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Packing the Buddipole antenna

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stanleyd@bellsouth.net

Packing the Buddipole antenna

for those of you using the Buddipole antenna system, heres a video on
packing it up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TmRJzUvOkk

Stan
KB4IA

K3 sn 646
K2 sn 1089
KX1 sn
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Brian Lloyd-6

Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

I am heading out on a bit of a DXpedition in a month and will be
dragging the K2 along with me. I will be in St. Kitts (V4) and
Dominica (J7).

Thinking about antennas, I was planning to take my SGC-231 tuner and
some wire but am also looking at the Buddipole (which Elecraft sells
so that makes it on-topic here :-) as an alternative.

Would anyone care to comment on wire/tuner vs. Buddipole?

--

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com

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Simon (HB9DRV)

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

Wire antennas! The Buddipole is OK but a decent wire antenna will
outperform.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>
>
> Thinking about antennas, I was planning to take my SGC-231 tuner and some
> wire but am also looking at the Buddipole (which Elecraft sells so that
> makes it on-topic here :-) as an alternative.
>
> Would anyone care to comment on wire/tuner vs. Buddipole?
>

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Robert Allbright

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

Simon
have you actually tried the Buddipole?

I haven't but have examined it at Martin Lynch and just think that it
is a very convenient, quick way of getting
on air from a portable location with a system which is going to
considerably outperform mobile whips.
73 Rob, G3RCE

------------------------------------------
Wire antennas! The Buddipole is OK but a decent wire antenna will
outperform.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>

>
> Thinking about antennas, I was planning to take my SGC-231 tuner
> and some
> wire but am also looking at the Buddipole (which Elecraft sells so
> that
> makes it on-topic here :-) as an alternative.
>
> Would anyone care to comment on wire/tuner vs. Buddipole?
>
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Simon (HB9DRV)

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

Yes, I have one. Myself I would take some pre-made wire antennas, probably
dipoles which I can string up.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert Allbright" <[hidden email]>

> Simon
> have you actually tried the Buddipole?
>
> I haven't but have examined it at Martin Lynch and just think that it is
> a very convenient, quick way of getting
> on air from a portable location with a system which is going to
> considerably outperform mobile whips.
> 73 Rob, G3RCE

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David Cutter

Re: Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

Wire: bend it any way you like except into a coil, unless you really have to. SGC tuner adds weight and cost to your portable operation which do not add to your signal. Buy fishing poles instead.

David
G3UNA

>
> From: "Simon Brown (HB9DRV)" <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2008/05/13 Tue AM 07:54:05 BST
> To: "elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Buddipole vs. tuner and wire
>
> Wire antennas! The Buddipole is OK but a decent wire antenna will
> outperform.
>
> Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>
> >
> > Thinking about antennas, I was planning to take my SGC-231 tuner and some
> > wire but am also looking at the Buddipole (which Elecraft sells so that
> > makes it on-topic here :-) as an alternative.
> >
> > Would anyone care to comment on wire/tuner vs. Buddipole?
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Julian, G4ILO

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by Robert Allbright

Robert Allbright wrote

I haven't but have examined it at Martin Lynch and just think that it
is a very convenient, quick way of getting
on air from a portable location with a system which is going to
considerably outperform mobile whips.

Considerably outperform? Isn't it basically a pair of center loaded mobile whips back to back?

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Vk2NU

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

If you are more interested in DX, go for the Buddistick? I replaced the whip on mine with a 12foot MFJ telescopic whip and added an extra pole under the coil, this meant I could bypass the coil on all bands 20m and up. It worked well with a good counterpoise/radial system.

All the Buddipole stuff is very good quality, but not cheap, and as mentioned you can get a 10m telescopic fiberglass pole for a fraction of the price, and make something around this which would out perform a buddipole.

David, Vk2NU

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w7aqk

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

Brian and All,

Wire and a tuner is always good, particularly if you can get it up high
enough. And, it's cheaper!!!! But I think a Buddipole could be a good
choice unless you know in advance how you would be able to raise a wire
antenna adequately to get good results. I have a Buddipole system, and like
it very much for many portable situations. But I will tell you that more
often than not I use mine as a vertical (like the Buddistick). I almost
always get better results using the system vertically, primarily because
it's hard to get a Buddipole up high enough to really be effective. Of
course, it would be nice if you could raise the system up somewhat even if
you do use it vertically.

