RS232 vs USB yet again...
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It is very rare that one can find a modern PC desktop that comes with 1
or more RS-232 serial ports, just as it is becoming more and more difficult to find stock desktops with expansion slots on the MoBo. Laptops, at least newer than my ancient IBM Thinkpad, are even less likely to be equipped with RS-232 ports. This puts hams in an invidious position -- either use some old clunker of a desktop that came with RS-232 equipment, or find an expansion board that will plug into the MoBo of a moderately old tower, or use a USB-->RS-232 converter and go modern. Regarding the various items of Elecraft equipment, the choice between USB and RS-232 seems to have had very little to do with relative merits. It is not "which one is better?" but "which one is more suitable?" Apparently a substantial fraction of the brethren use superannuated desktops because this is a reasonable financial option. Another fraction of us use modern-day laptops, even though they promise half the performance at twice the price of a modern desktop. When the choice is between USB-->RS-232 conversion and RS-232-->USB conversion, the former is more readily available (the USB->RS-232 converters) than the latter. Again, this is just a marketing matter. Unfortunately, not all USB-->RS-232 converters are usable; some are "more equal than others" (apologies to George Orwell). A lot of the previous fuming and fussing over this topic has concerned specific chip sets and manufacturers of these converters. This is where the archived to-and-fro is of most utility. At first I was also a bit put off to discover that Elecraft relied on what I thought of as antiquated hardware, but in retrospect, I have gone over to the dark side and embraced the DB-9. I have used Firewire, USB, and RS-232, and find I much prefer the latter. I am fortunate to have a desktop with expansion slots, though in a bit of a quandary planning for the succession. John Ragle -- W1ZI -- Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: RS232 vs USB yet again...
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One of the still-plentiful, proven, and inexpensive Edgeport boxes (USB to
4 or 8 RS-232) would seem to obselence-proof your station. 73, geo - n4ua On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM, John Ragle <[hidden email]> wrote: > It is very rare that one can find a modern PC desktop that comes with 1 > or more RS-232 serial ports, just as it is becoming more and more > difficult to find stock desktops with expansion slots on the MoBo. > Laptops, at least newer than my ancient IBM Thinkpad, are even less > likely to be equipped with RS-232 ports. This puts hams in an invidious > position -- either use some old clunker of a desktop that came with > RS-232 equipment, or find an expansion board that will plug into the > MoBo of a moderately old tower, or use a USB-->RS-232 converter and go > modern. > > Regarding the various items of Elecraft equipment, the choice between > USB and RS-232 seems to have had very little to do with relative merits. > It is not "which one is better?" but "which one is more suitable?" > Apparently a substantial fraction of the brethren use superannuated > desktops because this is a reasonable financial option. Another fraction > of us use modern-day laptops, even though they promise half the > performance at twice the price of a modern desktop. When the choice is > between USB-->RS-232 conversion and RS-232-->USB conversion, the former > is more readily available (the USB->RS-232 converters) than the latter. > Again, this is just a marketing matter. > > Unfortunately, not all USB-->RS-232 converters are usable; some are > "more equal than others" (apologies to George Orwell). A lot of the > previous fuming and fussing over this topic has concerned specific chip > sets and manufacturers of these converters. This is where the archived > to-and-fro is of most utility. At first I was also a bit put off to > discover that Elecraft relied on what I thought of as antiquated > hardware, but in retrospect, I have gone over to the dark side and > embraced the DB-9. I have used Firewire, USB, and RS-232, and find I > much prefer the latter. I am fortunate to have a desktop with expansion > slots, though in a bit of a quandary planning for the succession. > > John Ragle -- W1ZI > > -- > > Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by John Ragle
Well said, John. Having designed automotive communications and datalogging equipment with RS-232, USB and EtherNet, I am amused by some of the things that I read in these USB vs. RS-232 threads. The days of Microsoft "ruining" USB on a monthly basis are long over, assuming they ever existed in the first place.
