Please do a KPA1500

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Please do a KPA1500

fserota
Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your decision to produce a KPA 1500. You could use the front end of the KPA500 as a controller?

Fred Serota, K3BHX
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Dean L
Fred
500w 》1500 w -----It's less than an S-unit increase in signal and makes
your power meter spin fast.
Just putting it into perspective ...I'm sure you already knew this.
Happy New Year/73
Dean K2WW

On Dec 30, 2016 12:36 PM, "Fredric Serota" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the
> quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your
> decision to produce a KPA 1500. You could use the front end of the KPA500
> as a controller?
>
> Fred Serota, K3BHX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Jim Brown-10
On Fri,12/30/2016 10:27 AM, Dean L wrote:
> 500w 》1500 w -----It's less than an S-unit increase in signal

Anyone who has tried to work a station who doesn't hear well because of
a high noise level, or with a poor signal path, knows that even 1 or 2
dB can be the difference between making a QSO or not. I have experienced
this MANY times. On 160M, the band is often full from 1,800 to above
1,900 kHz during contests, and most amps need to be re-tuned to get full
output when moving from one end to the other. If I got lazy and failed
to do that, my 1.5 kW amp might be down to 1 kW or so, That's less than
2dB, but there have been times when re-tuning would get the other
station to hear me when he hadn't responded to multiple calls.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Charlie T, K3ICH
In reply to this post by Dean L
If you're being heard at 20 dB over S9 when running one kilowatt, you'll still be S5 at 100 milliwatts!

That said, if you're gonna run an amp, why not go for max legal?

73, Charlie k3ICH



-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dean L
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2016 1:28 PM
To: Elecraft Mail List <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Please do a KPA1500

Fred
500w 》1500 w -----It's less than an S-unit increase in signal and makes your power meter spin fast.
Just putting it into perspective ...I'm sure you already knew this.
Happy New Year/73
Dean K2WW



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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Guy Olinger K2AV
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
On Dec 30, 2016 12:36 PM, "Fredric Serota" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the
> quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your
> decision to produce a KPA 1500.

Without debating how much use is had from a 5 dB increase in signal
strength (a lot), the real reason Elecraft did not do a 1500 watt amp
is all business and marketing. Elecraft is a small business and as
such does not have the financial "mass" to absorb jabs in the bank
balance from the marketplace that do not doubly pay for the research
and development.

There is a breaking point for ham-priced transistor amp equipment
somewhere beyond 500 watts and before 1500 that has to do with
reliability of components at those stress levels, and the cost of
components and circuits to control the amp's response to the
unbelievably bad treatment afforded amps by some purchasers.

If this were not true, you would have seen dozens of 2K transistor
equivalents to the likes of the Alpha 9500 and 8410, with which you
can actually put a brick on the key and let it run at 1500 watts out
indefinitely or until you lose your nerve.

I'm sure the military has stuff, but then the military has specs and
bidding, and they are willing to pay what it REALLY costs for that
layer of reliability.

Hams are unwilling to pay mil-spec prices, and Big E. knows it. They
also know that a major failure of an expensively developed product
with a lot of warranty returns can put a small business into chapter
11.

Wayne & Co have put out a lot of leading edge products, kept their
business rolling through the Great Recession, and embarassed the fool
out of Yakencom for the better part of a decade, kicking the ham
equipment industry into a new level of performance where they really
didn't want to go.

When Wayne *doesn't* do something that gets repeated requests, there
is a reason. I trust his judgement, because he has earned that.

I particularly do not want them to go out of business and find myself
stuck with Yakencom again.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by fserota
I kinda like the remote amp thought; My wife loves the heat and I like it cool.

I could put the amp in her craft room and let her enjoy the extra heat while my shack stays cooler.

      From: Fredric Serota <[hidden email]>
 To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Friday, December 30, 2016 12:35 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Please do a KPA1500
   
Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your decision to produce a KPA 1500. You could use the front end of the KPA500 as a controller?

Fred Serota, K3BHX
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

HK3J
In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV
I agree. German HK3J

El vie., 30 dic. 2016 3:18 p. m., Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>
escribió:

> On Dec 30, 2016 12:36 PM, "Fredric Serota" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the
> > quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your
> > decision to produce a KPA 1500.
>
> Without debating how much use is had from a 5 dB increase in signal
> strength (a lot), the real reason Elecraft did not do a 1500 watt amp
> is all business and marketing. Elecraft is a small business and as
> such does not have the financial "mass" to absorb jabs in the bank
> balance from the marketplace that do not doubly pay for the research
> and development.
>
> There is a breaking point for ham-priced transistor amp equipment
> somewhere beyond 500 watts and before 1500 that has to do with
> reliability of components at those stress levels, and the cost of
> components and circuits to control the amp's response to the
> unbelievably bad treatment afforded amps by some purchasers.
>
> If this were not true, you would have seen dozens of 2K transistor
> equivalents to the likes of the Alpha 9500 and 8410, with which you
> can actually put a brick on the key and let it run at 1500 watts out
> indefinitely or until you lose your nerve.
>
> I'm sure the military has stuff, but then the military has specs and
> bidding, and they are willing to pay what it REALLY costs for that
> layer of reliability.
>
> Hams are unwilling to pay mil-spec prices, and Big E. knows it. They
> also know that a major failure of an expensively developed product
> with a lot of warranty returns can put a small business into chapter
> 11.
>
> Wayne & Co have put out a lot of leading edge products, kept their
> business rolling through the Great Recession, and embarassed the fool
> out of Yakencom for the better part of a decade, kicking the ham
> equipment industry into a new level of performance where they really
> didn't want to go.
>
> When Wayne *doesn't* do something that gets repeated requests, there
> is a reason. I trust his judgement, because he has earned that.
>
> I particularly do not want them to go out of business and find myself
> stuck with Yakencom again.
>
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Ken G Kopp
In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV
I have no interest in a 1 or 1.5 KW Amp.

Guy (K2AV) sums it up nicely.

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP

On Dec 30, 2016 1:18 PM, "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Dec 30, 2016 12:36 PM, "Fredric Serota" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the
> > quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your
> > decision to produce a KPA 1500.
>
> Without debating how much use is had from a 5 dB increase in signal
> strength (a lot), the real reason Elecraft did not do a 1500 watt amp
> is all business and marketing. Elecraft is a small business and as
> such does not have the financial "mass" to absorb jabs in the bank
> balance from the marketplace that do not doubly pay for the research
> and development.
>
> There is a breaking point for ham-priced transistor amp equipment
> somewhere beyond 500 watts and before 1500 that has to do with
> reliability of components at those stress levels, and the cost of
> components and circuits to control the amp's response to the
> unbelievably bad treatment afforded amps by some purchasers.
>
> If this were not true, you would have seen dozens of 2K transistor
> equivalents to the likes of the Alpha 9500 and 8410, with which you
> can actually put a brick on the key and let it run at 1500 watts out
> indefinitely or until you lose your nerve.
>
> I'm sure the military has stuff, but then the military has specs and
> bidding, and they are willing to pay what it REALLY costs for that
> layer of reliability.
>
> Hams are unwilling to pay mil-spec prices, and Big E. knows it. They
> also know that a major failure of an expensively developed product
> with a lot of warranty returns can put a small business into chapter
> 11.
>
> Wayne & Co have put out a lot of leading edge products, kept their
> business rolling through the Great Recession, and embarassed the fool
> out of Yakencom for the better part of a decade, kicking the ham
> equipment industry into a new level of performance where they really
> didn't want to go.
>
> When Wayne *doesn't* do something that gets repeated requests, there
> is a reason. I trust his judgement, because he has earned that.
>
> I particularly do not want them to go out of business and find myself
> stuck with Yakencom again.
>
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ
Administrator
In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV
Folks, we have not ever formally said we would never do a 1500W amp. We have
said at times in the past that we were not doing one at that time, but we never
rule anything out.

We're always looking for good suggestions and marketing input on what we should
do in the future.

73,
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 12/30/2016 12:16 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> On Dec 30, 2016 12:36 PM, "Fredric Serota" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the
>> quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your
>> decision to produce a KPA 1500.
> Without debating how much use is had from a 5 dB increase in signal
> strength (a lot), the real reason Elecraft did not do a 1500 watt amp
> is all business and marketing. Elecraft is a small business and as
> such does not have the financial "mass" to absorb jabs in the bank
> balance from the marketplace that do not doubly pay for the research
> and development.
>
> There is a breaking point for ham-priced transistor amp equipment
> somewhere beyond 500 watts and before 1500 that has to do with
> reliability of components at those stress levels, and the cost of
> components and circuits to control the amp's response to the
> unbelievably bad treatment afforded amps by some purchasers.
>
> If this were not true, you would have seen dozens of 2K transistor
> equivalents to the likes of the Alpha 9500 and 8410, with which you
> can actually put a brick on the key and let it run at 1500 watts out
> indefinitely or until you lose your nerve.
>
> I'm sure the military has stuff, but then the military has specs and
> bidding, and they are willing to pay what it REALLY costs for that
> layer of reliability.
>
> Hams are unwilling to pay mil-spec prices, and Big E. knows it. They
> also know that a major failure of an expensively developed product
> with a lot of warranty returns can put a small business into chapter
> 11.
>
> Wayne & Co have put out a lot of leading edge products, kept their
> business rolling through the Great Recession, and embarassed the fool
> out of Yakencom for the better part of a decade, kicking the ham
> equipment industry into a new level of performance where they really
> didn't want to go.
>
> When Wayne *doesn't* do something that gets repeated requests, there
> is a reason. I trust his judgement, because he has earned that.
>
> I particularly do not want them to go out of business and find myself
> stuck with Yakencom again.
>
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Michael Walker
In reply to this post by Dean L
That will be a lot of money for only an extra S unit (barely). Just over a 4db gain off the top of my head.

It is the first 500 W that count.

Mike va3mw



> On Dec 30, 2016, at 1:27 PM, Dean L <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Fred
> 500w 》1500 w -----It's less than an S-unit increase in signal and makes
> your power meter spin fast.
> Just putting it into perspective ...I'm sure you already knew this.
> Happy New Year/73
> Dean K2WW
>
>> On Dec 30, 2016 12:36 PM, "Fredric Serota" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the
>> quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your
>> decision to produce a KPA 1500. You could use the front end of the KPA500
>> as a controller?
>>
>> Fred Serota, K3BHX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>>
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

N2TK
During mediocre conditions there has been more than once on 80 and 160M the DX could not quite get my call correct with the KPA500. Once the Acom 2000A timed out they had no trouble copying my call. Most of the time I operate the K3 barefoot. When I need more oomph I turn on the KPA500. If conditions are not good I turn on the Acom. There are times the difference between 600W and 1500W can make the difference between a QSO and no QSO. It would be nice to have a 1500W S-S amp in the basement alongside the KPA500. Any amp I would buy needs to be able to be controlled remotely like the KPA500 and the Acom. The only real advantage to me switching from a tube to a solid-state amp would be the timeout thing. During a contest and when a DXpedition is going, then I just leave the Acom on. No big thing letting it sit there idling.

73 and HNY
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike va3mw
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2016 6:09 PM
To: Dean L <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Mail List <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Please do a KPA1500

That will be a lot of money for only an extra S unit (barely). Just over a 4db gain off the top of my head.

It is the first 500 W that count.

Mike va3mw



> On Dec 30, 2016, at 1:27 PM, Dean L <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Fred
> 500w 》1500 w -----It's less than an S-unit increase in signal and
> makes your power meter spin fast.
> Just putting it into perspective ...I'm sure you already knew this.
> Happy New Year/73
> Dean K2WW
>
>> On Dec 30, 2016 12:36 PM, "Fredric Serota" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the
>> quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your
>> decision to produce a KPA 1500. You could use the front end of the
>> KPA500 as a controller?
>>
>> Fred Serota, K3BHX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Charlie T, K3ICH
I can tell you, I have a lot of 50 MHz DX in the log that a home brew 4CX-1000A made possible.

Unlike HF DXing, some six meter ES & F2 openings last only a few minutes, and the early bird + big amp, gets the proverbial worm.

I am definitely NOT opposed to running high power.

My only piece of logic is that if you're going to go to the trouble and expense of running an amp, go for legal limit.
Agreed, SS legal limit amps are pricey, but a legal limit tube amp is much easier on the radio budget.

Yeah, I know 500 watts will help, but as we all agree, 1500 will do it when 500 won't.

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2016 6:39 PM
To: 'Mike va3mw' <[hidden email]>
Cc: 'Elecraft Mail List' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Please do a KPA1500

During mediocre conditions there has been more than once on 80 and 160M the DX could not quite get my call correct with the KPA500. Once the Acom 2000A timed out they had no trouble copying my call. Most of the time I operate the K3 barefoot. When I need more oomph I turn on the KPA500. If conditions are not good I turn on the Acom. There are times the difference between 600W and 1500W can make the difference between a QSO and no QSO. It would be nice to have a 1500W S-S amp in the basement alongside the KPA500. Any amp I would buy needs to be able to be controlled remotely like the KPA500 and the Acom. The only real advantage to me switching from a tube to a solid-state amp would be the timeout thing. During a contest and when a DXpedition is going, then I just leave the Acom on. No big thing letting it sit there idling.

73 and HNY
N2TK, Tony



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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Ignacy
With a little work, KPA500 can be a KW amp while losing weight. This is by using LDMOS and a commercial PS. But then KAT500 would have to be beefed up to KAT1000.

I have Expert 1.3k that I use with KX3 for > 1 KW. The Expert is 21 lbs (lighter than Elecraft) with a 3:1 tuner + 4 antenna switch and automatic 110/220V switching; KPA500/KAT500 would be 35 lbs + cables. Also without dealers markup, the no-ATU version is not that much expensive than KPA500. But the Expert needs Elecraft refinement.

One KW is great when working portable as DX. Everybody responds even with impromptu antennas.

Ignacy, NO9E
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

> I have Expert 1.3k that I use with KX3 for > 1 KW.

The Expert 1.3K also violates the 15 dB gain limitation rule and is a
real garbage generator.  Expert's own test data in their application
for FCC approval showed IMD at -27 dB at 800 W!  For your 1 KW, each
of the IMD products are probably around .5W and I'd hate to even
think about the IMD level at 1.3 KW!

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/30/2016 11:07 PM, Ignacy wrote:

> With a little work, KPA500 can be a KW amp while losing weight. This is by
> using LDMOS and a commercial PS. But then KAT500 would have to be beefed up
> to KAT1000.
>
> I have Expert 1.3k that I use with KX3 for > 1 KW. The Expert is 21 lbs
> (lighter than Elecraft) with a 3:1 tuner + 4 antenna switch and automatic
> 110/220V switching; KPA500/KAT500 would be 35 lbs + cables. Also without
> dealers markup, the no-ATU version is not that much expensive than KPA500.
> But the Expert needs Elecraft refinement.
>
> One KW is great when working portable as DX. Everybody responds even with
> impromptu antennas.
>
> Ignacy, NO9E
>
>
>
> --
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Ignacy
The Expert 1.3k is sold with the 15 db restriction. But anybody can do a low power mod and it is legal.

ARLL Review (July 16) shows IMD at 1.3 KW level:
      3rd/5th/7th/9th (14 MHz, 1300 W PEP): –31/–39/–57/–55 dB.

Seems not to be worse than Acom 1500.

The IMD as measured are misleading. Take FT1000 or FT5000. Measured IMD in class A perhaps -50db but real one with processing due to aggressive ALC of perhaps -25 db.

Good feature of the expert is automatic 110/220V supply. If 220V is unavailable or sags, switch to lower power.

Ignacy, NO9E
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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Jim Brown-10
Audio processing can create distortion only in the passband of the
crystal filters. It may sound varying degrees of awful, but it doesn't
cause splatter. You've got to overdrive an RF stage or have that stage
drive a mismatched load, or drive it with AGC engaged, or stuff like
that to generate splatter.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sat,12/31/2016 4:04 PM, Ignacy wrote:
> The IMD as measured are misleading. Take FT1000 or FT5000. Measured IMD in
> class A perhaps -50db but real one with processing due to aggressive ALC of
> perhaps -25 db.


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Re: Please do a KPA1500

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On 12/31/2016 11:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> Audio processing can create distortion only in the passband of the
> crystal filters.

Not in the case of Yaesu and Icom (at least).  Both use ALC circuits
with excess gain which activate after the PA is driven into saturation.
The excess gain also drives the IF and driver stages into saturation.
Since the "roofing filter" (on rigs like the FT-1000 or IC-756 series)
is a relatively broad VHF filter, that distortion, clipping and splatter
is not limited to the audio bandwidth and easily extends to
25 KHz or more.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

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Re: Please do a KPA1500

nels.nelsen_NE7LS
In reply to this post by fserota
Hi Fred

Your looking for a bigger Elecraft  amp?

Just put two 500's side by side and drive them 180 degrees out of phase and
take their output and drive a balanced line to your antenna. Be sure to
come back and let us know how it works best for you.
Have fun with it.

NE7LS

                       n_n

Remember that all the problems that you are comming up with have already
been solved. Just read the back issues of QST, Ham Radio and 73's magazine.
Building it is  'more'  than half the fun.

On Dec 30, 2016 9:37 AM, "Fredric Serota" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Now more than ever there is a need for a 1500 watt amplifier of the
> quality and function of the KPA500. PLEASE, Elecraft, reconsider your
> decision to produce a KPA 1500. You could use the front end of the KPA500
> as a controller?
>
> Fred Serota, K3BHX
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