The other advantage to wire and a tuner is that you can use it multiband
more easily, assuming you also use balanced feedline. With a Buddipole (or
Buddistick) you have to keep changing the coil settings to change bands.
That might be a hassle. And if you do opt for the Buddistick idea, don't
hesitate to use an extra rod or two under the coil, and a longer top section
too. And use more radials than they suggest if you can. Any or all of
these will give you better results usually.

I just got my June QST yesterday, and Rick Littlefield (a well known QRPer)
has an article on a multiband wire antenna that is off center fed. And it
uses coax. But to do so, you have to pass on the WARC bands--those bands
always present a matching problem for coax fed multiband antennas. The G5RV
is a case in point. There's a little work involved in constructing Rick's
antenna, but once you do it, it looks like it would be fairly easy to
transport. I've never used an OCF antenna, but there are lots of good
reasons to do so.

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>
To: "elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 9:57 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

>I am heading out on a bit of a DXpedition in a month and will be dragging
>the K2 along with me. I will be in St. Kitts (V4) and Dominica (J7).
>
> Thinking about antennas, I was planning to take my SGC-231 tuner and some
> wire but am also looking at the Buddipole (which Elecraft sells so that
> makes it on-topic here :-) as an alternative.
>
> Would anyone care to comment on wire/tuner vs. Buddipole?
>
> --
>
> 73 de Brian, WB6RQN
> Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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n6wg

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

Hi Brian
It really depends on what you can find for
antenna supports. A wire dipole cut to frequency
and up in the air higher than you are likely to
raise a Buddipole will do more for you. The
Buddipole makes a nice fallback antenna, but
I'd try for an elevated wire antenna where possible.
73, Bob N6WG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>
To: "elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 9:57 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

> I am heading out on a bit of a DXpedition in a month and will be
> dragging the K2 along with me. I will be in St. Kitts (V4) and
> Dominica (J7).
>
> Thinking about antennas, I was planning to take my SGC-231 tuner and
> some wire but am also looking at the Buddipole (which Elecraft sells
> so that makes it on-topic here :-) as an alternative.
>
> Would anyone care to comment on wire/tuner vs. Buddipole?
>
> --
>
> 73 de Brian, WB6RQN
> Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

Brian,

Also remember that one cannot defeat the laws of physics.
A Buddypole is nothing but a piece of radiating 'wire' (OK, so it is a
tube or whip, little difference) that is tuned by the inductor. A piece
of wire the same length as the Buddypole attached to a tuner should
perform about the same. (you will still need the radials connected to
the tuner 'ground').

The longer the wire, and the higher the wire, the better the radiation
will be.

If you are looking for convenience, then the Buddypole or something
similar is a good choice, but if you are striving for efficiency, a
longer wire with a tuner or a dipole will be better.

73,
Don W3FPR

Robert Tellefsen wrote:

Matt Patterson-9

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by n6wg

Brian,

Have you considered something like the YO-YO tenna?
www.hamradiofun.com/yoyodeluxe.html

They are very nice and compact dipole antenna and can be made to
resonant length by only spooling out the correct amount of wire that you
need for the particular band you want to work. Hoist it up in a coconut
tree as high as you can get it and I think you'd be better off then with
the buddipole at ground level.

73 Matt
w5LL
On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 07:53 -0700, Robert Tellefsen wrote:

> Hi Brian
> It really depends on what you can find for
> antenna supports. A wire dipole cut to frequency
> and up in the air higher than you are likely to
> raise a Buddipole will do more for you. The
> Buddipole makes a nice fallback antenna, but
> I'd try for an elevated wire antenna where possible.
> 73, Bob N6WG
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>
> To: "elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 9:57 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Buddipole vs. tuner and wire
>
>
> > I am heading out on a bit of a DXpedition in a month and will be
> > dragging the K2 along with me. I will be in St. Kitts (V4) and
> > Dominica (J7).
> >
> > Thinking about antennas, I was planning to take my SGC-231 tuner and
> > some wire but am also looking at the Buddipole (which Elecraft sells
> > so that makes it on-topic here :-) as an alternative.
> >
> > Would anyone care to comment on wire/tuner vs. Buddipole?
> >
> > --
> >
> > 73 de Brian, WB6RQN
> > Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
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Brian Lloyd-6

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by David Cutter

Wow! Thanks for all the input. FWIW, I already own the SGC-231 tuner
so it and wire cost me nothing. I would have to buy the Buddipole so
it would have to be significantly easier/better to use to make it
worth spending $400 on.

