ROHS COMPLIANT?

[john cooper-11]

Sorry Ive been gone for a while, what exactly is ROHS and how does it affect me?  Is it just the type of solder and what the compenents themselves are made out of?  And do I have to go out and buy a special soldering iron now?

WT5Y out of the loop for the last year and a half

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[Bob Cunnings NW8L]

It's a big subject, at work I have this web site bookmarked:

http://www.rohsguide.com/

as a good place to start.

Bob NW8L

On 8/24/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry Ive been gone for a while, what exactly is ROHS and how does it affect me?  Is it just the type of solder and what the compenents themselves are made out of?  And do I have to go out and buy a special soldering iron now?
>
> WT5Y out of the loop for the last year and a half
>
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[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

To be honest, RoHS only directly impacts manufacturers who ship into
Europe. Primarily it changes the type of solder that the leads of
components are tinned with in our kits from lead based solders to
non-lead based varieties.

Either type of part can still be easily soldered with regular lead based
solder. It in no way impacts individual buyers. There is even a specific
exemption in the European RoHS regulations for Eu buyers who import
items for their own home construction. Using regular lead based solder
thus is not an issue for individual builders in Eu or the U.S.

We -strongly- recommend continuing to use regular lead based solder to
build our kits. Kester 44, and other 63/37, 60/40 lead/tin mix solders
are not going away in the US or in Eu and work much better for soldering
both RoHS and non-RoHS tinned parts. Removal of non-lead solder is
difficult at best for most builders, potentially damaging PC boards and
components, and thats why our warranty prohibits its usage. Lead free
solder is really designed for use in mass production lines.

We are converting to RoHS parts for several reasons:

1. Our assembled products, like the T1-A, absolutely must be RoHS
compliant for import into EC countries.
2. While it appears kits are exempted for individual import by the EC
regulations (we do not have an office in Europe) we don't want to take
the chance that a customs official in some country will interpret the
rules differently. :-)
3. Ultimately all parts are going this way, since suppliers do not want
to supply two types of each part. We're ahead of the game this way.
4. California has also announced that it plans to follow Europe in this
area sometime in 2007. (But they are vague on this at this time.)
5. We also can't afford to build two types of kits in the long run.

73, Eric

P.S. I frequently do not read the reflector on a daily basis, and I
receive a lot of unsolicited emails. As a result can not always reply
quickly to all posts or direct emails.
=====================
> On 8/24/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Sorry Ive been gone for a while, what exactly is ROHS and how does it
>> affect me?  Is it just the type of solder and what the compenents
>> themselves are made out of?  And do I have to go out and buy a
>> special soldering iron now?
>>
>> WT5Y out of the loop for the last year and a half
>
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[Nick Waterman]

(sorry for the delay, been on holiday)

After trying lead-based and lead-free solder on some of the mini-kits, I
went leaded for my K2 in the end. I knew it was going to be a whole lot
easier especially if I ever had to rework anything... but this comment
from Eric really stunned me:

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
> We -strongly- recommend continuing to use regular lead based solder to
> build our kits. Kester 44, and other 63/37, 60/40 lead/tin mix solders
> are not going away in the US or in Eu and work much better for soldering
> both RoHS and non-RoHS tinned parts. Removal of non-lead solder is
> difficult at best for most builders, potentially damaging PC boards and
> components, and thats why our warranty prohibits its usage.

It does? Which warranty, where? The only warranty I read mentions
nothing about unleaded solder:

"The use of acid-core solder, water-soluble flux solder, or any
corrosive or conductive flux or solvent will void this warranty in its
entirety."

and "In addition to the tools supplied, you will need these standard
tools: [...] IC-grade, small-diameter (.031") solder (DO NOT use
acid-core solder, water-soluble flux solder, additional flux, or
solvents of any kind, which will void your warranty)"

... so *IF* I had gone ahead and used AgSnCu solder with a non-acidic
non-water-soluble flux, would I REALLY have invalidated my warranty
without knowing it?

--
"Nosey" Nick Waterman, G7RZQ, K2 #5209.
use Std::Disclaimer;    [hidden email]
Please sponsor me! http://www.justgiving.com/noseynick
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
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[g3ymc]

On 4 Sep 2006 at 4:02, Nick Waterman wrote:

>
> After trying lead-based and lead-free solder on some of the mini-kits, I
> went leaded for my K2 in the end. I knew it was going to be a whole lot
> easier especially if I ever had to rework anything... but this comment
> from Eric really stunned me:
>
> Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
> > We -strongly- recommend continuing to use regular lead based solder to
> > build our kits. Kester 44, and other 63/37, 60/40 lead/tin mix solders
> > are not going away in the US or in Eu and work much better for soldering
> > both RoHS and non-RoHS tinned parts. Removal of non-lead solder is
> > difficult at best for most builders, potentially damaging PC boards and
> > components, and thats why our warranty prohibits its usage.

