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P3 Noise signature

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k6dgw

P3 Noise signature

OK, I think I posted the screen shots at

www.foothill.net/~andreaj/QRN.html

I think the capitalization may be important. For all who replied, this
is external noise, it appears instantaneously, usually not on weekdays
during the day, sometimes on weekends earlier, and usually around
1600-1700 local. The big peaks drift slowly, often stop and are steady.
There's a harmonic pattern to it, a wide fundamental, and increasingly
narrow and closer spaced "harmonics".

It's now 1945 local, and the P3 trace is below the baseline again. The
noise may have continued to move up in frequency, or gone away. If it
one of my neighbors' TV's, they must go to bed fairly early. :-))

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013
- www.cqp.org

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Ignacy

Re: P3 Noise signature

Finding the type of RFI is very complex since there are so many sources with similar footprints.

My P3 shows many types of noises form different directions. Neighbor on the left, right and ahead. Directional antennas help. 3 el K7TJR rx array is very useful as it allows to null 6 directions on 160-80m

You may find more feedback at the RFI group on eham.net.

Ignacy, NO9E

Jim Brown-10

Re: P3 Noise signature

In reply to this post by k6dgw

On 4/30/2013 7:44 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> If it one of my neighbors' TV's, they must go to bed fairly early. :-))

Perhaps we can organize a local team and go DF-ing. Someone in the
shack to confirm the noise is there while someone else walks around, and
a couple of 2M talkies. What you need is a portable RX that you can go
walking or driving with that can tune to where that noise is. Does it
appear below 80M? Perhaps on 160? if so, an AM BC RX would work. Or a
loop of some sort attached to a battery-powered KX3 I sometimes use my
Kenwood THF6A for chasing noise, but the HF RX probably isn't good
enough to hear your noise until you're real close to it.

Once you've identified a source, or source location, you can think about
how to approach the owner about a solution.

Also -- I suggest that you post this to the RFI reflector at
contesting.com. That's really the place for RFI discussions.

73, Jim K9YC
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Merv Schweigert

Re: P3 Noise signature

Use your P3, put an antenna on the IF port and it will receive signals
on the
freq that you see the interference, power it off a small battery and walk
around or use a directional antenna to pinpoint the location of the
interference,
P3 will tune the band needed.
One of the uses for the P3 that is overlooked,
Merv K9FD/KH6

> On 4/30/2013 7:44 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> If it one of my neighbors' TV's, they must go to bed fairly early. :-))
>
> Perhaps we can organize a local team and go DF-ing. Someone in the
> shack to confirm the noise is there while someone else walks around,
> and a couple of 2M talkies. What you need is a portable RX that you
> can go walking or driving with that can tune to where that noise is.
> Does it appear below 80M? Perhaps on 160? if so, an AM BC RX would
> work. Or a loop of some sort attached to a battery-powered KX3 I
> sometimes use my Kenwood THF6A for chasing noise, but the HF RX
> probably isn't good enough to hear your noise until you're real close
> to it.
>
> Once you've identified a source, or source location, you can think
> about how to approach the owner about a solution.
>
> Also -- I suggest that you post this to the RFI reflector at
> contesting.com. That's really the place for RFI discussions.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: P3 Noise signature

Administrator

IMPORTANT - If you do this, make sure to protect the P3 IF input with
back to back diodes. Static electricity on the whip antenna can harm the
input pre-amp. (Ask me how I know..)

I made an adapter here with a male-female BNC terminator with the back
to back diodes internally instead of the 50 ohm resistor.

I power the P3 with a 10 cell AA alkaline battery pack to search for RFI.

73,

Eric
elecraft.com

On 5/1/2013 10:10 AM, Merv Schweigert wrote:

> Use your P3, put an antenna on the IF port and it will receive
> signals on the
> freq that you see the interference, power it off a small battery and
> walk
> around or use a directional antenna to pinpoint the location of the
> interference,
> P3 will tune the band needed.
> One of the uses for the P3 that is overlooked,
> Merv K9FD/KH6
>

Bill K9YEQ

Re: P3 Noise signature

Eric,

Any particular diode you recommend?

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ,
Elecraft
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:19 PM
To: Merv Schweigert
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 Noise signature

IMPORTANT - If you do this, make sure to protect the P3 IF input with back
to back diodes. Static electricity on the whip antenna can harm the input
pre-amp. (Ask me how I know..)

I made an adapter here with a male-female BNC terminator with the back to
back diodes internally instead of the 50 ohm resistor.

