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RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

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jsdroyster

RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

Perhaps others like me are unaware of this proposed FCC rule that would allow
digital communication modes 2.8 kHz in width to be used robotically in the CW and data
sub-bands without regard to interference. ARRL supports this and evidently initiated it.

http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/RM-11708%20Briefing%20Memo.pdf

However, information on websites savecw.com and saveRTTY.com indicates
it would cause grave interference with CW and narrow digital modes.

There is evidently a short window of opportunity to submit comments to the FCC
about this, and there are instructions on the noted websites for how to do this
online within just a few minutes.

If you google for RM-11708 you can read some well-reasoned comments submitted by other hams to the FCC electronic docket.

I can't evaluate the claims being made about ARRL's motivation but it seems
important not to allow such bad interference, so I submitted a comment.
Julie KT4JR

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Sam Carson

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

This is not the place for this. Eric take note please
Sam Carson
K4soc

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 9:13 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

Perhaps others like me are unaware of this proposed FCC rule that would
allow
digital communication modes 2.8 kHz in width to be used robotically in the
CW and data
sub-bands without regard to interference. ARRL supports this and evidently
initiated it.

http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/RM-11708%20Briefing%20Memo.pdf

However, information on websites savecw.com and saveRTTY.com indicates
it would cause grave interference with CW and narrow digital modes.

There is evidently a short window of opportunity to submit comments to the
FCC
about this, and there are instructions on the noted websites for how to do
this
online within just a few minutes.

If you google for RM-11708 you can read some well-reasoned comments
submitted by other hams to the FCC electronic docket.

I can't evaluate the claims being made about ARRL's motivation but it seems
important not to allow such bad interference, so I submitted a comment.
Julie KT4JR

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KM3K

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

In reply to this post by jsdroyster

Hello,

I bought a KX3 to induce me to learn the code and operate portable.

Randal Evans, who is not a ham, wants RM-11708 approved, so he can use the
ham-bands to download movies.
Imagine that happening where I want to operate CW and PSK31.

Here is Evans' message to the FCC sent in last week:
"7521315143.txt
To: FCC - RM-11708
The sailing forms are all engouraging us to file comments in support of
RM-11708.
This is my first filing and if I mess this up, please see SailNet Forum at:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/111746-us-c
itizensurged-support-fcc-rm-11708-a.html
I have experienced very dependable service from the amateur radio Internet
Winlink
system.
Its a great service because all of the other available Internet services
cost money. Even when I am topside crusing the system runs automatically
below deck
publishing my position reports and downloading my email.
I use the system for sending position reports, ordering supplies, repairs,
chatting with friends and posting to facebook.
My only complaint is that it needs to be much faster.
I am not a amateur radio operator yet but a friend lets me use his call with
a SIDD on
the end. I hope to get my own ham call soon.
From what I read on the sailing forums, RM-11708 will allow Winlink eMail to
run
twice as fast.
That is great and I am for that.
Some of the technical folks are saying that if RM-11708 is published with no
bandwidth we can get even faster Internet and might be able to stream movies
on the Winlink Internet.
I'm for passing RM-11708 into law with no bandwdith limits."

I sent to the FCC my notice that I don't want RM-11708.
I don't want the ham-bands used for email and movies when commercial
services can do that.

73 Jerry KM3K

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 9:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

Perhaps others like me are unaware of this proposed FCC rule that would
allow
digital communication modes 2.8 kHz in width to be used robotically in the
CW and data
sub-bands without regard to interference. ARRL supports this and evidently
initiated it.

http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/RM-11708%20Briefing%20Memo.pdf

However, information on websites savecw.com and saveRTTY.com indicates
it would cause grave interference with CW and narrow digital modes.

There is evidently a short window of opportunity to submit comments to the
FCC
about this, and there are instructions on the noted websites for how to do
this
online within just a few minutes.

If you google for RM-11708 you can read some well-reasoned comments
submitted by other hams to the FCC electronic docket.

I can't evaluate the claims being made about ARRL's motivation but it seems

important not to allow such bad interference, so I submitted a comment.
Julie KT4JR

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'DGB'

FS PR6 6m Preamp

I have replaced my PR6 with the PR6-10 and it is now surplus to my needs.