I was going to comment about this myself.

Elecraft have gone to great effort to supply their new kits with
components which are ROHS compliant andnow these new kits will come
with a revised warranty which prohibits use of lead free solder in
construction. Total contradiction.

The fact remains that in Europe the law now requires such equipment
to be assembled with lead free. There may be exemptions for kits, but
in my reading of the regulations this is not that clear. USA and
other assemblers who are currently not subject to ROHS regulations
obviously can use leaded solder, but in Europe we should be given the
option to use lead free if we wish to meet those requirements and
work within the law. If rework with lead free is a problem then
Elecraft must solve them rather than effectively wiping their hands
of it.

Perhaps Eric or Wayne will comment??

73 Dave G3YMC

http://www.davesergeant.com

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[N8LP]

If you know Wayne, you know he is a very environmentally responsible guy
(Eric may be as well... we haven't talked about it). I can't imagine he
would make that recommendation if it weren't absolutely necessary. With
kits as complex as some of the Elecrafts are, there will inevitably be
some rework to remove misplaced parts, not to mention the possibility of
blown finals down the road, etc. Plus, there's the rework required to
add options (you could buy the "unpcbs" that KI4GGX offers to minimize
that problem... very inexpensive and convenient, http://www.unpcbs.com/).

I plan to make the same stipulation to new builders of my kits, which
are now shipping in RoHS compliant form, when I next update the manuals.

73,
Larry N8LP
www.telepostinc.com



Dave Sergeant wrote:

> On 4 Sep 2006 at 4:02, Nick Waterman wrote:
>
>  
>> After trying lead-based and lead-free solder on some of the mini-kits, I
>> went leaded for my K2 in the end. I knew it was going to be a whole lot
>> easier especially if I ever had to rework anything... but this comment
>> from Eric really stunned me:
>>
>> Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
>>    
>>> We -strongly- recommend continuing to use regular lead based solder to
>>> build our kits. Kester 44, and other 63/37, 60/40 lead/tin mix solders
>>> are not going away in the US or in Eu and work much better for soldering
>>> both RoHS and non-RoHS tinned parts. Removal of non-lead solder is
>>> difficult at best for most builders, potentially damaging PC boards and
>>> components, and thats why our warranty prohibits its usage.
>>>      
>
> I was going to comment about this myself.
>
> Elecraft have gone to great effort to supply their new kits with
> components which are ROHS compliant andnow these new kits will come
> with a revised warranty which prohibits use of lead free solder in
> construction. Total contradiction.
>
> The fact remains that in Europe the law now requires such equipment
> to be assembled with lead free. There may be exemptions for kits, but
> in my reading of the regulations this is not that clear. USA and
> other assemblers who are currently not subject to ROHS regulations
> obviously can use leaded solder, but in Europe we should be given the
> option to use lead free if we wish to meet those requirements and
> work within the law. If rework with lead free is a problem then
> Elecraft must solve them rather than effectively wiping their hands
> of it.
>
> Perhaps Eric or Wayne will comment??
>
> 73 Dave G3YMC
>
> http://www.davesergeant.com
>
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>
>
>
>  

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[IK4YNG]

 Well, I was considering the matter and I would like to add my two cents.
Europe is becoming VERY conscious of the environmental problem, mostly
because the environment-related arguments, especially if presented in a
certain, emotional way are taking quick roots among the citizens, and that
pays good dividends at the election day.
As a matter of fact, I can point you the example of the total ban about
hunting bucks, deer and wild boars in effect on the hills around my
hometown. As a result, in a few years we got several people hospitalized
because of wild boars, car crashes due to bucks, and a total devastation of
the forest, since the bucks and wild boars have eaten all the gems and
offshoots for five solid years in a row. Now, to the desperation of the
"greens", the local government has decided to start an emergency hunting
effort, reducing the population by about 5000 wild boars and 1200 bucks in
our county alone.

