Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> You can use USPS International Priority Mail but the limit of
> insurance is only $650. Not good enough for an amateur rig. And then
> if it isn't delivered how easy will it be to collect the insurance???

USPS Insurance limits vary depending on country.  Some are as high as
$5000 and in other cases insurance is not available.  The amount of
available insurance is based on the value that the destination country
will insure.

In any case, it's nearly impossible to collect on the insurance as the
USPS claims people will do everything they can - including lying about
import restrictions and improperly classifying shipments - in order to
reject claims.  They are only marginally better than insurance from UPS
or FedEx, in my experience.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 6/2/2011 5:13 PM, Mike K2MK wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> Paperwork is not the problem. If you pay for the shipment on-line you can
> fill out the simple paperwork there as well. The real problems with
> international shipments are cost and insurability.
>
> USPS is reasonable if you can ship by International First Class Mail.
> Unfortunately you can't purchase insurance so this not good for an expensive
> item. You can send it as Registered which is highly reliable within the USA
> but once it leaves our air space all bets are off. I shipped a 3 pound ebay
> item (value $250) to Israel with registration and it had not arrived after a
> month. I started a trace 2 months ago and still have not heard any results.
> So I had to reimburse the buyer and if the trace comes back as lost I
> "might" be able to collect a small amount of money. I'm not holding my
> breath.
>
> You can use USPS International Priority Mail but the limit of insurance is
> only $650. Not good enough for an amateur rig. And then if it isn't
> delivered how easy will it be to collect the insurance??? And how long will
> it take to trace the shipment before they settle the claim??? The buyer will
> want his money back right away.
>
> The best USPS has to offer is Global Express Guaranteed. It has a $2500
> insurance limit. I priced up a 10 pound package to the UK with $2000
> insurance and the shipping cost is $155.
>
> UPS is probably the most reliable service since they have their own people
> at the delivery end but the cost will be higher still. The same 10 pound
> package in a 12 x 12 x 12 inch box, insured at $2000, would cost $224 to
> ship to the UK.
>
> Is it worth the hassle when there are buyers in the US? I don't think so.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
> Ray G3XLG wrote:
>>
>> I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered
>> for
>> private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.
>>
>> Why...?
>>
>> We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
>> problem please?
>>
>> I just bought a kit&  accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
>> delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
>> Europe.
>>
>> Just interested .
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Ray G3XLG
>>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Private-Sales-of-used-Elecraft-Rigs-tp6431789p6432890.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Edward R Cole]

Have to back up what Jim, KL7CC,.said:

Flat-Rate Priority Mail is just that -  the same amount to ship to
all 50 states!  I use PayPal as it most convenient for selling and
buying (verified funds and almost instantly transferred-no monetary
exchange fees).  I can use my credit card with PayPal as most hams
are not able to accept a cc payment.  But then some folks don't
"like" PayPal (I translate that to mean they do not trust it).  I
have been using is for several years with both ebay and private ham
transactions, in the USA and internationally.  Never a problem!

BTW International Priority Mail is reasonably fast (from Alaska to EU
about 15-days or less).

Customs forms are not hard to fill out.  If you have a question ask
at the postal desk.  I think the CONUS folks need to come up and mush
a dog team at -20F and have a sleep-over in an igloo.  Folks have got
too used to easy-fast everything with apps!

Just as a side note so you know where I am coming from:  I lived my
first three years in Alaska in a 8x10 foot canvas wall-tent heated
with wood and no utilities of any kind...I would not trade that
experience for anything (but glad I live in a modern gas-heated home,
now).  I have had sled dogs since 1980 with only three left in their
(and my) old age.

When folks limit their transactions to CONUS they miss out.  I hear
there are a lot of rich oil people live up in Alaska!  I could say
more but this is OT.


73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
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[Mike Reublin]

Anybody remember the scam where the buyer wanted to overpay by $500 or $1000 or so,
have a "friend" in the U.S. handle the shipping and the extra remittance. The
overseas payment bounced, and there was no recourse.

73, Mike NF4L

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[Johnny Siu]

Hello Ray,
 
I have the impression that quite a number of the US sellers are worried about shipping overseas (I don't know why).
 
