RE: K3 & CQWW
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I agree that there were quite a few stations running ultra high speed CW. They should slow down a bit or at least answer a station replying at a slower speed. I'm not sure just what the definition of really slow speed is these days, but some operators, myself included, love to use a straight key. The K3 has a jack just for my straight keys in addition to having one for paddles. Are we QRMing these contest stations by using a straight key? If so, too bad. They can choose not to answer, but we certainly have the right to reply.....at any speed. There are many times when contest stations QRM those who are just on to operate and are not participating in the event. An example of that would be SSB on 160 spreading out all the way down to the low end. Speaking of those ultra high speed CW stations, I have to wonder if they are in a radio contest or a computer contest? Isn't the computer doing most of the operating. I don't know, since having the PC run the show, as far as contest exchanges are concerned, is of absolutely no interest to me. Does the computer copy and select the calling station? ( I have no idea?? ) If it does, then it really is a computer contest and not a ham radio contest. C'ya in the ARRL 160 73, Dave N8AG _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In a CW contest the computer does less than in a RTTY or PSK contest. There is no CW decoding software yet written that decodes reliably enough in the presence of contest QRM to be used without aural conformation, or that can decode weak signals close to the noise at all. Computers are an operating aid, but that's all. I have been thinking of adding a facility to my software that records the exchange and allows it to be played back, at half speed if required. Do other programs do that?
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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Dave,
The premise that nobody can copy high speed CW is simply false. The RUFZ contest simulator shows that hundreds of contest stations are able to pull out call signs at over 50 wpm. The top guy does this at 160 WPM. See: http://www.sk3bg.se/contest/rufztop.htm In many contests the exchange is known most of the time before hand. Thus huge number of QSO's can be accurately completed at such speeds. Like the market place, you charge (set speed) at what traffic will bear. Early on in a contest fast + loud is the right thing to do for score. High speed reduces pileup size for rare ones and actually helps QSO rate. 73 de Brian/K3KO Julian, G4ILO wrote: > >Dave Agsten wrote: > > >>Speaking of those ultra high speed CW stations, I have to wonder if they >>are in a radio contest or a computer contest? Isn't the computer doing >>most of the operating. I don't know, since having the PC run the show, as >>far as contest exchanges are concerned, is of absolutely no interest to >>me. Does the computer copy and select the calling station? ( I have no >>idea?? ) If it does, then it really is a computer contest and not a ham >>radio contest. >> >> >> >> >In a CW contest the computer does less than in a RTTY or PSK contest. There >is no CW decoding software yet written that decodes reliably enough in the >presence of contest QRM to be used without aural conformation, or that can >decode weak signals close to the noise at all. Computers are an operating >aid, but that's all. > >I have been thinking of adding a facility to my software that records the >exchange and allows it to be played back, at half speed if required. Do >other programs do that? > >----- >Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. >http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham >Directory http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Dave Agsten
Most of the top gun contest ops are copying manually and using the
computer to send, then log the contacts. A contest exchange is more like copying code groups rather than clear text. If you have a good idea what's coming in the exchange you really only have to copy the call. CQWW exchange is much easier to anticipate compared to something like Sweeps. As Julian said they haven't written a piece of software yet that can decode morse code as well as the trained human brain. They do work pretty well in non-contest situations on properly timed and spaced CW. I think they'd be terrible in a QRM filled contest situation. My one and only gripe about computer generated morse in a contest is the guys who're more than likely running SO2R leaving a rig in a CQ loop and not paying enough attention to people answering. I know in the CW version of Sweep Stakes I moved on down the band when I came across a station in a "CQ Loop" with no possible way to squeeze a reply in between CQ's. They're loss. To the big guns sending at 40+, there are way more of us than there are of you. Wouldn't it makes sense to slow the CQ and exchange down to a reasonable 22-27 wpm and work a bunch more people? My 27 wpm Q counts just as much as the other guys 40 wpm Q and there's more of me than there are of him. I can't count the number of stations running in SS who answered my 27wpm call to them with 40+, despite testimony to the contrary on this reflector. Dave Agsten wrote: > Speaking of those ultra high speed CW stations, I have to wonder if they are in a radio contest or a computer contest? Isn't the computer doing most of the operating. I don't know, since having the PC run the show, as far as contest exchanges are concerned, is of absolutely no interest to me. Does the computer copy and select the calling station? ( I have no idea?? ) If it does, then it really is a computer contest and not a ham radio contest. > > C'ya in the ARRL 160 > > 73, > Dave N8AG _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by alsopb
