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PX3 Spike won't go away

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wb2ssb

PX3 Spike won't go away

I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.

Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck

I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.

Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.

--Joe
--WB2SSB

Joseph J. Sanger, M.D.
Associate Professor of Radiology
Director, Radiology Informatics

462 1st Ave.- OBH C&D 1st fl. Rm 7
New York, NY. 10016

Phone: (212) 263-3434

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

Re-seat the cables to the the PX3?

Phil W7OX

On 6/23/16 7:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph wrote:

> I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.
>
> Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck
>
> I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.
>
> Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.
>
> --Joe
> --WB2SSB

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wb2ssb

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

First thing that I tried, Phil, but thanks for the reply.

From: Phil Wheeler [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:08 AM
To: Sanger, Joseph; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PX3 Spike won't go away

Re-seat the cables to the the PX3?

Phil W7OX
On 6/23/16 7:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph wrote:

I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.

Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck

I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.

Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.

--Joe

--WB2SSB

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wb2ssb

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

Test

From: Phil Wheeler [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:08 AM
To: Sanger, Joseph; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PX3 Spike won't go away

Re-seat the cables to the the PX3?

Phil W7OX
On 6/23/16 7:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph wrote:

I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.

Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck

I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.

Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.

--Joe

--WB2SSB

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ve3ibw

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by wb2ssb

In prep for field day, I decided to stage everything last night and also
ran into the same problem as you describe. I re-seated all the cables. No
effect. I turned on the rx shft on the kx3 and the nasty noise shifted
away. Ok, that's good. But not what I wanted.

I disconnected the USB acc1 cable from the small computer I was planning to
take with me to FD and the noise vanished. Each of the computer, the kx3,
px3, external power supply, external antenna tuner are all grounded to a
common point. The exception is the monitor and fan (it's going to be hot
:-).

I connected the same setup using a raspberry pi instead of the small
computer and no noise observed at the tuned frequency. Drat.

So, I am thinking of buying a powered USB hub to try and isolate the USB
acc1 cable plugged into the PX3. Seems as thought the small computer I was
going to use is picking up the internal IF and bringing it back into the
PX3, KX3 via the USB acc1 cable.

regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting
> in a case for the past 6 months.
>
> Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the
> base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left
> hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3
> seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals
> on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or
> not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine,
> but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't
> go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in
> behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of
> stuck
>
> I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in
> behavior.
>
> Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.
>
> --Joe
> --WB2SSB
>
> Joseph J. Sanger, M.D.
> Associate Professor of Radiology
> Director, Radiology Informatics
>
> 462 1st Ave.- OBH C&D 1st fl. Rm 7
> New York, NY. 10016
>
> Phone: (212) 263-3434
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary,
> confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any
> unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you
> have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email
> and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check
> this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The
> organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus
> transmitted by this email.
> =================================
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>

Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

wb2ssb

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

Interesting. I see the noise spike even with the PX3 disconnected from the KX3, and neither is connected to a PC. There IS a notebook running about 15 feet away … never occurred to me that this COULD be the source of the noise. I will shut notebook down in a bit and see if the problem changes at all.

BTW, the noise spike only is occurring on 20 meters, it turns out. Strange.

Thanks for chiming in, Brian. Hope you sort out your troubles!

-- Joe
--WB2SSB

From: Brian Waterworth [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 7:31 PM
To: Sanger, Joseph
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PX3 Spike won't go away

In prep for field day, I decided to stage everything last night and also ran into the same problem as you describe. I re-seated all the cables. No effect. I turned on the rx shft on the kx3 and the nasty noise shifted away. Ok, that's good. But not what I wanted.
I disconnected the USB acc1 cable from the small computer I was planning to take with me to FD and the noise vanished. Each of the computer, the kx3, px3, external power supply, external antenna tuner are all grounded to a common point. The exception is the monitor and fan (it's going to be hot :-).
I connected the same setup using a raspberry pi instead of the small computer and no noise observed at the tuned frequency. Drat.
So, I am thinking of buying a powered USB hub to try and isolate the USB acc1 cable plugged into the PX3. Seems as thought the small computer I was going to use is picking up the internal IF and bringing it back into the PX3, KX3 via the USB acc1 cable.
regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.

Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck

I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.

Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.

--Joe
--WB2SSB

Joseph J. Sanger, M.D.
Associate Professor of Radiology
Director, Radiology Informatics

462 1st Ave.- OBH C&D 1st fl. Rm 7
New York, NY. 10016

Phone: (212) 263-3434

------------------------------------------------------------
This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
=================================
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ve3ibw

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

I hope so too :-) I have asked my assistant band captain to bring a
laptop. I was hoping to use this little Stealth computer. It is fanless,
encased in a metal shell and is a 12v computer. I stuffed an SSD in it and
run N1MM+ and FlDigi. A nice little package for FD, or so I thought :-)

I also see the most severe noise on 20m and when I switched to 40m, the
noise wasn't as bad, but still there. The computer is only about 2 feet
away from the KX3 and PX3. I also tried to bypass the PX3 with the
computer cable and go direct to the KX3. Noise was still there.

When I had the RPi connected with no noise, I decided to turn on the small
stealth computer. It was not connected to the KX3 nor PX3 via audio or USB
acc1 cables. However, as the processor was working hard during boot, the
noise reappeared on the PX3. Not as strong, in fact somewhat weak, but it
was still there. The only common connections were the grounding straps and
the power supply (powerpole block).

I am going to move the equipment around a bit, especially the power supply
and powerpole block. They normally aren't that close to the equipment in
the shack. I moved everything to a small table that I plan to have setup
at my station. Perhaps something is too close to the KX3 and that is what
is picking up the RFI.

Good luck to you to Joe. I am sure you will find the offender eventually
too.

regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 7:34 PM, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Interesting. I see the noise spike even with the PX3 disconnected from
> the KX3, and neither is connected to a PC. There IS a notebook running
> about 15 feet away … never occurred to me that this COULD be the source of
> the noise. I will shut notebook down in a bit and see if the problem
> changes at all.
>
>
>
> BTW, the noise spike only is occurring on 20 meters, it turns out.
> Strange.
>
>
>
> Thanks for chiming in, Brian. Hope you sort out your troubles!
>
>
>
> -- Joe
>
> --WB2SSB
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Waterworth [mailto:[hidden email]]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 23, 2016 7:31 PM
> *To:* Sanger, Joseph
> *Cc:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] PX3 Spike won't go away
>
>
>
> In prep for field day, I decided to stage everything last night and also
> ran into the same problem as you describe. I re-seated all the cables. No
> effect. I turned on the rx shft on the kx3 and the nasty noise shifted
> away. Ok, that's good. But not what I wanted.
>
> I disconnected the USB acc1 cable from the small computer I was planning
> to take with me to FD and the noise vanished. Each of the computer, the
> kx3, px3, external power supply, external antenna tuner are all grounded to
> a common point. The exception is the monitor and fan (it's going to be hot
> :-).
>
> I connected the same setup using a raspberry pi instead of the small
> computer and no noise observed at the tuned frequency. Drat.
>
> So, I am thinking of buying a powered USB hub to try and isolate the USB
> acc1 cable plugged into the PX3. Seems as thought the small computer I was
> going to use is picking up the internal IF and bringing it back into the
> PX3, KX3 via the USB acc1 cable.
>
> regards,
>
> Brian
>
> VE3IBW
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting
> in a case for the past 6 months.
>
> Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the
> base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left
> hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3
> seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals
> on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or
> not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine,
> but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't
> go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in
> behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of
> stuck
>
> I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in
> behavior.
>
> Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.
>
> --Joe
> --WB2SSB
>
> Joseph J. Sanger, M.D.
> Associate Professor of Radiology
> Director, Radiology Informatics
>
> 462 1st Ave.- OBH C&D 1st fl. Rm 7
> New York, NY. 10016
>
> Phone: (212) 263-3434
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary,
> confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any
> unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you
> have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email
> and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check
> this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The
> organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus
> transmitted by this email.
> =================================
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> ------------------------------------------------------------
> This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary,
> confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any
> unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you
> have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email
> and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check
> this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The
> organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus
> transmitted by this email.
> =================================
>

Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

Don Wilhelm

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by ve3ibw

Brian,

The answer is *bonding* as described by Jim Brown K9YC for minimizing
noise, hum and buzz.
Connecting everything to a common point may actually make the situation
worse (see the K9YC papers). "Grounding" everything will not minimize
noise, hum and buzz. Mother earth ground is not a 'sink' for RF, noise,
hum or buzz - it is only for safety from AC mains faults or suppression
of surges coming in on your antenna feedline.

Make your bonding follow the path(s) taken by the shields of your audio
cables and coax and you will have better results.

In other words, bond the computer to the soundcard device (if included),
and bond that to the KX3.
Bond the KX3 to the PX3, and bond the antenna tuner to the KX3
(following the path of the coax).

Then you may bond the antenna tuner to your common ground point for AC
mains safety and lightning protection.

The reasoning behind this bonding is to conduct much of the noise, hum
and buzz to the *outside* of the equipment enclosures rather than having
it conducted onto the ground plane of the PC boards.

In the long past, we did not have those problems. Connectors were
mounted on the enclosure chassis, and any noise, hum or buzz would be
conducted onto the outside of the enclosure where it was not likely to
cause any harm.

With modern construction techniques, the connectors are mounted to the
PC board inside the enclosure (and not to the outside of the
enclosure). That means that any noise, hum and buzz that is picked up
on the shields of AF cables or coax will be conducted directly onto the
ground plane of the electronics. The bonding between enclosures in
parallel to the audio and RF paths drastically reduces the coupling of
that noise, hum and buzz onto the circuit board and lets it flow
harmlessly onto the outside of the enclosures. This is the "pin 1
problem" that K9YC refers to.

If you do equipment to equipment bonding and bond the final element
(amplifier or antenna tuner) to your station ground, everything in the
station will also be grounded - assuming you use heavy wire or strap for
the equipment to equipment bonding - the shield stripped from old RG8
coax will do nicely as will #12 or larger wire.

Try it, it works.

For those who ask how to bond to a laptop computer, my answer is "any
way you can" - if you have a jackscrew for a VGA connector, that is an
obvious point - otherwise connecting to the shell of a USB or HDMI
connector may be your only choice - do the best you can.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/23/2016 7:31 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:
> I disconnected the USB acc1 cable from the small computer I was planning to
> take with me to FD and the noise vanished. Each of the computer, the kx3,
> px3, external power supply, external antenna tuner are all grounded to a
> common point. The exception is the monitor and fan (it's going to be hot
> :-).
>
>

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Bill Frantz

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

For those laptops in aluminum cases, a alligator clip to the
case might work too.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/23/16 at 6:02 PM, [hidden email] (Don Wilhelm) wrote:

>For those who ask how to bond to a laptop computer, my answer
>is "any way you can" - if you have a jackscrew for a VGA
>connector, that is an obvious point - otherwise connecting to
>the shell of a USB or HDMI connector may be your only choice -
>do the best you can.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | There are now so many exceptions to the
408-356-8506 | Fourth Amendment that it operates only by
www.pwpconsult.com | accident. - William Hugh Murray

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ve3ibw

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Hi Don,

Many thanks for your reply. I have read Jim's and your advice and counsel
about RFI many times on this reflector and I am very grateful for your
response tonight.

I will give your advice a try. I have some extra shield cable and can make
the runs short between the equipment.

