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PSK-D Feature request

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Jim AB3CV

PSK-D Feature request

I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
FSK-D.

73

jim ab3cv
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: PSK-D Feature request

It's a totally different protocol/code ... RTTY/FSK is an on/off keying
signal while PSK31 is a variable length code that no UART is programmed
to generate.

If you don't want to use a sound card for PSK31, use the terminal in
the K3 Utility program.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/1/2014 11:30 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

> I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
> FSK-D.
>
> 73
>
> jim ab3cv
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim AB3CV

Re: PSK-D Feature request

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

While reading the manual to setup PSK using Data-A I now read that PSK-D is
actually capable of being driven by FSK keying line already! Missed that
one.

Jim AB3CV (now RTFMing...)

On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
> FSK-D.
>
> 73
>
> jim ab3cv
>
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John Bastin

Re: PSK-D Feature request

I'm interested in learning how you explain to your software that it should listen for PSK and decode it while it's transmitting FSK.

73,

John K8AJS
[hidden email]

On 01 Jan 2014, at 6:33 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> While reading the manual to setup PSK using Data-A I now read that PSK-D is
> actually capable of being driven by FSK keying line already! Missed that
> one.
>
> Jim AB3CV (now RTFMing...)
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
>> FSK-D.

Jim AB3CV

Re: PSK-D Feature request

John

I haven't tried it yet since I just discovered it. The FSK pin on the AUX
connector when in PSK-D mode does what is needed. It's the mode on the
radio that determines whether the FSK pin does one thing or the other.

Make sense?

jim ab3cv

On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 9:54 PM, John Bastin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm interested in learning how you explain to your software that it should
> listen for PSK and decode it while it's transmitting FSK.
>
> 73,
>
> John K8AJS
> [hidden email]
>
> On 01 Jan 2014, at 6:33 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > While reading the manual to setup PSK using Data-A I now read that PSK-D
> is
> > actually capable of being driven by FSK keying line already! Missed that
> > one.
> >
> > Jim AB3CV (now RTFMing...)
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
> >> FSK-D.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

Jim Sheldon

Re: PSK-D Feature request

In reply to this post by John Bastin

Guys,
John Subich was right. Asserting PTT keys the radio and brings up the PSK idle, but there is no data transfer via the FSK input pin in PSK- D mode. The Vari-code aspect of the various PSK modes makes this impossible as it's currently implemented.

W0EB

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> John
>
> I haven't tried it yet since I just discovered it. The FSK pin on the AUX
> connector when in PSK-D mode does what is needed. It's the mode on the
> radio that determines whether the FSK pin does one thing or the other.
>
> Make sense?
>
> jim ab3cv
>
>
>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 9:54 PM, John Bastin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm interested in learning how you explain to your software that it should
>> listen for PSK and decode it while it's transmitting FSK.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> John K8AJS
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>> On 01 Jan 2014, at 6:33 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> While reading the manual to setup PSK using Data-A I now read that PSK-D
>> is
>>> actually capable of being driven by FSK keying line already! Missed that
>>> one.
>>>
>>> Jim AB3CV (now RTFMing...)
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
>>>> FSK-D.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Jim AB3CV

Re: PSK-D Feature request

Must be an erratum in the User manual:

From Page 31 of version D10 K3 Users manual:

PSK D is a Direct-transmit mode for PSK31. It’s the only mode that decodes
and displays PSK31 signals with the text decoder (pg. 33). Like FSK D, *PSK
D lets you transmit via FSK IN*, ASCII, or the keyer paddle (pg. 34). You
can also use auto-spot with PSK D if the tuning aid is displayed (CWT, pg.
34)

My emphasis added.

73

jim ab3cv

On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Jim Sheldon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Guys,
> John Subich was right. Asserting PTT keys the radio and brings up the PSK
> idle, but there is no data transfer via the FSK input pin in PSK- D mode.
> The Vari-code aspect of the various PSK modes makes this impossible as
> it's currently implemented.
>
> W0EB
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jan 1, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > John
> >
> > I haven't tried it yet since I just discovered it. The FSK pin on the AUX
> > connector when in PSK-D mode does what is needed. It's the mode on the
> > radio that determines whether the FSK pin does one thing or the other.
> >
> > Make sense?
> >
> > jim ab3cv
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 9:54 PM, John Bastin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm interested in learning how you explain to your software that it
> should
> >> listen for PSK and decode it while it's transmitting FSK.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> John K8AJS
> >> [hidden email]
> >>
> >>> On 01 Jan 2014, at 6:33 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> While reading the manual to setup PSK using Data-A I now read that
> PSK-D
> >> is
> >>> actually capable of being driven by FSK keying line already! Missed
> that
> >>> one.
> >>>
> >>> Jim AB3CV (now RTFMing...)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
> >>>> FSK-D.
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
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> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: PSK-D Feature request

In reply to this post by Jim Sheldon

The issue isn't varicode.

The issue is that PSK modes are Phase Shift, not Frequency Shift (FSK).

The radio would have to read raw data coming in, re-encode it, and
modulate it.

It isn't that different from CW-to-PSK conversion, but I wonder if it's
worth the trouble.

