Product suggestion - Remote Panel for the K3

[dj7mgq]

Hi,

as a cliff dweller in a large German city, with no chance of putting  
up my own antennas, according to the landlord, I am looking into  
possibilities of setting up a remote controlled station via the  
Internet using my K3.

Unfortunately, the front panel of the K3 is not easily detachable.

I would like to suggest that Elecraft might want look in to the  
feasibility of offering a remoting box for the K3 with a K3 like front  
panel, which (together with interface equipment such as the Remoterig  
RRC-1258MkII) would offer complete, low latency control of the K3.  
Possibly such a box could also offer optional control of rotors,  
transverters, antenna switching, PAs, etc.

I know at least one one OM, a contester, here in DL, who is using the  
RRC-1258MkII hardware the together with the detachable front of the  
Kenwood TS-480 via the Internet (ADSL) to control his day to day  
station. I haven't tried it out yet, but his experience appears to be  
surprisingly positive. The separate front panel is a really neat  
solution for this type of usage. Afaik, Remoterig uses a hardware  
codec, offering very low audio latency and a network latency jitter  
correction for CW keying. I don't know how well know the remote  
control system RRC-1258MkII is in the States, but there is a lot of  
information here <http://www.remoterig.com/>.


vy 73 de toby, DD5FZ


Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Remoterig and have no personal  
experience with it as of now.



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[dj7mgq]

Hi,

as a cliff dweller in a large German city, with no chance of putting
up my own antennas, according to the landlord, I am looking into
possibilities of setting up a remote controlled station via the
Internet using my K3.

Unfortunately, the front panel of the K3 is not easily detachable.

I would like to suggest that Elecraft might want look in to the
feasibility of offering a remoting box for the K3 with a K3 like
front panel, which (together with interface equipment such as the
Remoterig RRC-1258MkII) would offer complete, low latency control of
the K3. Possibly such a box could also offer optional control of
rotors, transverters, antenna switching, PAs, etc.

I know at least one one OM, a contester, here in DL, who is using the
RRC-1258MkII hardware the together with the detachable front of the
Kenwood TS-480 via the Internet (ADSL) to control his day to day
station. I haven't tried it out yet, but his experience appears to be
surprisingly positive. The separate front panel is a really neat
solution for this type of usage. Afaik, Remoterig uses a hardware
codec, offering very low audio latency and a network latency jitter
correction for CW keying. I don't know how well know the remote
control system RRC-1258MkII is in the States, but there is a lot of
information here <http://www.remoterig.com/>.


vy 73 de toby, DD5FZ


Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Remoterig and have no personal
experience with it as of now.


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[juergen piezo]

Hi Toby

A company called Glentech Corporation makes a controller that you might find useful.

see: www.glentekcorp.com

There is a short takes review in QST Feb 2010 page 58.

73
John

--- On Thu, 2/18/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Product suggestion - Remote Panel for the K3
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:53 AM
> Hi,
>
> as a cliff dweller in a large German city, with no chance
> of putting 
> up my own antennas, according to the landlord, I am looking
> into 
> possibilities of setting up a remote controlled station via
> the 
> Internet using my K3.
>
> Unfortunately, the front panel of the K3 is not easily
> detachable.
>
> I would like to suggest that Elecraft might want look in to
> the 
> feasibility of offering a remoting box for the K3 with a K3
> like front 
> panel, which (together with interface equipment such as the
> Remoterig 
> RRC-1258MkII) would offer complete, low latency control of
> the K3. 
> Possibly such a box could also offer optional control of
> rotors, 
> transverters, antenna switching, PAs, etc.
>
> I know at least one one OM, a contester, here in DL, who is
> using the 
> RRC-1258MkII hardware the together with the detachable
> front of the 
> Kenwood TS-480 via the Internet (ADSL) to control his day
> to day 
> station. I haven't tried it out yet, but his experience
> appears to be 
> surprisingly positive. The separate front panel is a really
> neat 
> solution for this type of usage. Afaik, Remoterig uses a
> hardware 
> codec, offering very low audio latency and a network
> latency jitter 
> correction for CW keying. I don't know how well know the
> remote 
> control system RRC-1258MkII is in the States, but there is
> a lot of 
> information here <http://www.remoterig.com/>.
>
>
> vy 73 de toby, DD5FZ
>
>
> Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Remoterig and have no
> personal 
> experience with it as of now.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

     
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[Julian, G4ILO]

Why not just use HRD or one of the many other software based options to remote control the radio?

The TS-480 front panel was designed to be remoted, so all you need to do is find a way to transfer its communications with the main box via the internet instead of a direct connection. The K3 front panel, as you know, is an integral part of the radio so Elecraft would have to design an entirely new and separate unit that looked like a K3 front panel but converted every knob rotation or button press to software commands. It could be done, but it would be difficult and expensive and I doubt that there would be sufficient demand for it from the 4000 or so K3 users to make such a product economically viable.

[dj7mgq]

Hallo Julian,

How economically viable a remote control box may or may not be and  
whether there are software hooks already available in the firmware,  
which would make this doable without an exhorbitant effort, would have  
to be judged by Elecraft. At any rate, at least here in Germany, it  
has become incresingly impossible for Hams to install antennas at  
home, especially in residental areas, so there may be a larger market  
for these kinds of products then one otherwise might think.

