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OT setting your computer to NIST

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Gary Smith-2

OT setting your computer to NIST

I've not been able to get my windows
computer to automatically update for a
long time now and I've tried everything I
could uncover via google & forums.

Since I use the computer for logging and
contesting, having the real time on my
computer is important so I've had to tune
to WWV and manually sync the minutes and
seconds and doing this repeatedly is a PIT
kiester. Even with a new battery, this
computer loses 5-6 seconds a month and I
dislike having to constantly go through
the resetting procedure.

I found the National Institute of
Standards and Technology, a govt. agency,
has a free software that will do this for
you.

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/its.c
fm
or: http://tinyurl.com/4s9agpw

There's a tiny learning curve and for a
server under the file button, I needed to
select the 2nd option and checked the NTP
format option for it to work but it now
updates in maybe 2 seconds and gives you
the option of syncing in real time or not.

Once you have it working, save the config
under the file option and it will remember
your selected option.

I'm assuming we all want our time to be
correct so I'm posting this here and on a
couple of other Ham groups I follow.

Now back to our regularly scheduled
Elecraft postings.

73,

Gary
KA1J
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

Gary,

If you are on a Windows platform, look into Atomic Clock Sync. It can
sync periodically or manually and the user interface is easy.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/26/2015 2:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> I've not been able to get my windows
> computer to automatically update for a
> long time now and I've tried everything I
> could uncover via google & forums.
>
> Since I use the computer for logging and
> contesting, having the real time on my
> computer is important so I've had to tune
> to WWV and manually sync the minutes and
> seconds and doing this repeatedly is a PIT
> kiester. Even with a new battery, this
> computer loses 5-6 seconds a month and I
> dislike having to constantly go through
> the resetting procedure.
>
> I found the National Institute of
> Standards and Technology, a govt. agency,
> has a free software that will do this for
> you.
>
> http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/its.c
> fm
> or: http://tinyurl.com/4s9agpw
>
> There's a tiny learning curve and for a
> server under the file button, I needed to
> select the 2nd option and checked the NTP
> format option for it to work but it now
> updates in maybe 2 seconds and gives you
> the option of syncing in real time or not.
>
> Once you have it working, save the config
> under the file option and it will remember
> your selected option.
>
> I'm assuming we all want our time to be
> correct so I'm posting this here and on a
> couple of other Ham groups I follow.
>
> Now back to our regularly scheduled
> Elecraft postings.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

Went to check that the clock was set for internet updates - it was.

Something useful I saw was the ability to set a second clock which I did. UTC is one of the selections. Put the mouse over the time and both clocks come up in a small window.

W3OU, Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: Gary <[hidden email]>; elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, Jun 26, 2015 2:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT setting your computer to NIST

Gary,

If you are on a Windows platform, look into Atomic Clock Sync. It can

sync periodically or manually and the user interface is easy.

73,
Don
W3FPR

On 6/26/2015 2:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> I've not been able to get my
windows
> computer to automatically update for a
> long time now and I've
tried everything I
> could uncover via google & forums.
>
> Since I use the
computer for logging and
> contesting, having the real time on my
> computer
is important so I've had to tune
> to WWV and manually sync the minutes and
>
seconds and doing this repeatedly is a PIT
> kiester. Even with a new battery,
this
> computer loses 5-6 seconds a month and I
> dislike having to constantly
go through
> the resetting procedure.
>
> I found the National Institute
of
> Standards and Technology, a govt. agency,
> has a free software that will
do this for
> you.
>
> http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/its.c
> fm
>
or: http://tinyurl.com/4s9agpw
>
> There's a tiny learning curve and for a
>
server under the file button, I needed to
> select the 2nd option and checked
the NTP
> format option for it to work but it now
> updates in maybe 2 seconds
and gives you
> the option of syncing in real time or not.
>
> Once you have
it working, save the config
> under the file option and it will remember
>
your selected option.
>
> I'm assuming we all want our time to be
> correct
so I'm posting this here and on a
> couple of other Ham groups I follow.
>
>
Now back to our regularly scheduled
> Elecraft postings.
>
> 73,
>
>
Gary
> KA1J
>
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

I strongly recommend pool.ntp.org, using the native NTP software on your
computer.