-- Lynn

On 1/1/2014 7:15 PM, Jim Sheldon wrote:
> The Vari-code aspect of the various PSK modes makes this impossible as it's currently implemented.

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: PSK-D Feature request

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

That *is* an error. PSK D allows transmitting via ASCII (using the KY
command) or keyer paddle. It does not accept any input from the FSK
line.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 1/1/2014 10:22 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> Must be an erratum in the User manual:
>
>>From Page 31 of version D10 K3 Users manual:
>
> PSK D is a Direct-transmit mode for PSK31. It’s the only mode that decodes
> and displays PSK31 signals with the text decoder (pg. 33). Like FSK D, *PSK
> D lets you transmit via FSK IN*, ASCII, or the keyer paddle (pg. 34). You
> can also use auto-spot with PSK D if the tuning aid is displayed (CWT, pg.
> 34)
>
> My emphasis added.
>
> 73
>
> jim ab3cv
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Jim Sheldon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Guys,
>> John Subich was right. Asserting PTT keys the radio and brings up the PSK
>> idle, but there is no data transfer via the FSK input pin in PSK- D mode.
>> The Vari-code aspect of the various PSK modes makes this impossible as
>> it's currently implemented.
>>
>> W0EB
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jan 1, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> I haven't tried it yet since I just discovered it. The FSK pin on the AUX
>>> connector when in PSK-D mode does what is needed. It's the mode on the
>>> radio that determines whether the FSK pin does one thing or the other.
>>>
>>> Make sense?
>>>
>>> jim ab3cv
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 9:54 PM, John Bastin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm interested in learning how you explain to your software that it
>> should
>>>> listen for PSK and decode it while it's transmitting FSK.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> John K8AJS
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>> On 01 Jan 2014, at 6:33 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> While reading the manual to setup PSK using Data-A I now read that
>> PSK-D
>>>> is
>>>>> actually capable of being driven by FSK keying line already! Missed
>> that
>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim AB3CV (now RTFMing...)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
>>>>>> FSK-D.
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Lyle Johnson

Re: PSK-D Feature request

Early versions of the K3 DSP firmware allowed "direct PSK" via the "FSK"
input pin on the ACC connector. Since no application software was ever
written to support this mode, it was deleted.

So, the documentation in the manual is correct for early code but was
not edited to keep pace with the change.

73 es HNY,

Lyle KK7P

>>> From Page 31 of version D10 K3 Users manual:
>>
>> PSK D is a Direct-transmit mode for PSK31. It’s the only mode that
>> decodes
>> and displays PSK31 signals with the text decoder (pg. 33). Like FSK
>> D, *PSK
>> D lets you transmit via FSK IN*, ASCII, or the keyer paddle (pg. 34).
>> You
>> can also use auto-spot with PSK D if the tuning aid is displayed
>> (CWT, pg.
>> 34)
>>
>> My emphasis added.

Jim AB3CV

Re: PSK-D Feature request

Thanks for the clarification!

have a safe and happy new year!

jim ab3cv

On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Early versions of the K3 DSP firmware allowed "direct PSK" via the "FSK"
> input pin on the ACC connector. Since no application software was ever
> written to support this mode, it was deleted.
>
> So, the documentation in the manual is correct for early code but was not
> edited to keep pace with the change.
>
> 73 es HNY,
>
> Lyle KK7P
>
> From Page 31 of version D10 K3 Users manual:
>>>>
>>>
>>> PSK D is a Direct-transmit mode for PSK31. It’s the only mode that
>>> decodes
>>> and displays PSK31 signals with the text decoder (pg. 33). Like FSK D,
>>> *PSK
>>> D lets you transmit via FSK IN*, ASCII, or the keyer paddle (pg. 34). You
>>> can also use auto-spot with PSK D if the tuning aid is displayed (CWT,
>>> pg.
>>> 34)
>>>
>>> My emphasis added.
>>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

pa0pje

Re: PSK-D Feature request

In reply to this post by John Bastin

The problem is the terminology, John.
In this case "FSK" and "PSK" should have been read as "ASCII" and
"Morse code". The translation from "ASCII" to "Varicode" to "PSK" and
vice versa as well as "ASCII etc" first to "5 bit Baudot" and then to
"FSK" is done by software in the radio itself, as opposed to software
running on a computer and processing audio going to and from a radio.

The second missing link is that FSK means simply a shifting carrier on a
given frequency with a given offset in the frequency domain.
FSK can be amplified with whatever class used, PSK however is a single
frequency which' phase is reversed in time hence amplitude driven and
must be amplified linearly, something not understood by some operators
who produce broad sigs with PSK, because the output meter is driven far
too high or the input of their TX is already clipping.

Just my two cents...
HNY to you all,
Peter

Op 2014-01-02 3:54 schreef John Bastin:

> I'm interested in learning how you explain to your software that it should listen for PSK and decode it while it's transmitting FSK.
>
> 73,
>
> John K8AJS
> [hidden email]
>
> On 01 Jan 2014, at 6:33 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> While reading the manual to setup PSK using Data-A I now read that PSK-D is
>> actually capable of being driven by FSK keying line already! Missed that
>> one.
>>
>> Jim AB3CV (now RTFMing...)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd like to see PSK-D be supported by the FSK keying line ala RTTY via
>>> FSK-D.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>