QSK Redux
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I asked a question about the audio "pop" that occurs in cw when T-R is set to 0 (QSK), I discovered a 1993 thread that discussed lowering a resistance value.
Two questions for those who have done it. First how effective was it? Meaning at what speed could you still hear between character elements ( dots and dashes - the subatomic particles of cw). And did it have a deleterious effect on your transmit key form? Also after you did the mod did it eliminate the pop, or just reduce it. The reason I ask is today I was chasing an A71 and the EU wall was up in full force. At a T-R setting of .01 I couldn't tell when he started to transmit. I'd say I was running about 30wpm. I ended up transfering the flag to the 756Pro where I was able to achieve full break in. And no, with the EU wall up I knew I had a snowballs chance of working him. Fun trying just the same. Joe N9JR _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Joseph Reed wrote:
> I asked a question about the audio "pop" that occurs in cw when T-R > is set to 0 (QSK), I discovered a 1993 thread that discussed > lowering a resistance value. > > Two questions for those who have done it. First how effective was > it? Meaning at what speed could you still hear between character > elements The best I could do with this and related mods was about 25 wpm. > And did > it have a deleterious effect on your transmit key form? No. > Also after > you did the mod did it eliminate the pop, or just reduce it. Various K2's seem to have different degrees of pops or clicks. I suggest that you look at <http://www.qslnet.de/member/la3za/K2/mod.html> and look for related entries. I found that adding the DSP and the KPA100 complicates getting clean QSK. I don't want to go into detail, because my own observations have been inconsistent and I've made and unmade so many changes that I'm confused about what works and what doesn't! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Ouch,
25 wpm is cw with training wheels. In the real world people don't send that slow. Bummer. I'll check out the site you referenced. I don't have a KDSP2, being a code kind of guy I am good to go with the KAF2. I love the receive qualities of my K2, and really, really wanted to make it my main HF rig. But if it isn't capable of QSK it can't take over Op Pos #1 for serious DXing. But I love the radio and it will get lots of non-DX use. QSK is the holy grail of cw ops. I am kicking myself as the best QSK I ever owned was a freak of nature. In the 1980's I had a Yaesu FT-757 GX II that held QSK beyond 40 wpm. Just the fluke of the components. But was it sweet to key! Joe N9JR ----- Original Message ---- From: Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]> To: Joseph Reed <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email] Sent: Monday, May 8, 2006 4:42:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QSK Redux Joseph Reed wrote: > I asked a question about the audio "pop" that occurs in cw when T-R > is set to 0 (QSK), I discovered a 1993 thread that discussed > lowering a resistance value. > > Two questions for those who have done it. First how effective was > it? Meaning at what speed could you still hear between character > elements The best I could do with this and related mods was about 25 wpm. > And did > it have a deleterious effect on your transmit key form? No. > Also after > you did the mod did it eliminate the pop, or just reduce it. Various K2's seem to have different degrees of pops or clicks. I suggest that you look at <http://www.qslnet.de/member/la3za/K2/mod.html> and look for related entries. I found that adding the DSP and the KPA100 complicates getting clean QSK. I don't want to go into detail, because my own observations have been inconsistent and I've made and unmade so many changes that I'm confused about what works and what doesn't! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Joseph Reed wrote:
>Ouch, > >25 wpm is cw with training wheels. In the real world people don't send that slow. Bummer. > > > Boy, "ouch" indeed! Maybe some day I'll get off the trike and manage a two-wheeler! 73 de Larry W2LJ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I might just stay on the porch and chat. I'm trying to get comfortable at
10-15. Clark B. Wierda N8CBW On Mon, 8 May 2006, Larry Makoski W2LJ wrote: > Joseph Reed wrote: > >> Ouch, >> >> 25 wpm is cw with training wheels. In the real world people don't send >> that slow. Bummer. >> >> > > Boy, "ouch" indeed! > > Maybe some day I'll get off the trike and manage a two-wheeler! > > 73 de Larry W2LJ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I'm with you Clark, and you've got plenty of friends too.
