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OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

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alsopb

OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

You often see postings here advocating abandoning XP in favor of newer
OS's. Yeah sounds great, but the devil is in the details.

I just finished a port to a faster refurbed multicore WIN7 machine.

The task involved:
1)50 programs and data
2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
3) eight USB ports of stuff
4) five RS232 ports of stuff
5) one lpt port
6) Networking with XP computers
7) Internet

I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of what I had working under
XP. It took an estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess of $500.
Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge end of OS stuff (and maybe in the
majority of ham users in that regard).

The most difficult parts were:
1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown steps in several pull down
boxes to do what a single click in XP used to do)

I still have one unresolved issue with the motherboard sound. It simply
won't output anything via line out. I'm almost convinced that the sound
out hardware is bad. It's quite possible on the refurbed machine that
the previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7 seems a bit flaky in
sound card stuff.

It isn't a trivial process unless you're just interested in E-mail,
Internet browsing and a few spreadsheet programs.

Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I can't imagine doing this for
a newly released OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.

73 de Brian/K3KO

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Rick Tavan N6XI

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

Your experience is exactly why I avoid changing OSs as long as possible.
When I do, I take it as an opportunity to drop applications and features
that I haven't been using - no need to port what you won't use.
Nonetheless, it's always odious. However, I must say that converting to Win
7 was a really good move for me. It boots faster and runs much more
reliably than XP on my setup. Now I'm trying to avoid Win 8 and expect I'll
skip it entirely. Totally new OSs from Microsoft tend to be flaky until
their second incarnation.

73,

/Rick N6XI

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 6:39 AM, brian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You often see postings here advocating abandoning XP in favor of newer
> OS's. Yeah sounds great, but the devil is in the details.
>
> I just finished a port to a faster refurbed multicore WIN7 machine.
>
> The task involved:
> 1)50 programs and data
> 2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
> 3) eight USB ports of stuff
> 4) five RS232 ports of stuff
> 5) one lpt port
> 6) Networking with XP computers
> 7) Internet
>
> I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of what I had working under
> XP. It took an estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess of $500.
> Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge end of OS stuff (and maybe in the
> majority of ham users in that regard).
>
> The most difficult parts were:
> 1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
> 2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
> 3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown steps in several pull down
> boxes to do what a single click in XP used to do)
>
> I still have one unresolved issue with the motherboard sound. It simply
> won't output anything via line out. I'm almost convinced that the sound
> out hardware is bad. It's quite possible on the refurbed machine that
> the previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7 seems a bit flaky in sound
> card stuff.
>
> It isn't a trivial process unless you're just interested in E-mail,
> Internet browsing and a few spreadsheet programs.
>
> Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I can't imagine doing this for a
> newly released OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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--
Rick Tavan N6XI
Truckee, CA
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Matt Zilmer-3

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

In reply to this post by alsopb

If your Win7 OS is an OEM version, it will have drivers for the
machine it was intended for already included. OEM versions will
likely not have drivers for your machine (if different from the OEM's
target). System Builder OS versions come with a bunch of commonplace
drivers, but nothing specific to any machine.

For drivers, it's best to to visit the computer OEM's support website
and download what you need. You can find out what you have on the
mobo by running Device Manager and scrolling through the device tree,
making a list.

I've had to do this three times for Win7 - once for a Samsung laptop
using System Builder, and twice for Dell desktops that were slightly
different from each other, each using an OEM version of Win7. It's
not too big of a chore, and being thorough lets you build a platform
that doesn't have any missing or improperly-configured devices (um,
well in theory at least).

Or maybe everyone already knows all this. :)

If you have ancient software that uses the Win16 model, you can also
install Virtual XP to run these apps. Microsoft doesn't support XP
any more, but you can still download the VM and the XP CD image files
and install them. The VM method allows running two OSs on one
platform at the same time. The same method may be used to run Ubuntu
Linux and other OSs in a similar way.