In the past, when I bought from private individuals in US, I had to even give them weblink to USPS about using which way of shipping e.g. International Priority standard rate box etc.  Or, I simply ask them to use my Fedex account so that they have no involvement in paying any shipping costs.
 
In some cases, since the sellers were so worried that I simply asked them to ship to my friends in US. And then I asked my friend to re-ship the gears to me.
 
Nowadays, logistics among countries are just so common.  As long as the parcels are well packed and properly tracked, I don't see any problems.
 
Similar to you, I am not complaining about anyone here but just curious.
 
 
TNX & 73,


Johnny VR2XMC

從︰ Ray Spreadbury <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ [hidden email]
傳送日期︰ 2011年06月3日 (週五) 12:07 AM
主題︰ [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

I am intrigued, I've noticed that when various Elecraft rigs are offered for
private sale on this forum they invariably say " Continental USA" only.

Why...?

We Europeans also have PayPal, Visa, Bank Transfers  etc etc so what's the
problem please?



I just bought a kit & accessories direct from Elecraft 2 weeks ago, it was
delivered within 7 days and they didn't have a problem with selling to
Europe.



Just interested .

73

Ray G3XLG

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[Edward R Cole]

Shipping via the US Postal Service is not something that many of us
would choose to do, especially with something as delicate and valuable
as a ham transceiver.  That's a big part of why UPS and Fed Ex exist.
--------------
=OK, but it is generally cheaper outside CONUS to use USPS vs.
UPS/FedEx.  And the buyer chooses mode of shipping and pays the rate
- so where it the problem?  For something expensive, definitely
insure it (again the buyer pays).
---------------
In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell internationally is the
matter of customs and duties, with the associated paperwork.  Here it's
mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the procedures are, etc.  I
might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the buyer.  Nothing
parochial beyond ignorance. :)     73, Jim K9YC
--------------
=And I think THIS is really the problem folks are having - they
imagine all sorts of issues!  Customs and duties are paid by the
receiving party (not the shipper).  All you need do is describe the
item.  Simple as saying "Ham radio parts".  Estimate their value
(this is what the customs will charge by), your name/address, the
destination name/address, your done!  Not any harder than filling out
a money order.  The form is half-page in size and most boxes do not
need to be filled in as they do not apply.
--------------

OK done ranting ;-)




73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
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[David Herring-3]

Let me just add a few bits of information about shipping to the 50th state:

USPS is quite likely the best way to ship to Hawaii (provided you DO NOT ship Parcel Post or Media Mail -- they can take up to 3 months to get here, even from places as close as California).  Priority Mail and First Class are excellent to Hawaii, arriving in a few days.  They are insurable, trackable and almost always arrive in good condition.

The old notion that USPS is rough with packages doesn't seem to be true anymore.  Some of the worst looking packages, as far as being beaten and mistreated, have come UPS.

UPS is about the worst way to ship to Hawaii, inasmuch as they cost about 3 times as much as Postal for no better service.  Oh, and they just love to try and convince us that we don't have Ground service to Hawaii and that we must pay even more for 2nd Day Air.  It's a bunch of hogwash.  We get Ground shipments everyday (still 3 times overpriced, though).

FedEx to Hawaii is great when the package is too big or too heavy for Postal.  They are more expensive, but not ridiculously so as in UPS.

So, I say all this, not to clog up the reflector, but to just suggest that anyone selling anything here should lay off the "CONUS" restriction.  If you want to limit to USA Only, well that's one thing, but no need to cut AK and HI out of the party.

True story:

I was going to buy a $1000 item from someone who as it turned out didn't want to sell to HI.  I explained that there is no difference in shipping and if there was, I'd make up the difference.  Then he says he can only ship via UPS, and that shipping would be nearly $300.

*I don't think so!*  

I tried to suggest USPS, or even FedEX, but he'd have no part of that.  So he got to keep his item (I have some suggestions as to where he could store it, but never mind that now...).

