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Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

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Ted Roycraft

Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

I tried to connect LP_Bridge passing through the P3 to the K3 (the P3 is
supposed to be transparent to apps connecting to the K3 I understand)
and LP_Bridge failed to connect to the K3. Everything is set up to run
at 38400 baud and it worked fine without the P3 there. After fooling
around with it, I found that if I turned the P3 off before starting
LP_Bridge, it would connect to the K3. I could then turn on the P3 and
everything seems to work fine after that. I thought the P3 was
supposed to be transparent as far as RS-232 connections through to the
K3 are concerned but it seems that it isn't. It doesn't seem like a
significant problem since there is an easy workaround but it is a little
annoying. Has anyone else run into this?

73, Ted, W2ZK
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Gary Bartlett VE1RGB

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

Hi, Ted:

Yes, the LP-Bridge requires one to keep the P3 turned off until the
end.

LP-Bridge is not required, of course, but I had left mine in play
because I originally was running the P3 and the LP-PAN in parallel and
hadn't gotten around to reassigning COM ports to my logging programs when I
disconnected LP-PAN. I was still using that configuration when I tripped
over what you report.

I suppose the good news is that if anyone has LP-Bridge installed
for what ever reason, the P3 doesn't mind so long as you do what one always
has to do: set up the virtual ports first.

73,
Gary, VE1RGB

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ted Roycraft
Sent: August 7, 2010 6:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

I tried to connect LP_Bridge passing through the P3 to the K3
............... Has anyone else run into this?

73, Ted, W2ZK
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Ted Roycraft

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

Thanks Gary,

I have an LP-PAN and will continue to use it even though I have the P3.
It is still needed if you want to run CWSkimmer. Even if I weren't
going to use LP-PAN I would still want to keep LP-Bridge running because
it allows multiple programs to control the K3 - one of those things I've
gotten used to and now "can't live without". Maybe it is a nit on my
part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to apps
connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these kinds of
things.

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 8/8/2010 9:22 AM, gary bartlett wrote:

> Hi, Ted:
>
> Yes, the LP-Bridge requires one to keep the P3 turned off until the
> end.
>
> LP-Bridge is not required, of course, but I had left mine in play
> because I originally was running the P3 and the LP-PAN in parallel and
> hadn't gotten around to reassigning COM ports to my logging programs when I
> disconnected LP-PAN. I was still using that configuration when I tripped
> over what you report.
>
> I suppose the good news is that if anyone has LP-Bridge installed
> for what ever reason, the P3 doesn't mind so long as you do what one always
> has to do: set up the virtual ports first.
>
> 73,
> Gary, VE1RGB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ted Roycraft
> Sent: August 7, 2010 6:31 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3
>
> I tried to connect LP_Bridge passing through the P3 to the K3
> ............... Has anyone else run into this?
>
> 73, Ted, W2ZK
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>

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KK7P

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

> ... Maybe it is a nit on my
> part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to apps
> connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
> anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
> on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these kinds of
> things.

Absolutely!

We need this kind of feedback to help us improve the product. The P3 is
in its earliest rollout and we know there are bugs not yet found, and
there will be feature requests we hadn't thought of.

Please keep the feedback coming -- and look for updates!

73,

Lyle KK7P

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

>> ... Maybe it is a nit on my
>> part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to apps
>> connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
>> anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
>> on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these kinds of
>> things.

I would not be so quick to blame the P3. P3 works just fine with
microHAM Router and other port sharing software. It may be that
LP-Bridge is too critical of the timing or expects the K3 to respond
to a particular AI or K3 mode that is incompatible with the P3.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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Ted Roycraft

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

Nevertheless, it's not transparent. Maybe we should allow it to be
translucent? :-)

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 8/8/2010 12:22 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>
>>> ... Maybe it is a nit on my
>>> part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to apps
>>> connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
>>> anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
>>> on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these kinds of
>>> things.
>>>
> I would not be so quick to blame the P3. P3 works just fine with
> microHAM Router and other port sharing software. It may be that
> LP-Bridge is too critical of the timing or expects the K3 to respond
> to a particular AI or K3 mode that is incompatible with the P3.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

> Nevertheless, it's not transparent.

Depends on one's definition of "transparent." It appears to work with
every application I've thrown at it except for initializing LP-Bridge.
To me that implies an issue with LP-Bridge - perhaps an excessive
sensitivity to timing - not an issue with the P3/K3.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/8/2010 1:21 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote:

> Nevertheless, it's not transparent. Maybe we should allow it to be
> translucent? :-)
>
> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>
> On 8/8/2010 12:22 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>>>> ... Maybe it is a nit on my
>>>> part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to
>>>> apps
>>>> connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
>>>> anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
>>>> on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these kinds of
>>>> things.
>> I would not be so quick to blame the P3. P3 works just fine with
>> microHAM Router and other port sharing software. It may be that
>> LP-Bridge is too critical of the timing or expects the K3 to respond
>> to a particular AI or K3 mode that is incompatible with the P3.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>

Ted Roycraft

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

Do you know how the P3 is implementing the "transparency"? Why do you
feel it necessary to prejudge? Oh, right ...