What does it matters to the ROHS? Well, consider that in your car there are
probably 30 grams of lead due to the Pcboards in your car stereo, and maybe
20 kilos of lead due to the battery. And if you buy an hybrid car, then you
will have maybe 200 kilos of lead, cadmium, and what else you name in heavy
metals; but thanks to the ROHS you will have been spared the 30 grams in
your stereo....

Does that make sense?

Cheers,
Paolo



-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Larry Phipps
Inviato: lunedì 4 settembre 2006 15.27
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [Elecraft] ROHS COMPLIANT?


If you know Wayne, you know he is a very environmentally responsible guy
(Eric may be as well... we haven't talked about it). I can't imagine he
would make that recommendation if it weren't absolutely necessary. With kits
as complex as some of the Elecrafts are, there will inevitably be some
rework to remove misplaced parts, not to mention the possibility of blown
finals down the road, etc. Plus, there's the rework required to add options
(you could buy the "unpcbs" that KI4GGX offers to minimize that problem...
very inexpensive and convenient, http://www.unpcbs.com/).

I plan to make the same stipulation to new builders of my kits, which are
now shipping in RoHS compliant form, when I next update the manuals.

73,
Larry N8LP
www.telepostinc.com



Dave Sergeant wrote:

> On 4 Sep 2006 at 4:02, Nick Waterman wrote:
>
>  
>> After trying lead-based and lead-free solder on some of the
>> mini-kits, I went leaded for my K2 in the end. I knew it was going to
>> be a whole lot easier especially if I ever had to rework anything...
>> but this comment from Eric really stunned me:
>>
>> Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
>>    
>>> We -strongly- recommend continuing to use regular lead based solder
>>> to build our kits. Kester 44, and other 63/37, 60/40 lead/tin mix
>>> solders are not going away in the US or in Eu and work much better
>>> for soldering both RoHS and non-RoHS tinned parts. Removal of
>>> non-lead solder is difficult at best for most builders, potentially
>>> damaging PC boards and components, and thats why our warranty prohibits

its usage.

>>>      
>
> I was going to comment about this myself.
>
> Elecraft have gone to great effort to supply their new kits with
> components which are ROHS compliant andnow these new kits will come
> with a revised warranty which prohibits use of lead free solder in
> construction. Total contradiction.
>
> The fact remains that in Europe the law now requires such equipment to
> be assembled with lead free. There may be exemptions for kits, but in
> my reading of the regulations this is not that clear. USA and other
> assemblers who are currently not subject to ROHS regulations obviously
> can use leaded solder, but in Europe we should be given the option to
> use lead free if we wish to meet those requirements and work within
> the law. If rework with lead free is a problem then Elecraft must
> solve them rather than effectively wiping their hands of it.
>
> Perhaps Eric or Wayne will comment??
>
> 73 Dave G3YMC
>
> http://www.davesergeant.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
>
>  

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[N2EY]

In a message dated 9/4/06 2:49:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:


> Well, consider that in your car there are
> probably 30 grams of lead due to the Pcboards in your car stereo, and maybe
> 20 kilos of lead due to the battery. And if you buy an hybrid car, then you
> will have maybe 200 kilos of lead, cadmium, and what else you name in heavy
> metals; but thanks to the ROHS you will have been spared the 30 grams in
> your stereo....
>
> Does that make sense?
>

The difference is that the lead in the batteries is very likely to be
recycled, while the lead in the solder is not. There's so much lead in a battery, and
it's so concentrated, that it's easy and economical to recover. The opposite
is true for the solder.

The whole lead-solder-in-electronics thing is due, ironically, to the
relatively short life cycle of many electronic devices these days. I don't know about
Europe, but here in the USA many people consider a 5 year old computer to be
all but useless. I have found many completely working computers on the trash,
discarded simply because they were old. Latest find was a 400 MHz PII Dell
desktop, with 17" Dell monitor, 13 gb HD, 256 mb memory, Win2000, NIC, etc. Its
next stop was the dumpster. How much lead is in that thing, I do not know.

The ironic thing is that amateur radio equipment tends to have much longer
useful life spans. Many 20-30+ year old ham rigs are perfectly usable today,
particularly for non-critical applications. Even junked ham rigs are valuable for
their parts, to restore others.  

btw, we have a similar problem with white-tail deer here. Back on New Years
Day 2001 I bagged a doe on PA Route 202. Over $5000 damage to the Honda
Odyssey. Fortunately nobody but the deer was hurt. We're overrun with them but the
"Bambi factor" limits hunting.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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[Craig Rairdin]

> Back on New Years Day 2001 I bagged a doe on PA
> Route 202. Over $5000 damage to the Honda Odyssey.
> Fortunately nobody but the deer was hurt. We're
> overrun with them but the "Bambi factor" limits
> hunting.