Stan Rife W5EWA Houston, TX K2 S/N 4216 -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Clark Wierda Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:50 PM To: Larry Makoski W2LJ Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QSK Redux I might just stay on the porch and chat. I'm trying to get comfortable at 10-15. Clark B. Wierda N8CBW On Mon, 8 May 2006, Larry Makoski W2LJ wrote: > Joseph Reed wrote: > >> Ouch, >> >> 25 wpm is cw with training wheels. In the real world people don't send >> that slow. Bummer. >> >> > > Boy, "ouch" indeed! > > Maybe some day I'll get off the trike and manage a two-wheeler! > > 73 de Larry W2LJ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Joseph Reed-2
Joe N9JR wrote:
25 wpm is cw with training wheels. In the real world people don't send that slow. Bummer. --------------------------- Joe, I think you might be exaggerating! In 50+ years of pounding brass on the Ham bands from 160 meters through UHF, the only time I've worked at 30 wpm or more with any regularity is when working a small handful QRQ buddies. That totals much less than 0.1% of my QSO's. 99% of the thousands and thousands of QSO's over the years are at 15 to 25 WPM. The remainder are real QRS working new Hams or OT's getting back on CW at 10 wpm or less. Good luck with the super QSK. Using more typical QSK settings, I don't have any trouble hearing DX between letters if not between dits and dahs. All I have to hear is that there's a signal on the DX station's frequency to make me pause long enough to tell if it's the DX station. After all, I'm not transmitting on his frequency so it doesn't cause any QRM if it takes me a half second to react. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
In 50+ years of pounding brass on the Ham bands from 160 meters through UHF, the only time I've worked at 30 wpm or more with any regularity is when working a small handful QRQ buddies. That totals much less than 0.1% of my QSO's. 99% of the thousands and thousands of QSO's over the years are at 15 to 25 WPM. The remainder are real QRS working new Hams or OT's getting back on CW at 10 wpm or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Similar experience here Ron. I would also like to suggest that when storm static QRN is wiping out parts of a transmission, slower speed can often result in better overall copy - assuming that humans are at each end. 73, Geoff GM4ESD _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:
> Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > > In 50+ years of pounding brass on the Ham bands from 160 meters through > UHF, > the only time I've worked at 30 wpm or more with any regularity is when > working a small handful QRQ buddies. That totals much less than 0.1% of my > QSO's. 99% of the thousands and thousands of QSO's over the years are at 15 > to 25 WPM. The remainder are real QRS working new Hams or OT's getting back > on CW at 10 wpm or less. I have a lot of QSOs around 28 WPM. Not as many over 30, and once in a while a 40+ wpm QSO. There are a few guys out there working at 50-65 wpm and even faster, but I can't send that fast with a paddle and refuse to use a keyboard! But the original question was based on using QSK in DX pileups where the DX station might be sending at 35-40. In this case fast QSK is extremely useful in keeping in sync with the pileup. You will not get the DX station if you call while he's sending, and slow QSK will cause you to lose sync. I love my K2, but like any object of love, it isn't flawless! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Joseph Reed-2
As the noise grew worse on 40 meters this Sunday I called more slowly. Working in that manner allows for fewer repetitions. Higher speeds are fun but only when the other op can copy you. Any hint of problems means I should slow down. Hopefully the other op will do the same.
Kevin. KD5ONS (An Elecraft CW Net NCS) -----Original Message----- >From: Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy <[hidden email]> >Sent: May 9, 2006 4:25 AM >To: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> >Cc: Elecraft Discussion List <[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QSK Redux > >Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > >In 50+ years of pounding brass on the Ham bands from 160 meters through UHF, >the only time I've worked at 30 wpm or more with any regularity is when >working a small handful QRQ buddies. That totals much less than 0.1% of my >QSO's. 99% of the thousands and thousands of QSO's over the years are at 15 >to 25 WPM. The remainder are real QRS working new Hams or OT's getting back >on CW at 10 wpm or less. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Similar experience here Ron. I would also like to suggest that when storm >static QRN is wiping out parts of a transmission, slower speed can often >result in better overall copy - assuming that humans are at each end. > >73, >Geoff >GM4ESD > > > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Kevin,
With all due respect that is a non sequitor. There is a distinct difference between net operation and the rough and tumble world of DXing. The former is based on cooperation, and the latter is all about competition. The origional post was about achieving optimal QSK performance, but has since devolved into a semi No Code / Know Code thread. I sugget we all let it die. Joe N9JR ----- Original Message ---- From: Kevin Rock <[hidden email]> To: Elecraft Discussion List <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2006 11:38:34 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QSK Redux As the noise grew worse on 40 meters this Sunday I called more slowly. Working in that manner allows for fewer repetitions. Higher speeds are fun but only when the other op can copy you. Any hint of problems means I should slow down. Hopefully the other op will do the same. Kevin. KD5ONS (An Elecraft CW Net NCS) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: QSK Redux [END of Thread]
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Administrator
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Guys - Lets kill this thread for now before it takes on a life of its
own. :-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List Moderator ----------- Joseph Reed wrote: > Kevin, > > With all due respect that is a non sequitor. There is a distinct difference between net operation and the rough and tumble world of DXing. The former is based on cooperation, and the latter is all about competition. > > The origional post was about achieving optimal QSK performance, but has since devolved into a semi No Code / Know Code thread. > > I sugget we all let it die. > > Joe N9JR > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kevin Rock <[hidden email]> > To: Elecraft Discussion List <[hidden email]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2006 11:38:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QSK Redux > > > As the noise grew worse on 40 meters this Sunday I called more slowly. Working in that manner allows for fewer repetitions. Higher speeds are fun but only when the other op can copy you. Any hint of problems means I should slow down. Hopefully the other op will do the same. > Kevin. KD5ONS (An Elecraft CW Net NCS) > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Joseph Reed-2
Joe, you are the one who wrote:
"25 wpm is cw with training wheels. In the real world people don't send that slow. Bummer." A number of operators, myself included, have respectfully taken issue with such an outlandish statement. Now you say that such comments are of a "No Code / Know Code" vein. That's equally absurd. I assure you that those ops who have never sent as fast as 20 or 25 WPM know the code, and a great many of them know it extremely well. Ham radio, even the subset that involves only CW operations, has a very broad spectrum of appeal for a great many reasons. The "rough and tumble" sort of DX competition you are referring to is but one of those uses of CW. It certainly does not represent all that CW, or Ham radio is all about nor, I suspect, does it represent anything close to a majority of what Amateur CW operations are all about. You are welcome to enjoy the hobby as you please, as long as your operations are in accordance with the regulations we all live with. Your pursuit of even faster QSK operation is right in line with much of what goes on here. Many of the interesting message threads here began with someone's dissatisfaction of some aspect of the K2 that lead to experimentation. Elecraft encourages such experimentation. A number of significant improvements that began that way have become a part of the basic K2 design over time. Good luck with your pursuit. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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