73,
matt
W6NIA

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:39:25 +0000, you wrote:

>You often see postings here advocating abandoning XP in favor of newer
>OS's. Yeah sounds great, but the devil is in the details.
>
>I just finished a port to a faster refurbed multicore WIN7 machine.
>
>The task involved:
>1)50 programs and data
>2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
>3) eight USB ports of stuff
>4) five RS232 ports of stuff
>5) one lpt port
>6) Networking with XP computers
>7) Internet
>
>I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of what I had working under
>XP. It took an estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess of $500.
>Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge end of OS stuff (and maybe in the
>majority of ham users in that regard).
>
>The most difficult parts were:
>1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
>2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
>3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown steps in several pull down
>boxes to do what a single click in XP used to do)
>
>I still have one unresolved issue with the motherboard sound. It simply
>won't output anything via line out. I'm almost convinced that the sound
>out hardware is bad. It's quite possible on the refurbed machine that
>the previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7 seems a bit flaky in
>sound card stuff.
>
>It isn't a trivial process unless you're just interested in E-mail,
>Internet browsing and a few spreadsheet programs.
>
>Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I can't imagine doing this for
>a newly released OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.
>
>73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>Message delivered to [hidden email]

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will
spend the first four sharpening the axe." -A. Lincoln
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

In reply to this post by Rick Tavan N6XI

> Totally new OSs from Microsoft tend to be flaky until their second
> incarnation.

Windows 8 or 8.1 is hardly a totally new OS - it is primarily a touch
interface layered over Windows 7. If one is not using the "tablet" or
Windows Phone interface on a touch enabled device, switching to the
traditional desktop provides nearly the same interface as Windows 7.
Coupled with some third party add-ons (like Classic Shell) the user
can achieve nearly the same interface as Vista or Windows XP with the
added reliability of Windows 8 under the hood.

I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 systems with Classic Shell and
I would not bother with Windows 7 on a new system - nor would I even
consider upgrading hardware that will not support Windows 8 given the
sub-$500 price point of quality new i5 based systems.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-11-19 10:39 AM, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote:

> Your experience is exactly why I avoid changing OSs as long as possible.
> When I do, I take it as an opportunity to drop applications and features
> that I haven't been using - no need to port what you won't use.
> Nonetheless, it's always odious. However, I must say that converting to Win
> 7 was a really good move for me. It boots faster and runs much more
> reliably than XP on my setup. Now I'm trying to avoid Win 8 and expect I'll
> skip it entirely. Totally new OSs from Microsoft tend to be flaky until
> their second incarnation.
>
> 73,
>
> /Rick N6XI
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 6:39 AM, brian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You often see postings here advocating abandoning XP in favor of newer
>> OS's. Yeah sounds great, but the devil is in the details.
>>
>> I just finished a port to a faster refurbed multicore WIN7 machine.
>>
>> The task involved:
>> 1)50 programs and data
>> 2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
>> 3) eight USB ports of stuff
>> 4) five RS232 ports of stuff
>> 5) one lpt port
>> 6) Networking with XP computers
>> 7) Internet
>>
>> I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of what I had working under
>> XP. It took an estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess of $500.
>> Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge end of OS stuff (and maybe in the
>> majority of ham users in that regard).
>>
>> The most difficult parts were:
>> 1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
>> 2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
>> 3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown steps in several pull down
>> boxes to do what a single click in XP used to do)
>>
>> I still have one unresolved issue with the motherboard sound. It simply
>> won't output anything via line out. I'm almost convinced that the sound
>> out hardware is bad. It's quite possible on the refurbed machine that
>> the previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7 seems a bit flaky in sound
>> card stuff.
>>
>> It isn't a trivial process unless you're just interested in E-mail,
>> Internet browsing and a few spreadsheet programs.
>>
>> Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I can't imagine doing this for a
>> newly released OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
>

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W1KSZ

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

In reply to this post by alsopb

I often wonder why folks will abandon a perfectly good working system
just to
have the "latest and greatest". Just look at all the pain you go
through and then
ask yourself what the benefits are.

