QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
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QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
 
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Anyone have any experience trying QRP from the bottom of the big hole? I
will be backpacking the week of September 6-12 in the Grand Canyon, and would like to take my KX-1, but I don't want the weight if I will just be talking to myself. Anyone have any experience from the bottom of the Canyon (specifically at the sunspot pits or at Bright Angel campground)? Thanks, Mike, K4GU _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
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Mike
You will want a high angle radiator such as a low dipole a few feet off the ground or say an inverted vee with a 20ft apex. An end fed wire may work for you also. Early evenings and early mornings 80 m will give the best vertical bounce (NVIS) out of the canyon. Bruce Grubbs is an avid QRPer and has operated many times in the Grand Canyon and you may want to contact Bruce N7CEE _mail@brucegrubbs.com_ (mailto:[hidden email]) Alan KB7MBI Woodinville, WA FISTS 5702 CC: 1885 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
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Administrator
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In reply to this post by Mike and Alicia Fanning
Mike Fanning wrote:
> Anyone have any experience trying QRP from the bottom of the big hole? > I > will be backpacking the week of September 6-12 in the Grand Canyon, and > would like to take my KX-1... Mike, I think your chances of making contacts is very good. If you have a low dipole or random wire, you'll get some vertical radiation (in fact, most of it :) and with this "NVIS" antenna I'd be surprised if you didn't work a few stations on 40 meters, any time of the day. There's also a form of HF ducting that occurs in long river gorges near the 36th parallel, peaking in the first week of September, often on a Thursday. This is a hazardous time for migratory waterfowl of the Kaibab plateau, whose normal sensitivity to the Earth's magnetic field is disrupted by intense ionization that propagates along the limestone walls. The visual effect, celebrated as "duck-ducting" by Havasu indians, is documented in canyon petroglyphs. Of course it was only hundreds of years later that their descendants, using early radio receivers, were able to truly appreciate the phenomenon across the full spectrum. Apparently it was quite messy. Based on an historical analysis of such reports, I think you can expect long QSOs into Provo, Utah. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
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In reply to this post by Mike and Alicia Fanning
I have recent experience with a KX1 in a similar but less severe valley:
I operated recently from 3 spots in Yosemite: - down in the valley (KX1, RX only) - atop an 8000' granite dome with 2 wires on the ground (KX1, one contact in 15 minutes) - just south of the park in a forested area at about 5000' (K2, several contacts both CW and SSB) The best results were the 5000' spot, but I heard plenty of 30m DX down in the valley, mostly South America and Mexico. I made no contacts in the 30 minutes I spent listening in the Valley, but the results of the RX there were encouraging. Leigh/WA5ZNU Mike and Alicia Fanning wrote: > Anyone have any experience trying QRP from the bottom of the big hole? I > will be backpacking the week of September 6-12 in the Grand Canyon, and > would like to take my KX-1, but I don't want the weight if I will just be > talking to myself. Anyone have any experience from the bottom of the Canyon > (specifically at the sunspot pits or at Bright Angel campground)? > > Thanks, > Mike, K4GU > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Mike and Alicia Fanning
Read Dr. Bob Armstrongs (N7XJ) trip down into the Grand Canyon with his KX1
in the ARS Journal at http://www.arsqrp.com/ars/pages/back_issues/2004_text/0804_text/N7XJ.html It has lots of cool pictures. Go to http://www.arsqrp.com/ars/pages/cumlative_index/adventures.html and read all the past adventures. Paul w0rw _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
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In reply to this post by Mike and Alicia Fanning
Mike,
Although conditions can be rough here at the bottom of the solar cycle, you'll almost always be able to work someone, even from deep canyons such as Bright Angel Canyon at the campground. And often you'll find that the horizon is actually that high, from places like the Tonto Plateau and the other terraces that trails and routes tend to follow. Since it sounds like you're hiking the Kaibab-Bright Angel Trails or some variation, you could try operating at lunchtime or another time during the hiking day when you're more in the open than at night camp. (If you care to tell me your plans I can be more specific.) Most of the South Kaibab Trail is on a ridge where you would have low horizons in all directions except south. At Indian Gardens on the Bright Angel, you have a fairly low horizon to the northwest through northeast. And on the North Kaibab south of Cottonwood Camp you would have a low horizon to the south and southwest. Since the Canyon is to large and complex, it's more like hiking in big mountains than in a single, deep canyon. Although there are places... 72 and have fun on your trip, Bruce N7CEE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Thanks Wayne. My preferred operating antenna (strictly from a convenience
