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Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

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Phil Kane-2

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

On 11/26/2010 1:03 PM, Stewart wrote:

> Can only speak as I find Phil...
>
> The UK TV licence includes a clause which says that the owner of
> the television apparatus shall not permit it to cause
> interference.

> If that was enforced, then all TV manufacturers would have to
> comply with the regulations, or have no sales in the UK...

It's interesting to see that today's UK brother agency (OFCOM) has
the same attitude as today's FCC about (non)enforcement.

-- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
(Retired FCC District Director)
(Today's FCC is not -my- FCC)
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

It is a shame that there is not more FCC enforcement directed at
manufacturers rather than at consumers.
Have you ever tried to convince a consumer that his expensive TV is
producing radiation that is interfering with your ham radio? Talk about
getting that "deer in the headlights" stare!
The worst thing that the FCC could have done is regulate the consumer
(don't use it if it causes interference). Consumers just cannot believe
that anything they have purchased would create a problem for others.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/26/2010 5:00 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 11/26/2010 1:03 PM, Stewart wrote:
>
>> Can only speak as I find Phil...
>>
>> The UK TV licence includes a clause which says that the owner of
>> the television apparatus shall not permit it to cause
>> interference.
>> If that was enforced, then all TV manufacturers would have to
>> comply with the regulations, or have no sales in the UK...
> It's interesting to see that today's UK brother agency (OFCOM) has
> the same attitude as today's FCC about (non)enforcement.
>
> -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
> (Retired FCC District Director)
> (Today's FCC is not -my- FCC)
>

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Bob Nielsen-2

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by Phil Daniells, GJ4CBQ

I had a Vizio 46" plasma TV which seemed to be pretty quiet. It was less than 10 feet from my K2 and TS-570 (my vertical antenna is about 60 feet away). Unfortunately it died after about 4 years and was replaced by a LCD model. Vizio no longer makes plasma sets.

Bob, N7XY

On Nov 26, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Phil Daniells, GJ4CBQ wrote:

> Panasonic stuff isn't all bad!
>
> We have two Panasonic LCD TV's here. Both have very good pictures and
> neither is a QRM generator.
>
> Whilst I understand the motivation to boycott their products, I feel
> that giving the vote of confidence to their RF quiet products in
> preference to their heavily promoted, noisy, devices still sends an
> appropriate message to Panasonic.
>
> A few months back their website was running an article that actively
> encouraged consumers to purchase Plasma instead of LCD TV's by massively
> downplaying the drawbacks of Plasma. Strangely there was no mention of QRM!
>
> I guess you might know this, Stewart. Are there ANY quiet Plasma TV's
> out there?
>
> To get back vaguely on topic, the combination of K3 and LP-Pan displays
> a very distinctive signature for Plasma TV's. Fortunately there aren't
> too many of them round here, they're not too loud and they're rarely all
> on at the same time. Rather than filtering, I find the best defence is
> the MFJ-1025. It cancels the Plasma QRM every time.
>
> 73,
>
> Phil, GJ4CBQ.
>
>
>
> On 26/11/2010 09:37, Stewart wrote:
>>
>> As I write this mail I am looking at the last Panasonic product in this house, a cordless phone.
>> When that has gone Kaput, that's it...No more Panasonic.
>>
>
>> 73
>> Stewart G3RXQ
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k6dgw

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On 11/26/2010 2:20 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> It is a shame that there is not more FCC enforcement directed at
> manufacturers rather than at consumers.
> Have you ever tried to convince a consumer that his expensive TV is
> producing radiation that is interfering with your ham radio? Talk about
> getting that "deer in the headlights" stare!
> The worst thing that the FCC could have done is regulate the consumer
> (don't use it if it causes interference). Consumers just cannot believe
> that anything they have purchased would create a problem for others.

As the world becomes more and more electronic, this is going to continue
to increase as a problem, and not just interference to us. In the 50's
TV manufacturers experimented with a 21 MHz IF, a monumentally stupid
choice. During the "BPL Scare," I modeled the power distribution which
passes over our property and my antenna and found that on all bands
except 160, the coupling loss between my antenna and the power line was
in the -35 dB range. Loss was less on 160 since the lines and antenna
were well withing the near fields.

