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Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

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K7TV

Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

I have several times sold items to foreign countries. Not too long ago I
sold a few items to a small corner of Europe based on my ad on this list. My
sales through ebay have gone to a variety of countries. In general, when I
see that the buyer is actually a ham, I tend to agree to do it, even if I
think it is a pain. Just the other day I sold an Icom to a fellow in Mexico
using ebay. (Gotta raise some cash, given the appearance of new products
from Elecraft.) In the case of the Mexican deal, my listing had excluded
Mexico as an acceptable buyer location, but what do I do when he bids anyway
and offers the best price, and is a fellow ham?

It really isn't difficult to ship to other countries, and if I insist on a
shipping method that includes good insurance and tracking all the way, I
don't worry too much about it. (Maybe I have just been lucky so far, and an
insurance nightmare will come one day.) But as a grumpy old man with
significant experience shipping to foreign buyers, I feel qualified to
explain why it is such a pain to ship to foreign buyers. It has little to do
with difficulty, and perhaps not with risk, but it does have a lot to do
with time spent unproductively, with resulting loss of self-respect:

1. People tend to think of a task being associated with a certain time
required to do it. "The IRS estimates that it takes 7 minutes to fill out
this form". The discussion here has shown a similar mindset. I am sure this
is appropriate if you are, say, a shipper in a shipping department, but it
is a very misleading way of thinking when you are just a ham who will ship
something occasionally. Unless you ship a number of items one after another,
most of the time spent will not be for the actual shipping but for the mind
adjustment and physical movements required to start doing a new type of
task. Anyone working in an office knows that productivity will be awful
unless your group together your phone calls to make, and group together the
letters to write, etc. The ability to switch context just gets worse as we
grow older. Radio buyers won't appreciate it if you tell them that you will
ship their package at the end of the month together with all your other
packages for the month. It does help if each package is shipped using
exactly the same routine, using the same service, to the same country. Many
buyers in other countries use the post office for everything. They miss out
on the better service often available here from other companies, but they
also have an advantage in that every shipment seems about the same, like you
learn only once to ride a bicycle. Having to sometimes use the post office
and sometimes another service to give the buyer the best rate is a source of
great irritation. Add in the fact that the rules and procedures and forms
are different depending on destination country, and each shipment devastates
the day as much as a visit to the dentist. Unless you are a full-time
shipper, your mind never learns any of it to the point that you can do it
without really thinking hard about missing something.

2. With a foreign buyer, the number of emails exchanged before and
after the sale tends to be 3 times the number with domestic buyers. First
there is looking at different services to find one that is the best price
including good insurance and estimated delivery time. (During this process,
going back and forth, web site login expires, and you have to re-enter
everything about the destination including the buyer's blood type. ) Then
there is discussion about the adequacy of packing, and what to write on the
outside of the package to avoid damage from rough handling or inspectors'
knives. The customs forms tend to differ depending on the exact service
chosen, even with the same shipping company. Then there is discussion about
what the tracking number might be. Unless you prepared for the shipping day
like a student cramming for a final, you sure didn't remember to ask the
clerk. (This applies mostly to postal service, as the private services tend
to help by telling you these things. This, and the terribly slow lines in
the post office are reasons why some would never consider the post office
unless it happens to save the foreign buyer a lot of money.) Then there are
usually followup emails after completed delivery.

Overall I think I spend at least half a day of my time on a completed
transaction with a foreign buyer. What is the value of my time? There is
some satisfaction from being helpful to a foreign ham, but it really isn't
worth it unless the foreign buyer is willing to bid substantially more than
domestic buyers. Fortunately this is often the case. However, one won't
generally get the benefit of that higher price if one sets a friendly, fixed
price. Next time I advertise something on this list, I may not set a fixed
price but announce an auction (off list, maybe on ebay).

73,

Erik K7TV

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JonKG6VDW

Private Sales of used Elecraft Rigs

HI Ray,

Its nothing personal. And its not the hassle really. After getting
stiffed three times on sales for various reasons (I really believe that
there was fraud involved in at least one case) I just can't afford to sell
things to people over seas. Granted it wasn't fellow hams but its just
easier to say no then try and make exceptions.

If you have a large enough business I suppose you have some kind of business
insurance against these types of losses but for private parties the
insurance provided by USPS and others is just inadequate and the risk too
great.

--
Thanks
Jon
KG6VDW
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

In reply to this post by K7TV

Erik,

A few comments before Eric S. shuts off this obviously OT discussion --.

Some of your points about excess communications apply no matter whether
the other ham is domestic or in a foreign country - I think we can blame
it more on the anxiety of the recipient rather than anything else.
Perhaps international shipping creates additional anxiety on both ends
for the inexperienced.

Recently, I had a package shipped to me - USPS and it had delivery
confirmation paid for and applied to it.
The sender did not bother check the tracking to see whether it was
delivered - he instead sent me an email (which I had to take the time
and effort to respond to) asking if I had received the parcel. So, if
that was his intent, why did he pay the $0.70 for delivery confirmation
service. And secondly, since he paid for DC service, why did he bother
me with questions when he could have inquired of the service he had paid
for? It all remains a mystery to me - why do some buy premium gasoline
when their cars are designed to run on regular? - it is one more of
those mysteries that make no real sense - take advantage of the services
that you are paying for, otherwise, why pay for them? If one does not
use them, then the cost is not justified.