As for me, I picked up a Shuttle machine with WIN8.1 and 16 GB of RAM.
It sits
on the test bench awaiting the day my old XP Station machine finally
dies. Not
until then will I embark on the self-torture of updating.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

On 11/19/2014 7:39 AM, brian wrote:

> You often see postings here advocating abandoning XP in favor of newer
> OS's. Yeah sounds great, but the devil is in the details.
>
> I just finished a port to a faster refurbed multicore WIN7 machine.
>
> The task involved:
> 1)50 programs and data
> 2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
> 3) eight USB ports of stuff
> 4) five RS232 ports of stuff
> 5) one lpt port
> 6) Networking with XP computers
> 7) Internet
>
> I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of what I had working under
> XP. It took an estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess of
> $500. Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge end of OS stuff (and maybe
> in the majority of ham users in that regard).
>
> The most difficult parts were:
> 1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
> 2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
> 3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown steps in several pull
> down boxes to do what a single click in XP used to do)
>
> I still have one unresolved issue with the motherboard sound. It
> simply won't output anything via line out. I'm almost convinced that
> the sound out hardware is bad. It's quite possible on the refurbed
> machine that the previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7 seems a
> bit flaky in sound card stuff.
>
> It isn't a trivial process unless you're just interested in E-mail,
> Internet browsing and a few spreadsheet programs.
>
> Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I can't imagine doing this
> for a newly released OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

Win 7 is more stable that Win XP.

And now Microsoft no longer supports XP, perhaps a
more significant issue.

I casually support a business that must us
Wordperfect 5.1, and they must use XP for that
reason. But it's becoming harder and harder to
keep that in play.

73, Phil W7OX

On 11/19/14 8:33 AM, Richard Solomon wrote:

> I often wonder why folks will abandon a
> perfectly good working system just to
> have the "latest and greatest". Just look at
> all the pain you go through and then
> ask yourself what the benefits are.
>
> As for me, I picked up a Shuttle machine with
> WIN8.1 and 16 GB of RAM. It sits
> on the test bench awaiting the day my old XP
> Station machine finally dies. Not
> until then will I embark on the self-torture of
> updating.
>
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>
>
> On 11/19/2014 7:39 AM, brian wrote:
>> You often see postings here advocating
>> abandoning XP in favor of newer OS's. Yeah
>> sounds great, but the devil is in the details.
>>
>> I just finished a port to a faster refurbed
>> multicore WIN7 machine.
>>
>> The task involved:
>> 1)50 programs and data
>> 2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
>> 3) eight USB ports of stuff
>> 4) five RS232 ports of stuff
>> 5) one lpt port
>> 6) Networking with XP computers
>> 7) Internet
>>
>> I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of
>> what I had working under XP. It took an
>> estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess
>> of $500. Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge
>> end of OS stuff (and maybe in the majority of
>> ham users in that regard).
>>
>> The most difficult parts were:
>> 1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
>> 2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
>> 3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown
>> steps in several pull down boxes to do what a
>> single click in XP used to do)
>>
>> I still have one unresolved issue with the
>> motherboard sound. It simply won't output
>> anything via line out. I'm almost convinced
>> that the sound out hardware is bad. It's
>> quite possible on the refurbed machine that the
>> previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7
>> seems a bit flaky in sound card stuff.
>>
>> It isn't a trivial process unless you're just
>> interested in E-mail, Internet browsing and a
>> few spreadsheet programs.
>>
>> Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I
>> can't imagine doing this for a newly released
>> OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO

Jim Brown-10

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On Wed,11/19/2014 8:10 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 systems with Classic Shell and
> I would not bother with Windows 7 on a new system - nor would I even
> consider upgrading hardware that will not support Windows 8 given the
> sub-$500 price point of quality new i5 based systems.

I've been using T4x Thinkpads running XP for years, and they have done
everything I needed, both in the shack and for some very demanding
engineering applications. The newest of them, a dual core T61 that's
about six years old, is very happily running N1MM+. To make it work
reliably, I give it real hardware serial ports, a decent USB sound card,
and use WinKey to send CW. One serial port comes from a docking station,
two more from a PCMCIA card.

This summer, with XP support ended, I bought a Win7 machine for my
desktop that does engineering work and email, and a Win 8.1 for the XYL
who does only email and A/V playback. I found the "mind of its own" of
Win 8.1 to be maddening, but I very much like Win 7 once I found and
read an excellent third party manual.

