Oscilloscope Requirements?

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TAC
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Oscilloscope Requirements?

TAC
I've decided to spring for a new digital storage oscilloscope and thought I'd solicit some opinions on how much scope I really need for general electronics and ham radio. 2 or 4 channel, 100 or 200 Mhz, memory buffer size, etc? Anyone using the PicoScope? At work we have 500 Mhz, 4 GSa/s Agilent scopes and unfortunately that's a little out of my budget. I was looking at the PicoScope line (http://www.picotech.com/) which look pretty interesting. Looks like there are a number of cheap knock offs out of China. Thnx, -TAC
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Ethan Miller K8GU
It all depends on what you're trying to do.  Truthfully, since you're
asking for suggestions, I wouldn't spend too much on it unless you
have a specific application in mind.  In the almost 20 years I've been
a ham (and tinkerer), I've owned three scopes.  Two of them were
freebies (10 and 40 MHz bandwidth, respectively) and the third, which
I still have, is a Tektronix 464 100-MHz analog storage model that I
bought for a reasonable sum.  I didn't need the 464, but I had money
burning a hole in my pocket and one came along.  I really can't
imagine a ham application where you would *need* a more than 100-MHz
scope.  So, pick the 100ish-MHz scope with the portability, number of
channels, brand reputation, etc, that you want.  If I can't afford
nice things new, I usually choose to buy used things that were good
when they were new.

Just one opinion, though...

73,

--Ethan, K8GU/3.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:40 AM, TAC <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've decided to spring for a new digital storage oscilloscope and thought I'd
> solicit some opinions on how much scope I really need for general
> electronics and ham radio. 2 or 4 channel, 100 or 200 Mhz, memory buffer
> size, etc?Anyone using the PicoScope?  At work we have 500 Mhz, 4 GSa/s
> Agilent scopes and unfortunately that's a little out of my budget.  I was
> looking at the PicoScope line (http://www.picotech.com/) which look pretty
> interesting.  Looks like there are a number of cheap knock offs out of
> China. Thnx,-TAC
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Oscilloscope-Requirements-tp7563195.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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--
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Repair.  Re-use.  Re-purpose.  Recycle.
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Jim Wiley
In reply to this post by TAC

TAC -


You might consider purchasing a used model.  I have an older Tektronix
TDS-200  60 MHz digital scope, and it works very well for me with ham
radio related issues.  All things being equal, I would have preferred
the 100 MHz version, but 60 MHz was what I could afford at the time (I
purchased the instrument new).  However, since then, there has been a
goodly selection of competent instruments available from eBay and
various instrument suppliers, such as Tucker electronics.  Do a Google
search for used / reconditioned test equipment.   If you make your
purchase from a company that refurbishes such instruments, they will
usually offer a 90 day or longer warranty.


2 channel operation should be enough for whatever you will need.  I have
4-channel capability in a Tek 7603 series analog scope, but have yet to
have a need to use it.  Some models of digital scopes include a FFT
(Fast Fourier Transform) function that will allow you to use the
instrument as a spectrum analyzer for signals that are within it's
bandwidth capabilities.  Interesting features of digital scopes:  The
ability to display a waveform, and simultaneously see frequency, P-P,
RMS, values in digital form. Also the ability to change the sweep speed
after the fact, expanding or compressing the vertical and horizontal
scales after the signal has gone.  Very useful for analysis of one-shot
phenomena.


Good luck with your purchase.


- Jim, KL7CC

On 9/24/2012 3:40 AM, TAC wrote:

> I've decided to spring for a new digital storage oscilloscope and thought I'd
> solicit some opinions on how much scope I really need for general
> electronics and ham radio. 2 or 4 channel, 100 or 200 Mhz, memory buffer
> size, etc?Anyone using the PicoScope?  At work we have 500 Mhz, 4 GSa/s
> Agilent scopes and unfortunately that's a little out of my budget.  I was
> looking at the PicoScope line (http://www.picotech.com/) which look pretty
> interesting.  Looks like there are a number of cheap knock offs out of
> China. Thnx,-TAC
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Oscilloscope-Requirements-tp7563195.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Rick Stealey
In reply to this post by TAC

There was a company displaying at Dayton this year, called rigol (http://www.rigolna.com/)
Looks like they have digital scopes starting in the $329 range.  Spectrum analyzer around $1300.