A list of public time servers is here:
http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Servers/WebHome

There is a list of public, stratum 1 time servers, but please please do
not use them directly, unless you run your own time server.

73 -- Lynn

On 6/26/2015 11:03 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
> I've not been able to get my windows
> computer to automatically update for a
> long time now and I've tried everything I
> could uncover via google & forums.

--

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

Windows before XP didn't have native NTP support.

In XP, right-click on the clock, then choose "internet time" and enter
2.pool.ntp.org as the server. Make sure the synchronize box is checked.

I'd expect later versions of Windows to be the same, but they probably
aren't.

73 -- Lynn

On 6/26/2015 1:41 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> I strongly recommend pool.ntp.org, using the native NTP software on
> your computer.
>
> A list of public time servers is here:
> http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Servers/WebHome
>
> There is a list of public, stratum 1 time servers, but please please
> do not use them directly, unless you run your own time server.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 6/26/2015 11:03 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>> I've not been able to get my windows
>> computer to automatically update for a
>> long time now and I've tried everything I
>> could uncover via google & forums.
>

--

Win a cruise! Visit http://ColdRocksHotBrooms.com for details!

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Brian Hunt

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

i installed Dimension 4 (http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/) a few
months ago and it has been great. I shutdown my Win7 PC when not in
use. As soon as it comes back up the time is synced to NIST via any
number of internet time servers which it rotates through. The
correction history shows time is kept to within +/- half second. I set
it up to work JT65 modes. YMMV.

Brian, K0DTJ

On 6/26/2015 11:03 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
> I've not been able to get my windows
> computer to automatically update for a
> long time now and I've tried everything I
> could uncover via google & forums.
>
>

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Josh Fiden

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

Most 6m EME guys I know are using Dimension 4. Works great and in my
experience MUCH more accurate than the built-in Windows time sync.

73,
Josh W6XU

On 6/26/2015 2:15 PM, Brian Hunt wrote:
> i installed Dimension 4 (http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/) a few
> months ago and it has been great. I shutdown my Win7 PC when not in
> use. As soon as it comes back up the time is synced to NIST via any
> number of internet time servers which it rotates through. The
> correction history shows time is kept to within +/- half second. I
> set it up to work JT65 modes. YMMV.
>
> Brian, K0DTJ

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Robin Moseley

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

nope most EME stations have moved to
https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm#ntp_nt_stable, installed
as a service.

Robin G1MHU

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Fiden
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 10:22 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT setting your computer to NIST

Most 6m EME guys I know are using Dimension 4. Works great and in my
experience MUCH more accurate than the built-in Windows time sync.

73,
Josh W6XU

.com

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Josh Fiden

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

I see you're right! I was behind the times... hi

Thanks for the updated info.

73,
Josh W6XU

On 6/26/2015 6:54 PM, Robin Moseley wrote:

> nope most EME stations have moved to
> https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm#ntp_nt_stable,
> installed as a service.
>
> Robin G1MHU
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Josh Fiden
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 10:22 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT setting your computer to NIST
>
> Most 6m EME guys I know are using Dimension 4. Works great and in my
> experience MUCH more accurate than the built-in Windows time sync.
>
> 73,
> Josh W6XU
>
> .com

David Woolley (E.L)

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

In reply to this post by Josh Fiden

Whilst Windows is not good for accurate time synchronisation using any
tool, the current versions of w32time, the native Windows NTP support,
can be configured
<https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc773263%28v=ws.10%29.aspx#w2k3tr_times_tools_uhlp>
to be much better than the out of the box configuration. In particular
you must make sure that you specify servers without the special poll
interval flag.

t can be set to behave pretty much like the reference implementation of
version 3 NTP. Windows ports of the reference implementation of version
4 NTP software, that the servers you use are likely to be using, are
available at no charge, and, for example, Meinberg supply a free
installer for it. Whilst another branch of this thread (not yet on the
digest) tends to perpetuate the misunderstanding that this was written
by Meinberg, that is not true. It is actually the open source reference
implementation, as used on many and available for all Linux systems (but
with some build options set for Windows). Meinberg have simply added a
Windows installer.