> Why not just use HRD or one of the many other software
> based options to remote control the radio?

A few reasons:

1) I use WinTest as logging software, especially during contests, and  
plan on doing so in the future. WinTest does not give you total  
control of the radio. The K3 "only" has one serial port, which would  
seem to preclude using a second bit of software simultaneously to  
control the rest of the radio's functions.

2) The interface of the K3's front panel is, imho, very good the way  
it is and not easily, in similar quality, replaceable with a computer  
keyboard, screen and mouse.

3) Encoding and decoding audio streams in a PC will, I think, cause  
more latency than a dedicated solution ala Remoterig. Latency is going  
to be a problem via the Internet anyhow, so anything which keeps it  
down is good.


vy 73 de toby



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[Julian, G4ILO]

Toby Deinhardt wrote

How economically viable a remote control box may or may not be and  
whether there are software hooks already available in the firmware,  
which would make this doable without an exhorbitant effort, would have  
to be judged by Elecraft.

True, but it seemed a reasonable conclusion to jump to, especially when they are under a lot of customer pressure to develop other products such as linears.

1) I use WinTest as logging software, especially during contests, and  
plan on doing so in the future. WinTest does not give you total  
control of the radio. The K3 "only" has one serial port, which would  
seem to preclude using a second bit of software simultaneously to  
control the rest of the radio's functions.

Wouldn't VSPE or LP-Bridge solve that problem?

<quote>
2) The interface of the K3's front panel is, imho, very good the way  
it is and not easily, in similar quality, replaceable with a computer  
keyboard, screen and mouse.
<quote>

I agree, it's one reason I prefer using a real radio to an SDR. Perhaps in the future, when SDRs become more ubiquitous, someone will come up with a generic product that will allow people to design custom hardware interfaces to fully software defined radios.

3) Encoding and decoding audio streams in a PC will, I think, cause  
more latency than a dedicated solution ala Remoterig. Latency is going  
to be a problem via the Internet anyhow, so anything which keeps it  
down is good.

I have no experience of Remoterig but most people seem to use Skype for remote audio and seem happy with it. I have used the W4MQ software and Skype to access a remote TS2000 and the audio was excellent in both directions. I wasn't aware of significant latency.

[Bob - W0GI]

First off, LP-Bridge takes care of running multiple programs into the K3. It operates just like a network router allow multlple computers to use a single internet connection, only in this case it uses a single RS-232 port. I can run PowerSDR-IF, HRD, CW-Skimmer, K3_EZ, K3_Util, at the same time, and I still have a Virtual Com Port available for  yet another program. It's free and it works.

As for number 2, I like the knobs also, but you can make the PC work just fine.

Number 3, why would the latency be any different whether it was hardware or Skype. It's VOIP anyway you look at it. Streaming audio doesn't take much bandwidth, so it's not an issue. But if you want to use hardware, you already know of the two available hardware solutions.

I had remote setup in a few hours with HRD, and it works fine.  

<<<<<<<<<<<<<
A few reasons:

1) I use WinTest as logging software, especially during contests, and  
plan on doing so in the future. WinTest does not give you total  
control of the radio. The K3 "only" has one serial port..... >>>>>>>>>>>>

[dj7mgq]

Hi Julian,

> Wouldn't VSPE or LP-Bridge solve that problem?

LP-Bridge might be able to handle this. Thank you for pointing it out.

> I have no experience of Remoterig but most people seem to use Skype for
> remote audio and seem happy with it.

My experience with Skype indicates that there is a fair amount loss  
(lossy compression? Packet loss?) of audio quality, which would not be  
good for digital modes. I agree that, Skype latency usually does not  
appear to be too poor. It would however require PCs at both locations,  
which Remoterig does not.

vy 73 de toby

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[dj7mgq]

Hi Bob,

> ...LP-Bridge...

Do you have any experience with how well LP-Bridge handles the timing  
of the RS-232 handshake lines in keying scenarios such as with  
FSK/MTTY or with CW/contest logging software?

vy 73 de toby

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[Bob - W0GI]

Hi Toby,

For keying, I have only used HRD. I don't think you would have a problem, but here are a couple good places to check. An Email to Larry N8LP might also be a good way to get details.

http://www.telepostinc.com/LPB.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LP-PAN/

You can also setup LP-Bridge to log the data on the main and virtual ports, to see what is going on.

You may also want to download the K3 Programer's reference from elecraft.com. There are a couple issues using RIT/XIT through HRD, as there is no slider defined. It appears that you need to send step commands to adjust RIT/XIT up or down. I will be working on a way to do it on HRD, unless Simon comes up with something on a slider.

A remote front panel would be nice, but I think we are stuck with what we have for now. Unless I am running remote, I still use the knobs on the K3, even when running HRD and DN780.

You can download LP-Bridge for free, so give it a try.

73, Bob



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Do you have any experience with how well LP-Bridge handles the timing  
of the RS-232 handshake lines in keying scenarios such as with  
FSK/MTTY or with CW/contest logging software?

vy 73 de toby
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>