For some context on why I went to a common point. I read, what I thought
was an excellent article, about ground loops from the Flexradio site a
couple of years ago. Here is the link:
http://kc.flex-radio.com/knowledgebasearticle50426.aspx

I thought that daisy chaining would introduce ground loops and hence the
reason I went to a common point. However, I don't think you are advising
this.

Let me say it back to you: Follow the audio path first and then follow the
coax path. For me,

- Computer to the kx3 (using the computer's sound card for now)
- Then bond the kx3 to the px3
- Then bond the kx3 to the KPA500 (I am borrowing this for FD)
- then bond the KPA500 to my antenna tuner
- Then bond the antenna tuner to the station ground point
- Ground the power supply to the station ground.

Again, thanks Don for the advice. I will let everyone know how I do after
FD if my results change.

regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brian,
>
> The answer is *bonding* as described by Jim Brown K9YC for minimizing
> noise, hum and buzz.
> Connecting everything to a common point may actually make the situation
> worse (see the K9YC papers). "Grounding" everything will not minimize
> noise, hum and buzz. Mother earth ground is not a 'sink' for RF, noise,
> hum or buzz - it is only for safety from AC mains faults or suppression of
> surges coming in on your antenna feedline.
>
> Make your bonding follow the path(s) taken by the shields of your audio
> cables and coax and you will have better results.
>
> In other words, bond the computer to the soundcard device (if included),
> and bond that to the KX3.
> Bond the KX3 to the PX3, and bond the antenna tuner to the KX3 (following
> the path of the coax).
>
> Then you may bond the antenna tuner to your common ground point for AC
> mains safety and lightning protection.
>
> The reasoning behind this bonding is to conduct much of the noise, hum and
> buzz to the *outside* of the equipment enclosures rather than having it
> conducted onto the ground plane of the PC boards.
>
> In the long past, we did not have those problems. Connectors were mounted
> on the enclosure chassis, and any noise, hum or buzz would be conducted
> onto the outside of the enclosure where it was not likely to cause any harm.
>
> With modern construction techniques, the connectors are mounted to the PC
> board inside the enclosure (and not to the outside of the enclosure). That
> means that any noise, hum and buzz that is picked up on the shields of AF
> cables or coax will be conducted directly onto the ground plane of the
> electronics. The bonding between enclosures in parallel to the audio and
> RF paths drastically reduces the coupling of that noise, hum and buzz onto
> the circuit board and lets it flow harmlessly onto the outside of the
> enclosures. This is the "pin 1 problem" that K9YC refers to.
>
> If you do equipment to equipment bonding and bond the final element
> (amplifier or antenna tuner) to your station ground, everything in the
> station will also be grounded - assuming you use heavy wire or strap for
> the equipment to equipment bonding - the shield stripped from old RG8 coax
> will do nicely as will #12 or larger wire.
>
> Try it, it works.
>
> For those who ask how to bond to a laptop computer, my answer is "any way
> you can" - if you have a jackscrew for a VGA connector, that is an obvious
> point - otherwise connecting to the shell of a USB or HDMI connector may be
> your only choice - do the best you can.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 6/23/2016 7:31 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:
>
>> I disconnected the USB acc1 cable from the small computer I was planning
>> to
>> take with me to FD and the noise vanished. Each of the computer, the kx3,
>> px3, external power supply, external antenna tuner are all grounded to a
>> common point. The exception is the monitor and fan (it's going to be hot
>> :-).
>>
>>
>>
>

Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by ve3ibw

What sort of "small computer", Brian?

