Elecraft

(OT) - portable radial idea?

Classic

List

Threaded

6 messages Options

stan levandowski

(OT) - portable radial idea?

I found the plans (June 2010 Elecraft Reflector) to build a 40/30/20
meter "linear loaded" portable antenna for my KX1 (using a crappie rod,
300 ohm twinlead for the radiator, a BL2 balun, and ribbon cable radials
cut to 1/4 wavelength for each of the bands (16, 25 and 33 feet).

My question is how terrible would it be to use a piece of that thin
computer ribbon cable cut to the three lengths but NOT separated? This
would make it easier to deploy and roll back up.

Has anyone ever tried using unseparated ribbon cable counterpoises? The
materials are on order and I'm sort of anxious to know.

Obviously, this is a compromise antenna and I'm shooting to design a
package for maximum installation speed vs. maximum efficiency.

Thanks, Stan WB2LQF
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm

Re: (OT) - portable radial idea?

Stan,

It can be made to work, but will be a real "bear" to adjust to resonance
unless you separate the ends.

If you are feeding with 300 ohm twinlead, why not make a 66 foot long
center fed dipole out of it.

Alternately if this is for portable work, us no feedline at all - just a
BNC to binding post adapter at the KX3. A 58 foot wire connected to the
red post and supported by your crappie pole. Add a 16 foot "Radial" to
the black terminal and string it out on the ground. The KX3 ATU will
handle it on 40 through 10 meters.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/10/2017 7:14 PM, stan levandowski wrote:

> I found the plans (June 2010 Elecraft Reflector) to build a 40/30/20
> meter "linear loaded" portable antenna for my KX1 (using a crappie rod,
> 300 ohm twinlead for the radiator, a BL2 balun, and ribbon cable radials
> cut to 1/4 wavelength for each of the bands (16, 25 and 33 feet).
>
> My question is how terrible would it be to use a piece of that thin
> computer ribbon cable cut to the three lengths but NOT separated? This
> would make it easier to deploy and roll back up.
>
>
> Has anyone ever tried using unseparated ribbon cable counterpoises? The
> materials are on order and I'm sort of anxious to know.
>
>
> Obviously, this is a compromise antenna and I'm shooting to design a
> package for maximum installation speed vs. maximum efficiency.
>
>
> Thanks, Stan WB2LQF
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm

Re: (OT) - portable radial idea?

In reply to this post by stan levandowski

Stan,

It can be made to work, but will be a real "bear" to adjust to resonance
unless you separate the ends.

If you are feeding with 300 ohm twinlead, why not make a 66 foot long
center fed dipole out of it.

Alternately if this is for portable work, us no feedline at all - just a
BNC to binding post adapter at the KX1. Use 2 lengths of wire as is
shown on page 10 of the KXAT1 manual.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/10/2017 7:14 PM, stan levandowski wrote:

stan levandowski

Re: (OT) - portable radial idea?

Hi Don and thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I already have a 67 foot
doublet fed with window line as well as simple wires and counterpoises
in line with page 10 of the KXAT1 manual. They work just fine. No
argument there.

But I stumbled upon this "linear loaded" vertical antenna and thought I
might try it. It's is a 20 foot piece of 300 ohm TV line with the
conductors twisted and soldered together at the top and taped to a
twenty foot crappie pole. At the bottom, for working 20 and 30 meters,
both of the conductors are connected to the red BNC terminal on the KX1
making the the radiator just a "fat" 20 foot wire. For working 40
meters the bottom conductors are separated and one goes to the red BNC
terminal and the other just hangs loose making it a 40 foot antenna.
The write-up I found states, "On 40m the folded wire creates a linear
loading effect due to the capacitive coupling between the two wires
(note that currents are not equal and opposite so there is no
cancellation of signal as you might initially think). This added
capacitance allows the wire to be resonated on 40m by the internal tuner
in the K1, KX1 or also by the Elecraft T1." The fellow who offered this
antenna idea said that he had been using it successfully for quite
awhile.

Adding the BL2 is my idea because it will be part of the solution for
making the bottom connections. My intent is to come up with a "decent"
portable antenna that I can erect anywhere in just one minute. I want
to come up with some creative way to make all the pieces work together
effortlessly, rapidly and reliably, including dealing with the crappie
pole. My dream is to drop the crappie pole into a homemade holder on
my camp chair, push up the pole with the antenna following, walk the
roll of ribbon cable out in a straight line, go back to the chair, sit
down, turn on the KX1 and start operating! It's my springtime
project....