And, while the cost of implementing RS-232 on a peripheral is very low, the cost of implementing high-reliability RS-232 on a current PC is actually increasing. Quality PCIe RS-232 cards, not the $35.00 paper-weights, are not cheap by any standards. I understand that the guy making band-switches in his garage won't want to pay $4,000 for a USB Consortium membership for a vendor ID, but at this level...I just don't get it... Mike Alexander - N8MSA [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ragle" <[hidden email]> To: "elecraft" <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:48:46 AM Subject: [Elecraft] RS232 vs USB yet again... It is very rare that one can find a modern PC desktop that comes with 1 or more RS-232 serial ports, just as it is becoming more and more difficult to find stock desktops with expansion slots on the MoBo. Laptops, at least newer than my ancient IBM Thinkpad, are even less likely to be equipped with RS-232 ports. This puts hams in an invidious position -- either use some old clunker of a desktop that came with RS-232 equipment, or find an expansion board that will plug into the MoBo of a moderately old tower, or use a USB-->RS-232 converter and go modern. Regarding the various items of Elecraft equipment, the choice between USB and RS-232 seems to have had very little to do with relative merits. It is not "which one is better?" but "which one is more suitable?" Apparently a substantial fraction of the brethren use superannuated desktops because this is a reasonable financial option. Another fraction of us use modern-day laptops, even though they promise half the performance at twice the price of a modern desktop. When the choice is between USB-->RS-232 conversion and RS-232-->USB conversion, the former is more readily available (the USB->RS-232 converters) than the latter. Again, this is just a marketing matter. Unfortunately, not all USB-->RS-232 converters are usable; some are "more equal than others" (apologies to George Orwell). A lot of the previous fuming and fussing over this topic has concerned specific chip sets and manufacturers of these converters. This is where the archived to-and-fro is of most utility. At first I was also a bit put off to discover that Elecraft relied on what I thought of as antiquated hardware, but in retrospect, I have gone over to the dark side and embraced the DB-9. I have used Firewire, USB, and RS-232, and find I much prefer the latter. I am fortunate to have a desktop with expansion slots, though in a bit of a quandary planning for the succession. John Ragle -- W1ZI -- Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by George Dubovsky
George...
You're quite correct. I have one of these, currently in storage, waiting for the day when my DELL XPS 420 shuffles off the mortal coil. Fortunately, for $20 I could install a PCI board in the XPS 420 that gives me a pair of COM ports, which I also did. My Parthian comment about "planning for the succession" includes worries about the several other PCI and PCIx boards I have in active use, most particularly the frame grabber that allows me to 'window' my P3 operation. Thanks for bringing up the Edgeport boxes. They seem to be very well thought out. John Ragle -- W1ZI ===== On 5/12/2012 9:07 AM, George Dubovsky wrote: > One of the still-plentiful, proven, and inexpensive Edgeport boxes > (USB to 4 or 8 RS-232) would seem to obselence-proof your station. > > 73, > > geo - n4ua > > On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM, John Ragle <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > It is very rare that one can find a modern PC desktop that comes > with 1 > or more RS-232 serial ports, just as it is becoming more and more > difficult to find stock desktops with expansion slots on the MoBo. > Laptops, at least newer than my ancient IBM Thinkpad, are even less > likely to be equipped with RS-232 ports. This puts hams in an > invidious > position -- either use some old clunker of a desktop that came with > RS-232 equipment, or find an expansion board that will plug into the > MoBo of a moderately old tower, or use a USB-->RS-232 converter and go > modern. > > Regarding the various items of Elecraft equipment, the choice between > USB and RS-232 seems to have had very little to do with relative > merits. > It is not "which one is better?" but "which one is more suitable?" > Apparently a substantial fraction of the brethren use superannuated > desktops because this is a reasonable financial option. Another > fraction > of us use modern-day laptops, even though they promise half the > performance at twice the price of a modern desktop. When the choice is > between USB-->RS-232 conversion and RS-232-->USB conversion, the > former > is more readily available (the USB->RS-232 converters) than the > latter. > Again, this is just a marketing matter. > > Unfortunately, not all USB-->RS-232 converters are usable; some are > "more equal than others" (apologies to George Orwell). A lot of the > previous fuming and fussing over this topic has concerned specific > chip > sets and manufacturers of these converters. This is where the archived > to-and-fro is of most utility. At first I was also a bit put off to > discover that Elecraft relied on what I thought of as antiquated > hardware, but in retrospect, I have gone over to the dark side and > embraced the DB-9. I have used Firewire, USB, and RS-232, and find I > much prefer the latter. I am fortunate to have a desktop with > expansion > slots, though in a bit of a quandary planning for the succession. > > John Ragle -- W1ZI > > -- > > Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: RS232 vs USB yet again...