Again, thanks for all the input. I appreciate it.

Brian Lloyd
Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl
brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.791.912.8170 (fax)

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Brian Lloyd-6

Bal[un] (was: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire)

In reply to this post by w7aqk

OK, I am convinced - keep the tuner and the wire. So, that brings up a
second question: balanced vs. unbalanced.

Wire antennas that do not require a counterpoise are usually loops or
dipoles, i.e. inherently balanced even if not resonant. Most tuners
offer an unbalanced output. SGC says, just connect up the antenna.
Seems to me that a balun would improve things and keep RF off the coax
and power leads to the tuner. But how well do baluns handle huge
mismatch?

Just off the top of my head, it seems to me that the tuner at the top
of a pole with two legs sloped down, i.e. inverted-V, would make a
pretty good omni all-band antenna.

More thinking aloud.

Brian Lloyd
Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl
brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.791.912.8170 (fax)

PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
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M0XDF

Re: Bal[un] (was: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire)

Last year I used an inverted V doublet, supported by a telescopic
carbon fibre pole (DK9SQ pole <http://www.qsl.net/dk9sq> and review at http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1094)
and fed by a short length of ribbon (300 ohms I think, the clear
plastic type) via an SG237. The doublet was not cut for any particular
band and I did not use a balun or redials etc. I worked PY from
Southern France (~5000 miles) on 20m with 100W SSB from an FT-857.

I haven't tried it yet, but I plan on doing the same again with my K3,
but via a BL2 this time.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
The universe is like a safe to which there is a combination. But the
combination is locked up in the safe.
-Peter De Vries, editor, novelist (1910-1993)

On 13 May 2008, at 16:37, Brian Lloyd wrote:

> OK, I am convinced - keep the tuner and the wire. So, that brings up
> a second question: balanced vs. unbalanced.
>
> Wire antennas that do not require a counterpoise are usually loops
> or dipoles, i.e. inherently balanced even if not resonant. Most
> tuners offer an unbalanced output. SGC says, just connect up the
> antenna. Seems to me that a balun would improve things and keep RF
> off the coax and power leads to the tuner. But how well do baluns
> handle huge mismatch?
>
> Just off the top of my head, it seems to me that the tuner at the
> top of a pole with two legs sloped down, i.e. inverted-V, would make
> a pretty good omni all-band antenna.
>
> More thinking aloud.
>
> Brian Lloyd
> Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl
> brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.791.912.8170 (fax)
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> 1B6C
>
>
>
>
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Bal[un]

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

Brian,

For portable operation at low power, you will typically not experience
any ill effects from connecting the antenna directly to the tuner. But
a switchable 1:1/4:1 current balun (like the Elecraft BL2) can be used
to effectively increase the range of the tuner - try both positions and
see which one tunes more easily.

You might just want to have a balun in your portable kit just in case.

73,
Don W3FPR

Brian Lloyd wrote:

> OK, I am convinced - keep the tuner and the wire. So, that brings up a
> second question: balanced vs. unbalanced.
>
> Wire antennas that do not require a counterpoise are usually loops or
> dipoles, i.e. inherently balanced even if not resonant. Most tuners
> offer an unbalanced output. SGC says, just connect up the antenna.
> Seems to me that a balun would improve things and keep RF off the coax
> and power leads to the tuner. But how well do baluns handle huge
> mismatch?
>
> Just off the top of my head, it seems to me that the tuner at the top
> of a pole with two legs sloped down, i.e. inverted-V, would make a
> pretty good omni all-band antenna.
>
> More thinking aloud.
>
> Brian Lloyd
>

dave.wilburn

Re: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

I borrowed a friends buddipole setup for a trip to Valdosta, GA with
my K2/100. It had an 8' mast. My understanding is it perfoms
significantly better with the 16' mast. It did ok for what I was
doing. I had a 20m dipole strung low, and the buddipole did better
than that. The biggest plus for the buddipole is that it can be setup
in many different configurations and you know what you have.

If on the other hand, you know you will be able to string something
20' up in a tree and run with that, it is a different matter.

I did not play with the buddipole in the vertical configuration, but
now wish I had. I can't find the article, but the author twisted a
coil in a wire, I think about 20' high, tied a coupe of guys and 3
radials and worked stations all weekend while camping in the rv.