standpoint) has been a vertical wire with 1/4 wave counterpoises for 20, 30, and 40 m tied to a BNC to binding post adapter on the KX-1. Not sure how that would play in this case... If I carry the rig into the hole, I will post after the trip to let everyone know how I fared. Personally, I was hoping for some directional gain broadside to the gorge courtesy of the Vishnu effect (also documented in the propagation journals as "schist happens"). Unfortunately, I understand that this phenomenon is primarily in play on Wednesdays, which is my travel day. Oh, and by the way, you and Eric keep up the great work. 73, Mike, K4GU -----Original Message----- From: wayne burdick [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:24 AM To: Mike and Alicia Fanning Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon Mike Fanning wrote: > Anyone have any experience trying QRP from the bottom of the big hole? > I > will be backpacking the week of September 6-12 in the Grand Canyon, and > would like to take my KX-1... Mike, I think your chances of making contacts is very good. If you have a low dipole or random wire, you'll get some vertical radiation (in fact, most of it :) and with this "NVIS" antenna I'd be surprised if you didn't work a few stations on 40 meters, any time of the day. There's also a form of HF ducting that occurs in long river gorges near the 36th parallel, peaking in the first week of September, often on a Thursday. This is a hazardous time for migratory waterfowl of the Kaibab plateau, whose normal sensitivity to the Earth's magnetic field is disrupted by intense ionization that propagates along the limestone walls. The visual effect, celebrated as "duck-ducting" by Havasu indians, is documented in canyon petroglyphs. Of course it was only hundreds of years later that their descendants, using early radio receivers, were able to truly appreciate the phenomenon across the full spectrum. Apparently it was quite messy. Based on an historical analysis of such reports, I think you can expect long QSOs into Provo, Utah. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
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In reply to this post by Mike and Alicia Fanning
Mike;
In the 1970's, W6JTH and myself took a HW-7 into the bottom of the Grand Canyon in the area of Deer Creek and Thunder River/Tapeats Creek. We were able to work some stations on 40 meters, all within a few hundred miles of the canyon. We were not able to make any contacts on 20 or 15 meters. -John KI6WX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike and Alicia Fanning" <[hidden email]> > Anyone have any experience trying QRP from the bottom of the big hole? I > will be backpacking the week of September 6-12 in the Grand Canyon, and > would like to take my KX-1, but I don't want the weight if I will just be > talking to myself. Anyone have any experience from the bottom of the > Canyon > (specifically at the sunspot pits or at Bright Angel campground)? > > Thanks, > Mike, K4GU _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: RE: QRP from the bottom of the Grand Canyon
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In reply to this post by Mike and Alicia Fanning
Canyons play havoc with verticals.
The Grand Canyon is a mile or more deep. Depending on where you are, if you are truly in the inner gorge, you will need horizontal polarization and NVIS mode on 40m and lower. Of course, if you were to camp part way down on the plateau, you might be able to get out from there with a vertical on 20m for example, propagation willing. 20 has not been in good shape lately. I would go prepared for NVIS, which is easier to put up in a canyon bereft of real trees, anyway. We have tested both 80m and 40m NVIS with dipoles only 6 feet off ground. You will need a stub to match the low impedance, such as two 50 ohm coaxes in parallel, quarter wave approximately. You are looking at about 15 ohms center impedance at six foot height. A reflector wire was just off the ground under the dipole in each case. Dipole was cut by 468 formula, however, leave long for adjustment to part of band you want. The reflector wire is made 5 per cent longer. Are you entering from the South Rim trails? Most of my comments are assuming an approach from South Rim, with which I am familiar as to geography. -Stuart K5KVH _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Mike and Alicia Fanning
I wonder if there are any hams in the People of the Blue-Green Water who
live in the western area of Grand Canyon. If so, they might have some experience in propagation from the remote bottoms of the Canyon. I was there as a visitor many years ago and saw no antennas but things sure change even in such a remote spot as Havasupai. 73 Al W4ABW _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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