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Problem with K3 receive audio

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Tom-18

Problem with K3 receive audio

I owned and assembled a K3/100 about two years ago and was impressed with
the high quality of the radio, its design and support from other owners and
Elecraft.

Everything about it worked fine except that it seemed that I could never
quite adjust the sound of a person on SSB to the point where it was a
pleasant, (what I call)

"mellow", armchair-type copy. It seemed too shrill, it had a "high edge" to
it that couldn't be adjusted out.

At first, I thought there was something in a menu setting or a control I was
using incorrectly that wasn't allowing me to add more "lows" (if that's what
you call it) that was

causing the problem, but that wasn't the case. I called Elecraft and talk to
people about it, but no cause could be found. I kept it for about two
months then sold it.

Years have gone by and I am still very impressed with the quality of your
product and company and would like to put together an "Elecraft Shack". I
am wondering if the

changes that have taken place over the past few years in the programming of
the K3 might have solved the "problem" I experienced a few years ago or
maybe it is just

my level of hearing that is the problem.

Does anyone remember experiencing something similar with your K3 or heard
about a possible solution?

Thanks for any info you could provide.

73

Tom

N3XQ

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w0mu

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

The new DSP board addresses some of those concerns. Moving FC of the
SSB filters helps a bunch too.

On 4/9/11 10:49 AM, Tom Stone wrote:

> I owned and assembled a K3/100 about two years ago and was impressed with
> the high quality of the radio, its design and support from other owners and
> Elecraft.
>
> Everything about it worked fine except that it seemed that I could never
> quite adjust the sound of a person on SSB to the point where it was a
> pleasant, (what I call)
>
> "mellow", armchair-type copy. It seemed too shrill, it had a "high edge" to
> it that couldn't be adjusted out.
>
>
>
> At first, I thought there was something in a menu setting or a control I was
> using incorrectly that wasn't allowing me to add more "lows" (if that's what
> you call it) that was
>
> causing the problem, but that wasn't the case. I called Elecraft and talk to
> people about it, but no cause could be found. I kept it for about two
> months then sold it.
>
>
>
> Years have gone by and I am still very impressed with the quality of your
> product and company and would like to put together an "Elecraft Shack". I
> am wondering if the
>
> changes that have taken place over the past few years in the programming of
> the K3 might have solved the "problem" I experienced a few years ago or
> maybe it is just
>
> my level of hearing that is the problem.
>
>
>
> Does anyone remember experiencing something similar with your K3 or heard
> about a possible solution?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any info you could provide.
>
>
>
> 73
>
>
>
> Tom
>
> N3XQ
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Phil LaMarche-2

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

In reply to this post by Tom-18

The K3 has wonderful arm chair audio. Even though you can adjust the audio
in the menu, I use a S/W program K3_EZ that can set up your K3 without going
in the menu. You can set both receive and transmit audio. I also run the
K3 through an amplifier that feeds two great book case speakers mounted on
the wall pointed at me. That's for SSB and AM. I use head phones for CW.
I've owned mine for 4 years and wouldn't ever trade or sell it. Just
ordered the KPA500. Get another and be pleased every day. Licensed 62
years.

Phil

Philip LaMarche

LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
[hidden email]
www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com

727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell

www.w9dvm.com

K3 #1605

CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Stone
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:49 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Problem with K3 receive audio

I owned and assembled a K3/100 about two years ago and was impressed with
the high quality of the radio, its design and support from other owners and
Elecraft.

Everything about it worked fine except that it seemed that I could never
quite adjust the sound of a person on SSB to the point where it was a
pleasant, (what I call)

"mellow", armchair-type copy. It seemed too shrill, it had a "high edge" to
it that couldn't be adjusted out.

At first, I thought there was something in a menu setting or a control I was
using incorrectly that wasn't allowing me to add more "lows" (if that's what
you call it) that was

causing the problem, but that wasn't the case. I called Elecraft and talk to
people about it, but no cause could be found. I kept it for about two
months then sold it.

Years have gone by and I am still very impressed with the quality of your
product and company and would like to put together an "Elecraft Shack". I
am wondering if the

changes that have taken place over the past few years in the programming of
the K3 might have solved the "problem" I experienced a few years ago or
maybe it is just

my level of hearing that is the problem.

Does anyone remember experiencing something similar with your K3 or heard
about a possible solution?

Thanks for any info you could provide.