Back in the 90's my CW skills were better. There was an on the air
test for copy and I was able to get the cert for 40 WPM. I could copy a tad faster but comprehension went way down quickly at 45 WPM. Life got in the way since then and sans antennas, I've spent much less time on the air till recently and today the top end of my accurate copy is closer to 30 WPM. With that, there were few stations I could not copy that were clearly heard sans QRM, QRN & so on. There were however a few stations I was irritated at because I knew they were multipliers from their prefix but there was no way I wanted to spend time prying out the specifics of their call because it was just too fast. So I left them behing & kept on tuning. If I think such calls are too fast, someone who sweats at 20 WPM isn't going to hear a thing that makes sense. So to me, sending CQ at 10 WPM is going to hurt your overall Qs and sending at 45 WPM is going to hurt your overall Qs. Seems like one person needs to practice & the other one needs to learn. Perhaps if a contester were to send say every 5 calls at 20 WPM and the rest at Autobahn rates to move callers along, that would be a worthy alternative; needs some experimenting to see how that would fly. Gary KA1J > Dave, > > The premise that nobody can copy high speed CW is simply false. > > The RUFZ contest simulator shows that hundreds of contest stations are > able to pull out call signs at over 50 wpm. The top guy does this at > 160 WPM. See: http://www.sk3bg.se/contest/rufztop.htm > > In many contests the exchange is known most of the time before hand. > Thus huge number of QSO's can be accurately completed at such speeds. > > Like the market place, you charge (set speed) at what traffic will bear. > > Early on in a contest fast + loud is the right thing to do for score. > High speed reduces pileup size for rare ones and actually helps QSO rate. > > 73 de Brian/K3KO > > Julian, G4ILO wrote: > > > > >Dave Agsten wrote: > > > > > >>Speaking of those ultra high speed CW stations, I have to wonder if they > >>are in a radio contest or a computer contest? Isn't the computer doing > >>most of the operating. I don't know, since having the PC run the show, as > >>far as contest exchanges are concerned, is of absolutely no interest to > >>me. Does the computer copy and select the calling station? ( I have no > >>idea?? ) If it does, then it really is a computer contest and not a ham > >>radio contest. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >In a CW contest the computer does less than in a RTTY or PSK contest. There > >is no CW decoding software yet written that decodes reliably enough in the > >presence of contest QRM to be used without aural conformation, or that can > >decode weak signals close to the noise at all. Computers are an operating > >aid, but that's all. > > > >I have been thinking of adding a facility to my software that records the > >exchange and allows it to be played back, at half speed if required. Do > >other programs do that? > > > >----- > >Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. > >http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham > >Directory http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 & CQWW [End of CW Speed Thread]
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Administrator
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Lots of good info in this thread regarding CW speed, but its time to put
it to rest for now. We're beating it to death. (But let's keep those other K3 CQWW reports coming! :-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List Moderator Gary Smith wrote: > Back in the 90's my CW skills were better. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 & CQWW [End of CW Speed Thread]
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Administrator
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Re-send of yesterday's AM email ending this thread..
Please, lets end the CW speed thread now. 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List Moderator (really!) ------ Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: > Lots of good info in this thread regarding CW speed, but its time to > put it to rest for now. We're beating it to death. > > (But let's keep those other K3 CQWW reports coming! :-) > > 73, Eric WA6HHQ > Elecraft List Moderator _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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