I have a hard and fast rule to NEVER upgrade a machine to a new OS, but
rather to buy a new machine with the OS I want installed. Because power
is unreliable where I live, I use laptops almost exclusively. I've found
that it is always a good move to buy the docking station -- for older
machines, it comes with at least one real serial port, several good USB
ports, and a VGA port. Bought on EBay, they're pretty inexpensive.

73, Jim K9YC
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Jim Wiley

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

Jim -

Would you be so kind as to enlighten the rest of us as to the title and
author of that Win 7 manual?

Thanks

- Jim, KL7CC

On 11/19/2014 8:17 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

<snip>

I very much like Win 7 once I found and read an excellent third party
manual.

<snip>

73, Jim K9YC

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Jim Brown-10

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

On Wed,11/19/2014 9:32 AM, Jim Wiley wrote:
> Would you be so kind as to enlighten the rest of us as to the title
> and author of that Win 7 manual?

It's "The Missing Manual" by David Pogue. I also bought his book for
8.1, but haven't read it yet -- I had already struggled through setting
up my XYL's machine before I found that book. :)

73, Jim K9YC
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Classic Shell is great with Win 8.

Thankfully Windows 10 is looking more like Win 7 and so far it's working fine on my bête test machine.

Phil -- Sent from my iPhone 5S

> On Nov 19, 2014, at 09:17, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed,11/19/2014 8:10 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 systems with Classic Shell and
>> I would not bother with Windows 7 on a new system - nor would I even
>> consider upgrading hardware that will not support Windows 8 given the
>> sub-$500 price point of quality new i5 based systems.
>
> I've been using T4x Thinkpads running XP for years, and they have done everything I needed, both in the shack and for some very demanding engineering applications. The newest of them, a dual core T61 that's about six years old, is very happily running N1MM+. To make it work reliably, I give it real hardware serial ports, a decent USB sound card, and use WinKey to send CW. One serial port comes from a docking station, two more from a PCMCIA card.
>
> This summer, with XP support ended, I bought a Win7 machine for my desktop that does engineering work and email, and a Win 8.1 for the XYL who does only email and A/V playback. I found the "mind of its own" of Win 8.1 to be maddening, but I very much like Win 7 once I found and read an excellent third party manual.
>
> I have a hard and fast rule to NEVER upgrade a machine to a new OS, but rather to buy a new machine with the OS I want installed. Because power is unreliable where I live, I use laptops almost exclusively. I've found that it is always a good move to buy the docking station -- for older machines, it comes with at least one real serial port, several good USB ports, and a VGA port. Bought on EBay, they're pretty inexpensive.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

In reply to this post by W1KSZ

> I often wonder why folks will abandon a perfectly good working
> system just to have the "latest and greatest". Just look at all the
> pain you go through and then ask yourself what the benefits are.

As I wrote on another list just a day or two ago, there are many
reasons to upgrade both hardware and operating systems -particularly
when one is using Windows XP with hardware commonly available when
XP was the newest and greatest. Current hardware - particularly
the mid-speed Intel i5 processor and its AMD equivalents are much
faster - typically eight processor units (four hyperthreading cores)
- and the support chipsets are capable of much higher data through-
put (disk access rates) that there is simply no comparison when one
runs multiple programs or sets of programs. For example, most of
the logging (particularly contest logging) environments severely
stress a single or dual core Pentium processor that was the norm
before the introduction of Windows Vista. Those support chip sets
do not contain the Windows High Performance Event Timer [HPET] used
by 2Tone and EXTFSK 2 for bit bang FSK generation or by some loggers
for CW generation. The dual core Pentium processor is simply maxed
out when doing CW or FSK, logging, running Cluster, etc. not to
mention trying to handle DSP necessary to run an SDR Console for
sound card based Panadapter (or CW Skimmer), etc.