Properly tuned I'd expect 95 percentile accuracy as about 20ms with
w32time, maybe 10ms with the reference implementation and better than
1ms with Linux.

Out of the box w32time polls at very long intervals (7 days for
standalone installations) and is designed to keep the time accurate to
within the few seconds needed for Kerberos authentication on Windows
networks, but the current software can be tuned for poll rates of
seconds, use multiple servers and interpolate with frequency compensation.

The continued existence of software like Dimenion 4 and Tardis owes more
to marketing than to being better solutions. (Microsoft are not
interested in Windows client systems being used outside of a Windows
network, so don't advertise the full capabilities of w32time.)

Incidentally, the primary author of the NTP protocol specification and
its reference implementation is W3HCF.

--
David Woolley
Owner K2 06123

On 26/06/15 22:22, Josh Fiden wrote:
> Most 6m EME guys I know are using Dimension 4. Works great and in my
> experience MUCH more accurate than the built-in Windows time sync.

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Kevin Cozens-2

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

On 15-06-26 02:03 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

I used to use NIST time servers to sync my computers under both Linux and
Windows. At one point they changed the URL's for the servers so I had to
find the new names. I did a quick google search and found the page with the
list of NIST servers. It can be found at:
http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi

It lists all the servers and tells you which ones you can use and which ones
are busy.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

I used a Raspberry Pi and made a NTP server to hook to my GPSDO

I didn't really need one but I had the GPSDO with the NMEA and PPS output and a spare Raspberry Pi

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Tony Estep

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

I think the main point is that for the last several versions of Windows you
haven't needed to, and probably shouldn't, use a 3rd party program to sync
time. You can set up a regular sync with a few clicks from the home screen.
If your machine's clock needs more frequent sync, one way to set the
interval is described in the instructions found here:

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/89800-internet-time-synchronization-update-interval.html

Tony KT0NY

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I used a Raspberry Pi and made a NTP server to hook to my GPSDO
>
> I didn't really need one but I had the GPSDO with the NMEA and PPS output
> and a spare Raspberry Pi
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Sebastian, W4AS

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

Having an accurate clock if you are using, or plan to use, the WSJT digital modes with Windows, is highly recommended.

The average user shouldn’t be making changes to the registry, and there is no reason why you shouldn’t use a third party utility program to have an accurate clock; even if you aren’t using digital modes.

73 de Sebastian, W4AS

> On Jun 27, 2015, at 3:31 PM, Tony Estep <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think the main point is that for the last several versions of Windows you
> haven't needed to, and probably shouldn't, use a 3rd party program to sync
> time. You can set up a regular sync with a few clicks from the home screen.
> If your machine's clock needs more frequent sync, one way to set the
> interval is described in the instructions found here:
>
> http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/89800-internet-time-synchronization-update-interval.html
>
> Tony KT0NY
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I used a Raspberry Pi and made a NTP server to hook to my GPSDO
>>
>> I didn't really need one but I had the GPSDO with the NMEA and PPS output
>> and a spare Raspberry Pi

Gary Smith-2

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

In reply to this post by Tony Estep

I've gotten several emails where some believe that using the built-in
windows internet time update is my easiest solution. Unfortunately,
it's not; I can not update unless I use a 3rd party program. Here is
the windows error message I get 100% of the time I try to use windows
built-in update facility:

http://doctorgary.net/time.jpg

It will not update on its own nor when I try to force an internet
time correction and this has been a problem for a very long time;
using an outside synchronizing solution is my only remedy. I can't
help but assume others have the same problem & want accurate time on
their computer so I offered the solution I found and there have been
several alternatives suggested. Whichever works accurately is the
solution to getting the right time on the computer.