I power the P3 with a 10 cell AA alkaline battery pack to search for RFI.

73,

Eric
elecraft.com

On 5/1/2013 10:10 AM, Merv Schweigert wrote:
> Use your P3, put an antenna on the IF port and it will receive
> signals on the freq that you see the interference, power it off a
> small battery and walk around or use a directional antenna to pinpoint
> the location of the interference,
> P3 will tune the band needed.
> One of the uses for the P3 that is overlooked, Merv K9FD/KH6
>

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Jim AB3CV

Re: P3 Noise signature

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

I think I missed something. I thought the P3 is IF only How does it
receive more than 200Khz around it's passband?

jim ab3cv

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> IMPORTANT - If you do this, make sure to protect the P3 IF input with
> back to back diodes. Static electricity on the whip antenna can harm the
> input pre-amp. (Ask me how I know..)
>
> I made an adapter here with a male-female BNC terminator with the back to
> back diodes internally instead of the 50 ohm resistor.
>
> I power the P3 with a 10 cell AA alkaline battery pack to search for RFI.
>
> 73,
>
> Eric
> elecraft.com
>
> On 5/1/2013 10:10 AM, Merv Schweigert wrote:
>
>> Use your P3, put an antenna on the IF port and it will receive signals
>> on the
>> freq that you see the interference, power it off a small battery and walk
>> around or use a directional antenna to pinpoint the location of the
>> interference,
>> P3 will tune the band needed.
>> One of the uses for the P3 that is overlooked,
>> Merv K9FD/KH6
>>
>>
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>
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>

Bob-270

Re: P3 Noise signature

It can be used as a visible-receiver/spectrum analyzer by setting the "IF"
frequency to the piece
of the spectrum you want to look at.

In the manual see Advanced Operating Procedures "Use with Other Radios"

It may be a "poor mans" spectrum analyzer but in my opinion not a poor
performance one
especially if you have it on hand and this is a free feature.

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR

On 5/1/2013 3:10 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> I think I missed something. I thought the P3 is IF only How does it
> receive more than 200Khz around it's passband?
>
> jim ab3cv
>
>
> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> IMPORTANT - If you do this, make sure to protect the P3 IF input with
>> back to back diodes. Static electricity on the whip antenna can harm the
>> input pre-amp. (Ask me how I know..)
>>
>> I made an adapter here with a male-female BNC terminator with the back to
>> back diodes internally instead of the 50 ohm resistor.
>>
>> I power the P3 with a 10 cell AA alkaline battery pack to search for RFI.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Eric
>> elecraft.com
>>
>> On 5/1/2013 10:10 AM, Merv Schweigert wrote:
>>
>>> Use your P3, put an antenna on the IF port and it will receive signals
>>> on the
>>> freq that you see the interference, power it off a small battery and walk
>>> around or use a directional antenna to pinpoint the location of the
>>> interference,
>>> P3 will tune the band needed.
>>> One of the uses for the P3 that is overlooked,
>>> Merv K9FD/KH6
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________**______________________________**__
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecraft<http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htm<http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email].**net <[hidden email]>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: P3 Noise signature

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

Jim,

The P3 does only receive 200 kHz around the selected IF frequency.

The P3 is not dedicated to the K3, so it can cover a wide range of IF
frequencies. That means it is "tunable" (via the menu) from 455 kHz to
21.7 MHz. One way to do it is set the XCVR SEL menu to "User" and then
set the frequency of interest using the XCVR DEF menu. If you only need
to cover a portion of the spectrum that is the IF programmed for one of
the transceivers listed in XCVR SEL, you do not have to mess with the
XCVR DEF menu.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/1/2013 3:10 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
> I think I missed something. I thought the P3 is IF only How does it
> receive more than 200Khz around it's passband?
>

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Alan Bloom

Re: P3 Noise signature

If you go into the "Xcvr Sel" menu and select the last item on the list,
"0 Hz" then the display will indicate the correct RF frequency at the IF
input connector. You can tune around by pressing the CENTER key. (Do
this with the K3 not connected to the P3 RS-232 port.)

As Eric mentioned, the P3's IF input has no over-voltage protection,
which is not a problem when it is connected to the K3 IF OUT, but if you
plan to connect an antenna directly to the P3 you need to protect it
from static discharge. A pair of back-to-back switching diodes in
parallel with the IF IN connector works fine.