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[thread closed]
See the post I just made under a similar subject line for details. Eric List Moderator www.elecraft.com _..._ On May 12, 2012, at 7:56 AM, John Ragle <[hidden email]> wrote: > George... > > You're quite correct. I have one of these, currently in storage, waiting > for the day when my DELL XPS 420 shuffles off the mortal coil. > Fortunately, for $20 I could install a PCI board in the XPS 420 that > gives me a pair of COM ports, which I also did. My Parthian comment > about "planning for the succession" includes worries about the several > other PCI and PCIx boards I have in active use, most particularly the > frame grabber that allows me to 'window' my P3 operation. > > Thanks for bringing up the Edgeport boxes. They seem to be very well > thought out. > > John Ragle -- W1ZI > > ===== > > On 5/12/2012 9:07 AM, George Dubovsky wrote: >> One of the still-plentiful, proven, and inexpensive Edgeport boxes >> (USB to 4 or 8 RS-232) would seem to obselence-proof your station. >> >> 73, >> >> geo - n4ua >> >> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM, John Ragle <[hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: >> >> It is very rare that one can find a modern PC desktop that comes >> with 1 >> or more RS-232 serial ports, just as it is becoming more and more >> difficult to find stock desktops with expansion slots on the MoBo. >> Laptops, at least newer than my ancient IBM Thinkpad, are even less >> likely to be equipped with RS-232 ports. This puts hams in an >> invidious >> position -- either use some old clunker of a desktop that came with >> RS-232 equipment, or find an expansion board that will plug into the >> MoBo of a moderately old tower, or use a USB-->RS-232 converter and go >> modern. >> >> Regarding the various items of Elecraft equipment, the choice between >> USB and RS-232 seems to have had very little to do with relative >> merits. >> It is not "which one is better?" but "which one is more suitable?" >> Apparently a substantial fraction of the brethren use superannuated >> desktops because this is a reasonable financial option. Another >> fraction >> of us use modern-day laptops, even though they promise half the >> performance at twice the price of a modern desktop. When the choice is >> between USB-->RS-232 conversion and RS-232-->USB conversion, the >> former >> is more readily available (the USB->RS-232 converters) than the >> latter. >> Again, this is just a marketing matter. >> >> Unfortunately, not all USB-->RS-232 converters are usable; some are >> "more equal than others" (apologies to George Orwell). A lot of the >> previous fuming and fussing over this topic has concerned specific >> chip >> sets and manufacturers of these converters. This is where the archived >> to-and-fro is of most utility. At first I was also a bit put off to >> discover that Elecraft relied on what I thought of as antiquated >> hardware, but in retrospect, I have gone over to the dark side and >> embraced the DB-9. I have used Firewire, USB, and RS-232, and find I >> much prefer the latter. I am fortunate to have a desktop with >> expansion >> slots, though in a bit of a quandary planning for the succession. >> >> John Ragle -- W1ZI >> >> -- >> >> Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]> >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > > -- > Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by John Ragle
One more thought..... Most would be surprised to discover that there is a serial port on your motherboard on a lot of desktop computers. All you need do is purchase a cable with a DB-9 and a mounting for the back of the computer. I found the cable at TigerTronics for a couple of bux. 73, Rick W3BI > Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 10:56:18 -0400 > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RS232 vs USB yet again... > > George... > > You're quite correct. I have one of these, currently in storage, waiting > for the day when my DELL XPS 420 shuffles off the mortal coil. > Fortunately, for $20 I could install a PCI board in the XPS 420 that > gives me a pair of COM ports, which I also did. My Parthian comment > about "planning for the succession" includes worries about the several > other PCI and PCIx boards I have in active use, most particularly the > frame grabber that allows me to 'window' my P3 operation. > > Thanks for bringing up the Edgeport boxes. They seem to be very well > thought out. > > John Ragle -- W1ZI > > ===== > > On 5/12/2012 9:07 AM, George Dubovsky wrote: > > One of the still-plentiful, proven, and inexpensive Edgeport boxes > > (USB to 4 or 8 RS-232) would seem to obselence-proof your station. > > > > 73, > > > > geo - n4ua > > > > On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM, John Ragle <[hidden email] > > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > > > It is very rare that one can find a modern PC desktop that comes > > with 1 > > or more RS-232 serial ports, just as it is becoming more and more > > difficult to find stock desktops with expansion slots on the MoBo. > > Laptops, at least newer than my ancient IBM Thinkpad, are even less > > likely to be equipped with RS-232 ports. This puts hams in an > > invidious > > position -- either use some old clunker of a desktop that came with > > RS-232 equipment, or find an expansion board that will plug into the > > MoBo of a moderately old tower, or use a USB-->RS-232 converter and go > > modern. > > > > Regarding the various items of Elecraft equipment, the choice between > > USB and RS-232 seems to have had very little to do with relative > > merits. > > It is not "which one is better?" but "which one is more suitable?" > > Apparently a substantial fraction of the brethren use superannuated > > desktops because this is a reasonable financial option. Another > > fraction > > of us use modern-day laptops, even though they promise half the > > performance at twice the price of a modern desktop. When the choice is > > between USB-->RS-232 conversion and RS-232-->USB conversion, the > > former > > is more readily available (the USB->RS-232 converters) than the > > latter. > > Again, this is just a marketing matter. > > > > Unfortunately, not all USB-->RS-232 converters are usable; some are > > "more equal than others" (apologies to George Orwell). A lot of the > > previous fuming and fussing over this topic has concerned specific > > chip > > sets and manufacturers of these converters. This is where the archived > > to-and-fro is of most utility. At first I was also a bit put off to > > discover that Elecraft relied on what I thought of as antiquated > > hardware, but in retrospect, I have gone over to the dark side and > > embraced the DB-9. I have used Firewire, USB, and RS-232, and find I > > much prefer the latter. I am fortunate to have a desktop with > > expansion > > slots, though in a bit of a quandary planning for the succession. > > > > John Ragle -- W1ZI > > > > -- > > > > Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > <mailto:[hidden email]> > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > > -- > Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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