Phil W7OX

On 6/23/16 4:31 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:

> In prep for field day, I decided to stage everything last night and also
> ran into the same problem as you describe. I re-seated all the cables. No
> effect. I turned on the rx shft on the kx3 and the nasty noise shifted
> away. Ok, that's good. But not what I wanted.
>
> I disconnected the USB acc1 cable from the small computer I was planning to
> take with me to FD and the noise vanished. Each of the computer, the kx3,
> px3, external power supply, external antenna tuner are all grounded to a
> common point. The exception is the monitor and fan (it's going to be hot
> :-).
>
> I connected the same setup using a raspberry pi instead of the small
> computer and no noise observed at the tuned frequency. Drat.
>
> So, I am thinking of buying a powered USB hub to try and isolate the USB
> acc1 cable plugged into the PX3. Seems as thought the small computer I was
> going to use is picking up the internal IF and bringing it back into the
> PX3, KX3 via the USB acc1 cable.
>
> regards,
> Brian
> VE3IBW
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting
>> in a case for the past 6 months.
>>
>> Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the
>> base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left
>> hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3
>> seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals
>> on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or
>> not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine,
>> but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't
>> go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in
>> behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of
>> stuck
>>
>> I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in
>> behavior.
>>
>> Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.
>>
>> --Joe
>> --WB2SSB

Elecraft mailing list

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by wb2ssb

Ahaa....interesant. Azi mergem la nunta? Vad ca se casatoresc Brexit si Gerusia...la sfat loool

vy 73 de VE3GNO Daniel

From: "Sanger, Joseph" <[hidden email]>
To: 'Phil Wheeler' <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PX3 Spike won't go away

First thing that I tried, Phil, but thanks for the reply.

From: Phil Wheeler [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:08 AM
To: Sanger, Joseph; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PX3 Spike won't go away

Re-seat the cables to the the PX3?

Phil W7OX
On 6/23/16 7:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph wrote:

I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.

Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck

I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.

Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.

--Joe

--WB2SSB

------------------------------------------------------------
This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
=================================
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ve3ibw

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

Hi Phil,

It is a Stealth. I picked it up used at a flea market. Mine is an older
model no longer supported, but it works really well. Perfect pairing for
the KX3/PX3 due to its size and ability to run off of 12V.

https://www.stealth.com/littlepcs/fanless-mini-pcs/

regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What sort of "small computer", Brian?
>
> Phil W7OX
>
>
> On 6/23/16 4:31 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:
>
>> In prep for field day, I decided to stage everything last night and also
>> ran into the same problem as you describe. I re-seated all the cables.
>> No
>> effect. I turned on the rx shft on the kx3 and the nasty noise shifted
>> away. Ok, that's good. But not what I wanted.
>>
>> I disconnected the USB acc1 cable from the small computer I was planning
>> to
>> take with me to FD and the noise vanished. Each of the computer, the kx3,
>> px3, external power supply, external antenna tuner are all grounded to a
>> common point. The exception is the monitor and fan (it's going to be hot
>> :-).
>>
>> I connected the same setup using a raspberry pi instead of the small
>> computer and no noise observed at the tuned frequency. Drat.
>>
>> So, I am thinking of buying a powered USB hub to try and isolate the USB
>> acc1 cable plugged into the PX3. Seems as thought the small computer I
>> was
>> going to use is picking up the internal IF and bringing it back into the
>> PX3, KX3 via the USB acc1 cable.
>>
>> regards,
>> Brian
>> VE3IBW
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting
>>> in a case for the past 6 months.
>>>
>>> Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the
>>> base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left
>>> hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3
>>> seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the
>>> signals
>>> on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or
>>> not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine,
>>> but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that
>>> won't
>>> go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change
>>> in
>>> behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of
>>> stuck
>>>
>>> I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in
>>> behavior.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.
>>>
>>> --Joe
>>> --WB2SSB
>>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

Clay Autery

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

You just HAD to make me aware of this companies existence.... ;)
Nice products...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/24/2016 5:08 AM, Brian Waterworth wrote:

> Hi Phil,
>
> It is a Stealth. I picked it up used at a flea market. Mine is an older
> model no longer supported, but it works really well. Perfect pairing for
> the KX3/PX3 due to its size and ability to run off of 12V.
>
> https://www.stealth.com/littlepcs/fanless-mini-pcs/
>
> regards,
> Brian
> VE3IBW
>