Rick  K2XT
     
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

ke9uw
Rigol scopes are fine. I bought one for $400, comes with two probes,etc. Model DS1102E. Digital storage, 100 MHz, 2 channel.
BTW, a friend of mine zapped two of the probes on X10 connected to a 100 watt RF output at 14 MHz...so don't do that.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 24, 2012, at 7:23 AM, "Rick Stealey" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> There was a company displaying at Dayton this year, called rigol (http://www.rigolna.com/)
> Looks like they have digital scopes starting in the $329 range.  Spectrum analyzer around $1300.
>
> Rick  K2XT
>                        
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Chuck, KE9UW
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Thomas 'tom' Malkus
Hi!

Am 24.09.2012 14:34, schrieb hawley, charles j jr:
> Rigol scopes are fine. I bought one for $400, comes with two
> probes,etc. Model DS1102E. Digital storage, 100 MHz, 2 channel. BTW,

I bought this scope, too. It's fantastic for this price. The DSA815-TG
Spectrum Analyzer is also fine. I will buy one in the next time.

73 de Tom
--
DL7BJ * DL-QRP-AG #1186 * DARC  OV I19 * ARRL
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Jack Smith-6
In reply to this post by ke9uw
Dave Jones at EEV.blog http://www.eevblog.com/episodes/ has done a
series of video reviews, including tear downs, of many of the new crop
of inexpensive digital oscilloscopes. The index is chronological, not by
subject category, but if you scroll through it, you'll find several
highly informative videos on digital oscilloscopes.

Actually, most all of his videos are worth viewing.

There's also a useful EEV forum (links at the EEV blog page) with lots
of discussion relevant to low end digital oscilloscopes. Some time spent
there will be well invested.

I have four oscilloscopes here, two analog (Tek 465 and Tek 2246, both
100 MHz), and two digital (Tek TDS430A, 500 MHz and a new Agilent
MSO7304B 350 MHz, 4 channels) and both analog and digital 'scopes have
their places. A decent Tek 100 MHz dual channel oscilloscope, such as
the 465, can be purchased at quite reasonable prices and for a beginner
may be a better starting point than a digital oscilloscope.

Jack K8ZOA


>> There was a company displaying at Dayton this year, called rigol (http://www.rigolna.com/)
>> Looks like they have digital scopes starting in the $329 range.  Spectrum analyzer around $1300.
>>
>>

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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Phillip Heller
In reply to this post by Rick Stealey
I have several Rigol instruments, including the DS-1102D (2 Channel 100Mhz w/ 16 Channel Logic Analyzer).

It's definitely been a useful investment and has performed very well for me.

--phil

On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:20 AM, Rick Stealey <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> There was a company displaying at Dayton this year, called rigol (http://www.rigolna.com/)
> Looks like they have digital scopes starting in the $329 range.  Spectrum analyzer around $1300.

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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

ke9uw
In reply to this post by Jack Smith-6
I would lean toward the 2200 or 2400 series Tek scopes rather than the 400 series.
I have had some 400 series with difficult to solve main attenuator issues (volt per division).
Not that all of them have it, but several I had, did. The later series, 2200 2400 seemed more reliable.

Chuck, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Jack Smith [[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:11 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Oscilloscope Requirements?

Dave Jones at EEV.blog http://www.eevblog.com/episodes/ has done a
series of video reviews, including tear downs, of many of the new crop
of inexpensive digital oscilloscopes. The index is chronological, not by
subject category, but if you scroll through it, you'll find several
highly informative videos on digital oscilloscopes.

Actually, most all of his videos are worth viewing.

There's also a useful EEV forum (links at the EEV blog page) with lots
of discussion relevant to low end digital oscilloscopes. Some time spent
there will be well invested.

I have four oscilloscopes here, two analog (Tek 465 and Tek 2246, both
100 MHz), and two digital (Tek TDS430A, 500 MHz and a new Agilent
MSO7304B 350 MHz, 4 channels) and both analog and digital 'scopes have
their places. A decent Tek 100 MHz dual channel oscilloscope, such as
the 465, can be purchased at quite reasonable prices and for a beginner
may be a better starting point than a digital oscilloscope.

Jack K8ZOA


>> There was a company displaying at Dayton this year, called rigol (http://www.rigolna.com/)
>> Looks like they have digital scopes starting in the $329 range.  Spectrum analyzer around $1300.
>>
>>

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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

John Ragle
In reply to this post by TAC
TAC and listeners...

I have had a small PicoScope for several years. It works very nicely as
advertised. The higher-class PicoScopes were out of my $/need bracket.

If you don't mind bulky and heavy hardware, eBay is not a bad place to
look for old and honorable Tektronix scopes (but finding the "storage"
function in one of these boat-anchors might be problematic).