A little arithmetic suggested that, at 1KW [a legal power for me] inside
the ham bands, my neighbor's BPL box would surely hear me. I have no
idea how I'd maintain a civil relationship with them when I insisted it
is their problem not mine. I've always loved the FCC's comments in rule
making that the "Amateur can mitigate interference to non-licensed
services by reorienting the antenna." Like, if I want to work ZL8X, I'm
going to point my antenna at 090 instead of 270 to avoid RFI?

Incidentally, FWIW I host the neighborhood wireless RAP at the top of my
tower, just below the tribander, in return for free internet. My old
TS-850 occasionally caused it to reset at 1KW on 15m. The K3 has never
done so. ??

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
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ab2tc

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by ab2tc

Hello again again,

Hi again,

When I came across this thread, I was somewhat puzzled, as I didn't think that there was this imminent threat of an onslaught of interference from plasma displays. A little bit of Google research and talk with people in the know bears out that the plasma technology is indeed, if anything, losing ground to the LCD technology which is cheaper and rapidly catching up in display quality. So I don't think there is really a big threat here. It's too bad that there are still neighborhoods affected by these displays and the fact that they are allowed to be sold at all, in spite of the fact that they cause incurable interference problems.

AB2TC - Knut

ab2tc wrote

Don't get me wrong Julian, I would make the same choice as you given the circumstances. It's just that the circumstances shouldn't be so. This whole thing with allowing devices that will for sure interfere and then leave it to the affected parties to resolve the problems when the inevitable interference occurs is a copout by regulatory agencies. This is the Part 95 clause in the USA and should never have happened. I am still praising and enjoying my relative freedom of interference. My neighborhood is a moderately densely populated suburban one with above ground utilities but no industrial sites within miles.

AB2TC - Knut

Julian, G4ILO wrote

<snip>
Believe me, if you have S9+20 interference without one of these devices, you put up with it. Yep, I've looked inside, build quality is terrible, SMD devices up on end and the rest of it. Signal path unnecessarily long pieces of hookup wire from the 259s to the PCB. It's hooked in via the KXV3 RX connectors so at least the TX signal doesn't go through it. But it works (and doesn't need much retuning as you change frequency.) 20m would be unusable without it, so the effect on blocking and IMD performance is unimportant, the alternative is QRT. Which would you choose?

VK7JB

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by Ron Gould

Well, 80% of my operating time is spent in what seems like electromagnetic hell. The irony is that I live in a rural area at the end of the earth. I have only 3 neighbours within a 4km radius. One of them has a plasma screen TV. Another has something else, perhaps an arcing thermostat or fluoro light, which adds to the cacophony which dances across the whole of my operating spectrum, from 80 to 10m. The din varies in intensity and duration. Sometimes it's not there and then, for a brief time, I enjoy the silence.

I was about to abandon the hobby, but some reading led me to the "noise cancellers". I had learnt very early on that "noise blankers" and DSP were feeble weapons against the particular noise mix at my QTH. So I first bought the MJF 1026 because I could get it locally and it was inexpensive. I experiemented with many different noise antennas. It was OK, but very inconsistent in its effect. On a good day, it reduced the racket, but the nulls were elusive and the time I spent using it merely amplified my frustrations. I took it apart one day and was shocked. I boxed it up, put it in a cupboard and ordered an ANC-4. My hopes weren't high, but the future of my ham radio career depended on finding a solution. So the ANC-4 arrived from across the Pacific- sturdily designed, heavy, and well crafted inside and out. I pluged it in, attached the noise antenna, turned it on and for the first time, killed the noise. On all bands, quickly and without frustration. S7 din, obliterating everything, consistently and predictably reduced to hush.

This one piece of equipment has saved the hobby for me. At my location and with my particular noise blend, it has worked a treat and much, much more effectively than the first noise canceller I tried. Others have reported exactly the converse experience - neither unit having any effect, or the MFJ unit giving superior results. For all the science involved, noise busting with this equipment is inexact and unpredictable.

Of course, I'd rather not have to use this black box at all. It reduces received signal strength noticably, but then the alternative is buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz covering everything. And yes, I'm sure it's degrading my IMD and threatening the purity of any number of other parameters of my transmitted signal. But again, the option is nothing at all. This afternoon, I just put the 94th country in my log: all were caught on SSB phone, with 100 Watts and a wire antenna sitting here under my blanket of noise. I enjoy this hobby far too much to let it go.

Borrow an ANC-4 and see what it'll do for you. If it doesn't work, then try the MFJ 1026. Just don't give up.

73,

John
VK7JB

Johnny Siu

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

I used ANC in the past. It was good.

Sent from my iPhone 4

VK7JB <[hidden email]> 於 2010年11月27日下午2:18 寫道：

>
> Well, 80% of my operating time is spent in what seems like electromagnetic
> hell. The irony is that I live in a rural area at the end of the earth. I
> have only 3 neighbours within a 4km radius. One of them has a plasma screen
> TV. Another has something else, perhaps an arcing thermostat or fluoro
> light, which adds to the cacophony which dances across the whole of my
> operating spectrum, from 80 to 10m. The din varies in intensity and
> duration. Sometimes it's not there and then, for a brief time, I enjoy the
> silence.
>
> I was about to abandon the hobby, but some reading led me to the "noise
> cancellers". I had learnt very early on that "noise blankers" and DSP were
> feeble weapons against the particular noise mix at my QTH. So I first
> bought the MJF 1026 because I could get it locally and it was inexpensive.
> I experiemented with many different noise antennas. It was OK, but very
> inconsistent in its effect. On a good day, it reduced the racket, but the
> nulls were elusive and the time I spent using it merely amplified my
> frustrations. I took it apart one day and was shocked. I boxed it up, put
> it in a cupboard and ordered an ANC-4. My hopes weren't high, but the
> future of my ham radio career depended on finding a solution. So the ANC-4
> arrived from across the Pacific- sturdily designed, heavy, and well crafted
> inside and out. I pluged it in, attached the noise antenna, turned it on
> and for the first time, killed the noise. On all bands, quickly and without
> frustration. S7 din, obliterating everything, consistently and predictably
> reduced to hush.
>
> This one piece of equipment has saved the hobby for me. At my location and
> with my particular noise blend, it has worked a treat and much, much more
> effectively than the first noise canceller I tried. Others have reported
> exactly the converse experience - neither unit having any effect, or the MFJ
> unit giving superior results. For all the science involved, noise busting
> with this equipment is inexact and unpredictable.
>
> Of course, I'd rather not have to use this black box at all. It reduces
> received signal strength noticably, but then the alternative is
> buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz covering everything. And yes, I'm sure it's degrading my
> IMD and threatening the purity of any number of other parameters of my
> transmitted signal. But again, the option is nothing at all. This
> afternoon, I just put the 94th country in my log: all were caught on SSB
> phone, with 100 Watts and a wire antenna sitting here under my blanket of
> noise. I enjoy this hobby far too much to let it go.
>
> Borrow an ANC-4 and see what it'll do for you. If it doesn't work, then try
> the MFJ 1026. Just don't give up.
>
> 73,
>
> John
> VK7JB
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Plasma-TV-Noise-any-ideas-on-how-to-filter-it-out-tp5775346p5779093.html
> Sent from the [HAM] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Julian, G4ILO

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2

Phil Kane-2 wrote

On 11/26/2010 1:03 PM, Stewart wrote:

It's interesting to see that today's UK brother agency (OFCOM) has
the same attitude as today's FCC about (non)enforcement.

Here, as in the US I'm sure, it all comes down to money. The resources aren't there to enforce the rules, and hams are a small minority group with no political clout. With all the public service cuts it can only get worse. Companies are importing goods from China that are actually dangerous, with fake CE marks (there was a news item about it this morning.)

Using the law to force the authorities to enforce compliance is impossible because of high legal fees. The RSGB wanted to mount a legal challenge to Ofcom's failure to act on the problem of PLT devices and was informed it would cost £200,000 just to get started, about 10 times the amount they'd managed to raise by appeal.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out. [Moderator's note]

Administrator

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Folks, we are getting further off-topic as this thread morphs into a regulatory and government/manufacturer discussion. Please end that portion and just focus on technical methods to remedy interference.

Also, take note, when there are a very large number of postings on any thread, as there are on this one, please resist the urge to post unless really adding significant info to the discussion. Me-too and other repetitive postings are strongly discouraged in the interest of limiting email overload for other readers. If this thread continues at the current level of postings it will be closed soon.

