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P3 "Point and Click"

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Elecraft mailing list

P3 "Point and Click"

The point and click function of the P3 is really a misnomer. It is more on the order of twist and push. When operating a contest in S&P mode and using the P3 to search for signals, I find the current functionality suboptimal. I have yet SVGA option with a large screen; it would be so much easier to be able to use a mouse and have true "point and click". I wonder if this will ever be a reality. It would make the P3 far more functional.

73,
Ed K6CTA

Sent from my iPhone

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donovanf

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

Hi Ed,

Try operating your P3 in fixed spectrum - tuned VFO mode (FixMode).
You simply turn the K3 dial to "point" the VFO Cursor to the signal
of interest displayed on the P3.

Its very fast, faster than point and click with a mouse

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ed Schuller via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 4:12:12 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"

The point and click function of the P3 is really a misnomer. It is more on the order of twist and push. When operating a contest in S&P mode and using the P3 to search for signals, I find the current functionality suboptimal. I have yet SVGA option with a large screen; it would be so much easier to be able to use a mouse and have true "point and click". I wonder if this will ever be a reality. It would make the P3 far more functional.

73,
Ed K6CTA

Sent from my iPhone

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James Walker

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

Frank,

You are drinking the cool aide. With the mouse click option you can tune all over the band quickly, sampling all kinds of signals in the time it takes to retune one new station. I complain about this at Dayton every year and am always told it’s not necessary. It’s not necessary any more than the P-3 is necessary but it sure would be a nice feature.

Jimmy Walker
WA4ILO
Macon, GA

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:11 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hi Ed,
>
>
> Try operating your P3 in fixed spectrum - tuned VFO mode (FixMode).
> You simply turn the K3 dial to "point" the VFO Cursor to the signal
> of interest displayed on the P3.
>
>
> Its very fast, faster than point and click with a mouse
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Ed Schuller via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 4:12:12 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"
>
> The point and click function of the P3 is really a misnomer. It is more on the order of twist and push. When operating a contest in S&P mode and using the P3 to search for signals, I find the current functionality suboptimal. I have yet SVGA option with a large screen; it would be so much easier to be able to use a mouse and have true "point and click". I wonder if this will ever be a reality. It would make the P3 far more functional.
>
> 73,
> Ed K6CTA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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WW3S

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Which is why I'm quite happy with my LP pan and power SDR option....

On Feb 13, 2017 12:29 PM, James Walker <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Frank,
>
> You are drinking the cool aide. With the mouse click option you can tune all over the band quickly, sampling all kinds of signals in the time it takes to retune one new station. I complain about this at Dayton every year and am always told it’s not necessary. It’s not necessary any more than the P-3 is necessary but it sure would be a nice feature.
>
> Jimmy Walker
> WA4ILO
> Macon, GA
>
> > On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:11 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ed,
> >
> >
> > Try operating your P3 in fixed spectrum - tuned VFO mode (FixMode).
> > You simply turn the K3 dial to "point" the VFO Cursor to the signal
> > of interest displayed on the P3.
> >
> >
> > Its very fast, faster than point and click with a mouse
> >
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Ed Schuller via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 4:12:12 PM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"
> >
> > The point and click function of the P3 is really a misnomer. It is more on the order of twist and push. When operating a contest in S&P mode and using the P3 to search for signals, I find the current functionality suboptimal. I have yet SVGA option with a large screen; it would be so much easier to be able to use a mouse and have true "point and click". I wonder if this will ever be a reality. It would make the P3 far more functional.
> >
> > 73,
> > Ed K6CTA
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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George Thornton

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

I have used both. I much prefer the P3.

The LP-Pan is tricky to set up and configure, and computers can be balky and unreliable. Adjustments can be tricky and counterintuitive, and require specialized knowledge of how the particular program works.

The P3 is a plug and play device. Adjustment is via various labeled tuning knobs and becomes pretty easy with a little practice.

In fixed mode the P3 can easily and directly tune to an interesting point on the band. Just rotate the knob to bring the cursor into position and press the button. Just as fast as a mouse.

From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jamie WW3S
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:57 AM
To: James Walker <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"

Which is why I'm quite happy with my LP pan and power SDR option....