Clay Autery

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

companies --> company's WW, -5 points, Ouch, I don't usually make such
glaring grammatical errors. Apologize...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/24/2016 9:50 AM, Clay Autery wrote:

> You just HAD to make me aware of this companies existence.... ;)
> Nice products...
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
> On 6/24/2016 5:08 AM, Brian Waterworth wrote:
>> Hi Phil,
>>
>> It is a Stealth. I picked it up used at a flea market. Mine is an older
>> model no longer supported, but it works really well. Perfect pairing for
>> the KX3/PX3 due to its size and ability to run off of 12V.
>>
>> https://www.stealth.com/littlepcs/fanless-mini-pcs/
>>
>> regards,
>> Brian
>> VE3IBW
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by ve3ibw

On Thu,6/23/2016 7:16 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:
> For some context on why I went to a common point. I read, what I thought
> was an excellent article, about ground loops from the Flexradio site a
> couple of years ago. Here is the link:
> http://kc.flex-radio.com/knowledgebasearticle50426.aspx
>
> I thought that daisy chaining would introduce ground loops and hence the
> reason I went to a common point.
Look at your equipment -- there is already a "daisy-chained" loop
between equipment in the form of those audio cables and coax. The
problem, as Don notes, is that they often don't go to the chassis, but
rather to the circuit board, which couples hum, buzz, and RFI into and
out of equipment. This is "The Pin One Problem," first identified by pro
audio engineer Neil Muncy (W3WJE, SK) in 1994. Virtually all ham gear,
including Flex and Elecraft, has Pin One Problems at audio and control
connectors.

> However, I don't think you are advising this.

Brian,

Study my slides that Don referenced. The concept of a "ground loop" as a
cause of hum, buzz, and RFI is false, and causes people to do the WRONG
things to solve such problems. The slides show the TRUE cause, which is
leakage current from the AC power system.

The ONLY way in which a "loop" is problematic is that it provides a path
for magnetic coupling between victim equipment and a strong magnetic
field produced by a noise source. Two common sources are 1) the stray
fields produced by big power transformers, and 2) a wiring error in home
power wiring called a "double-bonded neutral," where the neutral is
bonded to the green wire somewhere other than the point where power
enters the building. In both cases, the interference is heard as HUM
(pure 60 Hz) rather than BUZZ (harmonics of 60 Hz).

73, Jim K9YC

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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ve3ibw

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

Thank you Jim. I have read your white paper on RFI and grounding and your
deliberations on the pin-1 problem. I guess I will have to read it again
:-) It was about 1.5 years ago.

Ok, I will start piecing together a new set of interconnecting braid
cables, as Don recommended, tonight.

Joe, I feel as though I usurped your original thread. Hopefully it helped
you as much as it helped me.

regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 11:37 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Thu,6/23/2016 7:16 PM, Brian Waterworth wrote:
>
>> For some context on why I went to a common point. I read, what I thought
>> was an excellent article, about ground loops from the Flexradio site a
>> couple of years ago. Here is the link:
>> http://kc.flex-radio.com/knowledgebasearticle50426.aspx
>>
>> I thought that daisy chaining would introduce ground loops and hence the
>> reason I went to a common point.
>>
> Look at your equipment -- there is already a "daisy-chained" loop between
> equipment in the form of those audio cables and coax. The problem, as Don
> notes, is that they often don't go to the chassis, but rather to the
> circuit board, which couples hum, buzz, and RFI into and out of equipment.
> This is "The Pin One Problem," first identified by pro audio engineer Neil
> Muncy (W3WJE, SK) in 1994. Virtually all ham gear, including Flex and
> Elecraft, has Pin One Problems at audio and control connectors.
>
> However, I don't think you are advising this.
>>
>
> Brian,
>
> Study my slides that Don referenced. The concept of a "ground loop" as a
> cause of hum, buzz, and RFI is false, and causes people to do the WRONG
> things to solve such problems. The slides show the TRUE cause, which is
> leakage current from the AC power system.
>
> The ONLY way in which a "loop" is problematic is that it provides a path
> for magnetic coupling between victim equipment and a strong magnetic field
> produced by a noise source. Two common sources are 1) the stray fields
> produced by big power transformers, and 2) a wiring error in home power
> wiring called a "double-bonded neutral," where the neutral is bonded to the
> green wire somewhere other than the point where power enters the building.
> In both cases, the interference is heard as HUM (pure 60 Hz) rather than
> BUZZ (harmonics of 60 Hz).
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Regards,
Brian
VE3IBW

