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Question on K3S and Winlink Express

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Question on K3S and Winlink Express

I can successfully connect using Winlink, and both Winmor and VARA
protocols. However, ARDOP has me stumped. I can't figure out how to setup
ARDOP without VOX. Anyone have a recipe for ARDOP configuration? Thanks,
Bob - W3DK

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MaverickNH

Re: Question on K3S and Winlink Express

Any luck with that Bob? I've been using Winlink on Packet VHF from a Kenwood
TM-D710G but wanted to try 80m with my K3S. I'm to the point where Ardop is
trying to connect to a local gateway about 5mi away from a 43ft vertical
with remote ATU at base at 50W. No connection yet...

I'm able to RX/TX on WSJT-X so figure my configuration should work, but
perhaps I need to tweak it for Ardop?

BRET/N4SRN

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Lyn WØLEN

Re: Question on K3S and Winlink Express

Brett -

I'm not Bob ... but I might be able to help with your Winlink issues.

I am quite active on the various P2P modes in Winlink express and have
formed a nationwide group to become proficient in handling P2P message
traffic in the case of a "grid down" emergency (no internet, no cells, no
repeaters, no power).

You may be too close to the gateway station, especially with a vertical
antenna (NVIS might even be marginal at 5 miles).

If you'd like some other stations to try, at a greater distant and in P2P
mode, let me know.

73
Lyn, W0LEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of MaverickNH
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2020 8:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question on K3S and Winlink Express

Any luck with that Bob? I've been using Winlink on Packet VHF from a Kenwood
TM-D710G but wanted to try 80m with my K3S. I'm to the point where Ardop is
trying to connect to a local gateway about 5mi away from a 43ft vertical
with remote ATU at base at 50W. No connection yet...

I'm able to RX/TX on WSJT-X so figure my configuration should work, but
perhaps I need to tweak it for Ardop?

BRET/N4SRN

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
______________________________________________________________

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JHRichards

Re: Question on K3S and Winlink Express

a nationwide group to become proficient in handling P2P message
traffic in the case of a "grid down" emergency (no internet, no cells, no
repeaters, no power).

-------------------------------------------------------

While that is a lovely gesture, it is neither realistic nor practicable.
Your traffic handler and I have radios, but my in laws and relations do not.
Moreover, when it gets THAT bad, I will NOT be on my radio. Instead, I
will grab a gun and hunker down to protect my homestead and loved ones from
looters. And, I expect your traffic handlers to do the same. If they are
situated within the disaster area, they will be busy enough looking after
their own, and if they are located outside the area, they are not likely to
drive hundreds of miles in to hand-deliver messages of good tidings to my
wife's disconnected family 200 miles away. Besides, FEMA and most other
official agencies are not going to be embarrassed by another communications
conundrum "when all else fails." Even the ARRL has backed away from that
draconian position. At a recent Dayton Hamvention, FEMA made it abundantly
clear the notion of ham operators riding high and saving the day are long
gone. It clearly indicated ops must be FEMA trained and certified, and it
will supply the radios. It gave an example where the only way local ham
operators were involved in an actual emergency was to identify the highest
hill in the area to put a temporary repeater. Thank you, good night, we
will take it from here. Just MY take. K8JHR

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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MaverickNH

Re: Question on K3S and Winlink Express

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Thanks Lyn - just joined up on Slack and will check in soon. Day job getting in the way of my hobbies again!

Best regards,

Bret

aka Charles Jessee N4SRN

------ Original Message ------

Brett -

I'm not Bob ... but I might be able to help with your Winlink issues.

I am quite active on the various P2P modes in Winlink express and have
formed a nationwide group to become proficient in handling P2P message
traffic in the case of a "grid down" emergency (no internet, no cells, no
repeaters, no power).

You may be too close to the gateway station, especially with a vertical
antenna (NVIS might even be marginal at 5 miles).

If you'd like some other stations to try, at a greater distant and in P2P
mode, let me know.

73
Lyn, W0LEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of MaverickNH
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2020 8:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question on K3S and Winlink Express

Any luck with that Bob? I've been using Winlink on Packet VHF from a Kenwood
TM-D710G but wanted to try 80m with my K3S. I'm to the point where Ardop is
trying to connect to a local gateway about 5mi away from a 43ft vertical
with remote ATU at base at 50W. No connection yet...

I'm able to RX/TX on WSJT-X so figure my configuration should work, but
perhaps I need to tweak it for Ardop?