Now, a little while later, I found the same thing for about the same price, and it was being sold by someone who didn't mind Hawaii and didn't mind postal.  Shipping via Postal was about $40, insured and tracked.  It arrived, in perfect condition, in 3 days from the east coast.

Those of us in Hawaii deal with this everyday.  Its an island...if you want it here you have to ship it here. So those of us that live here know the ins and outs of shipping here.  if in doubt, ask us.

OK, I'm done.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress.

73 & Aloha,
Dave AH6TD
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[Fred Townsend]

I agree with Mike that paper work may not be the problem but I think we have
all heard of horror stories of one kind or another. Dealing with the USPS is
usually a pleasant experience but not always. One international transaction
took me over an hour at the counter. The supervisor was repeatedly called.
It was the clerks first day on the job. He still works at the same office
but he doesn't smile when I remind him of his first day. There was also the
clerk that wanted international postage to ship to New Mexico.

My biggest fears are what I will call the Nigerian scams. Ebay sellers see
them all the time. There always seems to be a new twist to what turns out to
be an old scam. Certified checks and other bonded instruments turn out to be
worthy only for hanging in the bathroom. By US law checks less than 5K$ are
quickly cleared but may be billed back weeks later with all charges reversed
and hefty negotiation charges added. Paypal may be a useful tool but not
everyone can process credit transactions. Even if you have credit card
capability certain international transactions require the card to be swiped.

No one has mentioned international packing requirements but everyone has
heard of the clerks playing soccer ball with the packages. Everything has to
be very well packed. Adding the words 'fragile' or 'this side up' calls
attention to the thieves of valuable contents. Also the contents may be
subject to customs inspection so you can not seal everything up. This also
gives the thieves an opportunity to inspect. Heavier items must be wood
crated. One famous amplifier manufacturer requires their power transformers
to be removed and shipped separately.

Finally, US citizens assume they are protected by US law. This is almost
never the case in foreign transactions. The buyer's country law almost
always applies which is to say no law at all if we are shipping to many
third world countries.

In the end I think you can understand why it is far easier to say CONUS
ONLY.

Fred Townsend, AE6QL

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike K2MK
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:13 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

Hi Ray,

Paperwork is not the problem. If you pay for the shipment on-line you can
fill out the simple paperwork there as well. The real problems with
international shipments are cost and insurability.


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[David Herring-3]

Fred,

CONUS means Continental United States.  That leaves out Alaska and Hawaii.  Nothing you have stated here applies any more to the 49th and 50th state of these United States than it does to 1 through 48.  We are not Nigeria (no offense to Africa), we don't require international packing, and you are fully protected by US law here.

Stipulating "Non-international" or "USA only" is one thing, but CONUS is unnecessary.

73 & Aloha,
Dave AH6TD


On Jun 2, 2011, at 1:13 PM, Fred Townsend wrote:

> I agree with Mike that paper work may not be the problem but I think we have
> all heard of horror stories of one kind or another. Dealing with the USPS is
> usually a pleasant experience but not always. One international transaction
> took me over an hour at the counter. The supervisor was repeatedly called.
> It was the clerks first day on the job. He still works at the same office
> but he doesn't smile when I remind him of his first day. There was also the
> clerk that wanted international postage to ship to New Mexico.
>
> My biggest fears are what I will call the Nigerian scams. Ebay sellers see
> them all the time. There always seems to be a new twist to what turns out to
> be an old scam. Certified checks and other bonded instruments turn out to be
> worthy only for hanging in the bathroom. By US law checks less than 5K$ are
> quickly cleared but may be billed back weeks later with all charges reversed
> and hefty negotiation charges added. Paypal may be a useful tool but not
> everyone can process credit transactions. Even if you have credit card
> capability certain international transactions require the card to be swiped.
>
> No one has mentioned international packing requirements but everyone has
> heard of the clerks playing soccer ball with the packages. Everything has to
> be very well packed. Adding the words 'fragile' or 'this side up' calls
> attention to the thieves of valuable contents. Also the contents may be
> subject to customs inspection so you can not seal everything up. This also
> gives the thieves an opportunity to inspect. Heavier items must be wood
> crated. One famous amplifier manufacturer requires their power transformers
> to be removed and shipped separately.
>
> Finally, US citizens assume they are protected by US law. This is almost
> never the case in foreign transactions. The buyer's country law almost
> always applies which is to say no law at all if we are shipping to many
> third world countries.
>
> In the end I think you can understand why it is far easier to say CONUS
> ONLY.
>
> Fred Townsend, AE6QL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike K2MK
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:13 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Paperwork is not the problem. If you pay for the shipment on-line you can
> fill out the simple paperwork there as well. The real problems with
> international shipments are cost and insurability.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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[Johnny Siu]