Both operating systems and PC hardware have advanced light years
in the nearly 13 years since Windows XP first appeared in preview
mode and even in the eight years since Windows Vista. Those old
platforms are as much off the developers' RADAR as 16 bit Windows 3.1,
95, and 98 ... reactionary attempts to keep those platforms going
not withstanding.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-11-19 11:33 AM, Richard Solomon wrote:

> I often wonder why folks will abandon a perfectly good working system
> just to
> have the "latest and greatest". Just look at all the pain you go
> through and then
> ask yourself what the benefits are.
>
> As for me, I picked up a Shuttle machine with WIN8.1 and 16 GB of RAM.
> It sits
> on the test bench awaiting the day my old XP Station machine finally
> dies. Not
> until then will I embark on the self-torture of updating.
>
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>
>
> On 11/19/2014 7:39 AM, brian wrote:
>> You often see postings here advocating abandoning XP in favor of newer
>> OS's. Yeah sounds great, but the devil is in the details.
>>
>> I just finished a port to a faster refurbed multicore WIN7 machine.
>>
>> The task involved:
>> 1)50 programs and data
>> 2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
>> 3) eight USB ports of stuff
>> 4) five RS232 ports of stuff
>> 5) one lpt port
>> 6) Networking with XP computers
>> 7) Internet
>>
>> I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of what I had working under
>> XP. It took an estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess of
>> $500. Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge end of OS stuff (and maybe
>> in the majority of ham users in that regard).
>>
>> The most difficult parts were:
>> 1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
>> 2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
>> 3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown steps in several pull
>> down boxes to do what a single click in XP used to do)
>>
>> I still have one unresolved issue with the motherboard sound. It
>> simply won't output anything via line out. I'm almost convinced that
>> the sound out hardware is bad. It's quite possible on the refurbed
>> machine that the previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7 seems a
>> bit flaky in sound card stuff.
>>
>> It isn't a trivial process unless you're just interested in E-mail,
>> Internet browsing and a few spreadsheet programs.
>>
>> Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I can't imagine doing this
>> for a newly released OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
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alsopb

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

But if you're not maxed out?

I personally think I haven't gained much in the new machine.

One reason I can think of is if virus scanners like AVG stop supporting XP.
Another obvious thing plug in card hardware failure and no substitute is
available.
Some printers no longer have drivers for XP.

But what do I know, I drive a 14 year old pickup truck.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 11/19/2014 19:28 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> I often wonder why folks will abandon a perfectly good working
>> system just to have the "latest and greatest". Just look at all the
>> pain you go through and then ask yourself what the benefits are.
>
> As I wrote on another list just a day or two ago, there are many
> reasons to upgrade both hardware and operating systems -particularly
> when one is using Windows XP with hardware commonly available when
> XP was the newest and greatest. Current hardware - particularly
> the mid-speed Intel i5 processor and its AMD equivalents are much
> faster - typically eight processor units (four hyperthreading cores)
> - and the support chipsets are capable of much higher data through-
> put (disk access rates) that there is simply no comparison when one
> runs multiple programs or sets of programs. For example, most of
> the logging (particularly contest logging) environments severely
> stress a single or dual core Pentium processor that was the norm
> before the introduction of Windows Vista. Those support chip sets
> do not contain the Windows High Performance Event Timer [HPET] used
> by 2Tone and EXTFSK 2 for bit bang FSK generation or by some loggers
> for CW generation. The dual core Pentium processor is simply maxed
> out when doing CW or FSK, logging, running Cluster, etc. not to
> mention trying to handle DSP necessary to run an SDR Console for
> sound card based Panadapter (or CW Skimmer), etc.
>
> Both operating systems and PC hardware have advanced light years
> in the nearly 13 years since Windows XP first appeared in preview
> mode and even in the eight years since Windows Vista. Those old
> platforms are as much off the developers' RADAR as 16 bit Windows 3.1,
> 95, and 98 ... reactionary attempts to keep those platforms going
> not withstanding.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2014-11-19 11:33 AM, Richard Solomon wrote:
>> I often wonder why folks will abandon a perfectly good working system
>> just to
>> have the "latest and greatest". Just look at all the pain you go
>> through and then
>> ask yourself what the benefits are.
>>
>> As for me, I picked up a Shuttle machine with WIN8.1 and 16 GB of RAM.
>> It sits
>> on the test bench awaiting the day my old XP Station machine finally
>> dies. Not
>> until then will I embark on the self-torture of updating.
>>
>> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>>
>>
>> On 11/19/2014 7:39 AM, brian wrote:
>>> You often see postings here advocating abandoning XP in favor of newer
>>> OS's. Yeah sounds great, but the devil is in the details.
>>>
>>> I just finished a port to a faster refurbed multicore WIN7 machine.
>>>
>>> The task involved:
>>> 1)50 programs and data
>>> 2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
>>> 3) eight USB ports of stuff
>>> 4) five RS232 ports of stuff
>>> 5) one lpt port
>>> 6) Networking with XP computers
>>> 7) Internet
>>>
>>> I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of what I had working under
>>> XP. It took an estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess of
>>> $500. Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge end of OS stuff (and maybe
>>> in the majority of ham users in that regard).
>>>
>>> The most difficult parts were:
>>> 1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
>>> 2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
>>> 3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown steps in several pull
>>> down boxes to do what a single click in XP used to do)
>>>
>>> I still have one unresolved issue with the motherboard sound. It
>>> simply won't output anything via line out. I'm almost convinced that
>>> the sound out hardware is bad. It's quite possible on the refurbed
>>> machine that the previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7 seems a
>>> bit flaky in sound card stuff.
>>>
>>> It isn't a trivial process unless you're just interested in E-mail,
>>> Internet browsing and a few spreadsheet programs.
>>>
>>> Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I can't imagine doing this
>>> for a newly released OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.
>>>
>>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4213/8595 - Release Date: 11/19/14
>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