BRET/N4SRN

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
______________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________
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Lyn WØLEN

Re: Question on K3S and Winlink Express

In reply to this post by JHRichards

I don't argue with the responders position, but have found that the
participation of hams in emergency communications is not only welcomed, it
is encouraged by groups like FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army and others on
local, regional and national levels. Many of us have completed the required
FEMA training and participate in exercises regularly through our local
organizations (ARES, etc.).

The voluntary participation by Hams in the case of natural disasters, for
example, is well documented. Many of us have taken it seriously enough to
actually get the required training offered to us by FEMA, ARRL, etc. Groups
such as SATERN and the Red Cross hold periodic Simulated Emergency Tests
with the active participation of ham radio groups.

Right now, hams in the South Carolina area are actively participating in
emergency communications related to Hurricane Isaias. Are they "riding high
and saving the day" ? Probably not, but they are contributing their skills
and facilities in an effort to serve the public need.

73
Lyn, W0LEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of JHRichards
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 4:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question on K3S and Winlink Express

a nationwide group to become proficient in handling P2P message
traffic in the case of a "grid down" emergency (no internet, no cells, no
repeaters, no power).

-------------------------------------------------------

While that is a lovely gesture, it is neither realistic nor practicable.
Your traffic handler and I have radios, but my in laws and relations do not.

Moreover, when it gets THAT bad, I will NOT be on my radio. Instead, I
will grab a gun and hunker down to protect my homestead and loved ones from
looters. And, I expect your traffic handlers to do the same. If they are
situated within the disaster area, they will be busy enough looking after
their own, and if they are located outside the area, they are not likely to
drive hundreds of miles in to hand-deliver messages of good tidings to my
wife's disconnected family 200 miles away. Besides, FEMA and most other
official agencies are not going to be embarrassed by another communications
conundrum "when all else fails." Even the ARRL has backed away from that
draconian position. At a recent Dayton Hamvention, FEMA made it abundantly
clear the notion of ham operators riding high and saving the day are long
gone. It clearly indicated ops must be FEMA trained and certified, and it
will supply the radios. It gave an example where the only way local ham
operators were involved in an actual emergency was to identify the highest
hill in the area to put a temporary repeater. Thank you, good night, we
will take it from here. Just MY take. K8JHR

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
______________________________________________________________
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k6dgw

Re: Question on K3S and Winlink Express

"I don't argue with the responders position, but have found that the
participation of hams in emergency communications is not only welcomed,
it is encouraged by groups like FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army and
others on local, regional and national levels."

Well ... For about 8 years, I coordinated the amateur communications for
the Western States Endurance Run [100 miles, Squaw Valley CA to Auburn
CA via the historic Western States Trail] and the Tevis Cup endurance
ride on roughly the same course. Both events draw entrants from around
the world. Required about 100-120 hams and maybe an equal number of
non-licensed family/friends with FRS radios around each of the aid
stations. Primary mission was safety and evacuation, often coordinating
directly with medical airlift aircraft, secondary mission was logistics.

These are large, grueling events with multiple hundreds of staff at 20+
aid stations. Runners and horses will face ~18,000 ft of elevation
gain, ~22,000 feet of descent, often run on snow and ice near the
summit, in 110 degree heat in the lower canyons, and a 24 hour
deadline. Really not unlike a major disaster.

One thing we proved conclusively, without exception, is that possession
of an amateur radio license does not automatically make one a competent
radio operator when the mission is anything but a rag chew. We had to
establish training sessions on standardized phraseology, message
handling, details of the event, procedures, how the chain of command
worked, and the like. Prior to the events, we coupled up trail marking
and clearing operations into exercises. It is way more work and there
are way more details to being truly effective that most believed, and
many who started the training did not finish. We always paired a new
"training graduate" with a seasoned operator having found that even with
the training program, a rookie operator alone at a station sometimes was
less effective and created more problems than no operator at all.

Amateur missions such as these are inherently local. It is virtually
impossible to show up somewhere with a radio and be effective unless the
amateurs know the served agency and its mission well, are well known to
the served agency, have a practiced plan and procedures, and are
effective and professional communicators. [See first sentence in 4th
paragraph above].