Hello David,
 
After I read through the answers, it appears to me that it would be a matter of convenience for individual seller and knowledge about international shipping.
 
Hong Kong is an international city not less advance than New York City too much.  We ship in and out all sorts of goods and gears everyday as part of a financial centre of the world.  Banking system here is also first rate.
 
To comfort USA sellers, I would offer to pay by paypal, wire transfer or a check drawn in favour of a US bank such as HSBC US.  I would further allow the seller to wait for the clearance of my check before shipping.
 
I bought radio gears occasionally from US dealers.  I did not encounter any problem in packages.  Elecraft is one of the good examples.  I did not encounter any problem from the shipping of Elecraft gears from Apoto to Hong Kong because they were well packed.
 
I also bought my K3 from an US ham in this reflector.  The entire transaction was smooth and no problem.  Both the buyer and seller were happy.
 
We do not have any state tax, federal tax, import duty, VAT, GST and customs duty etc.  Filling the customs papers is simple.  The seller simply writes down the actual contents and prices.
 
On the other hand, I have no problem to send any gears from Hong Kong to US.  Radio gears of the big names here are mostly 20% cheaper than US.  Sales from Hong Kong to most parts of the world including US are just common and part of the radio dealers' lifes (I am NOT a dealer).
 
To conclude, it would be just an individual seller's preference and knowledge of international shipping.  Clearly, if he can sell his gears right the way in CONUS, then why bother shipping overseas - even Hong Kong is one of the free ports with advanced banking system in the world.

TNX & 73,


Johnny VR2XMC

從︰ David Herring <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ [hidden email]
傳送日期︰ 2011年06月3日 (週五) 6:45 AM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs


Let me just add a few bits of information about shipping to the 50th state:

USPS is quite likely the best way to ship to Hawaii (provided you DO NOT ship Parcel Post or Media Mail -- they can take up to 3 months to get here, even from places as close as California).  Priority Mail and First Class are excellent to Hawaii, arriving in a few days.  They are insurable, trackable and almost always arrive in good condition.

The old notion that USPS is rough with packages doesn't seem to be true anymore.  Some of the worst looking packages, as far as being beaten and mistreated, have come UPS.

UPS is about the worst way to ship to Hawaii, inasmuch as they cost about 3 times as much as Postal for no better service.  Oh, and they just love to try and convince us that we don't have Ground service to Hawaii and that we must pay even more for 2nd Day Air.  It's a bunch of hogwash.  We get Ground shipments everyday (still 3 times overpriced, though).

FedEx to Hawaii is great when the package is too big or too heavy for Postal.  They are more expensive, but not ridiculously so as in UPS.

So, I say all this, not to clog up the reflector, but to just suggest that anyone selling anything here should lay off the "CONUS" restriction.  If you want to limit to USA Only, well that's one thing, but no need to cut AK and HI out of the party.

True story:

I was going to buy a $1000 item from someone who as it turned out didn't want to sell to HI.  I explained that there is no difference in shipping and if there was, I'd make up the difference.  Then he says he can only ship via UPS, and that shipping would be nearly $300.

*I don't think so!* 

I tried to suggest USPS, or even FedEX, but he'd have no part of that.  So he got to keep his item (I have some suggestions as to where he could store it, but never mind that now...).

Now, a little while later, I found the same thing for about the same price, and it was being sold by someone who didn't mind Hawaii and didn't mind postal.  Shipping via Postal was about $40, insured and tracked.  It arrived, in perfect condition, in 3 days from the east coast.