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 8/8/2010 8:07 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> > Nevertheless, it's not transparent.
>
> Depends on one's definition of "transparent." It appears to work with
> every application I've thrown at it except for initializing LP-Bridge.
> To me that implies an issue with LP-Bridge - perhaps an excessive
> sensitivity to timing - not an issue with the P3/K3.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 8/8/2010 1:21 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote:
>> Nevertheless, it's not transparent. Maybe we should allow it to be
>> translucent? :-)
>>
>> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>>
>> On 8/8/2010 12:22 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>
>>>>> ... Maybe it is a nit on my
>>>>> part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to
>>>>> apps
>>>>> connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
>>>>> anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
>>>>> on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these
>>>>> kinds of
>>>>> things.
>>> I would not be so quick to blame the P3. P3 works just fine with
>>> microHAM Router and other port sharing software. It may be that
>>> LP-Bridge is too critical of the timing or expects the K3 to respond
>>> to a particular AI or K3 mode that is incompatible with the P3.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

alsopb

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

Even with the latest version of LP-BRIDGE (9.8), I continue to
experience some rig time outs. All occur during periods of transmitting
where one does not drop back to RX during that period. Direct connect
without LP-BRIDGE shows none of these. They happen even with the K3
throttled back to 5 W or less so RFI isn't the cause.

There certainly appear to be some timing issues with LP-BRIDGE/K3.

It occurs with no P3, two different rigs and two different logging programs.

Just what RS232 activity is permitted between the rig and LP-BRIDGE
during transmit? Are there blackout periods where the K3 will not
respond to polls?

The nature of the time out is that the logging program doesn't think the
K3 is attached any more.

73 de Brian/K3KO

Ted Roycraft wrote:

> Do you know how the P3 is implementing the "transparency"? Why do you
> feel it necessary to prejudge? Oh, right ...
>
> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>
> On 8/8/2010 8:07 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>> Nevertheless, it's not transparent.
>> Depends on one's definition of "transparent." It appears to work with
>> every application I've thrown at it except for initializing LP-Bridge.
>> To me that implies an issue with LP-Bridge - perhaps an excessive
>> sensitivity to timing - not an issue with the P3/K3.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 8/8/2010 1:21 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote:
>>> Nevertheless, it's not transparent. Maybe we should allow it to be
>>> translucent? :-)
>>>
>>> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>>>
>>> On 8/8/2010 12:22 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>>>> ... Maybe it is a nit on my
>>>>>> part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to
>>>>>> apps
>>>>>> connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
>>>>>> anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
>>>>>> on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these
>>>>>> kinds of
>>>>>> things.
>>>> I would not be so quick to blame the P3. P3 works just fine with
>>>> microHAM Router and other port sharing software. It may be that
>>>> LP-Bridge is too critical of the timing or expects the K3 to respond
>>>> to a particular AI or K3 mode that is incompatible with the P3.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

In reply to this post by Ted Roycraft

> Do you know how the P3 is implementing the "transparency"?

Only that it appears to implement it with all of the software
I've tested (except for LP-Bridge obviously).

> Why do you feel it necessary to prejudge?

Who is prejudging? If other software operates normally while
LP-Bridge which has many other reported issues (to the extent
that several developers require their users to document a bug
when LP-Bridge is NOT in use before it is considered a valid
bug report) is the only software not to operate correctly,
why do you arbitrarily blame the P3? Just because it is the
"last device added" is not a reason to expect the P3 to fix
potential problems with other software ... show the incorrect
operation first before expecting Elecraft to divert resources
to fix a problem that may not even exist.

> Oh, right ...

What does that mean?

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/8/2010 8:25 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote:

> Do you know how the P3 is implementing the "transparency"? Why do you
> feel it necessary to prejudge? Oh, right ...
>
> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>
> On 8/8/2010 8:07 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>> > Nevertheless, it's not transparent.
>>
>> Depends on one's definition of "transparent." It appears to work with
>> every application I've thrown at it except for initializing LP-Bridge.
>> To me that implies an issue with LP-Bridge - perhaps an excessive
>> sensitivity to timing - not an issue with the P3/K3.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 8/8/2010 1:21 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote:
>>> Nevertheless, it's not transparent. Maybe we should allow it to be
>>> translucent? :-)
>>>
>>> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>>>
>>> On 8/8/2010 12:22 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> ... Maybe it is a nit on my
>>>>>> part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to
>>>>>> apps
>>>>>> connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
>>>>>> anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
>>>>>> on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these
>>>>>> kinds of
>>>>>> things.
>>>> I would not be so quick to blame the P3. P3 works just fine with
>>>> microHAM Router and other port sharing software. It may be that
>>>> LP-Bridge is too critical of the timing or expects the K3 to respond
>>>> to a particular AI or K3 mode that is incompatible with the P3.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Ted Roycraft

Re: Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

In reply to this post by Ted Roycraft

Alan,

Thanks for your note. I do have all the players, the K3, P3, and
LP-Bridge, set up for 38400 baud so I don't think that's the problem.
I'll experiment more tonight with different parameters in LP-Bridge to
see if I can see what sensitivities there are. I'll let you know.