About Chinese test instruments, I would say that my experience has been
quite negative...best to consider only a model that someone else says is
OK, or even usable. A HF signal generator that I bought was so unstable
that it was even difficult to find the signal from it with a
communications receiver. Fortunately, the vendor accepted a return.

Good luck!

John Ragle -- W1ZI

==========

On 9/24/2012 7:40 AM, TAC wrote:
> <snip> Anyone using the PicoScope? </snip>
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Paul Saffren N6HZ
On my bench is a  Rigol DS1202CA 200 MHz/2GSa/s  scope.  It replaced a Tektronix that burned out it's EL backlight supply.  The Rigol is a great piece of test equipment and it's pretty evident they had several Tek scopes to play with during the design process.  While this is a Chinese scope, it is obvious that quite a bit of western development went into it.  On the front there is a USB connector for a thumb drive and on the back a USB-B for direct computer connection sans HPIB interface. (the driver on the PC emulates HPIB)  This is a two channel scope with an external trigger and it comes with a pair of pretty good probes.   I have also had very good luck their customer service. Price is right around $1200, and they do have less expensive 100 MHz versions.  We have a few of their spectrum analyzers which for the money cant' be beat.

-Paul
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Jose Deschapelles
Paul, I own an Owon 100 MHZ. 2 MPS scope and find it very  nice. The model
is SGS8102-VGA. I bought it from Saelig.com, they sell Rigol, Owon, and
many other test equipment manufacturers. I look at the RF from my station
with a Bird 4873-020 Coupler, it can be varied to get up to 70 dB.
attenuation. If you figure that a KW is 60 dBm., you can adjust it so you
get a mW (o dBm) out. That's an RMS value of .0.223 Volts. The scope can
handle it. I want to use it full time as a Monitor Scope, but it also does
FFT, so you could use it to look at your spectrum. By the way, it comes
with a VGA output, USB ports, and LAN. This model with the VGA port runs
$599, the one without it runs $529. I haven't even touched on all the
features it has (due to all the digital controls) but it's easy to start
working with it, if you have worked with HP and Tek scopes, either analog
or digital. I use to have a Tek 475 in my bench all the time.

73,
Jose
W2JD



On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Paul Saffren N6HZ <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On my bench is a  Rigol DS1202CA 200 MHz/2GSa/s  scope.  It replaced a
> Tektronix that burned out it's EL backlight supply.  The Rigol is a great
> piece of test equipment and it's pretty evident they had several Tek scopes
> to play with during the design process.  While this is a Chinese scope, it
> is obvious that quite a bit of western development went into it.  On the
> front there is a USB connector for a thumb drive and on the back a USB-B
> for
> direct computer connection sans HPIB interface. (the driver on the PC
> emulates HPIB)  This is a two channel scope with an external trigger and it
> comes with a pair of pretty good probes.   I have also had very good luck
> their customer service. Price is right around $1200, and they do have less
> expensive 100 MHz versions.  We have a few of their spectrum analyzers
> which
> for the money cant' be beat.
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Oscilloscope-Requirements-tp7563195p7563213.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

bdenley
In reply to this post by Jim Wiley
Or look at the new scopes from Owan, Rigol, Atten, etc.  Amazing prices on these Chinese scopes.