Alan N1AL

On 5/1/2013 1:30 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Jim,
>
> The P3 does only receive 200 kHz around the selected IF frequency.
>
> The P3 is not dedicated to the K3, so it can cover a wide range of IF
> frequencies. That means it is "tunable" (via the menu) from 455 kHz to
> 21.7 MHz. One way to do it is set the XCVR SEL menu to "User" and then
> set the frequency of interest using the XCVR DEF menu. If you only need
> to cover a portion of the spectrum that is the IF programmed for one of
> the transceivers listed in XCVR SEL, you do not have to mess with the
> XCVR DEF menu.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 5/1/2013 3:10 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>> I think I missed something. I thought the P3 is IF only How does it
>> receive more than 200Khz around it's passband?
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Jim AB3CV

Re: P3 Noise signature

Thanks all!

jim ab3cv

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you go into the "Xcvr Sel" menu and select the last item on the list,
> "0 Hz" then the display will indicate the correct RF frequency at the IF
> input connector. You can tune around by pressing the CENTER key. (Do this
> with the K3 not connected to the P3 RS-232 port.)
>
> As Eric mentioned, the P3's IF input has no over-voltage protection, which
> is not a problem when it is connected to the K3 IF OUT, but if you plan to
> connect an antenna directly to the P3 you need to protect it from static
> discharge. A pair of back-to-back switching diodes in parallel with the IF
> IN connector works fine.
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>
>
> On 5/1/2013 1:30 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> The P3 does only receive 200 kHz around the selected IF frequency.
>>
>> The P3 is not dedicated to the K3, so it can cover a wide range of IF
>> frequencies. That means it is "tunable" (via the menu) from 455 kHz to
>> 21.7 MHz. One way to do it is set the XCVR SEL menu to "User" and then
>> set the frequency of interest using the XCVR DEF menu. If you only need
>> to cover a portion of the spectrum that is the IF programmed for one of
>> the transceivers listed in XCVR SEL, you do not have to mess with the
>> XCVR DEF menu.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 5/1/2013 3:10 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>>
>>> I think I missed something. I thought the P3 is IF only How does it
>>> receive more than 200Khz around it's passband?
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________**______________________________**__
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecraft<http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htm<http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email].**net <[hidden email]>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
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Bill Frantz

Re: P3 Noise signature

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

Making sure I understand "back to back"...

One diode is wired in parallel with the other and the cathode
end of one is connected to the anode end of the other. This
connection will limit the passed voltage to +- the diode
insertion drop, about .6 volts.

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 5/1/13 at 3:13 PM, [hidden email] (Alan Bloom) wrote:

>A pair of back-to-back switching diodes in parallel with the IF
>IN connector works fine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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(408)356-8506 | fear is fear itself." - FDR | 16345
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CA 95032

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Bruce Beford-2

Re: P3 Noise signature

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Correct. -Bruce, N1RX

> Making sure I understand "back to back"...

> One diode is wired in parallel with the other and the cathode
> end of one is connected to the anode end of the other. This
> connection will limit the passed voltage to +- the diode
> insertion drop, about .6 volts.

> Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

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Merv Schweigert

Re: P3 Noise signature

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Yes I should have mentioned that Eric. I made an adapter from a small box
that has a male BNC on one end, diodes inside, and a female BNC
on the other end, I use a whip with a bnc for general hunting, or a coax
cable to a hand held loop antenna for some directional work, depending
on freq in use.
Works quite well as you can see the noise pattern that is bugging you and
see the signal increase or decrease much better than on a metered
instrument.
For a battery I steal one of my model aircraft LiPo types, have several
packs that are 5000 ma 12 volt, they last plenty long to noise hunt.
Just have to overcome the idea of taking the P3 out of the shack into the
field. :o)

73 Merv K9FD/KH6

> IMPORTANT - If you do this, make sure to protect the P3 IF input with
> back to back diodes. Static electricity on the whip antenna can harm
> the input pre-amp. (Ask me how I know..)
>
> I made an adapter here with a male-female BNC terminator with the back
> to back diodes internally instead of the 50 ohm resistor.
>
> I power the P3 with a 10 cell AA alkaline battery pack to search for RFI.
>
> 73,
>
> Eric
> elecraft.com
>
> On 5/1/2013 10:10 AM, Merv Schweigert wrote:
>> Use your P3, put an antenna on the IF port and it will receive
>> signals on the
>> freq that you see the interference, power it off a small battery and
>> walk
>> around or use a directional antenna to pinpoint the location of the
>> interference,
>> P3 will tune the band needed.
>> One of the uses for the P3 that is overlooked,
>> Merv K9FD/KH6
>>
>
> .
>