Adapters, DB-15/RCA Power cable, and Owners Manual included.

$95 shipped Conus

73 Dwight NS9I
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w5tvw

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

In reply to this post by jsdroyster

think my comments on RM-11708 went thru.

This is very serious to ANYONE who wants to retain "narrow band" digital
communications like JT9 and PSK31 and RTTY!! Also to CW Dxers and
contesters! If this passes, it will change amateur radio as we have
known it forever. There will be no "weak signal" operation possible
with the onset of digital noise in the analog receiver.

IF THIS IS REALLY A "NECESSARY" DIGITAL MODE, it belongs somewhere in a
segment of the phone band sub-band and NOT THE narrow band digital and
CW band.

I think this is REALLY a "back door" attempt to silence "Continuous
wave" telegraphy......really!

I hope the old timers and the "newbies" who are still hanging on to CW
will write comments against this "sneaky move" ARRL is backing to
satisfy mostly the "Yacht crowd" who want to access the internet via HF
radio! It will violate the "300 baud or less" rule of keeping wideband
digital OUT of the narrow band "digital" space!

Don't rely on the FCC to "nix" this RM as there isn't any "real"
engineers at the FCC anymore, just lawyers, "bean counters" and
political hacks
running things there now. Proof of this is higher authorities bypassing
FCC and making rules that stand now in the new 60 meter band.

Please add your voices to the protest against RM-11708!

73,

Sandy W5TVW

On 6/23/2014 8:13 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Perhaps others like me are unaware of this proposed FCC rule that would allow
> digital communication modes 2.8 kHz in width to be used robotically in the CW and data
> sub-bands without regard to interference. ARRL supports this and evidently initiated it.
>
> http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/RM-11708%20Briefing%20Memo.pdf
>
> However, information on websites savecw.com and saveRTTY.com indicates
> it would cause grave interference with CW and narrow digital modes.
>
> There is evidently a short window of opportunity to submit comments to the FCC
> about this, and there are instructions on the noted websites for how to do this
> online within just a few minutes.
>
> If you google for RM-11708 you can read some well-reasoned comments submitted by other hams to the FCC electronic docket.
>
> I can't evaluate the claims being made about ARRL's motivation but it seems
> important not to allow such bad interference, so I submitted a comment.
> Julie KT4JR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Tim Herrick

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

The worst part of the quote from the yachtsman that really ticks me off is where he says: " Its a great service because all of the
other available Internet services cost money." Really? We end up with this QRM so boaters don't have to pay for internet services?
In my comments to the FCC I stated that if there is an emergency and the faster communications is needed then the FCC has the
ability to declare an emergency and allow otherwise unauthorized modes. Just like they do when they set aside a certain frequency.
This is not an emergency nor is the guy checking his email a reason to change rules to suite them!

The proponents say this will not cause problems. What I see is the interference this will cause to these stations amongst themselves
in there narrow bandspace, they will then start moving out from each other taking up more and more bandspace! Moving other modes out
as they do so. This is a disaster waiting to happen.

BTW, this affects ALL amateurs so this crosses in to the on topic line. If this comes to fruition there will be a mass exodus of
regular hams and this will affect not only Elecraft but all ham radio manufacturers!

73,
Tim Herrick, KQ8M
[hidden email]

AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org
User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandy Blaize
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 10:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

think my comments on RM-11708 went thru.

This is very serious to ANYONE who wants to retain "narrow band" digital communications like JT9 and PSK31 and RTTY!! Also to CW
Dxers and contesters! If this passes, it will change amateur radio as we have known it forever. There will be no "weak signal"
operation possible with the onset of digital noise in the analog receiver.

IF THIS IS REALLY A "NECESSARY" DIGITAL MODE, it belongs somewhere in a segment of the phone band sub-band and NOT THE narrow band
digital and CW band.

I think this is REALLY a "back door" attempt to silence "Continuous wave" telegraphy......really!