Now consider - if he was determined to ask me if it was received, why
did he pay for delivery confirmation. And, since he did pay for
delivery confirmation, why did he not type the number in at USPS.com to
find out whether I had received it or not.

USPS has improved its tracking in the last year or so - before that, you
could tell when it was shipped and when it was delivered, but nothing in
between. They have improved, with real tracking information, so those
paying for delivery confirmation, the delivery confirmation number (or
in the case of international shipments, the customs number) will give
you the location of the parcel at any given time.

If you send a parcel through USPS with Delivery Confirmation, you can
now go to the USPS.com website and sign up for email notices of the
progress - if you are the shipper, you can request those notifications
be sent to the recipient (and you as well if you have interest) - that
is not automatic, but it is easy to do.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/2/2011 10:58 PM, Erik Basilier wrote:

>
> 2. With a foreign buyer, the number of emails exchanged before and
> after the sale tends to be 3 times the number with domestic buyers. First
> there is looking at different services to find one that is the best price
> including good insurance and estimated delivery time. (During this process,
> going back and forth, web site login expires, and you have to re-enter
> everything about the destination including the buyer's blood type. ) Then
> there is discussion about the adequacy of packing, and what to write on the
> outside of the package to avoid damage from rough handling or inspectors'
> knives. The customs forms tend to differ depending on the exact service
> chosen, even with the same shipping company. Then there is discussion about
> what the tracking number might be. Unless you prepared for the shipping day
> like a student cramming for a final, you sure didn't remember to ask the
> clerk. (This applies mostly to postal service, as the private services tend
> to help by telling you these things. This, and the terribly slow lines in
> the post office are reasons why some would never consider the post office
> unless it happens to save the foreign buyer a lot of money.) Then there are
> usually followup emails after completed delivery.
>
>
>
> Overall I think I spend at least half a day of my time on a completed
> transaction with a foreign buyer. What is the value of my time? There is
> some satisfaction from being helpful to a foreign ham, but it really isn't
> worth it unless the foreign buyer is willing to bid substantially more than
> domestic buyers. Fortunately this is often the case. However, one won't
> generally get the benefit of that higher price if one sets a friendly, fixed
> price. Next time I advertise something on this list, I may not set a fixed
> price but announce an auction (off list, maybe on ebay).
>
>

Nathan Hall

Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

In reply to this post by JonKG6VDW

Hi all,

A mail forwarding service may be of interest to some of you.

I personally use <http://www.shipito.com/>www.shipito.com they give you an
address in California and offer great discounts on shipping using USPS Fedex
or DHL.

I checked the price for the same 12x12x12 10 lbs 2000 dollar package to the
UK.

USPS priority mail 56 + 35 insurance
USPS express mail 75 + 16 insurance
Fed Ex economy 95 including insurance
Fed Ex priority 100 including insurance
DHL 80 including insurance

You complete your own customs declaration online

They charge a fee of 8 dollars on top of shipping for their service and they
are very efficient higly recommend to all of you.

I am currently shipping a K2 with ATU to Thailand from US shipping cost with
DHL is 100 dollars including the shipito service fee.

They have a shipping calculator on their site.

Best Regards

Nathan Hall HS0ZHG
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Johnny Siu

Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

Thanks, ,it sounds interesting to me

TNX & 73,

Johnny VR2XMC

從︰ Nathan Hall <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
傳送日期︰ 2011年06月3日 (週五) 1:01 PM
主題︰ [Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

Hi all,

A mail forwarding service may be of interest to some of you.

I personally use <http://www.shipito.com/>www.shipito.com they give you an
address in California and offer great discounts on shipping using USPS Fedex
or DHL.

I checked the price for the same 12x12x12 10 lbs 2000 dollar package to the
UK.

USPS priority mail 56 + 35 insurance
USPS express mail 75 + 16 insurance
Fed Ex economy 95 including insurance
Fed Ex priority 100 including insurance
DHL 80 including insurance

You complete your own customs declaration online

They charge a fee of 8 dollars on top of shipping for their service and they
are very efficient higly recommend to all of you.

I am currently shipping a K2 with ATU to Thailand from US shipping cost with
DHL is 100 dollars including the shipito service fee.

They have a shipping calculator on their site.

Best Regards

Nathan Hall HS0ZHG
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Jim Low man

Re: Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Even though I have the tracking information, as a final courtesy to the
buyer,
I send a follow-up e-mail to ensure not that it arrived, which I know,
but that
it arrived in the condition that it left my possession. I'm not happy
if the
buyer isn't.

Yes, USPS has improved their tracking system, I was recently able to
follow a
shipment from the origin to my mailbox. Before I'm not sure if I even knew
where it was coming from; only when to expect it in the mailbox.