Dave Wilburn
K4DGW
K2/100 - S/N 5982
K3/100 - S/N 766

"For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will
never know."

Brian Lloyd wrote:

> I am heading out on a bit of a DXpedition in a month and will be
> dragging the K2 along with me. I will be in St. Kitts (V4) and Dominica
> (J7).
>
> Thinking about antennas, I was planning to take my SGC-231 tuner and
> some wire but am also looking at the Buddipole (which Elecraft sells so
> that makes it on-topic here :-) as an alternative.
>
> Would anyone care to comment on wire/tuner vs. Buddipole?
>
> --
>
> 73 de Brian, WB6RQN
> Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

n6wg

Re: Bal[un] (was: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire)

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

Hi Brian
I don't recall if you mentioned what power level you
would be using with your K2. If it is running barefoot,
without the 100w PA, you could use one of the Elecraft
switchable baluns. They switch between 1:1 and 4:1
ratios, giving you a good chance to match most balanced
feeds.

Even though the rig end of the line may be reactive, due
to impedance mismatches along the line, the switchable
balun can be used to reduce the amount of mismatch the
ATU then has to to cope with.

This makes a simple dipole with tuned feeders a nice
multiband antenna. On a given band, try both switch
positions and see which one helps the ATU make the best
match.

Good luck and 73
Bob N6WG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>
To: "elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:37 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Bal[un] (was: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire)

> OK, I am convinced - keep the tuner and the wire. So, that brings up
a
> second question: balanced vs. unbalanced.
>
> Wire antennas that do not require a counterpoise are usually loops
or
> dipoles, i.e. inherently balanced even if not resonant. Most tuners
> offer an unbalanced output. SGC says, just connect up the antenna.
> Seems to me that a balun would improve things and keep RF off the
coax
> and power leads to the tuner. But how well do baluns handle huge
> mismatch?
>
> Just off the top of my head, it seems to me that the tuner at the
top

> of a pole with two legs sloped down, i.e. inverted-V, would make a
> pretty good omni all-band antenna.
>
> More thinking aloud.
>
> Brian Lloyd
> Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl
> brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.791.912.8170 (fax)
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A

1B6C

>
>
>
>
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AC7AC

RE: Bal[un] (was: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire)

In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6

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w7aqk

Re: Bal[un] (was: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire)

In reply to this post by n6wg

The BL2 (switchable balun) will handle 250 watts! That should be enough.

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Tellefsen" <[hidden email]>
To: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>; "elecraft Reflector"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bal[un] (was: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire)

> Hi Brian
> I don't recall if you mentioned what power level you
> would be using with your K2. If it is running barefoot,
> without the 100w PA, you could use one of the Elecraft
> switchable baluns. They switch between 1:1 and 4:1
> ratios, giving you a good chance to match most balanced
> feeds.
>
> Even though the rig end of the line may be reactive, due
> to impedance mismatches along the line, the switchable
> balun can be used to reduce the amount of mismatch the
> ATU then has to to cope with.
>
> This makes a simple dipole with tuned feeders a nice
> multiband antenna. On a given band, try both switch
> positions and see which one helps the ATU make the best
> match.
>
> Good luck and 73
> Bob N6WG
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <[hidden email]>
> To: "elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:37 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Bal[un] (was: Buddipole vs. tuner and wire)
>
>
>> OK, I am convinced - keep the tuner and the wire. So, that brings up
> a
>> second question: balanced vs. unbalanced.
>>
>> Wire antennas that do not require a counterpoise are usually loops
> or
>> dipoles, i.e. inherently balanced even if not resonant. Most tuners
>> offer an unbalanced output. SGC says, just connect up the antenna.
>> Seems to me that a balun would improve things and keep RF off the
> coax
>> and power leads to the tuner. But how well do baluns handle huge
>> mismatch?
>>
>> Just off the top of my head, it seems to me that the tuner at the
> top
>> of a pole with two legs sloped down, i.e. inverted-V, would make a
>> pretty good omni all-band antenna.
>>
>> More thinking aloud.
>>
>> Brian Lloyd
>> Granite Bay Montessori School 9330 Sierra College Bl
>> brian AT gbmontessori DOT com Roseville, CA 95661
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.791.912.8170 (fax)
>>
>> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> 1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
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