I hope the old timers and the "newbies" who are still hanging on to CW will write comments against this "sneaky move" ARRL is
backing to satisfy mostly the "Yacht crowd" who want to access the internet via HF radio! It will violate the "300 baud or less"
rule of keeping wideband digital OUT of the narrow band "digital" space!

Don't rely on the FCC to "nix" this RM as there isn't any "real"
engineers at the FCC anymore, just lawyers, "bean counters" and political hacks running things there now. Proof of this is higher
authorities bypassing FCC and making rules that stand now in the new 60 meter band.

Please add your voices to the protest against RM-11708!

73,

Sandy W5TVW

On 6/23/2014 8:13 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Perhaps others like me are unaware of this proposed FCC rule that
> would allow digital communication modes 2.8 kHz in width to be used
> robotically in the CW and data sub-bands without regard to interference. ARRL supports this and evidently initiated it.
>
> http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/RM-11708%20Briefing%20Memo.pdf
>
> However, information on websites savecw.com and saveRTTY.com indicates
> it would cause grave interference with CW and narrow digital modes.
>
> There is evidently a short window of opportunity to submit comments to
> the FCC about this, and there are instructions on the noted websites
> for how to do this online within just a few minutes.
>
> If you google for RM-11708 you can read some well-reasoned comments submitted by other hams to the FCC electronic docket.
>
> I can't evaluate the claims being made about ARRL's motivation but it
> seems important not to allow such bad interference, so I submitted a comment.
> Julie KT4JR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

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David Pratt

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

In reply to this post by w5tvw

Thank you, Walter. I was about to suggest to Eric that he seriously
consider appointing a deputy moderator to keep the reflector in check
when he is not around.

It is good to see that you have volunteered for the job. Keep up the
good work. There is far too much off-topic stuff on here so causing
folks to move over to the Yahoo groups.

73 de David G4DMP

In a recent message, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> writes

>Five days ago (6/18), Eric declared this off topic and asked the
>discussion to end. This was his post.
>
>Folks - please take this thread off list immediately. In general,
>please do notdiscuss amateur policy issues here. That is a deep rabbit
>hole that can and will generate voluminous OT traffic.
>End of Thread.
>Eric
>List Moderator
>elecraft.com
>https://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft%40mailman.qth.net/msg170708.html
>
>wunder
>K6WRU

--
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
| David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. |
| Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Mike Harris-9

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

In reply to this post by Tim Herrick

Indeed it does, not just the USA. I hope the IARU is making appropriate
noise.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 23/06/2014 12:23, KQ8M wrote:
> BTW, this affects ALL amateurs so this crosses in to the on topic line.
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

In reply to this post by David Pratt

More to the point, if we don't keep the list clean, I'm sure it could be
a true moderated list with the flip of a switch.

If that happened, a moderator would have to approve all posts before
they go out to the list -- and that slows the tempo way down.

-- Lynn

On 6/23/2014 8:54 AM, David G4DMP wrote:
> Thank you, Walter. I was about to suggest to Eric that he seriously
> consider appointing a deputy moderator to keep the reflector in check
> when he is not around.

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'DGB'

Re: FS PR6 6m Preamp Sold

In reply to this post by 'DGB'

FS PR6 6m Preamp I have replaced my PR6 with the PR6-10 and it is now
surplus to my needs. Adapters, DB-15/RCA Power cable, and Owners Manual
included. $95 shipped Conus 73 Dwight NS9I
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Your argument is basically free speech vs. the wishes of the forum owner.

The list owner has observed that any post on amateur radio politics is
going to generate a lot of traffic and is inevitably controversial.

Since the purpose of the list is to discuss Elecraft products, and not
amateur radio in general, the list owner has basically said "not here."

Personally, I'm okay with this topic, but I don't own the list, and it's
outside the list charter.

Meaning those of us who want to keep up on rule changes need to get that
news in other ways.