On 2014-11-19 3:24 PM, brian wrote:
> But if you're not maxed out?

Unless one is only running a logging program to log - and not
doing Cluster in the heat of a major contest, running an SDR
console for panadapter, using the computer for digital send and
receive, using the computer to generate CW, etc. and with no
e-mail, anti-virus, web browser, etc. running in the background
- most users are closer to being maxed out than they know.

Many of the commonly heard software support issues can be traced
to resource exhaustion in the operating system ... due primarily
to all the process swapping that occurs in trying to run the many
simultaneous tasks users unknowingly pile up. Windows generally
does a good job of hiding the problems ... right up to the point
the system totally crashes.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-11-19 3:24 PM, brian wrote:

> But if you're not maxed out?
>
> I personally think I haven't gained much in the new machine.
>
> One reason I can think of is if virus scanners like AVG stop supporting XP.
> Another obvious thing plug in card hardware failure and no substitute is
> available.
> Some printers no longer have drivers for XP.
>
> But what do I know, I drive a 14 year old pickup truck.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> On 11/19/2014 19:28 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>>> I often wonder why folks will abandon a perfectly good working
>>> system just to have the "latest and greatest". Just look at all the
>>> pain you go through and then ask yourself what the benefits are.
>>
>> As I wrote on another list just a day or two ago, there are many
>> reasons to upgrade both hardware and operating systems -particularly
>> when one is using Windows XP with hardware commonly available when
>> XP was the newest and greatest. Current hardware - particularly
>> the mid-speed Intel i5 processor and its AMD equivalents are much
>> faster - typically eight processor units (four hyperthreading cores)
>> - and the support chipsets are capable of much higher data through-
>> put (disk access rates) that there is simply no comparison when one
>> runs multiple programs or sets of programs. For example, most of
>> the logging (particularly contest logging) environments severely
>> stress a single or dual core Pentium processor that was the norm
>> before the introduction of Windows Vista. Those support chip sets
>> do not contain the Windows High Performance Event Timer [HPET] used
>> by 2Tone and EXTFSK 2 for bit bang FSK generation or by some loggers
>> for CW generation. The dual core Pentium processor is simply maxed
>> out when doing CW or FSK, logging, running Cluster, etc. not to
>> mention trying to handle DSP necessary to run an SDR Console for
>> sound card based Panadapter (or CW Skimmer), etc.
>>
>> Both operating systems and PC hardware have advanced light years
>> in the nearly 13 years since Windows XP first appeared in preview
>> mode and even in the eight years since Windows Vista. Those old
>> platforms are as much off the developers' RADAR as 16 bit Windows 3.1,
>> 95, and 98 ... reactionary attempts to keep those platforms going
>> not withstanding.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 2014-11-19 11:33 AM, Richard Solomon wrote:
>>> I often wonder why folks will abandon a perfectly good working system
>>> just to
>>> have the "latest and greatest". Just look at all the pain you go
>>> through and then
>>> ask yourself what the benefits are.
>>>
>>> As for me, I picked up a Shuttle machine with WIN8.1 and 16 GB of RAM.
>>> It sits
>>> on the test bench awaiting the day my old XP Station machine finally
>>> dies. Not
>>> until then will I embark on the self-torture of updating.
>>>
>>> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2014 7:39 AM, brian wrote:
>>>> You often see postings here advocating abandoning XP in favor of newer