73,
Eric
Elecraft List Modulator

www.elecraft.com
_..._

On Nov 26, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It is a shame that there is not more FCC enforcement directed at
> manufacturers rather than at consumers.
> Have you ever tried to convince a consumer that his expensive TV is
> producing radiation that is interfering with your ham radio? Talk about
> getting that "deer in the headlights" stare!
> The worst thing that the FCC could have done is regulate the consumer
> (don't use it if it causes interference). Consumers just cannot believe
> that anything they have purchased would create a problem for others.
______________________________________________________________
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ab2tc

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out. [Moderator's note]

Hi,

I am sorry Eric but I need to correct a mistake of mine. I was referring to FCC Part 95 in a previous post. As pointed out to me in a private E-mail to me this should be Part 15. This is the regulation that enables manufacturers to ship anything they want as long as they plaster this message on the back of the product:

Note: This equipment has been tested and found to comply with the limits for a Class B digital device, pursuant to part 15 of the FCC Rules. These limits are designed to provide reasonable protection against harmful interference in a residential installation. This equipment generates, uses and can radiate radio frequency energy and, if not installed and used in accordance with the instructions, may cause harmful interference to radio communications. However, there is no guarantee that interference will not occur in a particular installation. If this equipment does cause harmful interference to radio or television reception, which can be determined by turning the equipment off and on, the user is encouraged to try to correct the interference by one or more of the following measures:

Reorient or relocate the receiving antenna.
Increase the separation between the equipment and receiver.
Connect the equipment into an outlet on a circuit different from that to which the receiver is connected.
Consult the dealer or an experienced radio/TV technician for help.
Modifications not expressly approved by the manufacturer could void the user's authority to operated the equipment under FCC rules.

I promise to be quiet on this particular beef of mine now. :-)

AB2TC - Knut

Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote

Folks, we are getting further off-topic as this thread morphs into a regulatory and government/manufacturer discussion. Please end that portion and just focus on technical methods to remedy interference.

Also, take note, when there are a very large number of postings on any thread, as there are on this one, please resist the urge to post unless really adding significant info to the discussion. Me-too and other repetitive postings are strongly discouraged in the interest of limiting email overload for other readers. If this thread continues at the current level of postings it will be closed soon.

73,
Eric
Elecraft List Modulator

www.elecraft.com
_..._

snip>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out. [Moderator's note]

>As pointed out to me in a private E-mail to me this should be
> Part 15. This is the regulation that enables manufacturers
> to ship anything they want as long as they plaster this message
> on the back of the product:

Part 15 does not allow manufacturers to intentionally ship anything
that radiates excessive EMI. All microprocessor based consumer
equipment is required to be tested/pass for both radiated and
conducted EMI. This is generally done with prototype production
equipment. The "Part 15 statement" does not relieve the owner and
manufacturer from responsibility for the radiation and the FCC
should get involved with complaints about interference to licensed
stations.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 11/27/2010 5:13 PM, ab2tc wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I am sorry Eric but I need to correct a mistake of mine. I was referring to
> FCC Part 95 in a previous post. As pointed out to me in a private E-mail to
> me this should be Part 15. This is the regulation that enables manufacturers
> to ship anything they want as long as they plaster this message on the back
> of the product:
>
> Note: This equipment has been tested and found to comply with the limits
> for a Class B digital device, pursuant to part 15 of the FCC Rules. These
> limits are designed to provide reasonable protection against harmful
> interference in a residential installation. This equipment generates, uses
> and can radiate radio frequency energy and, if not installed and used in
> accordance with the instructions, may cause harmful interference to radio
> communications. However, there is no guarantee that interference will not
> occur in a particular installation. If this equipment does cause harmful
> interference to radio or television reception, which can be determined by
> turning the equipment off and on, the user is encouraged to try to correct
> the interference by one or more of the following measures:
>
> Reorient or relocate the receiving antenna.
> Increase the separation between the equipment and receiver.
> Connect the equipment into an outlet on a circuit different from that to
> which the receiver is connected.
> Consult the dealer or an experienced radio/TV technician for help.
> Modifications not expressly approved by the manufacturer could void the
> user's authority to operated the equipment under FCC rules.
>
> I promise to be quiet on this particular beef of mine now. :-)
>
> AB2TC - Knut
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>
>> Folks, we are getting further off-topic as this thread morphs into a
>> regulatory and government/manufacturer discussion. Please end that portion
>> and just focus on technical methods to remedy interference.
>>
>> Also, take note, when there are a very large number of postings on any
>> thread, as there are on this one, please resist the urge to post unless
>> really adding significant info to the discussion. Me-too and other
>> repetitive postings are strongly discouraged in the interest of limiting
>> email overload for other readers. If this thread continues at the current
>> level of postings it will be closed soon.
>>
>> 73,
>> Eric
>> Elecraft List Modulator
>>
>> www.elecraft.com
>> _..._
>>
>> snip>
>>
>