73 -- Lynn

On 6/23/2014 9:42 AM, Joseph Robertson wrote:

> Lynn, Mike, David and Walter,
> Ok, I see your OT Point. But I have to ask a critical question. I
> promise I won't comment again on this OT Topic Topic.
>
> If the future of CW for us new hams with the KX3 is not ON Topic WHAT
> is on Topic. Respectively I'm asking how would I learn about this
> problem with our bandwidth being threatened if I did not get it here.
> This is the only list I subscribe to. I agree with all the posters
> above me this is critical to the future of CW and Especially the
> future of CW in relation to the KX3
> Thank you to all above me who passed on this information so I can
> contact the FCC and submit a comment.
> Respectfully,
> Joseph Robertson
> KG7DTF
>

Phil Hystad-3

Re: [XOT] freedom of speech...

Note: there is no freedom of speech on a forum such as the Elecraft e-mail reflector (and most other similar forums). Indeed, this forum could be placed in moderate mode by Elecraft and they can censor, reject, and even modify a posting, without any needed cause -- just per their whim! The subscribers are not protected by the first amendment in this situation. Actually, technically I think the freedom of speech only applies to grievances and protestations against the federal government but that is left to the constitutional lawyers to wrangle.

73, phil, K7PEH
On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Your argument is basically free speech vs. the wishes of the forum owner.
>
> The list owner has observed that any post on amateur radio politics is going to generate a lot of traffic and is inevitably controversial.
>
> Since the purpose of the list is to discuss Elecraft products, and not amateur radio in general, the list owner has basically said "not here."
>
> Personally, I'm okay with this topic, but I don't own the list, and it's outside the list charter.
>
> Meaning those of us who want to keep up on rule changes need to get that news in other ways.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 6/23/2014 9:42 AM, Joseph Robertson wrote:
>> Lynn, Mike, David and Walter,
>> Ok, I see your OT Point. But I have to ask a critical question. I promise I won't comment again on this OT Topic Topic.
>>
>> If the future of CW for us new hams with the KX3 is not ON Topic WHAT is on Topic. Respectively I'm asking how would I learn about this problem with our bandwidth being threatened if I did not get it here. This is the only list I subscribe to. I agree with all the posters above me this is critical to the future of CW and Especially the future of CW in relation to the KX3
>> Thank you to all above me who passed on this information so I can contact the FCC and submit a comment.
>> Respectfully,
>> Joseph Robertson
>> KG7DTF
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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kk4oyj

Re: [XOT] freedom of speech...

Unsubscribe.

P.S. Given the whining about narrow bandwidth, the contributors to this ridiculous thread might consider those that use narrow bandwidth to receive email and trim their posts accordingly.

Thanks and 73 - I'm off to Yahoo till this place is cleaned up.

73 de John, 9H5G
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Rick WA6NHC

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

The First Amendment stops the government (in the US) from interfering with free expression.

This list is not owned by the government; the amendment doesn't apply.

Let's move on please.

Rick, WA6NHC

iPad = small keypad = typos = sorry ;-)

> On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:03 AM, "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Your argument is basically free speech vs. the wishes of the forum owner.
>
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NK7Z

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

OMG This is forking into a constitutional discussion...
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Mon, 2014-06-23 at 11:24 -0700, Rick Bates, WA6NHC wrote:

> The First Amendment stops the government (in the US) from interfering with free expression.
>
> This list is not owned by the government; the amendment doesn't apply.
>
> Let's move on please.
>
> Rick, WA6NHC
>
> iPad = small keypad = typos = sorry ;-)
>
> > On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:03 AM, "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Your argument is basically free speech vs. the wishes of the forum owner.
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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mcduffie

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

> If this comes to fruition there will be a mass exodus of
> regular hams and this will affect not only Elecraft but all ham radio manufacturers

Which means it is off topic for this ELECRAFT related forum. Take it to some
wider forum and have at it.

Gary
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Gary Gregory-2

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

Good grief folks.

No more 2 cents worth please...even I get it!

End of thread...I hope..
Gary

On 24 June 2014 08:17, <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > If this comes to fruition there will be a mass exodus of
> > regular hams and this will affect not only Elecraft but all ham radio
> manufacturers
>
> Which means it is off topic for this ELECRAFT related forum. Take it to
> some
> wider forum and have at it.
>
> Gary
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

--

*Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz
<http://www.qsl.net/vk1zz>Motorhome Portable*
*"Grumpy's House"*

*Elecraft K3KPA500FTKAT500FT*
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Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

>>>> No more 2 cents worth please.. <<<<

Who said Ham Radio Operators are CHEAP?