On Feb 13, 2017 12:29 PM, James Walker <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]%3e> wrote:

>
> Frank,
>
> You are drinking the cool aide. With the mouse click option you can tune all over the band quickly, sampling all kinds of signals in the time it takes to retune one new station. I complain about this at Dayton every year and am always told it’s not necessary. It’s not necessary any more than the P-3 is necessary but it sure would be a nice feature.
>
> Jimmy Walker
> WA4ILO
> Macon, GA
>
> > On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:11 PM, [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ed,
> >
> >
> > Try operating your P3 in fixed spectrum - tuned VFO mode (FixMode).
> > You simply turn the K3 dial to "point" the VFO Cursor to the signal
> > of interest displayed on the P3.
> >
> >
> > Its very fast, faster than point and click with a mouse
> >
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Ed Schuller via Elecraft" <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]%3e>
> > To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 4:12:12 PM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"
> >
> > The point and click function of the P3 is really a misnomer. It is more on the order of twist and push. When operating a contest in S&P mode and using the P3 to search for signals, I find the current functionality suboptimal. I have yet SVGA option with a large screen; it would be so much easier to be able to use a mouse and have true "point and click". I wonder if this will ever be a reality. It would make the P3 far more functional.
> >
> > 73,
> > Ed K6CTA
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>

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donovanf

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

In reply to this post by James Walker

Hi Jimmy,

I agree, point and click is a desirable feature, and shouldn't be
difficult to implement via a mouse connected to the P3 USB port.

Since your option doesn't exist (at least not yet), suggest you try
my method which actually exists and works very well

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "James Walker" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 5:29:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"

Frank,

You are drinking the cool aide. With the mouse click option you can tune all over the band quickly, sampling all kinds of signals in the time it takes to retune one new station. I complain about this at Dayton every year and am always told it’s not necessary. It’s not necessary any more than the P-3 is necessary but it sure would be a nice feature.

Jimmy Walker
WA4ILO
Macon, GA

Joe Stone (KF5WBO)

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

Paul Saffren (N6HZ) can help us understand why we still haven't seen Mouse-n-Click QSY support for the P3 and PX3.

If you use a 2.4 GHz wireless dongle which supports both a keyboard and a mouse, the HID report sent to the P3 / PX3 contains not only the keyboard information,

struct KBDINFO {
struct {
uint8_t bmLeftCtrl : 1;
uint8_t bmLeftShift : 1;
uint8_t bmLeftAlt : 1;
uint8_t bmLeftGUI : 1;
uint8_t bmRightCtrl : 1;
uint8_t bmRightShift : 1;
uint8_t bmRightAlt : 1;
uint8_t bmRightGUI : 1;
};
uint8_t bReserved;
uint8_t Keys[6];
};

but also the mouse information,

struct MOUSEINFO {
struct {
uint8_t bmLeftButton : 1;
uint8_t bmRightButton : 1;
uint8_t bmMiddleButton : 1;
uint8_t bmDummy : 5;
};
int8_t dX;
int8_t dY;
};

Obviously, the P3 / PX3 is ignoring the mouse information.

Basic Mouse-n-Click QSY functionality would require ~25 lines of firmware.

Joe
KF5WBO

Jim Cox

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I agree fully with ED. I had thought the ability to plug a mouse into the
P3 and SVGA option was to be implemented quickly. I hope this option is
added soon for us that want to use a mouse for point and click. 73s Jim
K4JAF

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Schuller via Elecraft
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 10:12 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"

The point and click function of the P3 is really a misnomer. It is more on
the order of twist and push. When operating a contest in S&P mode and using
the P3 to search for signals, I find the current functionality suboptimal. I
have yet SVGA option with a large screen; it would be so much easier to be
able to use a mouse and have true "point and click". I wonder if this will
ever be a reality. It would make the P3 far more functional.

73,
Ed K6CTA

Sent from my iPhone

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Bill Frantz

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I normally tune using the P3/SVGA monitor for tuning. For me, it
is a visual experience. During the WPX RTTY contest last
weekend, I set my span to about 25, so I could see both tracks
of the RTTY signal. I could get close enough to decode using the
KPOD knob. I fine tuned by ear, and by using the Crossed Ellipse
Indicator/XY scope in cocoaModem. I use a similar technique to
tune CW and can get the APF tuned by lining up the tuning
indicator with the signal in the waterfall.

The bigest issue with this technique is the lag between turning
the knob and seeing the SVGA display change. Using a mouse would
make the lag less important. Where I would a mouse almost all
the time is in the big jumps. On a single band contest, I start
at one end of the active area of the band and S&P my way to the
other end. By then, the band conditions have changed enough that
is is worth going through again, so there is a big jump to the
other side of the active area. There are also sometimes gaps big
enough to be too slow with knob turning.

