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OT; electrical safety

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ab2tc

OT; electrical safety

Hi,

This is totally off topic; I apologize.

I just received the new ARRL publication "grounding and bonding for the radio amateur". It is very interesting reading. I see that the NEC requires two ground rods for regular power installations; never mind any antennas. I swear that when when I moved into this house there were absolutely no ground rods installed. I just inspected our power pole that supplies our power. I could see no wires going in to the ground. So I have no idea where our "green wire" came from.

But I have have installed two 8 foot ground rods to ground my antennas and they are bonded to the AC entry panel. But what's up with this? I bet my neighbors have no ground rods installed either.

Knut - AB2TC

Jim AB3CV

Re: OT; electrical safety

I'm guessing you and your neighbors have grounding via a basement slab Ufer.

73

jim ab3cv

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 5:00 PM, ab2tc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is totally off topic; I apologize.
>
> I just received the new ARRL publication "grounding and bonding for the
> radio amateur". It is very interesting reading. I see that the NEC requires
> two ground rods for regular power installations; never mind any antennas. I
> swear that when when I moved into this house there were absolutely no
> ground
> rods installed. I just inspected our power pole that supplies our power. I
> could see no wires going in to the ground. So I have no idea where our
> "green wire" came from.
>
> But I have have installed two 8 foot ground rods to ground my antennas and
> they are bonded to the AC entry panel. But what's up with this? I bet my
> neighbors have no ground rods installed either.
>
> Knut - AB2TC
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
> nabble.com/OT-electrical-safety-tp7629429.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

Matt Zilmer-3

Re: OT; electrical safety

In reply to this post by ab2tc

Most house grounds are just a piece of re-bar hammered into the soil,
andthis is done before the foundation is poured around it. Ours is
barely visible except for the big chair clamp that secures the bare #8
wire to it. I've seen it other ways too, for example in the upper
midwest. The ground we had in Iowa was three copper-plated rods within
about one square foot, all bonded together. Not sure why anyone would
do that, but the builder did the same for all houses in that development.

73,

matt W6NIA

On 4/17/2017 2:00 PM, ab2tc wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is totally off topic; I apologize.
>
> I just received the new ARRL publication "grounding and bonding for the
> radio amateur". It is very interesting reading. I see that the NEC requires
> two ground rods for regular power installations; never mind any antennas. I
> swear that when when I moved into this house there were absolutely no ground
> rods installed. I just inspected our power pole that supplies our power. I
> could see no wires going in to the ground. So I have no idea where our
> "green wire" came from.
>
> But I have have installed two 8 foot ground rods to ground my antennas and
> they are bonded to the AC entry panel. But what's up with this? I bet my
> neighbors have no ground rods installed either.
>
> Knut - AB2TC
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/OT-electrical-safety-tp7629429.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
"A delay is better than a disaster."
-- unknonwn

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: OT; electrical safety

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

Or you are the ground! :-) Open your panel cover, if you are comfortable, and look for copper to grounding bar installation. I had my electrician bind an around the foundation wire to my box and then to the rebar. At the time I built there was no inspector, 2004. Can you believe it? Lots of pathetic electrical work in the world. Wonder why all the fires?

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Miller
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 4:04 PM
To: ab2tc <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT; electrical safety

I'm guessing you and your neighbors have grounding via a basement slab Ufer.

73

jim ab3cv

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 5:00 PM, ab2tc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is totally off topic; I apologize.
>
> I just received the new ARRL publication "grounding and bonding for
> the radio amateur". It is very interesting reading. I see that the NEC
> requires two ground rods for regular power installations; never mind
> any antennas. I swear that when when I moved into this house there
> were absolutely no ground rods installed. I just inspected our power
> pole that supplies our power. I could see no wires going in to the
> ground. So I have no idea where our "green wire" came from.
>
> But I have have installed two 8 foot ground rods to ground my antennas
> and they are bonded to the AC entry panel. But what's up with this? I
> bet my neighbors have no ground rods installed either.
>
> Knut - AB2TC
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
> nabble.com/OT-electrical-safety-tp7629429.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

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Don Wilhelm

Re: OT; electrical safety

In reply to this post by ab2tc

Knut,

When I built my house in 2001, only one ground rod at the utility entry
point was required. We built a house next door in 2009, and two ground
rods separated by 6 feet was required. So sometime between those two
dates the NEC requirements changed.