;-)

((((73)))) Milverton / W9MMS.

On Monday, June 23, 2014 6:57 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>Good grief folks.
>
>No more 2 cents worth please...even I get it!
>
>End of thread...I hope..
>Gary
>
>
>On 24 June 2014 08:17, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> > If this comes to fruition there will be a mass exodus of
>> > regular hams and this will affect not only Elecraft but all ham radio
>> manufacturers
>>
>> Which means it is off topic for this ELECRAFT related forum. Take it to
>> some
>> wider forum and have at it.
>>
>> Gary
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
>
>--
>
>
>
>*Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz
><http://www.qsl.net/vk1zz>Motorhome Portable*
>*"Grumpy's House"*
>
>
>*Elecraft K3KPA500FTKAT500FT*
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: RM-11708 proposal to FCC threatens CW and digital modes

Administrator

Gentlemen,

This thread was formally closed by the moderator several days ago. Please do not post amateur radio policy critiques, comments etc here.

End of Thread.

73,
Eric
List Modulator
elecraft.com
_..._

On Jun 23, 2014, at 5:23 PM, "Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>>>> No more 2 cents worth please.. <<<<
>
> Who said Ham Radio Operators are CHEAP?
>
> ;-)
>
> ((((73)))) Milverton / W9MMS.
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 23, 2014 6:57 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> Good grief folks.
>>
>> No more 2 cents worth please...even I get it!
>>
>> End of thread...I hope..
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>> On 24 June 2014 08:17, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> If this comes to fruition there will be a mass exodus of
>>>> regular hams and this will affect not only Elecraft but all ham radio
>>> manufacturers
>>>
>>> Which means it is off topic for this ELECRAFT related forum. Take it to
>>> some
>>> wider forum and have at it.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz
>> <http://www.qsl.net/vk1zz>Motorhome Portable*
>> *"Grumpy's House"*
>>
>>
>> *Elecraft K3KPA500FTKAT500FT*
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [XOT] freedom of speech...

Administrator

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Gentlemen,

This thread is closed, as is the digital bw thread.

In general, we ask that amateur radio policy discussions, political comments etc be made elsewhere in the interest of keeping list noise level under control. There are a great many locations on the internet where one can get their fill of those topics ;-)

73,
Eric
List Moderator, from time to time..
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Note: there is no freedom of speech on a forum such as the Elecraft e-mail reflector (and most other similar forums). Indeed, this forum could be placed in moderate mode by Elecraft and they can censor, reject, and even modify a posting, without any needed cause -- just per their whim! The subscribers are not protected by the first amendment in this situation. Actually, technically I think the freedom of speech only applies to grievances and protestations against the federal government but that is left to the constitutional lawyers to wrangle.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>> On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Your argument is basically free speech vs. the wishes of the forum owner.
>>
>> The list owner has observed that any post on amateur radio politics is going to generate a lot of traffic and is inevitably controversial.
>>
>> Since the purpose of the list is to discuss Elecraft products, and not amateur radio in general, the list owner has basically said "not here."
>>
>> Personally, I'm okay with this topic, but I don't own the list, and it's outside the list charter.
>>
>> Meaning those of us who want to keep up on rule changes need to get that news in other ways.
>>
>> 73 -- Lynn
>>
>>> On 6/23/2014 9:42 AM, Joseph Robertson wrote:
>>> Lynn, Mike, David and Walter,
>>> Ok, I see your OT Point. But I have to ask a critical question. I promise I won't comment again on this OT Topic Topic.
>>>
>>> If the future of CW for us new hams with the KX3 is not ON Topic WHAT is on Topic. Respectively I'm asking how would I learn about this problem with our bandwidth being threatened if I did not get it here. This is the only list I subscribe to. I agree with all the posters above me this is critical to the future of CW and Especially the future of CW in relation to the KX3
>>> Thank you to all above me who passed on this information so I can contact the FCC and submit a comment.
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Joseph Robertson
>>> KG7DTF
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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