There may be a technical implementation problem for Elecraft.
The last time I paid attention, the P3 didn't support USB hubs.
They would need hub support to use both a mouse and keyboard at
the same time.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/13/17 at 8:12 AM, [hidden email] (Ed Schuller via
Elecraft) wrote:

>The point and click function of the P3 is really a misnomer. It
>is more on the order of twist and push. When operating a
>contest in S&P mode and using the P3 to search for signals, I
>find the current functionality suboptimal. I have yet SVGA
>option with a large screen; it would be so much easier to be
>able to use a mouse and have true "point and click". I wonder
>if this will ever be a reality. It would make the P3 far more functional.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to
do good for
408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
www.pwpconsult.com |

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gm3sek

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

In reply to this post by donovanf

Sorry, Frank, but the claim that the K3 VFO is faster than the mouse can
only be true for small frequency changes.

The last time I asked Elecraft about this feature, I put this to the
test by comparing the two VFO knobs on the K3 against the small knob on
the P3-SVGA, and comparing both of those against an SDR panadapter that
was linked to the K3 and tuned with a mouse.

The time taken to tune with a knob increases with the frequency span of
the display, and with a wide display this can take several seconds of
vigorous spinning. Changing into 'high gear' using the RATE button
doesn't really help because the button-presses bring a time penalty of
their own, plus a significant risk of stabbing the wrong button.

The unweighted VFO B knob is also significantly slower than VFO A.

But if the mouse is close to hand, the time taken to point and click
anywhere on the panadapter screen is *completely independent* of the
on-screen frequency span and is never greater than 2-3 seconds. My mouse
sits right between the keyer paddles and the K3 tuning knob so it's
always easy to find, and then the hand goes naturally back to the VFO
knob for the final zeroing-in.

Meanwhile, the cursor knob on the P3 came in a hopeless third. For
anyone who needs to QSY quickly, this is not a serious operating
feature.

So there really is no contest here. For QSYing rapidly across a wide
frequency range to jump on new stations, the mouse is a very clear
winner.

And that, I regret to say, is why my second K3 purchase did not include
another P3. Without the mouse feature I wouldn't even consider it.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>[hidden email]
>Sent: 13 February 2017 17:12
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"
>
>Hi Ed,
>
>
>Try operating your P3 in fixed spectrum - tuned VFO mode (FixMode).
>You simply turn the K3 dial to "point" the VFO Cursor to the signal
>of interest displayed on the P3.
>
>
>Its very fast, faster than point and click with a mouse
>
>
>73
>Frank
>W3LPL
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: "Ed Schuller via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 4:12:12 PM
>Subject: [Elecraft] P3 "Point and Click"
>
>The point and click function of the P3 is really a misnomer. It is more

on the
>order of twist and push. When operating a contest in S&P mode and using
>the P3 to search for signals, I find the current functionality
suboptimal. I
>have yet SVGA option with a large screen; it would be so much easier to
be
>able to use a mouse and have true "point and click". I wonder if this
will

>ever be a reality. It would make the P3 far more functional.
>
>73,
>Ed K6CTA
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Stone (KF5WBO)

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

> There may be a technical implementation problem for Elecraft.
> The last time I paid attention, the P3 didn't support USB hubs.
> They would need hub support to use both a mouse and
> keyboard at the same time.

This assumes the keyboard and mouse have separate / dedicated 2.4 GHz wireless dongles. There are plenty of keyboard / mouse combos which share the same wireless dongle. I've tested several of them with my PX3. Of course, the PX3 ignores the mouse HID report at the moment, however, the keyboard HID report is interpreted just fine.

USB hub support is certainly preferred, allowing users more flexibility in selecting their keyboard and mouse. As we've noted in the past, USB hub support would allow a thumb drive to be connected with the keyboard and mouse. For example, a unique key combination could be used to capture the P3 / PX3 screen to the thumb drive. The P3 / PX3 currently supports the ability to capture the screen, however, you first must remove the keyboard dongle and insert the thumb drive.

I suspect many (most?) users would be content with only Mouse-n-Click QSY (no keyboard). This wouldn't require USB hub support.

Joe
KF5WBO

Tim Tucker

Re: P3 "Point and Click"

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

What is this "mouse" think you speak of? I've moved on to using NAP3 or
HRD with the touch screen :) It works really well on DigitalMaster with
the digital modes: Touch the waterfall, start typing.

Actually, that's not entirely true...there are just some navigation
elements that do work better with a mouse. But not having point and click
with mouse is one of the reasons why I never did the P3, either.

Tim
--
Owner, worldwidedx.com
AE6LX, Amateur Radio
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