW Skimmer will NOT
cause a change in category away from Single Op All Band to the
Assisted or Unlimited category.  How could it?  Nobody else is helping
you get the callsigns.

9.  For many, especially those who feel that "packet ruined
contesting" or that "packet ruined DXing," this may turn out to be the
"packet ruined contesting" of the 21st century.  As many have pointed
out (if you want to read A LOT on this, go to the CQ-Contest
Reflector:  www.contesting.com  ), with this "tool," there is
currently no way to tell if the guy has a 2nd op in the shack, is
using packet, or is using CW SKimmer.  It makes adjudication a
nightmare (probably, impossible).

10.  Serious SOAB contesters have long done everything possible to
keep their category separate and apart from packet/internet users.
They want to keep the category "pure."  This will make that job very,
very difficult.

Why keep it "out?"  The same reason sailboat races do not allow
engines/motors.  The same reason why the Daytona 500 does not allow
jet engines to be used.  The same reason why people climb mountains
instead of taking a helicopter.   The same reason why some folks only
Bow-Hunt.

Sorry for the bandwidth, but there seems to be a fair about of
interest in this topic.

Hope this helps paint a clearer picture.

de Doug KR2Q
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[Neal]

In a word, YUCK!

Neal WA6OCP
K3/10/305

DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote

OK...here it is in a nutshell.

1.  CW Skimmer will profoundly change serious-level contesting forever

2.  Serious contesters use two radios at once (called SO2R or single
op, 2 radios).  While they CQ on one band (using a memory
keyer...voice or cw), they TUNE a 2nd band, looking for additional
contacts, using their 2nd radio.  This is very intense contesting and
require super-human concentration and skill to be really successful.
It means that you are constantly switching focus from the Radio A to
Radio B (the switching is automatic, controlled by the contest
software).

3.  Currently, tuning the 2nd band is a manual process, requiring one
to (a) find stations between CQs on the other band, and (b) copy who
it is and (c) then decide if you need it or not and if you do, (d)
work it while not "losing" your "RUN" frequency (the first radio
frequency where you are CQing and working guys who answer your CQs).

4.  With CW Skimmer, one no longer has to use their skill to (a) tune
the 2nd band and (b) figure out who it is.  The computer does this for
you....and all at once for the whole band.

5.  The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of
who has the best set of HUMAN skills...skills at using their
equipment, but mostly skills at copying callsigns and working guys and
tuning a second radio and doing the same.  With CW Skimmer, the
"second radio" skill is effectively eliminated. The computer does it
for you.  This is VERY FAR from DSP, or a yagi, or an amp, or an
electronic keyer because.  Those things made CHORES easier.  This
thing makes the only human element left (tuning the band and finding
callsign) meaningless.  It eliminates the HUMAN element.  All you need
now is a clerk to "point and shoot" or "point and click" whatever you
want to call it.

6.  With this "tool," a single op can now be SO6R and have a CW
SKimmer on every band.  Someone will write a script so that
multipliers bubble up as found...and even non-mults, but new Q's, will
be easily flagged (and worked).  YOu wont have to "waste" time tuning
and copying the callsign of stuff that you already worked.

7.  CW decoders (such as included on Elecraft K3) only copy one
signal, which YOU tuned to.  This thing does the whole band at once.

8.  Yes, it is like an "automatic" packet/internet band-mapping tool,
except that use of those places one in the "Assisted" or "unlimited"
category, separate and apart from "single op all band."  Under the
current rules for all contest, the addition of CW Skimmer will NOT
cause a change in category away from Single Op All Band to the
Assisted or Unlimited category.  How could it?  Nobody else is helping
you get the callsigns.

9.  For many, especially those who feel that "packet ruined
contesting" or that "packet ruined DXing," this may turn out to be the
"packet ruined contesting" of the 21st century.  As many have pointed
out (if you want to read A LOT on this, go to the CQ-Contest
Reflector:  www.contesting.com  ), with this "tool," there is
currently no way to tell if the guy has a 2nd op in the shack, is
using packet, or is using CW SKimmer.  It makes adjudication a
nightmare (probably, impossible).

10.  Serious SOAB contesters have long done everything possible to
keep their category separate and apart from packet/internet users.
They want to keep the category "pure."  This will make that job very,
very difficult.

Why keep it "out?"  The same reason sailboat races do not allow
engines/motors.  The same reason why the Daytona 500 does not allow
jet engines to be used.  The same reason why people climb mountains
instead of taking a helicopter.   The same reason why some folks only
Bow-Hunt.

Sorry for the bandwidth, but there seems to be a fair about of
interest in this topic.

Hope this helps paint a clearer picture.

de Doug KR2Q
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[Mike S-8]

At 09:05 PM 2/6/2008, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote...
>5.  The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of
>who has the best set of HUMAN skills...

Hams have (as a whole) always embraced new technology, but there are
probably some still complaining that heterodynes are unfair competition
for their spark gaps and crystal receivers.

Then why do you use electronic equipment? Why a K3 and not a Altoids
tin special? Perhaps smoke signals or shouting would be a better test.



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[Gregg W6IZT]

All debates aside, Alex VE3NEA cranks out some true amazing software!

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of WA6OCP
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer




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[Thom LaCosta]

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Mike S wrote:

> At 09:05 PM 2/6/2008, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote...
>> 5.  The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of
>> who has the best set of HUMAN skills...
>
> Hams have (as a whole) always embraced new technology, but there are probably
> some still complaining that heterodynes are unfair competition for their
> spark gaps and crystal receivers.

Soon the qso will read something like:

k3 here, observer is thom.  I know you copy this, so don't bother to answer.  No
need for signal reports, send electronic QSL.

73 k3hrn
Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

www.baltimorehon.com/                    Home of the Baltimore Lexicon
www.tlchost.net/hosting/                 Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month
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[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

Let's let the CW skimmer discussion rest for now. We've skimmed off all
the meaningful comments... ;-)

73, Eric   WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator

_..._


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[Julian, G4ILO]

W6IZT-2 wrote

All debates aside, Alex VE3NEA cranks out some true amazing software!

Then perhaps he should be credited with all the extra points earned with it! :)

OK, I've just caught up with the fact that Eric has called time on this discussion. If anyone still wants to talk about it, let's carry on at http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php/topic,164.0.html .