That's how the deer control the overpopulation of Hondas.

Craig
NZ0R

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[Thom LaCosta]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006, paolo gramigna wrote:

> What does it matters to the ROHS? Well, consider that in your car there are
> probably 30 grams of lead due to the Pcboards in your car stereo, and maybe
> 20 kilos of lead due to the battery. And if you buy an hybrid car, then you
> will have maybe 200 kilos of lead, cadmium, and what else you name in heavy
> metals; but thanks to the ROHS you will have been spared the 30 grams in
> your stereo....
>
> Does that make sense?

No, but IMO, most governmental actions to make things "better" are like an
intestinal virus...there is much tumult, lots of output, minimal enjoyment
and the notion that you're taken one step forward and three steps back.

73,Thom-k3hrn
www.zerobeat.net Home of QRP Web Ring, Drakelist home page,Drake Web Ring,
QRP IRC channel, Drake IRC Channel, Elecraft Owners Database
www.tlchost.net/hosting/  ***  Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month
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[N2EY]

In a message dated 9/4/06 5:02:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:


> > Back on New Years Day 2001 I bagged a doe on PA
> > Route 202. Over $5000 damage to the Honda Odyssey.
> > Fortunately nobody but the deer was hurt. We're
> > overrun with them but the "Bambi factor" limits
> > hunting.
>
> That's how the deer control the overpopulation of Hondas

Well, the Odyssey survived but the deer didn't. I tried to get the bodyshop
to paint a little deer outline on the replaced fender but they just looked at
me kinda funny.

btw, we've had two Hondas and three VWs in the family - and all of them were
made in US factories.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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[John A. Ross [Ecraft]]

Hi all

I think the RoHS issue has been flogged as much as it can be.

I also think Elecrafts position is being confused a bit (as I understand it
anyway).

As far as I can see there is no claim that the kits are RoHS compliant.

This blossomed from the price increase thread where I believe Elecraft
mentioned they were buying RoHS compliant parts which are costing more but
they had to do it as they were mainstream available and leaded parts were
becoming harder to find.

There is no coc, no documentation and no audit trail claiming RoHS
compliance, so regardless of the dialogue here, due diligence has not been
observed at any level therfor the importer will be liable for non
conformance (the EU importer, NOT Elecraft) if applicable.

Not sure what Elecraft will do for PCB finish but I would guess rather than
switch to ENIG or similar the plating will still be Sn/Pb HASL as the
preferred solder alloy is still going to contain lead. So forget the parts.

The SSB adapter board I have here with DC 23/06 says RoHS on it but the
plating looks like HASL SnPb to me (not compliant) and if it is just a pure
tin finish (Pb Free) then it makes no sense for Elecraft to say Pb Free
solders void warranty as SAC305 alloys in Kester or Multicore will flow just
as easy when fluxed.
For rework some drill hole apertures will need to be enlarged and if the PCB
material is sub standard you risk lifting some lands due to the slightly
higher temperatures involved when applying the iron or desoldering tool.

As long as a single component inside the box is not compliant (remember that
also includes any plastics and plated metals) then forget about it. Assemble
with SnPb solder, forget about it. All roads to non compliance.

The only issue not fully investigated is if the kits actually have to
conform, as a finished product placed on the EU market commercially, yes
they do, regardless of country of origin. EU manufacturers are responsible
for the audit trail and compliance measures (usually wrapped up inside a
formal QC system) but anyone importing parts or products into the EU (parts)
to be placed on the market not only take responsibility for their own
actions, but those of the external EU manufacturer also.

Regulations vary country to country, they are not uniform across the EU as
their enforcement methods are different, but the term due diligence is used
quite a bit and to demonstrate its execution is not so easy, is the part
compliant?, yes, how do you know?, the suppliers says so, can the supplier
be trusted? Does the supplier have lot traceability back to the factory? How
was the materials tested? Which method was used...are there certified lab
results.. You would hate to see the flowchart / decision tree out of our QC
system at work.... We also had to drop any suppliers unable to meet the
audit trail requirements as well as scrap / remove from site all non
compliant inventory as contamination of complaint stock was also a risk.
That's risk assessment at its best.

It is really a big can of worms to open. It kind of takes the fun out of the
whole building deal I can tell you!

A few hours of working the front panel of the K2 and using the mic helps put
the fun back in it for a while :-)

John






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