I ordered a 100 foot role of ribbon cable so I can do a little
experimenting with opening up the ends.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 09:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Stan,
>
> It can be made to work, but will be a real "bear" to adjust to
> resonance unless you separate the ends.
>
> If you are feeding with 300 ohm twinlead, why not make a 66 foot long
> center fed dipole out of it.
>
> Alternately if this is for portable work, us no feedline at all - just
> a BNC to binding post adapter at the KX1. Use 2 lengths of wire as is
> shown on page 10 of the KXAT1 manual.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/10/2017 7:14 PM, stan levandowski wrote:
>> I found the plans (June 2010 Elecraft Reflector) to build a 40/30/20
>> meter "linear loaded" portable antenna for my KX1 (using a crappie
>> rod,
>> 300 ohm twinlead for the radiator, a BL2 balun, and ribbon cable
>> radials
>> cut to 1/4 wavelength for each of the bands (16, 25 and 33 feet).
>>
>> My question is how terrible would it be to use a piece of that thin
>> computer ribbon cable cut to the three lengths but NOT separated?
>> This
>> would make it easier to deploy and roll back up.
>>
>> Has anyone ever tried using unseparated ribbon cable counterpoises?
>> The
>> materials are on order and I'm sort of anxious to know.
>

Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

Re: (OT) - portable radial idea?

I have a Chinese version of a Budipole type vertical that uses exactly that... ribbon cable cut to various resonate lengths for the elevated radials. Four as I remember. Works very well and quick to deploy and stow.

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC
Staunton, Illinois

Owner – Operator
Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ
Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

email: [hidden email]

> On Mar 10, 2017, at 9:24 PM, stan levandowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Don and thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I already have a 67 foot doublet fed with window line as well as simple wires and counterpoises in line with page 10 of the KXAT1 manual. They work just fine. No argument there.
>
>
> But I stumbled upon this "linear loaded" vertical antenna and thought I might try it. It's is a 20 foot piece of 300 ohm TV line with the conductors twisted and soldered together at the top and taped to a twenty foot crappie pole. At the bottom, for working 20 and 30 meters, both of the conductors are connected to the red BNC terminal on the KX1 making the the radiator just a "fat" 20 foot wire. For working 40 meters the bottom conductors are separated and one goes to the red BNC terminal and the other just hangs loose making it a 40 foot antenna. The write-up I found states, "On 40m the folded wire creates a linear loading effect due to the capacitive coupling between the two wires (note that currents are not equal and opposite so there is no cancellation of signal as you might initially think). This added capacitance allows the wire to be resonated on 40m by the internal tuner in the K1, KX1 or also by the Elecraft T1." The fellow who offered this antenna idea said that he had been using it successfully for quite awhile.
>
>
> Adding the BL2 is my idea because it will be part of the solution for making the bottom connections. My intent is to come up with a "decent" portable antenna that I can erect anywhere in just one minute. I want to come up with some creative way to make all the pieces work together effortlessly, rapidly and reliably, including dealing with the crappie pole. My dream is to drop the crappie pole into a homemade holder on my camp chair, push up the pole with the antenna following, walk the roll of ribbon cable out in a straight line, go back to the chair, sit down, turn on the KX1 and start operating! It's my springtime project....
>
>
> I ordered a 100 foot role of ribbon cable so I can do a little experimenting with opening up the ends.
>
>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 09:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>
>> Stan,
>>
>> It can be made to work, but will be a real "bear" to adjust to resonance unless you separate the ends.
>>
>> If you are feeding with 300 ohm twinlead, why Hi Don and thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I already have a 67 foot
> doublet fed with window line as well as simple wires and counterpoises in line with page 10 of the KXAT1 manual. They work just fine. No argument there.
>
>
> But I stumbled upon this "linear loaded" vertical antenna and thought I might try it. It's is a 20 foot piece of 300 ohm TV line with the conductors twisted and soldered together at the top and taped to a twenty foot crappie pole. At the bottom, for working 20 and 30 meters, both of the conductors are connected to the red BNC terminal on the KX1 making the the radiator just a "fat" 20 foot wire. For working 40 meters the bottom conductors are separated and one goes to the red BNC terminal and the other just hangs loose making it a 40 foot antenna. The write-up I found states, "On 40m the folded wire creates a linear loading effect due to the capacitive coupling between the two wires (note that currents are not equal and opposite so there is no cancellation of signal as you might initially think). This added capacitance allows the wire to be resonated on 40m by the internal tuner in the K1, KX1 or also by the Elecraft T1." The fellow who offered this antenna idea said that he had been using it successfully for quite awhile.
>
>
> Adding the BL2 is my idea because it will be part of the solution for making the bottom connections. My intent is to come up with a "decent" portable antenna that I can erect anywhere in just one minute. I want to come up with some creative way to make all the pieces work together effortlessly, rapidly and reliably, including dealing with the crappie pole. My dream is to drop the crappie pole into a homemade holder on my camp chair, push up the pole with the antenna following, walk the roll of ribbon cable out in a straight line, go back to the chair, sit down, turn on the KX1 and start operating! It's my springtime project....
>
>
> I ordered a 100 foot role of ribbon cable so I can do a little experimenting with opening up the ends.
>
>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 09:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>
>> Stan,
>>
>> It can be made to work, but will be a real "bear" to adjust to resonance unless you separate the ends.
>>
>> If you are feeding with 300 ohm twinlead, why not make a 66 foot long center fed dipole out of it.
>>
>> Alternately if this is for portable work, us no feedline at all - just a BNC to binding post adapter at the KX1. Use 2 lengths of wire as is shown on page 10 of the KXAT1 manual.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>> On 3/10/2017 7:14 PM, stan levandowski wrote:
>>> I found the plans (June 2010 Elecraft Reflector) to build a 40/30/20
>>> meter "linear loaded" portable antenna for my KX1 (using a crappie rod,
>>> 300 ohm twinlead for the radiator, a BL2 balun, and ribbon cable radials
>>> cut to 1/4 wavelength for each of the bands (16, 25 and 33 feet).
>>>
>>> My question is how terrible would it be to use a piece of that thin
>>> computer ribbon cable cut to the three lengths but NOT separated? This
>>> would make it easier to deploy and roll back up.
>>>
>>> Has anyone ever tried using unseparated ribbon cable counterpoises? The
>>> materials are on order and I'm sort of anxious to know.
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Michael Babineau-2