None-the-less, I have a perimeter wire around the house with a driven
ground rod at each corner. Since I have 45 degree corners on one side,
and several other 90 degree offsets that means I have 9 ground rods plus
the one at the utility entry, so I think I am "covered".

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/17/2017 5:00 PM, ab2tc wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is totally off topic; I apologize.
>
> I just received the new ARRL publication "grounding and bonding for the
> radio amateur". It is very interesting reading. I see that the NEC requires
> two ground rods for regular power installations; never mind any antennas. I
> swear that when when I moved into this house there were absolutely no ground
> rods installed. I just inspected our power pole that supplies our power. I
> could see no wires going in to the ground. So I have no idea where our
> "green wire" came from.
>
> But I have have installed two 8 foot ground rods to ground my antennas and
> they are bonded to the AC entry panel. But what's up with this? I bet my
> neighbors have no ground rods installed either.
>
> Knut - AB2TC
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/OT-electrical-safety-tp7629429.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: OT; electrical safety

In reply to this post by ab2tc

Re: I could see no wires going in to the ground.

They really hide them these days. I watched my house being built and noticed that just below the service box, they passed the ground wire from the inside of the wall to the outside, and then down to the ground rod. Since the wall was then covered with stucco, and the ground rod was covered with a concrete walkway, it is all now invisible.

Mark,
KE6BB
null
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k6dgw

Re: OT; electrical safety

In reply to this post by ab2tc

You probably have a "UFER" ground, named for Herbert Ufer who came up
with the idea of encasing the ground electrode in concrete to protect
ordnance storage compartments during WW2, often in the southwestern US
with very poor soil conductivity. In the latter 60's, the NEC permitted
it unless a buried water pipe was available, and sometime in the late
70's made them a requirement. The NEC now calls them Concrete Encased
Electrodes.

The NEC currently requires that CEE's be rebar in the concrete [usually
the foundation] and can be difficult to find since very little if
anything will be externally visible. Our home is 4 years old and I
can't see the actual ground connection. I can see the ground conductor
headed downward from the service entrance. I presume it connects to a
CEE. [:-)

As to your power pole: If it has a distribution transformer, it will
very likely have lightning arrestors on the primary with a ground
conductor and electrode. If it doesn't have a transformer, it's only
purpose is to hold up the conductors on insulators.

None of this drivel applies to RF.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 4/17/2017 2:00 PM, ab2tc wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is totally off topic; I apologize.
>
> I just received the new ARRL publication "grounding and bonding for the
> radio amateur". It is very interesting reading. I see that the NEC requires
> two ground rods for regular power installations; never mind any antennas. I
> swear that when when I moved into this house there were absolutely no ground
> rods installed. I just inspected our power pole that supplies our power. I
> could see no wires going in to the ground. So I have no idea where our
> "green wire" came from.
>
> But I have have installed two 8 foot ground rods to ground my antennas and
> they are bonded to the AC entry panel. But what's up with this? I bet my
> neighbors have no ground rods installed either.
>
> Knut - AB2TC
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/OT-electrical-safety-tp7629429.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned by E.F.A. Project and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>
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>

Clay Autery

Re: OT; electrical safety

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

That description appears to contain several NEC violations...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 4/17/2017 4:40 PM, Mark via Elecraft wrote:
> Re: I could see no wires going in to the ground.
>
> They really hide them these days. I watched my house being built and noticed that just below the service box, they passed the ground wire from the inside of the wall to the outside, and then down to the ground rod. Since the wall was then covered with stucco, and the ground rod was covered with a concrete walkway, it is all now invisible.
>
> Mark,
> KE6BB
> null

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Richard Fjeld-2

Re: OT; electrical safety

In reply to this post by ab2tc

Maybe this applies.
We have buried electrical service, but I don't think it matters. I have
been told the NEC now calls for four conductor service to include a
ground wire from the transformer.

I depend on a ground tree. I like the perimeter wire Don, w3fpr describes.

Dick, n0ce

On 4/17/2017 4:00 PM, ab2tc wrote: