Elecraft

Price increase in mid Sept.

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Price increase in mid Sept.

Administrator

Hi,

This is an early heads-up for our customers that we will be increasing prices slightly on several of our products, including the K3, in mid September. Any orders placed before that point will be honored at today's pricing.

We are still reviewing our complete product line to determine where our costs have increased significantly, so I can't be more specific on which other products will increase in price, or by how much. (We've been absorbing a lot of the parts cost increases over the past year.)

Please don't ask the sales staff for more specifics as they do not have any additional information.

As always, we'll strive to keep these changes as small as possible, and to absorb cost increases where ever possible.

73,
Eric
www.elecraft.com
_..._

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Oliver Dröse

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

Thanks for the heads-up, Eric!

What I have already been wondering when the last price increase was
announced 2 years ago (I believe it was) is why are prices increasing for
Elecraft gear (even if only slightly) while prices of all other
manufacturers are falling after products a certain time on the market?

I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher price (but
still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and after
"earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early adaptors who
always need the newest and "best") they can and do decrease the product
prices as they only have the production costs then (including margin, etc.).
Typical mass-production mechanisms.

So what is different at Elecraft? No mass-production (compared to the "big
ones")? Or is that lower prices right away and thus always only production
costs + margin + only small uplift for development (which might level out
that of the others seen over a complete product life-cycle)? At least those
others have to fight the same cost increases for components, etc.

Just curious (and indeed thinking Elecraft gear *is* worth it's price).

73, Olli - DH8BQA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:10 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.

> Hi,
>
> This is an early heads-up for our customers that we will be increasing
> prices slightly on several of our products, including the K3, in mid
> September. Any orders placed before that point will be honored at today's
> pricing.
>
> We are still reviewing our complete product line to determine where our
> costs have increased significantly, so I can't be more specific on which
> other products will increase in price, or by how much. (We've been
> absorbing a lot of the parts cost increases over the past year.)
>
> Please don't ask the sales staff for more specifics as they do not have
> any additional information.
>
> As always, we'll strive to keep these changes as small as possible, and to
> absorb cost increases where ever possible.
>
> 73,
> Eric
> www.elecraft.com
> _..._
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

Olli,

I bought an FT-857D, new, about four years ago. I checked the price
recently for insurance purposes, and the price of that radio is actually
about $150-$200 US more today than it was when I bought it.

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

On 8/16/2012 4:34 PM, Oliver Dröse wrote:

> Thanks for the heads-up, Eric!
>
> What I have already been wondering when the last price increase was
> announced 2 years ago (I believe it was) is why are prices increasing for
> Elecraft gear (even if only slightly) while prices of all other
> manufacturers are falling after products a certain time on the market?
>
> I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher price (but
> still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and after
> "earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early adaptors who
> always need the newest and "best") they can and do decrease the product
> prices as they only have the production costs then (including margin, etc.).
> Typical mass-production mechanisms.
>
> So what is different at Elecraft? No mass-production (compared to the "big
> ones")? Or is that lower prices right away and thus always only production
> costs + margin + only small uplift for development (which might level out
> that of the others seen over a complete product life-cycle)? At least those
> others have to fight the same cost increases for components, etc.
>
> Just curious (and indeed thinking Elecraft gear *is* worth it's price).
>
> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:10 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is an early heads-up for our customers that we will be increasing
>> prices slightly on several of our products, including the K3, in mid
>> September. Any orders placed before that point will be honored at today's
>> pricing.
>>
>> We are still reviewing our complete product line to determine where our
>> costs have increased significantly, so I can't be more specific on which
>> other products will increase in price, or by how much. (We've been
>> absorbing a lot of the parts cost increases over the past year.)
>>
>> Please don't ask the sales staff for more specifics as they do not have
>> any additional information.
>>
>> As always, we'll strive to keep these changes as small as possible, and to
>> absorb cost increases where ever possible.
>>
>> 73,
>> Eric
>> www.elecraft.com
>> _..._
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Oliver Dröse

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

Hi Ian,

yes indeed, but that is a special case due to the current desaster in Japan.
Usually prices drop, i.e. my first IC-7000 was bought for 1.600 EUR, now
it's available for < 1.100 EUR. IC-746 was 3.600 DM when new, bought for
2.800 DM later on. Same for the FT-817 (just to name a second example, there
are lots more): Bought for 900 EUR in 2001, could be bought new for 499 EUR
1.5 years ago (now price is up to 600 EUR due to the still general supply
shortage in Japan but without the floods and problems afterwards it would
still sell below 500 EUR).

73, Olli - DH8BQA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Kahn - Ham" <[hidden email]>
To: "Oliver Dröse" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" <[hidden email]>; "Elecraft
Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.

> Olli,
>
> I bought an FT-857D, new, about four years ago. I checked the price
> recently for insurance purposes, and the price of that radio is actually
> about $150-$200 US more today than it was when I bought it.
>
> --Ian
>
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA EM74ua
> [hidden email]
> K3 #281, P3 #688
> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
>
> On 8/16/2012 4:34 PM, Oliver Dröse wrote:
>> Thanks for the heads-up, Eric!
>>
>> What I have already been wondering when the last price increase was
>> announced 2 years ago (I believe it was) is why are prices increasing for
>> Elecraft gear (even if only slightly) while prices of all other
>> manufacturers are falling after products a certain time on the market?
>>
>> I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher price
>> (but
>> still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and after
>> "earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early adaptors who
>> always need the newest and "best") they can and do decrease the product
>> prices as they only have the production costs then (including margin,
>> etc.).
>> Typical mass-production mechanisms.
>>
>> So what is different at Elecraft? No mass-production (compared to the
>> "big
>> ones")? Or is that lower prices right away and thus always only
>> production
>> costs + margin + only small uplift for development (which might level out
>> that of the others seen over a complete product life-cycle)? At least
>> those
>> others have to fight the same cost increases for components, etc.
>>
>> Just curious (and indeed thinking Elecraft gear *is* worth it's price).
>>
>> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:10 PM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This is an early heads-up for our customers that we will be increasing
>>> prices slightly on several of our products, including the K3, in mid
>>> September. Any orders placed before that point will be honored at
>>> today's
>>> pricing.
>>>
>>> We are still reviewing our complete product line to determine where our
>>> costs have increased significantly, so I can't be more specific on which
>>> other products will increase in price, or by how much. (We've been
>>> absorbing a lot of the parts cost increases over the past year.)
>>>
>>> Please don't ask the sales staff for more specifics as they do not have
>>> any additional information.
>>>
>>> As always, we'll strive to keep these changes as small as possible, and
>>> to
>>> absorb cost increases where ever possible.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Eric
>>> www.elecraft.com
>>> _..._
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> -----
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wayne burdick

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

Administrator

In reply to this post by Oliver Dröse

Our volume is certainly less than that of the "big three." That means
we can't order in quantities as large as they do, and we have less
leverage at times when prices go up. And they have been going up --
almost everything gets more expensive year to year.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

Oliver Dröse wrote:

> What I have already been wondering when the last price increase was
> announced 2 years ago (I believe it was) is why are prices
> increasing for
> Elecraft gear (even if only slightly) while prices of all other
> manufacturers are falling after products a certain time on the market?
>
> I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher
> price (but
> still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and after
> "earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early
> adaptors who
> always need the newest and "best") they can and do decrease the
> product
> prices as they only have the production costs then (including
> margin, etc.).
> Typical mass-production mechanisms.
>
> So what is different at Elecraft? No mass-production (compared to
> the "big
> ones")? Or is that lower prices right away and thus always only
> production
> costs + margin + only small uplift for development (which might
> level out
> that of the others seen over a complete product life-cycle)? At
> least those
> others have to fight the same cost increases for components, etc.

Rob May-2

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

I buy lots of parts from Mouser, but at work and for myself. Many components have doubled in price in the last 3 or 4 years. I'm sure Elecraft makes every effort to balance cost vs. margin vs. market. My 4 year old K3 and 4 month old KX3 were/are bargains.
Rob
NV5E

----------------------------------------

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:43:43 -0700
> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.
>
> Our volume is certainly less than that of the "big three." That means
> we can't order in quantities as large as they do, and we have less
> leverage at times when prices go up. And they have been going up --
> almost everything gets more expensive year to year.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> Oliver Dröse wrote:
>
> > What I have already been wondering when the last price increase was
> > announced 2 years ago (I believe it was) is why are prices
> > increasing for
> > Elecraft gear (even if only slightly) while prices of all other
> > manufacturers are falling after products a certain time on the market?
> >
> > I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher
> > price (but
> > still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and after
> > "earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early
> > adaptors who
> > always need the newest and "best") they can and do decrease the
> > product
> > prices as they only have the production costs then (including
> > margin, etc.).
> > Typical mass-production mechanisms.
> >
> > So what is different at Elecraft? No mass-production (compared to
> > the "big
> > ones")? Or is that lower prices right away and thus always only
> > production
> > costs + margin + only small uplift for development (which might
> > level out
> > that of the others seen over a complete product life-cycle)? At
> > least those
> > others have to fight the same cost increases for components, etc.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill K9YEQ

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

I must jump in. Elecraft products are unique. I really will not compare
radio prices to another manufacturer when I get what I need from what I want
to do what I want for a reasonable price. After 52 years of hamming,
Elecraft radios, for what I pay, I consider unequalled. Email me off list
if you would like to debate. Thank you for reading.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Gregory
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:36 PM
To: Dale Putnam
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

*Eric makes the point that this increase is cost related. Many manufacturers
do this of course and some just bring out a new model and the additional
cost pressures are built into the new model pricing.

Nice to see Elecraft continue the products currently being sold and just
make a cost adjustment as needed.

Whatever the increase may be, Elecraft are very well managed and as such
they will examine their business plan carefully and are well aware of the
adverse effects any increase in the retail price can have to their business.

I would be confident that Eric and the management team have examined all
aspects of production and supply and the increase will be the minimum they
can be happy with.

To compare Elecraft to say Kenwood, Icom and Yaesu is perhaps not a good
comparison. The corporate structure and governance of these companies is
totally different.

Gary
*
On 17 August 2012 10:14, Dale Putnam <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> It seems to me that Kenwood is managed by some very smart fellers...
> head to head with a pair of super smart fellers... Both have a product
> to sell... and a goal to meet... if the price varies... all other
> things being somewhat equal to the two... a lowering of the price says
> they want to sell more, and the profit is not to be as much. If the
> price is forced up, that says the quality and support will have to be
> as best as it gets, to support the price being forced up, by parts
> cost, AND there isn't a pot of profit from numerous other arms of the
> same company to suck up the profit difference. One more thing....
> standing on your own, says a lot for thequality of the offered product. A

WHOLE lot!!

>
> --... ...--
> Dale - WC7S in Wy
> > Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:44:38 -0400
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: Price increase in mid Sept.
> >
> > I bought a new TS-590 less than 2 years ago and its price today is
> > about
> $150 less than what I paid back then. And, as far as I know, Kenwood
> has had great success selling that radio. Anyway, I believe it is
> really Elecraft's prerogative to increase the price on their products.
> We then will have to decide if we want to spend the money or not. :-)
> >
> > Robert-KP4Y
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.
> > From: Ian Kahn - Ham <[hidden email]>
> > To: Oliver Dröse <[hidden email]>
> > CC: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>,Eric Swartz WA6HHQ
> > -
> Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> >
> > Olli,
> >
> > I bought an FT-857D, new, about four years ago. I checked the price
> > recently for insurance purposes, and the price of that radio is
> > actually about $150-$200 US more today than it was when I bought it.
> >
> > --Ian
> >
> > Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> > Roswell, GA EM74ua
> > [hidden email]
> > K3 #281, P3 #688
> > HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
> >
> > On 8/16/2012 4:34 PM, Oliver Dröse wrote:
> > > Thanks for the heads-up, Eric!
> > >
> > > What I have already been wondering when the last price increase
> > > was announced 2 years ago (I believe it was) is why are prices
> > > increasing
> for
> > > Elecraft gear (even if only slightly) while prices of all other
> > > manufacturers are falling after products a certain time on the market?
> > >
> > > I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher
> price (but
> > > still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and
> > > after "earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early
> > > adaptors
> who
> > > always need the newest and "best") they can and do decrease the
> > > product prices as they only have the production costs then
> > > (including margin,
> etc.).
> > > Typical mass-production mechanisms.
> > >
> > > So what is different at Elecraft? No mass-production (compared to
> > > the
> "big
> > > ones")? Or is that lower prices right away and thus always only
> production
> > > costs + margin + only small uplift for development (which might
> > > level
> out
> > > that of the others seen over a complete product life-cycle)? At
> > > least
> those
> > > others have to fight the same cost increases for components, etc.
> > >
> > > Just curious (and indeed thinking Elecraft gear *is* worth it's

price).

> > >
> > > 73, Olli - DH8BQA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> > > To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:10 PM
> > > Subject: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> This is an early heads-up for our customers that we will be
> > >> increasing prices slightly on several of our products, including
> > >> the K3, in mid September. Any orders placed before that point
> > >> will be honored at
> today's
> > >> pricing.
> > >>
> > >> We are still reviewing our complete product line to determine
> > >> where
> our
> > >> costs have increased significantly, so I can't be more specific
> > >> on
> which
> > >> other products will increase in price, or by how much. (We've
> > >> been absorbing a lot of the parts cost increases over the past
> > >> year.)
> > >>
> > >> Please don't ask the sales staff for more specifics as they do
> > >> not
> have
> > >> any additional information.
> > >>
> > >> As always, we'll strive to keep these changes as small as
> > >> possible,
> and to
> > >> absorb cost increases where ever possible.
> > >>
> > >> 73,
> > >> Eric
> > >> www.elecraft.com
> > >> _..._
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ______________________________________________________________
> > >> Elecraft mailing list
> > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >>
> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > >> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >>
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
*Gary*
*Start the day off slow, then taper off.........*
______________________________________________________________
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______________________________________________________________
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N5GE-2

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

In reply to this post by Oliver Dröse

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 22:34:12 +0200, Oliver Dröse <[hidden email]> wrote:

[snip]
>I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher price (but
>still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and after
>"earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early adaptors who
>always need the newest and "best") they can and do decrease the product
>prices as they only have the production costs then (including margin, etc.).
>Typical mass-production mechanisms.
>

>So what is different at Elecraft?

You forget one thing.

You cannot buy a rig directly from the giant rig manufacturers. The price you
pay for them is the mark-up the dealer makes so he/she can make a profit.
Another thing to take into account is that it's the dealer who charges you more
for your new (I want it before anyone else product) in the beginning because
he/she knows you will pay extra for the latest thing, so you can tell others you
have one, or so you can test it against you current rig and report on it before
anyone else does.....

No malice is intended in my statement. That's just how some folks are.

[snip]

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

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Tony Estep

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 8:32 PM, N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...You cannot buy a rig directly from the giant rig manufacturers. ...

----------------
This has nothing to do with the original point, which was the perfectly
true observation that the price of some radios comes down over time. It is
probably correct, as was conjectured in the first post, that the marginal
cost of production declines as the company goes up the learning curve with
its tooling, etc., and perhaps order quantities can be managed more
cost-effectively as well. These gains may be passed along in the form of
price decreases. Moreover, there is the very real possibility that a new
design may have a premium value when it first hits the market, and that
premium may decline over time. This is very familiar in the semiconductor
business, where chip makers actually post future price curves showing
planned declines.

But if production costs are mainly a function of components whose costs
rise over time, the manufacturer has no cost savings to pass on, and in
fact may have to raise prices to maintain margins.

In the final analysis, price is a function not only of costs and desired
margins, but of demand. In particular, if a manufacturer is selling all he
can make of some item, and there is an order backlog, then clearly the
price is satisfactory to customers. The most relevant considerations to a
consumer of any product are performance, suitability, and competitive
alternatives. Some manufacturers earn dazzling margins, but are able to
sell all the gadgets they can make; others can't sell their products even
at prices at or below manufacturing cost. The price declines seen in
certain sectors of the ham market may simply be a reaction to dwindling
demand. In all cases,
the discipline of the market is a lot better way to set prices than
someone's impressionistic hunch.

Tony KT0NY

--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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Gary Gregory

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

*Tony,

An aging product can be adversly affected by another manufacturer releasing
a product that is superior to the aging one and to generate more sales the
original manufacturer may well decrease the margin to stimulate their sales
numbers.

Wayne has a valid point, BUT, there are many, many variables at play in the
commercial world. The board of directors also bleat as do the accounting
divisions of major companies. What Elecraft have is the advantage of being
a tightly held company with all the figures at their fingertips and this
makes it an easier task to monitor cost and sales margins.

Comparing transceivers is always fraught with danger as no two transceivers
are the same and the market is broad when it comes to customer
requirements. For me it's always been "bang for your buck" and in my case
at least Elecraft are at the top of the list and have been since I first
stumbled my way on the internet and discovered the name. I had no idea (and
some will say I still don't) who Elecraft were. But I read about the K3 and
got hooked!...for this I blame Wayne and Eric!

My dwindling savings are testament to this...:-(

73
Gary
*
On 17 August 2012 12:09, Tony Estep <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 8:32 PM, N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > ...You cannot buy a rig directly from the giant rig manufacturers. ...
>
> ----------------
> This has nothing to do with the original point, which was the perfectly
> true observation that the price of some radios comes down over time. It is
> probably correct, as was conjectured in the first post, that the marginal
> cost of production declines as the company goes up the learning curve with
> its tooling, etc., and perhaps order quantities can be managed more
> cost-effectively as well. These gains may be passed along in the form of
> price decreases. Moreover, there is the very real possibility that a new
> design may have a premium value when it first hits the market, and that
> premium may decline over time. This is very familiar in the semiconductor
> business, where chip makers actually post future price curves showing
> planned declines.
>
> But if production costs are mainly a function of components whose costs
> rise over time, the manufacturer has no cost savings to pass on, and in
> fact may have to raise prices to maintain margins.
>
> In the final analysis, price is a function not only of costs and desired
> margins, but of demand. In particular, if a manufacturer is selling all he
> can make of some item, and there is an order backlog, then clearly the
> price is satisfactory to customers. The most relevant considerations to a
> consumer of any product are performance, suitability, and competitive
> alternatives. Some manufacturers earn dazzling margins, but are able to
> sell all the gadgets they can make; others can't sell their products even
> at prices at or below manufacturing cost. The price declines seen in
> certain sectors of the ham market may simply be a reaction to dwindling
> demand. In all cases,
> the discipline of the market is a lot better way to set prices than
> someone's impressionistic hunch.
>
> Tony KT0NY
>
>
> --
> http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

N0AZZ

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

In reply to this post by N5GE-2

Like the KX3 you mean (8-)

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of N5GE
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:33 PM
To: Oliver Dröse
Cc: Elecraft Reflector; Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 22:34:12 +0200, Oliver Dröse <[hidden email]> wrote:

[snip]
>I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher price
>(but still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and
>after "earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early
>adaptors who always need the newest and "best") they can and do
>decrease the product prices as they only have the production costs then
(including margin, etc.).
>Typical mass-production mechanisms.
>

>So what is different at Elecraft?

You forget one thing.