Re: (OT) - portable radial idea?

In reply to this post by stan levandowski

Stan :

Unless the “radials” are to be elevated a few feet above the ground there is really nothing to be gained by trying to cut them for resonance on each band.
If they are laid on the ground they will be detuned and the legnth will be all off anyway.

The rule of thumb that I used is to make the radials at least an 1/8 wave for the lowest band, so in this case it would 16 feet long.

I take a 20 foot length of computer ribbon cable (5 or 6 wire) and unzip it for all but the
last 4 feet. Then on the unzipped end I strip and tin each of the wires and then attach them all to a banana plug. Having the last few feet of
cable still zipped makes routing the “radials” away from the rig and off of a picnic table much more convenient. To make storage and re-deployment
simpler I pull the loose ends of the wires parallel and then I attach an IKEA bag clip on the end then I can roll the whole thing up, tie it with a
velcro tie and put it into a zip-top sandwich bag. . It keeps the wires from getting tangled.

Why 5 radials ??? I have found from experience that 5 or 6 is about the limit of my patience for deployment. I have a few sets so if I am not in a rush
I can use more. This is easy to do with a Pomona banana jack to BNC adaptor as both the red and black terminals will each accept two banana plugs.

Cheers

Michael VE3WMB

>From: stan levandowski <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>Subject: [Elecraft] (OT) - portable radial idea?
>Date: March 10, 2017 at 7:14:50 PM GMT-5
>To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>

>I found the plans (June 2010 Elecraft Reflector) to build a 40/30/20 meter "linear loaded" portable antenna for my KX1 (using a crappie rod, 300 ohm twinlead for the radiator, a BL2 balun, and ribbon cable radials cut to 1/4 wavelength for >each of the bands (16, 25 and 33 feet).

>My question is how terrible would it be to use a piece of that thin computer ribbon cable cut to the three lengths but NOT separated? This would make it easier to deploy and roll back up.

>Has anyone ever tried using unseparated ribbon cable counterpoises? The materials are on order and I'm sort of anxious to know.

>Obviously, this is a compromise antenna and I'm shooting to design a package for maximum installation speed vs. maximum efficiency.

>Thanks, Stan WB2LQF
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]