73

Tom

N3XQ

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KXBill

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

In reply to this post by w0mu

Tom:
My K3 (300 series) does the same. Shifting the Filter Band Pass to the low side does help my ears. I normally do not have a problem with high pitched audio as my hearing starts down hill above 1300 Hz, but not so with the K3 audio. I eventually learned to live with it.

Carry-on
Bill-w7kxb/7

> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 10:57:38 -0600
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Problem with K3 receive audio
>
> The new DSP board addresses some of those concerns. Moving FC of the
> SSB filters helps a bunch too.
>
> On 4/9/11 10:49 AM, Tom Stone wrote:
> > I owned and assembled a K3/100 about two years ago and was impressed with
> > the high quality of the radio, its design and support from other owners and
> > Elecraft.
> >
> > Everything about it worked fine except that it seemed that I could never
> > quite adjust the sound of a person on SSB to the point where it was a
> > pleasant, (what I call)
> >
> > "mellow", armchair-type copy. It seemed too shrill, it had a "high edge" to
> > it that couldn't be adjusted out.

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

In reply to this post by Tom-18

> At first, I thought there was something in a menu setting or a
> control I wasusing incorrectly that wasn't allowing me to add more
> "lows" (if that's what you call it) that was causing the problem, but
> that wasn't the case.I called Elecraft and talk to people about
> it, but no cause could be found. I kept it for about two months
> then sold it.

There have been changes to the DSP board to allow more lows (remove
a low frequency roll off) with low impedance headphones and a high
cut filter has been added to remove noise from the digital to analog
converter above 4.5 KHz. Those changes may help your perception of
the receiver audio but I believe what you were hearing was the flat
response of the K3.

Unlike just about any other receiver I've tested, the K3 has an
absolutely flat response 100 Hz to 4 KHz other than ripple in the
first IF ("roofing") filter. Other receivers show a pronounced
roll-off starting between 1000 and 1500 Hz - between 3 and 6 dB
per octave.

> Does anyone remember experiencing something similar with your K3 or
> heard about a possible solution?

It is quite easy to create that "warm" sound with the K3. Simply
use the RX EQ to duplicate the roll-off you are used to hearing.
Setting 1600 Hz to -3, 2400 Hz to -5 and 3200 Hz to -6 "warms up"
the receive audio nicely. Use -6/-10/-12 if you want an even more
"mellow" sound.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/9/2011 12:49 PM, Tom Stone wrote:

Guy, K2AV

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

Should point out that the TX and RX EQ feature came later on as a
firmware upgrade, but I would definitely agree that post DSP board
upgrade and RX EQ, you can make it sound like anything you want,
including "shrill" for the contests. The K3 is the only RX that I
have ever had that can receive music on SSB and have it sound normal.

And no, we are definitely not used to "flat" response.

There have been MANY improvements since it was introduced, almost
entirely customer-requested. SDR rocks.

73, Guy.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> At first, I thought there was something in a menu setting or a
>> control I wasusing incorrectly that wasn't allowing me to add more
>> "lows" (if that's what you call it) that was causing the problem, but
>> that wasn't the case.I called Elecraft and talk to people about
> > it, but no cause could be found. I kept it for about two months
> > then sold it.
>
> There have been changes to the DSP board to allow more lows (remove
> a low frequency roll off) with low impedance headphones and a high
> cut filter has been added to remove noise from the digital to analog
> converter above 4.5 KHz. Those changes may help your perception of
> the receiver audio but I believe what you were hearing was the flat
> response of the K3.
>
> Unlike just about any other receiver I've tested, the K3 has an
> absolutely flat response 100 Hz to 4 KHz other than ripple in the
> first IF ("roofing") filter. Other receivers show a pronounced
> roll-off starting between 1000 and 1500 Hz - between 3 and 6 dB
> per octave.
>
>> Does anyone remember experiencing something similar with your K3 or
>> heard about a possible solution?
>
> It is quite easy to create that "warm" sound with the K3. Simply
> use the RX EQ to duplicate the roll-off you are used to hearing.
> Setting 1600 Hz to -3, 2400 Hz to -5 and 3200 Hz to -6 "warms up"
> the receive audio nicely. Use -6/-10/-12 if you want an even more
> "mellow" sound.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 4/9/2011 12:49 PM, Tom Stone wrote:
>> I owned and assembled a K3/100 about two years ago and was impressed with
>> the high quality of the radio, its design and support from other owners and
>> Elecraft.
>>
>> Everything about it worked fine except that it seemed that I could never
>> quite adjust the sound of a person on SSB to the point where it was a
>> pleasant, (what I call)
>>
>> "mellow", armchair-type copy. It seemed too shrill, it had a "high edge" to
>> it that couldn't be adjusted out.
>>
>>
>>
>> At first, I thought there was something in a menu setting or a control I was
>> using incorrectly that wasn't allowing me to add more "lows" (if that's what
>> you call it) that was
>>
>> causing the problem, but that wasn't the case. I called Elecraft and talk to
>> people about it, but no cause could be found. I kept it for about two
>> months then sold it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Years have gone by and I am still very impressed with the quality of your
>> product and company and would like to put together an "Elecraft Shack". I
>> am wondering if the
>>
>> changes that have taken place over the past few years in the programming of
>> the K3 might have solved the "problem" I experienced a few years ago or
>> maybe it is just
>>
>> my level of hearing that is the problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone remember experiencing something similar with your K3 or heard
>> about a possible solution?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for any info you could provide.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> N3XQ
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