Elecraft mailing list

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

In reply to this post by wb2ssb

Check the PX3 NB setting, if the NB level is too high then the spike increases as you describe.

73 from David GM4JJJ

> On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:58, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.
>
> Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck
>
> I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.
>
> Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.
>
> --Joe
> --WB2SSB
>
> Joseph J. Sanger, M.D.
> Associate Professor of Radiology
> Director, Radiology Informatics
>
> 462 1st Ave.- OBH C&D 1st fl. Rm 7
> New York, NY. 10016
>
> Phone: (212) 263-3434
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
> =================================
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

wb2ssb

Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

Excellent observation, David. That was my problem ... I didn't even remember I had the NB function on the P3 and it was set way high ....
Many Thanks!

-- Joe
-- WB2SSB

-----Original Message-----
From: David Anderson [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 5:09 AM
To: Sanger, Joseph
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PX3 Spike won't go away

Check the PX3 NB setting, if the NB level is too high then the spike increases as you describe.

73 from David GM4JJJ

> On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:58, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.
>
> Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck
>
> I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.
>
> Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.
>
> --Joe
> --WB2SSB
>
> Joseph J. Sanger, M.D.
> Associate Professor of Radiology
> Director, Radiology Informatics
>
> 462 1st Ave.- OBH C&D 1st fl. Rm 7
> New York, NY. 10016
>
> Phone: (212) 263-3434
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
> =================================
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Re: PX3 Spike won't go away

Wow that was a lucky guess! I only remembered about it when playing with the PX3 NB level myself yesterday.

David Anderson GM4JJJ

> On 27 Jun 2016, at 15:43, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Excellent observation, David. That was my problem ... I didn't even remember I had the NB function on the P3 and it was set way high ....
> Many Thanks!
>
> -- Joe
> -- WB2SSB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Anderson [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 5:09 AM
> To: Sanger, Joseph
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PX3 Spike won't go away
>
> Check the PX3 NB setting, if the NB level is too high then the spike increases as you describe.
>
> 73 from David GM4JJJ
>
>> On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:58, Sanger, Joseph <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have developed a new problem with my PX3, which has been quietly sitting in a case for the past 6 months.
>>
>> Whenever I tune across the display, there is a slowly rising spike at the base frequency (for instance, in USB mode this spike adheres to the left hand edge of the bandpass indicator on PX3 screeen), takes about 2-3 seconds or so to increase in intensity, and then dwarfs any of the signals on the band. This spike tracks across as I tune; it is there whether or not the antenna is connected. I can tune to stations and hear them fine, but the display is barely usable because of this very tall spike that won't go away. I reseated my cables connecting the PX3 to KX3, with no change in behavior. I have no other cables here to swap them out, and am kind of stuck
>>
>> I have updated b both KX3 and PX3 to latest firmware, with no change in behavior.
>>
>> Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.
>>
>> --Joe
>> --WB2SSB
>>
>> Joseph J. Sanger, M.D.
>> Associate Professor of Radiology
>> Director, Radiology Informatics
>>
>> 462 1st Ave.- OBH C&D 1st fl. Rm 7
>> New York, NY. 10016
>>
>> Phone: (212) 263-3434
>>
>>
>>
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