N5GE

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by Stewart Baker

I don't know what plasma TV RFI signatures look like, but here is something that
shows up every morning at about 08:00 local time and stays with me until about
22:30 every evening here in Arlington, TX. I can't work 30m in the day time
unless the signals are above S-7 :o(

http://www.n5ge.com/images/10100_10150_RFI_at%20N5GE.bmp

Any one have an idea what it is? It completely covers the 30m band plus above
and below. The signal shown in the image. It doesn't appear on any other
bands.

73,

Tom Childers
Radio Amateur N5GE
Licensed since 1976
QCWA Member 35102
ARRL Life Member

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:37:04 GMT, Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:

>In the UK there have been many complaints about RFI from Panasonic Plasma TV's.
>Some people have had success in getting the problem resolved, generally by the entire
>screen assembly being changed out. Others have received the same sort of response as you.
>Luckily my neighbour who had a very noisy one recently moved away.
>
[snip]

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Stephen Prior

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Hi Tom

It would be useful to see what the waterfall looks like too as you can spot
the time varying nature of it then. I see some amazing waterfall patterns
from various mystery sources.

73 Stephen G4SJP

On 28/11/2010 04:39, "Amateur Radio Operator N5GE" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I don't know what plasma TV RFI signatures look like, but here is something
> that
> shows up every morning at about 08:00 local time and stays with me until about
> 22:30 every evening here in Arlington, TX. I can't work 30m in the day time
> unless the signals are above S-7 :o(
>
> http://www.n5ge.com/images/10100_10150_RFI_at%20N5GE.bmp
>
> Any one have an idea what it is? It completely covers the 30m band plus above
> and below. The signal shown in the image. It doesn't appear on any other
> bands.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom Childers
> Radio Amateur N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> QCWA Member 35102
> ARRL Life Member
>
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:37:04 GMT, Stewart <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> In the UK there have been many complaints about RFI from Panasonic Plasma
>> TV's.
>> Some people have had success in getting the problem resolved, generally by
>> the entire
>> screen assembly being changed out. Others have received the same sort of
>> response as you.
>> Luckily my neighbour who had a very noisy one recently moved away.
>>
> [snip]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Jack Brabham KZ5A

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by N5GE

I wonder if Plasma TV QRM interferes with Civil/Emergency
Communications like fire, police, HS, or FAA?

That would be a more effective point with neighbors than "you are
interfering with my hobby".

?????

73 Jack KZ5A

On 11/27/2010 10:39 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

> I don't know what plasma TV RFI signatures look like, but here is something that
> shows up every morning at about 08:00 local time and stays with me until about
> 22:30 every evening here in Arlington, TX. I can't work 30m in the day time
> unless the signals are above S-7 :o(
>
> http://www.n5ge.com/images/10100_10150_RFI_at%20N5GE.bmp
>
> Any one have an idea what it is? It completely covers the 30m band plus above
> and below. The signal shown in the image. It doesn't appear on any other
> bands.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom Childers
> Radio Amateur N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> QCWA Member 35102
> ARRL Life Member
>
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:37:04 GMT, Stewart<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> In the UK there have been many complaints about RFI from Panasonic Plasma TV's.
>> Some people have had success in getting the problem resolved, generally by the entire
>> screen assembly being changed out. Others have received the same sort of response as you.
>> Luckily my neighbour who had a very noisy one recently moved away.
>>
> [snip]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

AC7AC

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

ab2tc

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out. [Moderator's note]

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I am aware of that but there is no requirement and no testing below 30MHz. Another correction: The statement is only required in the operator's manual.

AB2TC - Knut

Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote

>As pointed out to me in a private E-mail to me this should be
> Part 15. This is the regulation that enables manufacturers
> to ship anything they want as long as they plaster this message
> on the back of the product:

Part 15 does not allow manufacturers to intentionally ship anything
that radiates excessive EMI. All microprocessor based consumer
equipment is required to be tested/pass for both radiated and
conducted EMI. This is generally done with prototype production
equipment. The "Part 15 statement" does not relieve the owner and
manufacturer from responsibility for the radiation and the FCC
should get involved with complaints about interference to licensed
stations.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

<snip>

S Sacco

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out. [Moderator's note]

Loved my K3 on 160M this contest weekend.