Brian KB1VBF

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:16 AM, Jim Wiley <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> TAC -
>
>
> You might consider purchasing a used model.  I have an older Tektronix
> TDS-200  60 MHz digital scope, and it works very well for me with ham
> radio related issues.  All things being equal, I would have preferred
> the 100 MHz version, but 60 MHz was what I could afford at the time (I
> purchased the instrument new).  However, since then, there has been a
> goodly selection of competent instruments available from eBay and
> various instrument suppliers, such as Tucker electronics.  Do a Google
> search for used / reconditioned test equipment.   If you make your
> purchase from a company that refurbishes such instruments, they will
> usually offer a 90 day or longer warranty.
>
>
> 2 channel operation should be enough for whatever you will need.  I have
> 4-channel capability in a Tek 7603 series analog scope, but have yet to
> have a need to use it.  Some models of digital scopes include a FFT
> (Fast Fourier Transform) function that will allow you to use the
> instrument as a spectrum analyzer for signals that are within it's
> bandwidth capabilities.  Interesting features of digital scopes:  The
> ability to display a waveform, and simultaneously see frequency, P-P,
> RMS, values in digital form. Also the ability to change the sweep speed
> after the fact, expanding or compressing the vertical and horizontal
> scales after the signal has gone.  Very useful for analysis of one-shot
> phenomena.
>
>
> Good luck with your purchase.
>
>
> - Jim, KL7CC
>
> On 9/24/2012 3:40 AM, TAC wrote:
>> I've decided to spring for a new digital storage oscilloscope and thought I'd
>> solicit some opinions on how much scope I really need for general
>> electronics and ham radio. 2 or 4 channel, 100 or 200 Mhz, memory buffer
>> size, etc?Anyone using the PicoScope?  At work we have 500 Mhz, 4 GSa/s
>> Agilent scopes and unfortunately that's a little out of my budget.  I was
>> looking at the PicoScope line (http://www.picotech.com/) which look pretty
>> interesting.  Looks like there are a number of cheap knock offs out of
>> China. Thnx,-TAC
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Oscilloscope-Requirements-tp7563195.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Jose Deschapelles
By the way, one thing I liked about the Owon vs. Rigol is that it has an 8"
screen. I think the inside electronics is the same. One thing is that it 's
more expensive.
73,
Jose-W2JD
On Sep 24, 2012 7:00 PM, "Brian Denley" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Or look at the new scopes from Owan, Rigol, Atten, etc.  Amazing prices on
> these Chinese scopes.
>
>
> Brian KB1VBF
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:16 AM, Jim Wiley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > TAC -
> >
> >
> > You might consider purchasing a used model.  I have an older Tektronix
> > TDS-200  60 MHz digital scope, and it works very well for me with ham
> > radio related issues.  All things being equal, I would have preferred
> > the 100 MHz version, but 60 MHz was what I could afford at the time (I
> > purchased the instrument new).  However, since then, there has been a
> > goodly selection of competent instruments available from eBay and
> > various instrument suppliers, such as Tucker electronics.  Do a Google
> > search for used / reconditioned test equipment.   If you make your
> > purchase from a company that refurbishes such instruments, they will
> > usually offer a 90 day or longer warranty.
> >
> >
> > 2 channel operation should be enough for whatever you will need.  I have
> > 4-channel capability in a Tek 7603 series analog scope, but have yet to
> > have a need to use it.  Some models of digital scopes include a FFT
> > (Fast Fourier Transform) function that will allow you to use the
> > instrument as a spectrum analyzer for signals that are within it's
> > bandwidth capabilities.  Interesting features of digital scopes:  The
> > ability to display a waveform, and simultaneously see frequency, P-P,
> > RMS, values in digital form. Also the ability to change the sweep speed
> > after the fact, expanding or compressing the vertical and horizontal
> > scales after the signal has gone.  Very useful for analysis of one-shot
> > phenomena.
> >
> >
> > Good luck with your purchase.
> >
> >
> > - Jim, KL7CC
> >
> > On 9/24/2012 3:40 AM, TAC wrote:
> >> I've decided to spring for a new digital storage oscilloscope and
> thought I'd
> >> solicit some opinions on how much scope I really need for general
> >> electronics and ham radio. 2 or 4 channel, 100 or 200 Mhz, memory buffer
> >> size, etc?Anyone using the PicoScope?  At work we have 500 Mhz, 4 GSa/s
> >> Agilent scopes and unfortunately that's a little out of my budget.  I
> was
> >> looking at the PicoScope line (http://www.picotech.com/) which look
> pretty
> >> interesting.  Looks like there are a number of cheap knock offs out of
> >> China. Thnx,-TAC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Oscilloscope-Requirements-tp7563195.html
> >> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

Alan Bloom
In reply to this post by Phillip Heller
On Mon, 2012-09-24 at 09:14 -0400, Phillip Heller wrote:
> I have several Rigol instruments, including the DS-1102D (2 Channel
> 100Mhz w/ 16 Channel Logic Analyzer).
>
> It's definitely been a useful investment and has performed very well
> for me.

For those interested in an oscilloscope that also includes a logic
analyzer, I just got this notice from Saelig: ( http://www.saelig.com/ )

   Rigol has authorized a significant drop in the sale prices of their
   50MHz and 100MHz scopes which feature logic analysis.  The 50MHz
   DS1052D has been reduced from $899 down to $549, and the 100MHz
   DS1102D has been reduced from $1199 down to $715.  The DS1000D
   Series Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes are extremely versatile test
   tools with high-end features which include 16 Channel Logic
   Analysis, ...

Alan N1AL


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TAC
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Re: Oscilloscope Requirements?

TAC
In reply to this post by Jack Smith-6
Thanks Jack the eevblog was very helpful.  Exactly the kind of info I was looking for.  I appears the USB scopes are somewhat lacking in the samples/sec dept.  Looks like I'm going with a deskstop, 100mHz, 1 GSa/s, 2 channel.

Thanks for all the comments everybody.