Thanks,
73, Ted, W2ZK

On 8/9/2010 1:27 AM, Alan Bloom wrote:

> Hi Ted,
>
> I can't confirm the problem here. I did the following:
>
> I'm using a laptop with a KUSB USB-to-RS232 converter. First I had to
> determine the proper COM port, so I started LP-PAN with the P3 turned
> off and played with COM port selection until it worked.
>
> Then I turned off the K3 and the P3 and ended the LP-PAN application.
>
> Then I turned everything back on, re-started LP-PAN, clicked on
> "Connect" and it found the K3 right away with the P3 turned on.
>
> There has been some confusion among users about baud rates. We are
> going to add a section to the manual to clarify this. The baud rate of
> LP-PAN must match the baud rate of the P3 and _NOT_ the baud rate of the
> K3, even when LP-PAN is talking to the K3.
>
> Communications between the P3 and the K3 are always at 38400 baud. If
> you try to change the baud rate of the K3, the P3 will just change it
> back to 38400. The baud rate of the serial port that connects to the
> computer must be set in the P3. There is a MENU command "RS232" to do
> that or you can do it over the RS-232 port using the "BR" command, which
> is the same as the K3 "BR" command except that it is actually being
> responded to by the P3, not the K3.
>
> Hopefully, that was the problem.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>
> On Sun, 2010-08-08 at 11:16 -0400, Ted Roycraft wrote:
>
>> Thanks Gary,
>>
>> I have an LP-PAN and will continue to use it even though I have the P3.
>> It is still needed if you want to run CWSkimmer. Even if I weren't
>> going to use LP-PAN I would still want to keep LP-Bridge running because
>> it allows multiple programs to control the K3 - one of those things I've
>> gotten used to and now "can't live without". Maybe it is a nit on my
>> part but the RS-232 port on the P3 is supposed to be transparent to apps
>> connecting to the K3 via RS-232 and it isn't - not strictly speaking
>> anyway since LP-Bridge hangs while connecting to the K3 if the P3 is
>> on. I figure now is the time to get Elecraft to address these kinds of
>> things.
>>
>> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>>
>> On 8/8/2010 9:22 AM, gary bartlett wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Ted:
>>>
>>> Yes, the LP-Bridge requires one to keep the P3 turned off until the
>>> end.
>>>
>>> LP-Bridge is not required, of course, but I had left mine in play
>>> because I originally was running the P3 and the LP-PAN in parallel and
>>> hadn't gotten around to reassigning COM ports to my logging programs when I
>>> disconnected LP-PAN. I was still using that configuration when I tripped
>>> over what you report.
>>>
>>> I suppose the good news is that if anyone has LP-Bridge installed
>>> for what ever reason, the P3 doesn't mind so long as you do what one always
>>> has to do: set up the virtual ports first.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Gary, VE1RGB
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ted Roycraft
>>> Sent: August 7, 2010 6:31 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3
>>>
>>> I tried to connect LP_Bridge passing through the P3 to the K3
>>> ............... Has anyone else run into this?
>>>
>>> 73, Ted, W2ZK
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>
>
>
>
>

Ted Roycraft

Re: [P3] Problem connecting LP_Bridge through the P3 to the K3

In reply to this post by Ted Roycraft

Al,

The problem that I reported being unable to connect LP_Bridge to the K3
passing through the P3 when it the P3 was powered on seems to be fixed
in the P3 V0.31 beta firmware.

Thank you!

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 8/7/2010 5:31 PM, Ted Roycraft wrote:

> I tried to connect LP_Bridge passing through the P3 to the K3 (the P3 is
> supposed to be transparent to apps connecting to the K3 I understand)
> and LP_Bridge failed to connect to the K3. Everything is set up to run
> at 38400 baud and it worked fine without the P3 there. After fooling
> around with it, I found that if I turned the P3 off before starting
> LP_Bridge, it would connect to the K3. I could then turn on the P3 and
> everything seems to work fine after that. I thought the P3 was
> supposed to be transparent as far as RS-232 connections through to the
> K3 are concerned but it seems that it isn't. It doesn't seem like a
> significant problem since there is an easy workaround but it is a little
> annoying. Has anyone else run into this?
>
> 73, Ted, W2ZK
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
>