Those of us in Hawaii deal with this everyday.  Its an island...if you want it here you have to ship it here. So those of us that live here know the ins and outs of shipping here.  if in doubt, ask us.

OK, I'm done.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress.

73 & Aloha,
Dave AH6TD
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[Jim Wiley-2]

And which continent, exactly, are we on?  <grin>


- Jim, KL7CC
Anchorage, AK


David Herring wrote:
> Fred,
>
> CONUS means Continental United States.  That leaves out Alaska and Hawaii.
>  
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[KD8NNU]

Trick question, no fair.

Don
KD8NNU


On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Jim Wiley wrote:

> And which continent, exactly, are we on?  <grin>
>
>
> - Jim, KL7CC
> Anchorage, AK
>
>
> David Herring wrote:
>> Fred,
>>
>> CONUS means Continental United States.  That leaves out Alaska and
>> Hawaii.
> ______________________________________________________________
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[Cookie]

I believe that CONUS is actually Contiguous United States which does not include
Hawaii or Alaska even if Alaska is on North America.  It also does not include
Puerto Rico, U. S. Virgin Islands, Guam and other possessions.  But, as far as I
know the postal and other rules are the same for the whole United States,
Contiguous or not and States, Possessions or Protectorates, but a person selling
something is entitle to make up their own rules.
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart




________________________________
From: Jim Wiley <[hidden email]>
To: David Herring <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]; Mike K2MK <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 7:53:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs



And which continent, exactly, are we on?  <grin>


- Jim, KL7CC
Anchorage, AK


David Herring wrote:
> Fred,
>
> CONUS means Continental United States.  That leaves out Alaska and Hawaii.
> 
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[Eugene Balinski]

USPS is my preferred shipper.  As I have mentioned before,
they are local, they are generally helpful, are probably
your neighbors, and have no interest in keeping you from
insurance claims should the need arise.   My mailman has
even run around to the back of my house to place packages
out of the rain.  

73

K1NR

K2 6Kxx




On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 12:49:27 -0500
 [hidden email] wrote:

>
> Here in the USA I always choose USPS Priority Mail if
> given the option.  It
> usually costs about the same as UPS Ground and is always
> delivered within two
> business days of being shipped.  Why pay more?
>
>  
>
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 19:32:42 +0200, István Szabó
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >USPS is great to buy goods from US. Reasonable cost and
> I have never had
> >any issues with them. For transceivers this should be a
> tracked package.
> >UPS is more costly but also good.
> >
> >István Szabó
> >HA4ZD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On 6/2/2011 7:25 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >> On 6/2/2011 10:06 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> >>> I can not understand how going down to the local post
> >>> office would be a problem and if the customer pays
> the
> >>> shipping why would that present a problem for the
> seller,
> >>> but then again what do I know?
> >> Shipping via the US Postal Service is not something
> that many of us
> >> would choose to do, especially with something as
> delicate and valuable
> >> as a ham transceiver.  That's a big part of why UPS
> and Fed Ex exist.
> >>
> >> In my case, the major reason I don't want to sell
> internationally is the
> >> matter of customs and duties, with the associated
> paperwork.  Here it's
> >> mostly ignorance of what is needed, what the
> procedures are, etc.  I
> >> might look at it differently with a ham I knew as the
> buyer.  Nothing
> >> parochial beyond ignorance. :)
> >>
> >> 73, Jim K9YC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>

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[Jim Low man]

This is an interesting and educational topic.  I haven't yet had to
ship  any equipment overseas, but there is a EU ham who wants to buy my
Ten-Tec 526/"6N2" transceiver if I decide to sell it (which I haven't -
it's second only to the FT-817 for convenience for portable work).

Though it's a quasi-governmental agency, the US Postal Service was
privatized several years ago.  As such, they are expected to make a
reasonable attempt at being profitable.  The "Flat Rate" boxes are the
latest attempt at being competitive with UPS and FedEx, at least for
shipments within the US (all 50 states).

There are probably an equal number of horror stories about packages
being damaged by USPS and the other carriers.