>>>> OS's. Yeah sounds great, but the devil is in the details.
>>>>
>>>> I just finished a port to a faster refurbed multicore WIN7 machine.
>>>>
>>>> The task involved:
>>>> 1)50 programs and data
>>>> 2) 3 sound cards (4 if you include the video)
>>>> 3) eight USB ports of stuff
>>>> 4) five RS232 ports of stuff
>>>> 5) one lpt port
>>>> 6) Networking with XP computers
>>>> 7) Internet
>>>>
>>>> I started October 23. Finally I have 98% of what I had working under
>>>> XP. It took an estimated 80 hours of work and cost in excess of
>>>> $500. Admittedly, I'm on the low knowledge end of OS stuff (and maybe
>>>> in the majority of ham users in that regard).
>>>>
>>>> The most difficult parts were:
>>>> 1) Device drivers. Trial and error process.
>>>> 2) Sound card problems. It's a zoo.
>>>> 3) Networking (it takes 15 at first unknown steps in several pull
>>>> down boxes to do what a single click in XP used to do)
>>>>
>>>> I still have one unresolved issue with the motherboard sound. It
>>>> simply won't output anything via line out. I'm almost convinced that
>>>> the sound out hardware is bad. It's quite possible on the refurbed
>>>> machine that the previous owner clobbered the hardware. WIN7 seems a
>>>> bit flaky in sound card stuff.
>>>>
>>>> It isn't a trivial process unless you're just interested in E-mail,
>>>> Internet browsing and a few spreadsheet programs.
>>>>
>>>> Thank goodness WIN7 isn't bleeding edge. I can't imagine doing this
>>>> for a newly released OS. GOOGLE is your friend in the process.
>>>>
>>>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4213/8595 - Release Date: 11/19/14
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: OT- experience porting XP->WIN7

Administrator

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

Folks - we're exceeding the OT posting limit for this thread. Let's let it rest
for now.
Thread closed.
73,
Eric
List Manager etc.
elecraft.com

On 11/19/2014 10:46 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

> Classic Shell is great with Win 8.
>
> Thankfully Windows 10 is looking more like Win 7 and so far it's working fine on my bête test machine.
>
> Phil -- Sent from my iPhone 5S
>
>> On Nov 19, 2014, at 09:17, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed,11/19/2014 8:10 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>> I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 systems with Classic Shell and
>>> I would not bother with Windows 7 on a new system - nor would I even
>>> consider upgrading hardware that will not support Windows 8 given the
>>> sub-$500 price point of quality new i5 based systems.
>> I've been using T4x Thinkpads running XP for years, and they have done everything I needed, both in the shack and for some very demanding engineering applications. The newest of them, a dual core T61 that's about six years old, is very happily running N1MM+. To make it work reliably, I give it real hardware serial ports, a decent USB sound card, and use WinKey to send CW. One serial port comes from a docking station, two more from a PCMCIA card.
>>
>> This summer, with XP support ended, I bought a Win7 machine for my desktop that does engineering work and email, and a Win 8.1 for the XYL who does only email and A/V playback. I found the "mind of its own" of Win 8.1 to be maddening, but I very much like Win 7 once I found and read an excellent third party manual.
>>
>> I have a hard and fast rule to NEVER upgrade a machine to a new OS, but rather to buy a new machine with the OS I want installed. Because power is unreliable where I live, I use laptops almost exclusively. I've found that it is always a good move to buy the docking station -- for older machines, it comes with at least one real serial port, several good USB ports, and a VGA port. Bought on EBay, they're pretty inexpensive.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
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