Obviously, "160M" and "QRN" go hand in hand, and there was plenty of
it, mostly thanks to my local power company. I did notice, on my
awesome P3, a pronounced, gently-shaped rise in noise just below 1.8
MHz. It was 20-30dB louder than the average -115dB noise level. Sure
glad it wasn't in-band.

EMI problems are everywhere. Maybe someone can help the EPA:

<http://www.interferencetechnology.com/no_cache/technologies/antennas/contracts-awards/contracts-awards-from-home/article/epa-needs-help-with-emi-problem.html>

EPA Needs Help with EMI Problem

02/08/08 10:39 AM

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has posted a request for
quote on the Federal Business Opportunities (FBO) Web site looking to
purchase an Electromagnetic Field Compensation System. The agency
says the system is needed for the suppression of EMI which is limiting
the use of a newly purchased scanning electron microscope. To read
the solicitation and learn more about this opportunity visit the FBO
web site.

73,
Steve
NN4X

On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:23 AM, ab2tc <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I am aware of that but there is no requirement and no testing below 30MHz.
> Another correction: The statement is only required in the operator's manual.
>
> AB2TC - Knut
>
>
> Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>As pointed out to me in a private E-mail to me this should be
>> > Part 15. This is the regulation that enables manufacturers
>>> to ship anything they want as long as they plaster this message
>> > on the back of the product:
>>
>> Part 15 does not allow manufacturers to intentionally ship anything
>> that radiates excessive EMI. All microprocessor based consumer
>> equipment is required to be tested/pass for both radiated and
>> conducted EMI. This is generally done with prototype production
>> equipment. The "Part 15 statement" does not relieve the owner and
>> manufacturer from responsibility for the radiation and the FCC
>> should get involved with complaints about interference to licensed
>> stations.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Plasma-TV-Noise-any-ideas-on-how-to-filter-it-out-tp5775346p5781922.html
> Sent from the [HAM] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Phil Kane-2

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by AC7AC

On 11/28/2010 8:16 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Not in the USA AFAIK. Emergency services are all VHF/UHF now as
> are domestic aircraft communications. Even commercial shipping
> in coastal waters is VHF now.

FYI - there are several HF nets used for EmComm - some for MARS
(Elecraft is one of the rigs of choice) and National Guard plus
a HF net licensed to the state with ALE (automatic link exchange)
transceivers in those county EOCs who wish to buy them.

-- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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KD8NNU

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

In reply to this post by Ron Gould

Update on my Plasma TV noise.

I drove thru Cleveland yesterday and purchased a timewave ANC-4 and set
it uptoday.

Is it perfect? No

Does it work? Yes, it does enough nulling of the noise that I can use
the K3 with my TV on. It makes a significant difference in my receive.

It would be interesting to also try a MFJ 1026 but I went this way
instead.

Thanks
KD8NNU
Don

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Steve Ellington

Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Glad to hear it helped. I could have used one tonight on 80m!
Plasma TVs are unique. The gas pixels are triggered by high voltage. This
means there are thousands of conductors, high voltage and high current right
on the screen. This makes a very nice transmitter that can broadcast for
blocks.
We should get the word out about these somehow. Plasma TVs have many
disadvantages over the LCD types including about 50% more power consumption,
shorter life, screen burn-in problems, weigh more, produce a huge amount of
heat, higher electric bills etc. Newer LCD/LED models are just as good now
but they still offer plasma TVs in the stores.
OH....I've seen a few post about concerns about XRAY radiation from plasma
TVs. maybe health concerns would encourage folks to avoid them?

Steve N4LQ

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

> Update on my Plasma TV noise.
>
> I drove thru Cleveland yesterday and purchased a timewave ANC-4 and set
> it uptoday.
>
> Is it perfect? No
>
> Does it work? Yes, it does enough nulling of the noise that I can use
> the K3 with my TV on. It makes a significant difference in my receive.
>
> It would be interesting to also try a MFJ 1026 but I went this way
> instead.
>
> Thanks
> KD8NNU
> Don
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html