Recently I ordered a Tablet PC from Amazon, and was surprised that they
shipped
it via USPS. What I can't figure out is the reason that it's scheduled
to take until
next Wednesday to get here from the Seattle area. When Amazon has shipped
books from Seattle previously, they took two business days to arrive,
whether
via USPS or UPS.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 6/2/2011 8:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Erik,
>
>
> Recently, I had a package shipped to me - USPS and it had delivery
> confirmation paid for and applied to it.
> The sender did not bother check the tracking to see whether it was
> delivered - he instead sent me an email (which I had to take the time
> and effort to respond to) asking if I had received the parcel. So, if
> that was his intent, why did he pay the $0.70 for delivery confirmation
> service. And secondly, since he paid for DC service, why did he bother
> me with questions when he could have inquired of the service he had paid
> for? It all remains a mystery to me - why do some buy premium gasoline
> when their cars are designed to run on regular? - it is one more of
> those mysteries that make no real sense - take advantage of the services
> that you are paying for, otherwise, why pay for them? If one does not
> use them, then the cost is not justified.
>
> USPS has improved its tracking in the last year or so - before that, you
> could tell when it was shipped and when it was delivered, but nothing in
> between. They have improved, with real tracking information, so those
> paying for delivery confirmation, the delivery confirmation number (or
> in the case of international shipments, the customs number) will give
> you the location of the parcel at any given time.
>
> If you send a parcel through USPS with Delivery Confirmation, you can
> now go to the USPS.com website and sign up for email notices of the
> progress - if you are the shipper, you can request those notifications
> be sent to the recipient (and you as well if you have interest) - that
> is not automatic, but it is easy to do.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>

N7US

Re: Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

You may be aware that the US Postal Service is in dire straits. This
week's Business Week has a thorough article on it.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_23/b4231060885070.htm

Jim N7US

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Fred Townsend

Re: Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

In reply to this post by Jim Low man

Remember Amazon ships from all over the country using the nearest stock.

de, Fred AE6QL

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Lowman
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 3:06 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

Even though I have the tracking information, as a final courtesy to the
buyer, I send a follow-up e-mail to ensure not that it arrived, which I
know, but that it arrived in the condition that it left my possession. I'm
not happy if the buyer isn't.

Yes, USPS has improved their tracking system, I was recently able to follow
a shipment from the origin to my mailbox. Before I'm not sure if I even
knew where it was coming from; only when to expect it in the mailbox.

Recently I ordered a Tablet PC from Amazon, and was surprised that they
shipped it via USPS. What I can't figure out is the reason that it's
scheduled to take until next Wednesday to get here from the Seattle area.
When Amazon has shipped books from Seattle previously, they took two
business days to arrive, whether via USPS or UPS.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 6/2/2011 8:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Erik,
>
>
> Recently, I had a package shipped to me - USPS and it had delivery
> confirmation paid for and applied to it.
> The sender did not bother check the tracking to see whether it was
> delivered - he instead sent me an email (which I had to take the time
> and effort to respond to) asking if I had received the parcel. So, if
> that was his intent, why did he pay the $0.70 for delivery
> confirmation service. And secondly, since he paid for DC service, why
> did he bother me with questions when he could have inquired of the
> service he had paid for? It all remains a mystery to me - why do some
> buy premium gasoline when their cars are designed to run on regular? -
> it is one more of those mysteries that make no real sense - take
> advantage of the services that you are paying for, otherwise, why pay
> for them? If one does not use them, then the cost is not justified.
>
> USPS has improved its tracking in the last year or so - before that,
> you could tell when it was shipped and when it was delivered, but
> nothing in between. They have improved, with real tracking
> information, so those paying for delivery confirmation, the delivery
> confirmation number (or in the case of international shipments, the
> customs number) will give you the location of the parcel at any given

time.

>
> If you send a parcel through USPS with Delivery Confirmation, you can
> now go to the USPS.com website and sign up for email notices of the
> progress - if you are the shipper, you can request those notifications
> be sent to the recipient (and you as well if you have interest) - that
> is not automatic, but it is easy to do.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>

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Phil Kane-2

Re: Private sales of used Elecraft Rigs

In reply to this post by K7TV

On 6/3/2011 3:06 PM, Jim Lowman wrote:

> Recently I ordered a Tablet PC from Amazon, and was surprised
> that they shipped it via USPS. What I can't figure out is the
> reason that it's scheduled to take until next Wednesday to get
> here from the Seattle area. When Amazon has shipped books from
> Seattle previously, they took two business days to arrive,
> whether via USPS or UPS.

Some shippers are now using a hybrid method where UPS sends the
shipment to a regional USPS distribution center and you then
get it via USPS. (Forgot the nickname of the service.)

The absurd situation that I experienced was that using the UPS
Tracking site I tracked a shipment sent on a Union Pacific RR
Z-train (hotshot UPS container train) from Los Angeles right
through Portland (OR) on the way to the Regional Center in
Kent, WA - across the state near Seattle - and then the USPS
brought it back to Portland for delivery. Added three days to
the shipment versus off-loading the container at UPS Portland
and out for delivery the next morning along with all the other
UPS stuff destined for Portland on that train.

--- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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