Back to Field day :D

73,

Gary
KA1J

> I think the main point is that for the last several versions of Windows you
> haven't needed to, and probably shouldn't, use a 3rd party program to sync
> time. You can set up a regular sync with a few clicks from the home screen.
> If your machine's clock needs more frequent sync, one way to set the
> interval is described in the instructions found here:
>
> http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/89800-internet-time-synchronization-update-interval.html
>
> Tony KT0NY
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I used a Raspberry Pi and made a NTP server to hook to my GPSDO
> >
> > I didn't really need one but I had the GPSDO with the NMEA and PPS output
> > and a spare Raspberry Pi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Phil Kane-2

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

On 6/27/2015 3:17 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> Here is
> the windows error message I get 100% of the time I try to use windows
> built-in update facility:
>
> http://doctorgary.net/time.jpg
>
> It will not update on its own nor when I try to force an internet
> time correction and this has been T problem for a very long time;

That's because the server that you selected is not available (any more).
There is a list of available NIST servers at:
http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi

Myself, I use tick.nobs.navy.mil with no problems at all. It's at the
US Naval Observatory and is one of the group used to determine NIST
time. My first engineering job was at the US Naval Research Laboratory
so I have a (misplaced ?) loyalty to NObs ! :)

Happy Hamming.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

I mentioned POOL.NTP.ORG earlier.

I don't care what name you use for the server, sooner or later it will
change, or go away.

The "pool" has a whole bunch of time servers, run by different
organizations. The people who run them can add them to the pool, or
remove them from the pool when they're about to be shut down.

There are a lot of time servers, run by a lot of different people, and
the traffic is spread across them using round-robin DNS so no one server
is overloaded.

Just type "1.pool.ntp.org" where it currently says "time-b.nist.gov" and
you'll have a very robust set of time servers to rely on -- not just one
that may be turned off due to budgetary limitations.

73 -- Lynn

On 6/27/2015 3:17 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> I've gotten several emails where some believe that using the built-in
> windows internet time update is my easiest solution. Unfortunately,
> it's not; I can not update unless I use a 3rd party program. Here is
> the windows error message I get 100% of the time I try to use windows
> built-in update facility:
>
> http://doctorgary.net/time.jpg
>
> It will not update on its own nor when I try to force an internet
> time correction and this has been a problem for a very long time;
> using an outside synchronizing solution is my only remedy. I can't
> help but assume others have the same problem & want accurate time on
> their computer so I offered the solution I found and there have been
> several alternatives suggested. Whichever works accurately is the
> solution to getting the right time on the computer.
>
> Back to Field day :D
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

P.S. this applies to any NTP client on any OS, not just the built-in
Windows time client.

On 6/27/2015 4:02 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
> Just type "1.pool.ntp.org" where it currently says "time-b.nist.gov"
> and you'll have a very robust set of time servers to rely on -- not
> just one that may be turned off due to budgetary limitations.

--

Win a cruise! Visit http://ColdRocksHotBrooms.com for details!

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

> That's because the server that you selected is not available (any
> more). There is a list of available NIST servers at:
> http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi

If you follow the rules and use - time.nist.gov - your request will
be distributed to any available service. "time.nist.gov" is the pool
address.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-06-27 6:31 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 6/27/2015 3:17 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
>> Here is
>> the windows error message I get 100% of the time I try to use windows
>> built-in update facility:
>>
>> http://doctorgary.net/time.jpg
>>
>> It will not update on its own nor when I try to force an internet
>> time correction and this has been T problem for a very long time;
>
> That's because the server that you selected is not available (any more).
> There is a list of available NIST servers at:
> http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi
>
> Myself, I use tick.nobs.navy.mil with no problems at all. It's at the
> US Naval Observatory and is one of the group used to determine NIST
> time. My first engineering job was at the US Naval Research Laboratory
> so I have a (misplaced ?) loyalty to NObs ! :)
>
> Happy Hamming.
>
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
>
>>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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KEN-3

Re: OT setting your computer to NIST

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Any suggestions to handle the delay caused by satellite internet access
(typical 800 ms ping time)?

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