k6dgw

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

My K3 is #642. It sounds fine on SSB. I do shift the passband down a
notch or two but that's because I can't hear much above about 1 KHz. Do
I need to upgrade the DSP board?

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org

On 4/9/2011 1:55 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> Should point out that the TX and RX EQ feature came later on as a
> firmware upgrade, but I would definitely agree that post DSP board
> upgrade and RX EQ, you can make it sound like anything you want,
> including "shrill" for the contests. The K3 is the only RX that I
> have ever had that can receive music on SSB and have it sound normal.
______________________________________________________________
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

Fred,

> Do I need to upgrade the DSP board?

I added the lowpass filter but did not do a complete DPS board
upgrade. My headphones, including the CM-500 are all high
enough impedance that I don't notice any significant low end
loss (I set the 50 Hz and 100 Hz bands to -16 dB anyway) so
I could not see any benefit to a change.

The DSP board makes no difference in speaker or Line Out audio
so if your headphone impedance is about 150 Ohms or so, I would
not worry about the change unless the high frequency DAC leakage
is a problem.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/9/2011 5:41 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> My K3 is #642. It sounds fine on SSB. I do shift the passband down a
> notch or two but that's because I can't hear much above about 1 KHz. Do
> I need to upgrade the DSP board?
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
> - www.cqp.org
>
> On 4/9/2011 1:55 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>> Should point out that the TX and RX EQ feature came later on as a
>> firmware upgrade, but I would definitely agree that post DSP board
>> upgrade and RX EQ, you can make it sound like anything you want,
>> including "shrill" for the contests. The K3 is the only RX that I
>> have ever had that can receive music on SSB and have it sound normal.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

KD7PY

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

In reply to this post by Tom-18

I also had the same problem as Tom did, I bought my K3 a little over 2 years ago ( ser # 22xx range)

I use mine only for VHF work, an with the rig running in the background listing for band openings I was getting headache's...could figure it out for the longest time but some complants on the reflector got me looking into it. so i sold the K3

3 months later Elecraft came out with the DSP/ lowpass filter mod for the K3. The person that bought my rig had the mods done and said it made a very big improvement.....

I waited a while and watched what the others posted about the up grade and it was good.
so I went and bought another K3....

all I can say is it is a all toghter a different rig than the first one. the high frq artifacts are gone and the receive audio is very pleasent.

it's just that I can't keep up with all the up grades that Elecraft keep comming up with........

Don't think the Elecraft crew ever sleep......

I love the APF........

Ed K7WIA

Guy, K2AV

Re: Problem with K3 receive audio

In reply to this post by k6dgw

I found that the upgraded board removed a harshness which I always
thought sounded like distortion, and this in spite of my reduced
hearing at those frequencies. I think it actually does some more that
is not alluded to by Elecraft. My guess is that the low end change is
involved in some level of distortion improvement.

Most people are very happy they did the mod. Swapping the board and
sending the swapped out board back to Elecraft is really fairly easy.
But don't order the board until you're ready to do the work and send
the old board back promptly. The swap board is an Elecraft personnel
refurbished board that someone else sent in. That allows them to run
the program without making stocking decisions.

73, Guy.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> My K3 is #642. It sounds fine on SSB. I do shift the passband down a
> notch or two but that's because I can't hear much above about 1 KHz. Do
> I need to upgrade the DSP board?
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
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