In the last year or so I've sold some ham equipment that was excess to
my needs.  One bit of value-added service that the buyers have enjoyed
is that I paid for professional packing at the local UPS Store.  Never a
problem.  It cost me a bit more, but I had the peace of mind knowing
that the gear would arrive at its destination in the same shape that it
left my hands.  After my mother passed away we cleaned out the condo and
shipped things that we wanted to keep from Florida to California.  Even
a music box with blown-glass figurines on top arrived with no damage.

An interesting thing about UPS is that in case of loss or damage, only
the shipper can file a claim.  By using the packing and shipping
services at the UPS Store, they are considered to be the shipper and if
things go sideways they will step in to resolve the problem.  The other
thing is that, since it was packed by a UPS agent, they are less likely
to reject a claim because the item was not packed adequately.

The USPS must be doing a better job at being competitive, as I'm seeing
more and more goods that I order shipped that way rather than by UPS.  
FedEx sometimes uses the arrangement whereby they ship the item through
their own channels to a point near its destination, then dump it into
the postal system for delivery.  I'm not sure how this saves money, but
it must.

72/73 de Jim - AD6CW



On 6/2/2011 3:45 PM, David Herring wrote:

> Let me just add a few bits of information about shipping to the 50th state:
>
> USPS is quite likely the best way to ship to Hawaii (provided you DO NOT ship Parcel Post or Media Mail -- they can take up to 3 months to get here, even from places as close as California).  Priority Mail and First Class are excellent to Hawaii, arriving in a few days.  They are insurable, trackable and almost always arrive in good condition.
>
> The old notion that USPS is rough with packages doesn't seem to be true anymore.  Some of the worst looking packages, as far as being beaten and mistreated, have come UPS.
>
> UPS is about the worst way to ship to Hawaii, inasmuch as they cost about 3 times as much as Postal for no better service.  Oh, and they just love to try and convince us that we don't have Ground service to Hawaii and that we must pay even more for 2nd Day Air.  It's a bunch of hogwash.  We get Ground shipments everyday (still 3 times overpriced, though).
>
> FedEx to Hawaii is great when the package is too big or too heavy for Postal.  They are more expensive, but not ridiculously so as in UPS.
>
> So, I say all this, not to clog up the reflector, but to just suggest that anyone selling anything here should lay off the "CONUS" restriction.  If you want to limit to USA Only, well that's one thing, but no need to cut AK and HI out of the party.
>
> True story:
>
> I was going to buy a $1000 item from someone who as it turned out didn't want to sell to HI.  I explained that there is no difference in shipping and if there was, I'd make up the difference.  Then he says he can only ship via UPS, and that shipping would be nearly $300.
>
> *I don't think so!*
>
> I tried to suggest USPS, or even FedEX, but he'd have no part of that.  So he got to keep his item (I have some suggestions as to where he could store it, but never mind that now...).
>
> Now, a little while later, I found the same thing for about the same price, and it was being sold by someone who didn't mind Hawaii and didn't mind postal.  Shipping via Postal was about $40, insured and tracked.  It arrived, in perfect condition, in 3 days from the east coast.
>
> Those of us in Hawaii deal with this everyday.  Its an island...if you want it here you have to ship it here. So those of us that live here know the ins and outs of shipping here.  if in doubt, ask us.
>
> OK, I'm done.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress.
>
> 73&  Aloha,
> Dave AH6TD
>

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[Phil Kane-2]

On 6/2/2011 6:59 PM, Eugene Balinski wrote:

> My mailman has even run around to the back of my house to place
> packages out of the rain.

  Contrast that with the local UPS driver who will place a
  package on the front steps, knock softly, and then run to his
  truck to see if he can get away before someone opens the door.
  Sometimes he doesn't knock, and sometimes he will leave the
  package in a secluded place on the side of the steps and not
  post the required "where it is" notice.  FedEx will usually
  ring the bell before they do that.  If it's the regular USPS
  letter carrier she usually will knock loudly before leaving a
  package, but the relief carriers usually don't.  That's why I
  prefer a PO Box for my mail.

  What ever happened to "personal service"?