You cannot buy a rig directly from the giant rig manufacturers. The price
you
pay for them is the mark-up the dealer makes so he/she can make a profit.
Another thing to take into account is that it's the dealer who charges you
more
for your new (I want it before anyone else product) in the beginning because
he/she knows you will pay extra for the latest thing, so you can tell others
you
have one, or so you can test it against you current rig and report on it
before
anyone else does.....

No malice is intended in my statement. That's just how some folks are.

[snip]

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

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ke9uw

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

Eric and Wayne, thanks for the notice on a (modest) price increase.
Very appreciated. I will get my planned orders in before mid September.

Chuck, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224
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Chuck, KE9UW

Oliver Dröse

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Thanks a lot Wayne.

That is the major explanation I was looking for. With Elecraft it's easy to
follow sales figures as everybody's proud and posts them (me too ;-)). That
is more difficult with the other big manufacturers. But my assumption is
they do sell lots lots more radios (take alone all those HT's although they
get some big competitors fro China nowadays). Heard rumors once (not sure if
that's true but could imagine) that Yaesu sold > 100.000 FT-817's in the
first 8 years alone. Then they have all their other products, too. So that
certainly is another volume also for buying components etc. and using their
market share to literally "dictate" prices at some semi-conductors, too.
Keeping fingers crossed that Elecraft will grow further and further (keeping
up your good support structures, etc.) and increase their market share.
Would be interesting to see an "official" market share diagram concerning
amateur radio manufacturers one day.

To all of you "drifting" into a value discussion: I did not question if
Elecraft products are worth their prices (some might have misinterpreted my
original mail - judging from a few responses here on the reflector and quite
a number of privat mails). They are, that's why I spent quite some
Dollars/Euros with them, too, and intend to buy even more. ;-)

73, Olli - DH8BQA
K3 #4546, KPA500 #431,
KX3 # 602, KAT500 #???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Burdick" <[hidden email]>
To: "Oliver Dröse" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" <[hidden email]>; "Elecraft
Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Price increase in mid Sept.

Our volume is certainly less than that of the "big three." That means
we can't order in quantities as large as they do, and we have less
leverage at times when prices go up. And they have been going up --
almost everything gets more expensive year to year.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

Oliver Dröse wrote:

> What I have already been wondering when the last price increase was
> announced 2 years ago (I believe it was) is why are prices increasing for
> Elecraft gear (even if only slightly) while prices of all other
> manufacturers are falling after products a certain time on the market?
>
> I understood that Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom start with an a bit higher price
> (but
> still acceptable otherwise they would not sell their radios) and after
> "earning" all the development costs (and "milking" the early adaptors who
> always need the newest and "best") they can and do decrease the product
> prices as they only have the production costs then (including margin,
> etc.).
> Typical mass-production mechanisms.
>
> So what is different at Elecraft? No mass-production (compared to the
> "big
> ones")? Or is that lower prices right away and thus always only
> production
> costs + margin + only small uplift for development (which might level out
> that of the others seen over a complete product life-cycle)? At least
> those
> others have to fight the same cost increases for components, etc.

-----
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N5GE-2

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

In reply to this post by Tony Estep

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:09:57 -0500, Tony Estep <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 8:32 PM, N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...You cannot buy a rig directly from the giant rig manufacturers. ...
>
>----------------
>This has nothing to do with the original point
[snip]

Nonsense.

Any time there is a distributor in a transaction the transaction will be
affected by adjustments made by the distributor . The distributor can even
decide to sell a product at a loss.

The factory doesn't pay to ship it's product, the distributor does. Even
Elecraft has no control over the shipping cost passed on to the distributor by
the company who hauls the freight, which is passed on by Electraft to the
customer, unless Elecraft decides to provide free shipping or not charge the
customer for the parts in the assembled product.

Caution: OT Comment...

I agree with you that stock holders drive the price of products, but it seems to
me that the stock holders should never be so stupid as to pay CEO's the insane
salaries they have these days.
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Price increase in mid Sept.

Administrator

Folks, this is now drifting OT. We've covered this topic thoroughly, time to close the thread.

73,
Eric
Elecraft List Moderator
www.elecraft.com
_..._

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