If it seems I'm sort of camping with James, K8JHR, it's because, even
though I don't own a gun right now, I am.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/4/2020 4:56 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

> I don't argue with the responders position, but have found that the
> participation of hams in emergency communications is not only welcomed, it
> is encouraged by groups like FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army and others on
> local, regional and national levels. Many of us have completed the required
> FEMA training and participate in exercises regularly through our local
> organizations (ARES, etc.).
>
> The voluntary participation by Hams in the case of natural disasters, for
> example, is well documented. Many of us have taken it seriously enough to
> actually get the required training offered to us by FEMA, ARRL, etc. Groups
> such as SATERN and the Red Cross hold periodic Simulated Emergency Tests
> with the active participation of ham radio groups.
>
> Right now, hams in the South Carolina area are actively participating in
> emergency communications related to Hurricane Isaias. Are they "riding high
> and saving the day" ? Probably not, but they are contributing their skills
> and facilities in an effort to serve the public need.
>
> 73
> Lyn, W0LEN
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of JHRichards
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 4:18 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question on K3S and Winlink Express
>
> a nationwide group to become proficient in handling P2P message
> traffic in the case of a "grid down" emergency (no internet, no cells, no
> repeaters, no power).
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> While that is a lovely gesture, it is neither realistic nor practicable.
> Your traffic handler and I have radios, but my in laws and relations do not.
>
> Moreover, when it gets THAT bad, I will NOT be on my radio. Instead, I
> will grab a gun and hunker down to protect my homestead and loved ones from
> looters. And, I expect your traffic handlers to do the same. If they are
> situated within the disaster area, they will be busy enough looking after
> their own, and if they are located outside the area, they are not likely to
> drive hundreds of miles in to hand-deliver messages of good tidings to my
> wife's disconnected family 200 miles away. Besides, FEMA and most other
> official agencies are not going to be embarrassed by another communications
> conundrum "when all else fails." Even the ARRL has backed away from that
> draconian position. At a recent Dayton Hamvention, FEMA made it abundantly
> clear the notion of ham operators riding high and saving the day are long
> gone. It clearly indicated ops must be FEMA trained and certified, and it
> will supply the radios. It gave an example where the only way local ham
> operators were involved in an actual emergency was to identify the highest
> hill in the area to put a temporary repeater. Thank you, good night, we
> will take it from here. Just MY take. K8JHR
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Lyn WØLEN

Re: Question on K3S and Winlink Express

Fred -

As I mentioned, without going into great detail, training IS required.

FEMA courses 100, 200, 700 and 800 are the normal minimum, with others added.
ARRL EC-001 is also basic.
SATERN (Salvation Army) courses vary by region, but include Safe From Harm, and Advanced Group Crisis Intervention.

In addition, message handling (written) is routinely taught. Familiarity with ICS as well as Red Cross, SATERN and various ARRL and State forms is also needed and practiced.

Again, I agree with what you're saying. The P2P group offers opportunities for newbies to find an Elmer to help guide them thru the process. While any event involvement will likely be local, there are times that P2P "local" contacts may be facilitated by a station located elsewhere, so the capability to relay messages is also important.

73
Lyn, W0LEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 2:05 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question on K3S and Winlink Express

"I don't argue with the responders position, but have found that the
participation of hams in emergency communications is not only welcomed,
it is encouraged by groups like FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army and
others on local, regional and national levels."

Well ... For about 8 years, I coordinated the amateur communications for
the Western States Endurance Run [100 miles, Squaw Valley CA to Auburn
CA via the historic Western States Trail] and the Tevis Cup endurance
ride on roughly the same course. Both events draw entrants from around
the world. Required about 100-120 hams and maybe an equal number of
non-licensed family/friends with FRS radios around each of the aid
stations. Primary mission was safety and evacuation, often coordinating
directly with medical airlift aircraft, secondary mission was logistics.

These are large, grueling events with multiple hundreds of staff at 20+
aid stations. Runners and horses will face ~18,000 ft of elevation
gain, ~22,000 feet of descent, often run on snow and ice near the
summit, in 110 degree heat in the lower canyons, and a 24 hour
deadline. Really not unlike a major disaster.

One thing we proved conclusively, without exception, is that possession
of an amateur radio license does not automatically make one a competent
radio operator when the mission is anything but a rag chew. We had to
establish training sessions on standardized phraseology, message
handling, details of the event, procedures, how the chain of command
worked, and the like. Prior to the events, we coupled up trail marking
and clearing operations into exercises. It is way more work and there
are way more details to being truly effective that most believed, and
many who started the training did not finish. We always paired a new
"training graduate" with a seasoned operator having found that even with
the training program, a rookie operator alone at a station sometimes was
less effective and created more problems than no operator at all.

Amateur missions such as these are inherently local. It is virtually
impossible to show up somewhere with a radio and be effective unless the
amateurs know the served agency and its mission well, are well known to
the served agency, have a practiced plan and procedures, and are
effective and professional communicators. [See first sentence in 4th
paragraph above].

If it seems I'm sort of camping with James, K8JHR, it's because, even
though I don't own a gun right now, I am.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/4/2020 4:56 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

______________________________________________________________
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