--  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
    Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

    From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
    Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon

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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Cookie]

Usually, acronyms are intended for a limited audience who understands the
meaning, but they tend to fall into general usage which includes those
not trained in the actual meaning.  In this case everyone seemed to know that
CONUS does not include Alaska, no doubt because of so many vets and movies, but
the confusion came from thinking the CON was for Continental rather than
Contiguous.  The question was raised that Alaska is in North America, so why was
it not included?  Indeed CONUS came into usage during WW2 when Alaska was not a
state and the definition may have changed between inception of the acronym and
my Viet Nam era service.
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart




________________________________
From: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]>
To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>; N <[hidden email]>; David Herring
<[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]; Mike K2MK <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 10:46:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

That's the problem with acronyms and abbreviations - they confuse more than
communicate.

Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----

I believe that CONUS is actually Contiguous United States which does not
include
Hawaii or Alaska even if Alaska is on North America.  It also does not
include
Puerto Rico, U. S. Virgin Islands, Guam and other possessions.  But, as far
as I
know the postal and other rules are the same for the whole United States,
Contiguous or not and States, Possessions or Protectorates, but a person
selling
something is entitle to make up their own rules.
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
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[Phil Hystad-3]

I don't suppose you guys heard what the US postman left at one
house while delivering mail on his route.  This took place in Portland
Oregon several months ago (I think, maybe more recent then that).
He was in the news again because after being on suspension and
waiting at home, his employer said that he could keep his job but
on another route.




On Jun 2, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 6/2/2011 6:59 PM, Eugene Balinski wrote:
>
>> My mailman has even run around to the back of my house to place
>> packages out of the rain.
>
>  Contrast that with the local UPS driver who will place a
>  package on the front steps, knock softly, and then run to his
>  truck to see if he can get away before someone opens the door.
>  Sometimes he doesn't knock, and sometimes he will leave the
>  package in a secluded place on the side of the steps and not
>  post the required "where it is" notice.  FedEx will usually
>  ring the bell before they do that.  If it's the regular USPS
>  letter carrier she usually will knock loudly before leaving a
>  package, but the relief carriers usually don't.  That's why I
>  prefer a PO Box for my mail.
>
>  What ever happened to "personal service"?
>
> --  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>    Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
>
>    From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>    Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon
>
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

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[Phil Hystad-3]

Here is a link to the incident in Portland,

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/04/pooping_portland_postman_caugh.php


On Jun 2, 2011, at 10:48 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> You guys live in the wrong place! My Fed Ex, UPS and Postal Carriers are all
> very courteous and careful to find me if they need a signature. My rural
> mailbox is a couple hundred yards from the house, so if there's something
> that doesn't fit, the US Postal carrier comes to my door. Fed EX and UPS
> don't stick around if they don't need a signature, but the wrap everything
> in water proof plastic (this IS rainy Oregon) and leave it where I've asked
> them to. If they aren't sure, they call me!
>
> Maybe it helps to say "Thank You" when they bring something. In our
> neighborhood, one must learn to drive one-handed because it's basic
> politeness to wave to everyone while driving by, even the school bus
> drivers...
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:25 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs
>
> I don't suppose you guys heard what the US postman left at one
> house while delivering mail on his route.  This took place in Portland
> Oregon several months ago (I think, maybe more recent then that).
> He was in the news again because after being on suspension and
> waiting at home, his employer said that he could keep his job but
> on another route.
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>
>> On 6/2/2011 6:59 PM, Eugene Balinski wrote:
>>
>>> My mailman has even run around to the back of my house to place
>>> packages out of the rain.
>>
>> Contrast that with the local UPS driver who will place a
>> package on the front steps, knock softly, and then run to his
>> truck to see if he can get away before someone opens the door.
>> Sometimes he doesn't knock, and sometimes he will leave the
>> package in a secluded place on the side of the steps and not
>> post the required "where it is" notice.  FedEx will usually
>> ring the bell before they do that.  If it's the regular USPS
>> letter carrier she usually will knock loudly before leaving a
>> package, but the relief carriers usually don't.  That's why I
>> prefer a PO Box for my mail.
>>
>> What ever happened to "personal service"?
>>
>> --  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>>   Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
>>
>>   From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>>   Beaverton (Washington County)  Oregon
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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